divers and fish

[John Williams]

While I havent been diving, I will take your point that it is likely that
the reef aquarium trade is making a significant impact on the reefs. 
However, from the aquarist that I have met it is clear that they try their
very best to provide a high quality habitat for the fish.  Those who do
usually acquire 4 or 5 fish and keep them for many years.  On the other
hand, it is likely that many people get into the hobby and do not know
much about the requirements of keeping a fish.  They may go through a
large number of fish, probably view them as expendible like some feel
about goldfish.  Also, a number of pet stores seem to keep these fish
because they may feel like they need to cover all their bases.  I am sure
a good number of petstores (chain stores in particular) account for a
large percentage of the fish demise. 

While aquaculturing efforts have been only successful for handful of fish,
these successful cases only came from careful efforts and alot of time. It
is probably possible now to stop collecting clown fish altogther.  It may
be worth noting that there is alot that has been and will be learnt from
these aquariums.  You may also be suprised by the education level of many
of those keeping reef aquariums. Finally, I would also point out that the
reef aquarist have had tremendous success at captively propogating a large
number of corals.  This success may be very important in the future.  One
case that comes to mind is how the california vineyards rescued the french
vineyard when their grapes came undersiege of a fungal blight.

Anyway, the upshot of all of this is a proposal seeking a comprise. 
People who wish to maintain reef aqauriums need to pass a test
demonstrating some level of understanding before being allowed to keep
these fish.  Shops selling fish would have to pass the same test or
something more rigorous, should be periodically check to ensure high
quality water conditions/habitat in general, and would require anyone
wanting to purchase a fish to show some id.  The health department already
checks petstores anyway - outfitting them with a few test kits for
NH3/Ca/pH etc wouldnt be difficult.  As much as I hate to add any more
goverment, the proposal would make people aware of what they are getting
into, it would discourage chain stores for overstocking and creating
lethal habitats for these fish.  It would likely drive up the price of the
fish and therefore encourage more captive breeding efforts. In all, this
could reduce the collecting load on the reefs. 

Now, I imagine that I would be electronically whipped which is one reason
I generally just listen.  Regardless, I hope this proposal is taken for
what its worth - just an idea to try to help both camps.

cheers, john



On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Prasanna Weerakkody wrote:

> Bill and others
> 
> I still think that you have no clue what goes on down here. Unfortunately
> the poor fish collectors down here have no access to computers or internet
> (many would be barely literate at that matter)and they will never know of
> what their paymasters (i.e. the aquarist)do or would want them to do either. 
> 
> The locals always used the reef fish for food; and the traditional methods
> and levels of harvest were sustainable and non destructive. The collection
> of ornamentals is not traditional and was began and is sustained by the
> demand by the aquarist. So I do blame the aquarist for the fate of the reef
> at the hands of the local collectors. I don't think you can come clean on
> this; The aquarist remain the driving  force of the collector, and in a way
> your attitude that the aquarist and the fish collector are disconnected
> illustrates the point - that the aquarist is not aware or care about their
> effects on far away unseen reefs.  (Out of sight - out of mind???)
> 
> If the aquarists do care they should be willing to voluntarily adjust the
> demand of the trade to match the changing situation on the reefs. and
> pressurize the 'middle man' the Fish exporter to adapt responsible trade
> regulations and in turn impose conservation minded controls (techniques,
> awareness and practices) among their fish collector groups in the field.
> This is the rock on which we are forced to bash our heads to bring some
> relief to the reef fauna. Against money driven politics it is difficult to
> bring in regulation from bottom up. so may be the aquarists could look at a
> top down approach to this problem "if they care".  
> 
> I would be perhaps the happiest if the aquarists are successful at breeding
> and growing fish and inverts on their tanks(no more extraction and perhaps a
> few re-introductions...). But if that is not the sink hole to which our fish
> go I have no clue where they do go.
> 
> Forgive me for my stubbornness, It's just that I have to be afraid for every
> little colorful fish recruiting on the reefs where I work; knowing that
> their days on the reef are very very short. And we have to (though with much
> regret)scare the fish and teach them to be wary of divers in order to retain
> at least a few so that they would grow up on the reef and hopefully breed. 
> 
> Perhaps I hope for too much.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Prasanna 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 11:09 PM 31-10-01 -0800, you wrote:
> >Prasanna,
> >    Seems like you are blaming the aquarist for the habits of the local 
> >collectors and as far as I know there are very few people that collect 
> >for their own tank.  In my experience in Fiji, the largest coral 
> >exporter in the world I believe, most collection was done by local 
> >Fijians.  They then transfer the livestock to the various companies 
> >exporting it.   During my stay there I also became aware of the various 
> >destructive habits of Fijians upon their own reefs.  I heard of local 
> >Fijians eating sea turtles even though it was illegal since January, an 
> >article was published in the Fiji Times about how two turtles from a 
> >research station in Hawaii were caught and 1 was eaten.  I also 
> >witnessed a sea turtle in a fish collection system in Suva.  I inquired 
> >the manager on why it was there and she replied it would be returned to 
> >the ocean soon.  I also witnessed various large breeding size fish 
> >including specimens that would be considered exported by the aquarium 
> >trade eaten for food.  Am I saying they cannot eat these fish? No, but 
> >eating of breeding fish will and does have an impact on the overall fish 
> >population and variety of the reef.
> >
> >     While most reef keepers are not marine biologists by title many 
> >have become lay marine biologist through the love of their hobby.  While 
> >I might defend the hobby through words I would like you to take a look 
> >at various sites that have been created because of the hobby.
> >
> >Online magazine created for hobby: 
> >http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/archive/default.asp
> >1 of the captive breeders of tropical saltwater fish: 
> >http://www.orafarm.com/
> >Largest hobbyist site on the Internet: http://www.reefs.org
> >
> >While you state
> >
> >"I don't think the reef keepers have a clue what is going on down here, or
> >care how much they are contributing to the destruction of the reefs to build
> >"pretty little artificial reefs' that they can keep at home."
> >
> >I implore you inform yourself of the current situation of reef keeping in
> the United States. My apologies if I sound hard or defensive, but the
> aquarium industry is no longer a sink hole for fish and inverts, many of the
> animals that are now imported are now being captive grown and bred. I invite
> you to join the reef keeping community as an outside observer and if you
> still believe we don't have a clue after 6 months of active participation
> then so be it.
> >Bill Crockett
> >www.reefs.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >Prasanna Weerakkody wrote:
> >
> >>I am not so sure if the aquarium enthusiasts are anymore enlightened lot
> >>than the average diver as ursula defined. (may be there is one or two) Down
> >>here in Sri Lanka one of my prime activities is re-settling hundreds of
> >>pieces of coral broken by fish collectors (to extract the fish from their
> >>hiding places)supplying the aquarium industry.  Post to the 1998 bleaching
> >>event the reefs down here have suffered tremendously with less than 50% of
> >>the reefs remaining and struggling to survive. there is significant loss in
> >>fish abundance and diversity. But the aquarium fish industry has not been so
> >>"understanding or aware" and continue pumping reef fauna out at the same
> >>rate. they still comb and squeeze the reefs for fish(and inverts) down to
> >>the last one left. If there is even a slight reduction to the numbers
> >>exported it is more due to fish collectors quitting the job as it is no
> >>longer viable; than because of the sensitive Reef keeper hobbyists
> >>voluntarily putting a brake in their demand of live exotics to give a chance
> >>for the reefs to recover.
> >>
> >>I don't think the reef keepers have a clue what is going on down here, or
> >>care how much they are contributing to the destruction of the reefs to build
> >>"pretty little artificial reefs' that they can keep at home.  May be the
> >>recreational divers who visit the reefs could check out the reefs and make
> >>the aquarists aware.
> >>
> >>The aquarists should know that every colourful fish that livens their living
> >>room makes the reefs less and less colourful as the selective predation by
> >>the trade is leaving the reefs full of only the 'bland' fishes. think of
> >>what such high intensity selective extraction does to the reef ecology. 
> >>
> >>My apologies if I sound a little hard; but it is hard to sympathize with
> >>aquarists when you are struggling with the long distance effects of their
> >>hobbies on a daily basis. 
> >>
> >>Prasanna
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 07:44 AM 31-10-01 -1000, you wrote:
> >>
> >>>At 10:32 AM 10/31/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Without recreational divers the academic community has NO hope of 
> >>>>spreading the word about the plight of the world's reefs.
> >>>>
> >>>I believe the marine reef keeping hobby has a very large % of "reef aware" 
> >>>individuals, perhaps more so than the diving community .. since these 
> >>>individuals have a great deal of experience with what is necessary for 
> >>>healthy corals to survive and grow and an appreciation of their delicacy. 
> >>>This is also a very useful group when it comes to spreading awareness of 
> >>>corals reefs and their inhabitants to the general public. I know several 
> >>>hobbyists who regularly have groups of elementary students visit their 
> >>>homes to view their reef aquaria and learn about coral reefs in general.
> >>>
> >>>Aloha!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>J. Charles Delbeek
> >>>Aquarium Biologist
> >>>Waikiki Aquarium
> >>>2777 Kalakaua Ave.
> >>>Honolulu, HI, USA 96815
> >>>808-923-9741
> >>>808-923-1771 FAX
> >>>
> >>>~~~~~~~
> >>>For directions on subscribing and unsubscribing to coral-list or the
> >>>digests, please visit www.coral.noaa.gov, click on Popular on the
> >>>menu bar, then click on Coral-List Listserver.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>~~~~~~~
> >>For directions on subscribing and unsubscribing to coral-list or the
> >>digests, please visit www.coral.noaa.gov, click on Popular on the
> >>menu bar, then click on Coral-List Listserver.
> >>
> >>
> >
> ><html>
> ><head>
> ></head>
> ><body>
> >Prasanna,<br>
> >&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Seems like you are blaming the aquarist for the habits
> of the local collectors
> >and as far as I know there are very few people that collect for their own
> >tank. &nbsp;In my experience in Fiji, the largest coral exporter in the world
> >I believe, most collection was done by local Fijians. &nbsp;They then transfer
> >the livestock to the various companies exporting it. &nbsp; During my stay
> there
> >I also became aware of the various destructive habits of Fijians upon their
> >own reefs. &nbsp;I heard of local Fijians eating sea turtles even though it was
> >illegal since January, an article was published in the Fiji Times about how
> >two turtles from a research station in Hawaii were caught and 1 was eaten.
> >&nbsp;I also witnessed a sea turtle in a fish collection system in Suva.
> &nbsp;I inquired
> >the manager on why it was there and she replied it would be returned to the
> >ocean soon. &nbsp;I also witnessed various large breeding size fish including
> >specimens that would be considered exported by the aquarium trade eaten for
> >food. &nbsp;Am I saying they cannot eat these fish? No, but eating of breeding
> >fish will and does have an impact on the overall fish population and variety
> >of the reef. <br>
> ><br>
> >&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;While most reef keepers are not marine biologists
> by title many have
> >become lay marine biologist through the love of their hobby. &nbsp;While I
> might
> >defend the hobby through words I would like you to take a look at various
> >sites that have been created because of the hobby.<br>
> ><br>
> >Online magazine created for hobby: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
> href="http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/archive/default.asp">http://ww
> w.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/archive/default.asp</a><br>
> >1 of the captive breeders of tropical saltwater fish: <a
> class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
> href="http://www.orafarm.com/">http://www.orafarm.com/</a><br>
> ><b>Largest hobbyist site on the Internet: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
> href="http://www.reefs.org">http://www.reefs.org</a></b><b><br>
> ></b><br>
> >While you state
> ><pre wrap="">"I don't think the reef keepers have a clue what is going on
> down here, or<br>care how much they are contributing to the destruction of
> the reefs to build<br>"pretty little artificial reefs' that they can keep at
> home."<br><br>I&nbsp;implore you inform yourself of the current situation
> of&nbsp;reef keeping in the United States. My apologies if I sound hard or
> defensive, but the aquarium industry is no longer a sink hole for fish and
> inverts, many of the&nbsp;animals that are now&nbsp;imported are now being
> captive grown and bred. I invite you to join the reef keeping community as
> an outside observer and if you still believe we don't have a clue after 6
> months of active participation then so be it.<br>Bill Crockett<br><a
> class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
> href="http://www.reefs.org">www.reefs.org</a><br></pre>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >Prasanna Weerakkody wrote:<br>
> ><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200111010310.fA13ADu09350 at laknet.slt.lk">
> >  <pre wrap="">I am not so sure if the aquarium enthusiasts are anymore
> enlightened lot<br>than the average diver as ursula defined. (may be there
> is one or two) Down<br>here in Sri Lanka one of my prime activities is
> re-settling hundreds of<br>pieces of coral broken by fish collectors (to
> extract the fish from their<br>hiding places)supplying the aquarium
> industry.  Post to the 1998 bleaching<br>event the reefs down here have
> suffered tremendously with less than 50% of<br>the reefs remaining and
> struggling to survive. there is significant loss in<br>fish abundance and
> diversity. But the aquarium fish industry has not been so<br>"understanding
> or aware" and continue pumping reef fauna out at the same<br>rate. they
> still comb and squeeze the reefs for fish(and inverts) down to<br>the last
> one left. If there is even a slight reduction to the numbers<br>exported it
> is more due to fish collectors quitting the job as it is no<br>longer
> viable; than because of the sensitive Reef ke
> >eper hobbyists<br>voluntarily putting a brake in their demand of live
> exotics to give a chance<br>for the reefs to recover.<br><br>I don't think
> the reef keepers have a clue what is going on down here, or<br>care how much
> they are contributing to the destruction of the reefs to build<br>"pretty
> little artificial reefs' that they can keep at home.  May be
> the<br>recreational divers who visit the reefs could check out the reefs and
> make<br>the aquarists aware.<br><br>The aquarists should know that every
> colourful fish that livens their living<br>room makes the reefs less and
> less colourful as the selective predation by<br>the trade is leaving the
> reefs full of only the 'bland' fishes. think of<br>what such high intensity
> selective extraction does to the reef ecology. <br><br>My apologies if I
> sound a little hard; but it is hard to sympathize with<br>aquarists when you
> are struggling with the long distance effects of their<br>hobbies on a daily
> basis. <br><br>Prasanna<br><br><br
> >><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>At 07:44 AM 31-10-01 -1000, you
> wrote:<br></pre>
> >  <blockquote type="cite">
> >    <pre wrap="">At 10:32 AM 10/31/2001 +0000, you wrote:<br></pre>
> >    <blockquote type="cite">
> >      <pre wrap="">Without recreational divers the academic community has
> NO hope of <br>spreading the word about the plight of the world's
> reefs.<br></pre>
> >      </blockquote>
> >      <pre wrap="">I believe the marine reef keeping hobby has a very large
> % of "reef aware" <br>individuals, perhaps more so than the diving community
> .. since these <br>individuals have a great deal of experience with what is
> necessary for <br>healthy corals to survive and grow and an appreciation of
> their delicacy. <br>This is also a very useful group when it comes to
> spreading awareness of <br>corals reefs and their inhabitants to the general
> public. I know several <br>hobbyists who regularly have groups of elementary
> students visit their <br>homes to view their reef aquaria and learn about
> coral reefs in general.<br><br>Aloha!<br><br><br><br><br>J. Charles
> Delbeek<br>Aquarium Biologist<br>Waikiki Aquarium<br>2777 Kalakaua
> Ave.<br>Honolulu, HI, USA 96815<br>808-923-9741<br>808-923-1771
> FAX<br><br>~~~~~~~<br>For directions on subscribing and unsubscribing to
> coral-list or the<br>digests, please visit <a
> class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.coral.noaa.gov">www
> >.coral.noaa.gov</a>, click on Popular on the<br>menu bar, then click on
> Coral-List Listserver.<br><br><br><br></pre>
> >      </blockquote>
> >      <pre wrap=""><!----><br>~~~~~~~<br>For directions on subscribing and
> unsubscribing to coral-list or the<br>digests, please visit <a
> class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
> href="http://www.coral.noaa.gov">www.coral.noaa.gov</a>, click on Popular on
> the<br>menu bar, then click on Coral-List Listserver.<br><br><br></pre>
> >      </blockquote>
> >      <br>
> >      </body>
> >      </html>
> >
> Prasanna Weerakkody
> Nature Conservation Group
> No.9, Balapokuna place,
> Colombo 6.
> Sri Lanka
> 
> E-mail: firefish at sltnet.lk
> Ph:     941-856041
> 
> ~~~~~~~
> For directions on subscribing and unsubscribing to coral-list or the
> digests, please visit www.coral.noaa.gov, click on Popular on the
> menu bar, then click on Coral-List Listserver.
> 
> 

~~~~~~~
For directions on subscribing and unsubscribing to coral-list or the
digests, please visit www.coral.noaa.gov, click on Popular on the
menu bar, then click on Coral-List Listserver.