From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Tue Mar 7 04:08:03 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 04:08:03 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] test of broken coral-list Message-ID: <1709fc171a21.171a211709fc@noaa.gov> test to see if coral-list is working again... From Louis.Florit at noaa.gov Mon Mar 6 19:27:27 2006 From: Louis.Florit at noaa.gov (Louis Florit) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:27:27 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] coral-list mail test... Message-ID: <440CD36F.8040406@noaa.gov> Please ignore this message. -- Louis Florit, Research Associate University of Miami/CIMAS NOAA/Atlantic Oceanographic Meteorological Laboratory 4301 Rickenbacker Causeway Miami, FL 33149 Phone: (305) 361-4445 From Louis.Florit at noaa.gov Mon Mar 6 17:48:00 2006 From: Louis.Florit at noaa.gov (Louis Florit) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:48:00 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Test Post Message-ID: <440CBC20.5050906@noaa.gov> Attempting to post a message to the coral list. Please disregard. -- Louis Florit, Research Associate University of Miami/CIMAS NOAA/Atlantic Oceanographic Meteorological Laboratory 4301 Rickenbacker Causeway Miami, FL 33149 Phone: (305) 361-4445 From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Tue Mar 7 16:10:24 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:10:24 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] coral-list not dead Message-ID: <174e3516ed5c.16ed5c174e35@noaa.gov> The rumors of coral-list's demise have been greatly exaggerated. However, we're having some problems subsequent to an "upgrade" of the mailman software, and we appear to have lost all messages between around March 1 and March 6. If you posted something during that time, we may ask you that you re-post tem. Hopefully, after this message you'll see a bunch more starting to come through in the queue. Cheers, Jim From John.Broderick at newcastle.ac.uk Mon Mar 6 11:53:29 2006 From: John.Broderick at newcastle.ac.uk (John Broderick) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:53:29 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] MSc in Biodiversity, Conservation and Ecotourism Message-ID: <9366880017F98D4EA02E4412380B820202D318D2@moonraker.campus.ncl.ac.uk> Hi all, Although not entirely marine focussed this course may be of interest to many of you or final stage undergraduates you teach. Kind regards John >>>> www.ncl.ac.uk/biodiversity The MSc in Biodiversity, Conservation and Ecotourism is offered by University of Newcastle jointly with Naresuan University in Thailand. Students will be based full time on campus in Thailand. Tuition will be both face to face and by distance learning (the Newcastle contribution). The course has been developed through the EC Asia Link programme and includes expert contributions from Lund University in Sweden and Colorado State University, USA. Taught over 2 years, the course is a chance for students to be part of an international learning environment with teachers and classmates from around the world. Thailand is a renowned biodiversity 'hotspot' with rich cultural heritage and a booming tourism industry, the combination often in conflict. Masters students based there have the chance of fascinating insights and great potential for research projects with high quality fieldwork. If this sounds exciting and you would like further information, please see the dedicated website at http://www.ncl.ac.uk/biodiversity Or E-mail: biodiversity at ncl.ac.uk ........................................................................ .................... Institute for Research on the Environment and Sustainability ; Devonshire Building University of Newcastle ; Newcastle Upon Tyne ; NE1 7RU From Victor.Gomelyuk at nt.gov.au Wed Mar 1 00:26:28 2006 From: Victor.Gomelyuk at nt.gov.au (Victor Gomelyuk) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:56:28 +0930 Subject: [Coral-List] Disease Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I would appreciate your help in identification of this coral disease: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/BlackBanddisease.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/Blackbanddiseaseclose.jpg S12010.893 E1360 40.447 Arafura sea, Gove/Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia Is it really a black band disease - or something else? Thank you in advance. By the way, I'd like to repeat my question: can anyone explain me the difference between "coral reef" and "coral community" in quantitative terms? Victor Gomelyuk Dr Victor Gomelyuk Marine Scientist Parks & Wildlife Commission of the Northern Territory Darwin, NT, Australia 0812 tel +61(0)889209281 fax 61(0)889209222 From tdlewis at hawaii.edu Wed Mar 1 14:53:17 2006 From: tdlewis at hawaii.edu (Teresa D Lewis) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:53:17 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] HIMB workshop announcement Message-ID: Please distribute this workshop announcement to the coral list. Mahalo, Teresa Lewis ____________________________________________ 2006 Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology --- Edwin W. Pauley Program --- Coral Molecular Biology Techniques Workshop For graduate students and coral science professionals _____________________________________________ Dates: August 14-25, 2006 Instructors: HIMB faculty (Brian Bowen, Ruth Gates, Steve Karl, Teresa Lewis, Michael Rapp?, Rob Toonen) Fee: US $2,500 Topics: ? Nucleic acid isolation techniques, electrophoresis ? PCR and primer design, QPCR ? Sequencing ? RFLP, DGGE for zooxanthellae clade identification ? Population genetics ? Bioinformatics, computer analyses ? Cellular disaggregation techniques ? Protein (immunoblotting) techniques Application deadline: March 31, 2006 Notification of acceptance: April 15, 2006 Deposit (50% of fee) due: August 1, 2006 Applicants must provide a letter of interest (2 page maximum with 12 point font), CV, and a letter of recommendation from your graduate advisor or supervisor. Please note: This is an introductory level techniques course. Workshop certificate will be provided upon successful completion of the course. Participants must cover their own travel expenses to Honolulu separate from the workshop fee. Travel arrangements to Coconut Island will be provided. Workshop fee includes housing and meals plus all classroom materials and lab supplies. For more information contact Dr. Teresa Lewis at tdlewis at hawaii.edu. From piggot at uiuc.edu Fri Mar 3 20:24:01 2006 From: piggot at uiuc.edu (piggot at uiuc.edu) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:24:01 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Tank Experiments Message-ID: To all, I am looking for any information that would help in running tank experiments on hard/stony corals. The variables would include temperature and chemical exudates. What are common equilibration/acclimation times before a coral is physiologically ready to be subjected to challenges? The corals will be in test tanks for close to a month. Thank you Alan Piggot From Bprecht at pbsj.com Wed Mar 1 21:33:08 2006 From: Bprecht at pbsj.com (Precht, Bill) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:33:08 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Upcoming Reef Research Conference - second (final) notice Message-ID: <8511092CB6C11C4BB2632F61A82C620C04129D09@MIAMBX.pbsj.com> The Society for Sedimentary Geology (SEPM) Announces the following Coral Reef Meeting. Course #19 (SEPM) QUATERNARY REEFS AND PLATFORMS: BRIDGING THE GAP BETWEEN THE ANCIENT AND MODERN - Thursday-Friday, April 13-14 - Houston, Texas, 2006 An SEPM 2-Day Research Conference (Short Course) held directly after the AAPG/SEPM Annual Meeting in Houston. Registration is through the normal AAPG meeting process. You can attend the conference/course without registering for the meeting. Registration is Open Society for Sedimentary Geology (SEPM): Course 19 Quaternary Reefs and Platforms: Bridging the Gap between the Ancient and the Modern NOTE: This course has a limited number of sponsorships available to students on a first-come, first-serve basis. Please contact Kim Van Delft at 1 888 945 2274, ext. 617 (U.S. and Canada only) or 1 918 560 2617. * Date: Thursday-Friday, April 13-14 * Time: 8:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. * Organizers: William F. Precht (PBS&J, Miami, FL); Paul M. (Mitch) Harris (Chevron, San Ramon, CA); * Fee: $340 (includes course notes and refreshments) * Limit: 50 persons * Content: 16 PDH, 1.6 CEU Who should attend? This two-day short course (designed in the traditional SEPM Research Conference format) is for participants from academia and industry with interest to examine the broad implications of studying Quaternary reefs. Course description: The first-day session will highlight the advances of studying Quaternary reefs from the perspective of their geologic record (the Quaternary as a key to the past), while the second day will highlight the predictive nature of these systems (the Quaternary as a key to the future). A SEPM Special Publication will be based on the conference. The general course format will be: Thursday, April 13 Plenary Lecture - Modern reefs: templates for understanding ancient reef systems and reservoirs Mitch Harris* and Brigitte Vlaswinkel* Diagenesis of Quaternary carbonate rocks and sediments John Humphrey Coral reef and carbonate platform response to rapid fluctuations in sea level during Pleistocene Marine Isotope Stage 5e William Precht*, Richard Aronson and Conrad Neumann Keynote Luncheon Speaker - Subsurface investigation of Quaternary reefs -- geological insights Ian Macintyre Uppermost Pleistocene deglacial establishment of relict barrier reefs on Last Glacial Maximum shelf edge siliciclastic coastal deposits (Gulf of Papua): Clues to explain the origin of modern barrier reefs Andre Droxler*, Beaufort, Mallarino, Francis, Opdyke, Bentley, Dickens, and Peterson Coral growth and environment versus reef accretion and facies: impacts of time, taphonomy and changing sea level Dennis Hubbard Development, decline, and transition of a Holocene fringing coral reef complex, Dominican Republic: Implications for understanding reef response to environmental change Al Curran* and Lisa Greer Factors controlling Holocene reef development in Hawaii Eric Grossman Friday, April 14 Plenary Lecture - Causality of drowned and incipiently-drowned reefs of the southern shelf lagoon, Belize, C.A. William Precht*, Rich Aronson and Ian Macintyre Coral reef evolution on rapidly subsiding margins: a unique record of drowning and backstepping Jody Webster Reefs below the photic zone: The mudmound-lithoherm story Conrad Neumann* and Charles Messing Controls on Holocene-to-Recent reef development in the Florida Keys Barbara Lidz* and Eugene Shinn Corals and sclerosponges as geochemical recorders of past climate change Andrea Grottoli Changing environmental gradients and coral reef development along the northwestern margin of the Pacific J.E.N. "Charlie" Veron Global change and the future of coral reefs Peter Glynn Possible consequences of increasing atmospheric CO2 on coral reef ecosystems Chris Langdon --------------------- For additional Information contact: William F. Precht bprecht at pbsj.com From milviapin at yahoo.com Thu Mar 2 21:13:53 2006 From: milviapin at yahoo.com (Silvia Pinca) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:13:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Fwd: Coral Reef Conservation Webcast Message-ID: <20060303021353.46903.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Dear listers I have been asked to forward this message about a webcast lecture. Thank you brian.zavala at mail.utexas.edu wrote: Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:16:58 -0600 (CST) To: milviapin at yahoo.com Subject: Coral Reef Conservation Webcast From: brian.zavala at mail.utexas.edu Dr. Silvia Pinca, I write to let you know about an excellent public lecture on the state of the oceans that you can watch by webcast on the Internet, entitled "Brave New Ocean." This webcast presentation given by Professor Jeremy Jackson, William E. and Mary B. Ritter Professor and Director of the Geosciences Research Division at Scripps Institution of Oceanography will be Friday, March 3, 2006 at 7pm CST. Dr. Jeremy Jackson, one of the most prominent marine ecologists in the world, will discuss the state of the world's oceans based on his research on coral reefs, marine fisheries, and coastal and marine ecosystems. More than just an academic researcher, Dr. Jackson applies his skills as a communicator with his scientific knowledge to inspire action. View the FREE web broadcast of the lecture live Friday, March 3, 2006 at 7 pm Central Standard Time. During the live webcast, you can submit questions to Dr. Jackson and he will answer as many as he can for the live and webcast audiences. If it?s a good question, we will mail you a CD of the lecture. If possible, can you distribute or post a link to this webcast on your website, newsletter, or listserv as well as pass this notice on to any colleagues of yours that may be interested. The link to our Lecture Series website, where the details of the lecture and the webcast can be found, is: http://www.esi.utexas.edu/outreach/ols/lectures/Jackson/index.php Please let me know if you will consider posting this information. Thanks for your time, Brian Zavala Environmental Science Institute The University of Texas at Austin brian.zavala at mail.utexas.edu 512.471.5847 Silvia Pinca, Ph.D. NRAS - Marshall Islands Nature Resources Assessment Surveys Research and Education for Conservation spinca at nras-conservation.org www.nras-conservation.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. From Bprecht at pbsj.com Fri Mar 3 15:37:21 2006 From: Bprecht at pbsj.com (Precht, Bill) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:37:21 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] FW: Remnancy vs Resilence Message-ID: <8511092CB6C11C4BB2632F61A82C620C0425A368@MIAMBX.pbsj.com> To All on the Coral-List: During the last few weeks we have read a host of different opinions about what to do about Florida's reefs and also what to do about reefs in general. Recent scientific papers and newspaper articles have admonished the U.S. Government for not doing enough to protect the valuable reef resources of the Florida reef tract. While we are all in agreement that Florida's coral reefs are threatened, I argue that understanding the main causes of their decline (and their recovery) are of paramount importance in devising science-based management and restoration strategies for these systems. The generally accepted model of coral reef decline is that the shift from a more desirable, coral-dominated state to a less desirable, macroalgae-dominated state was primarily a consequence of long-term overfishing and/or coastal eutrophication, making them more susceptible to other recent disturbances. This model, mostly based on weak inference and perpetuated in the literature by a series of affirmative ad hoc revisions, has retarded ecological discovery and confounded the direction of ecosystem management. For Florida's coral reefs the implied lack of management is based on the hypothesis that the main causes of reef degradation are historical in nature and the woes that beset this system are entirely local, man-induced, and reversible. While it is easy to take this view, evidence linking overfishing and coastal eutrophication to coral reef degradation in Florida remains elusive (specifically the decline of corals and concommitant increases in macroalgae). Unfortunately, politicians, NGO's, managers and the public are receptive to such arguments because runoff from agricultural lands in the Everglades, sewage treatment (or lack thereof) in the Florida Keys, or overharvesting of finfish and shellfish are things that make intuitive sense and also have strong emotional appeal. In the case of Florida, the catastrophic decline in coral cover (particularly for acroporid corals) started in the late 1970s and was empirically observed to be driven proximally by hypothermic temperature stress and disease outbreaks, especially white-band disease. More recently, long-lived mounding corals such as the Montastraea annularis species complex have also been killed by ENSO-enhanced coral bleaching and a host of other coral diseases (1983 - present). Paleoecological and ecological data indicate that this coral mortality is largely decoupled from changing levels of herbivory or water quality, and that reef dynamics on a regional level are at best weakly linked to present and past levels of nutrients or fishing pressure. Improving water quality and conserving stocks of reef fish should be and clearly are high priorities of management, but the positive, localized impact on corals will be minimal in the face of regional- to global-scale stressors such as disease epizootics and increasing sea-surface temperature related to global warming. Management steps are already in progress in the Florida Keys to clean up nearshore waters as well as system-wide water quality and habitat restoration efforts under the Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan. When completed, engineering solutions to improve the quality of nearshore waters will only benefit the offshore reefs. Unfortunately, no form of locally-based stewardship, scientific management or scientific policy including total protection could have prevented or changed the overall trajectory of coral loss or ameliorated the major disturbances responsible for reef decline in Florida. In fact, what we have seen in Florida has been mirrored throughout much of the Caribbean. It has become clear, that regional and global-scale stressors now far outweigh all local issues, however, this should not be taken to mean that local issues are not real or unimportant. So what to do? Without coming to grips with the big-picture, global-scale, politically challenging stuff - reefs will be managed to death at the local-scale. Or should I say, reefs will die in front of the very managers and scientists dedicated to protecting them. Is this a grim view of the future or a snapshot of the last few decades? In either case, we need to start thinking and actly globally if reefs as we know them (or knew them) are to have a fighting chance. Bill Precht Miami, FL From clarionreef at aol.com Mon Mar 6 16:10:53 2006 From: clarionreef at aol.com (clarionreef at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:10:53 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] The long view is for the Undead: reefs ARE in trouble today In-Reply-To: <67.55e12d55.3134dc07@aol.com> References: <67.55e12d55.3134dc07@aol.com> Message-ID: <8C80F799675BE97-ECC-D91A@FWM-M11.sysops.aol.com> There is a common ground to which we can focus; Gandhi said...."How can I succeed in a thousand villages? This is the argument that pride gives us. Start with the wisdom that if you fix yourself up in a single village and suceed, the rest will follow." Inherent in his wisdom is a mandate...a requirement to deal with fisherfolk ie. poor folks near the reefs as important people and not just integers in a top-down formula to be 'played and gamed' in some Western world equation of manipulation. You cannot succeed in village for long as a phoney, self serving group...you have to plant yourself, commit and followthru. The idea is to generate support thru respect and create a multiplier effect with something so worthwhile that other villages will want to steal it. Converting fisherman to using nets for example instead of cyanide is an old story....but one yet to be concluded as it was usurped by the top-down primma donnas in the NGO game. Fisherman became bit players in a large financial drama that so many 'reef people' followed [ MAC] instead of centerpieces in the fight to save coral reef systems....one zone at a time. This in turn can create a multiplier effect and before long a critical mass of local support can cascade and displace the use of poisons to collect fish. This victory...in turn provides us entry as w/ the Trojan horse syndrome and before you know it, reef surveying, eco-tourism, MPA staffing, environmental education and sustainable fishing start to gain traction. Returning to old, discarded wisdom can work...and show the way and light candles in many places. Steve Steve Robinson -----Original Message----- From: JKoven at aol.com To: rgrigg at soest.hawaii.edu; lesk at bu.edu; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:49:43 EST Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The long view is for the Undead: reefs ARE in trouble today The people who live in these underpopulated areas are still trying to earn a living...often by fishing their own reefs and selling to those who have depleted their own fisheries and willing to pay the price. Yes, over-population is at the base of many world problems but it is a sticky issue, at once cultural, ethnic and religious. Not exactly one to be solved by reef scientists. Perhaps women's education in general and in reproductive rights are the answers? Women want better lives for their children, after they've been fed, saved from curable infectious diseases, and educated....and who is to determine what that better life is? Is it what they perceive as the lives that other children in the world have, including yours? Joan Koven Astrolabe, Inc. _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From milviapin at yahoo.com Sun Mar 5 19:58:01 2006 From: milviapin at yahoo.com (Silvia Pinca) Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:58:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] vehicle emissions, lifestyle changes and global warming In-Reply-To: <009901c63b43$26543be0$63c8c814@TUPPER> Message-ID: <20060306005801.37781.qmail@web50309.mail.yahoo.com> Mark, I think the real trick is, as you put it: "how do we change the mindset of an entire nation ( but dont' think U.S. is the ONLY one! suvs are getting popular in Europe as well) from one of spending all their disposable income on unnecessary luxuries to one of moderation and conservation?" Is this the job of scientists or of educators? Can scientists become educators of the layman since they are the ones who feels and SEE how HOT the problem really is? I think that once we pass the ball to educators (after having done all our measurements and experiements and written the reports) the passion and urgency gets lost or consumed and the message looses its power and efficiency. I think that scientists could get more involved in finding the most effective ways to change people mind set from the selfish, commodity-oriented, careless being one to a global (or at least generational) concerned one. Can we - or some of us - research on how to deliver the important message, how to spread it, how to sensibilize other human beings with the same urgency and dedication as the one spent in finding the chemical reactions in coral bleaching? cheers silvia Mark Tupper wrote: Hi listers, I think James, Jeff and Alina are right on the money when they talk about vehicle emissions and today's "bigger is better" SUV mindset. I doubt that the public has any realization of the degree to which vehicle emissions contribute to greenhouse gases. A quote from the California Cars Initiative: "In California, transportation accounts for over 40% of greenhouse gas emissions. Nationally the number is around 33%. Globally it's 20% and rising fast, especially as car-starved China, India and Russia add to their fleets." So, if we can agree that global warming and climate change are adversely affecting coral reefs, then vehicle emissions are one of the major culprits. But have governments or the auto industry made any attempt to educate the public on this issue? If so, I must have missed it... This is one of the most challenging problems our environment faces, given the long history of our deep-rooted "car culture" lifestyle in North America. It's amazing to me that with sky-high gas prices unlikely to change while there is continuing war in the Middle East, people still want to buy the biggest, most expensive SUV they can. For example, in the last decade, Hummer went from a cottage industry aimed at producing exclusive (and enormous) vehicles for celebrities, to a major automaker producing over 100,000 SUVs per year. And as Jeff said, how many of those are ever taken off-road? And while DaimlerChrysler has been touting their advances in PHEV technology (plug-in hybrid electric vehicles that can get 100+ mpg), they were busy reviving the 425 horsepower Hemi engine and stuffing it into 4-door family sedans, and then developing a 500 horsepower V-10 for their SUVs and pickup trucks. Do soccer moms really need to go 0-60 in under 5 seconds and cruise the highway at over 170 mph, which just 10 years ago could only be done with a $200,000 exotic sports car? No. It would be illegal anyway. Has DaimlerChrysler sold any mass-produced PHEVs yet? No. Why not? Because hybrids are for nerdy enviro-geeks like us. Nobody else would pay the premium price charged for them when they could get a "real" car for less. In North America's car culture, big and powerful is sexy; small and efficient is lame. Sorry if this post seems too much about vehicles and not enough about coral reefs, but I'm trying to address one of the root causes of coral reef decline. We might say that greenhouse gases and resulting thermal stress are a root cause of decline but they aren't the ultimate cause. They are a symptom generated by human activities - a symptom that happens to trigger its own set of secondary symptoms, including coral bleaching and disease. In addressing the ultimate cause, the question is, how do we change the mindset of an entire nation from one of spending all their disposable income on unnecessary luxuries to one of moderation and conservation? Cheers, Mark Dr. Mark H Tupper, Senior Scientist Palau International Coral Reef Center PO Box 7086, Koror, Palau 96940 tel (680) 488-6950; fax (680) 488-6951 and Adjunct Research Associate University of Guam Marine Laboratory UOG Station, Mangilao, Guam 96923, USA tel (671) 735-2375; fax (671) 734-6767 _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list Silvia Pinca, Ph.D. NRAS - Marshall Islands Nature Resources Assessment Surveys Research and Education for Conservation spinca at nras-conservation.org www.nras-conservation.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From dvaughan at mote.org Mon Mar 6 16:24:51 2006 From: dvaughan at mote.org (David Vaughan) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:24:51 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Restoration in Mexico after Whilma Message-ID: <440CA8A3.1060301@mote.org> Dear Coral-listers, Is anyone aware of any coral reef restoration efforts or projects in Mexico after Hurricane Whilma? Thanks,, for your assistance, D ave Vaughan, Director, Center for Coral Reef Research Mote Tropical Research Laboratory Summerland Key, Florida From dfenner at blueskynet.as Tue Mar 7 03:23:33 2006 From: dfenner at blueskynet.as (Douglas Fenner) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:23:33 -1100 Subject: [Coral-List] resilience is real, we can make a difference Message-ID: <00c201c641c0$6ce79380$577f46ca@DOUGLASFENNER> I have been agreeing with most all the thoughts people have been expressing. The comment of Martin Moe that we need herbivores on our reefs seems particularly apt. He says "think Diadema." I say, "think herbivorous fish, too!" Cozumel, Mexico, had the same dieoff of Diadema the rest of the Caribbean had. And yet it had no algae bloom. Why? Its reef track was all protected, and has abundant fish, including herbivorous fish. Jamaica had little macroalgae when it had no herbivorous fish left, but still had Diadema. Either one can do the job, both is no doubt better. Loose them both and kiss your reef goodby with the next major disturbance. I recently had the reality of reef resiliance demonstrated to me. I visited SW Madagascar. Most of the reefs where I was had about 95-99% (my guess) of their corals killed by mass bleaching in 1998 and 2000 I was told. In 2005 when I saw them, they were algae beds with no signs of recovery. Contrast that with some reefs on the Great Barrier Reef that 5 years after destruction by Crown of Thorns (COTS) or hurricane, had very high coral cover. In Madagascar, a village on the beach lives almost entirely by fishing, the water is dotted with outrigger canoes every day fishing. The village has pit toilets, and there are also resorts adding to nutrients. Few fish on the reefs, probably lots of nutrients. Enter a major disturbance, results in phase shift to algae and no recovery. Contrast that to American Samoa where I live and work. The reefs here are dominated by coralline algae, with corals second. The two biggest fish groups by biomass are surgeons and parrotfish, both of which are plentiful. Macroalgae is nearly non-existant. COTS ate nearly all the corals in the late 70's, there have been several hurricanes (nasty ones in 1990, 1991), mass bleachings in 1994, 2002, 2003. Chuck Birkeland has been monitoring here for over 20 years, and he says that the disturbances kill coral, but it recovers, time after time. Resilience to major disturbances is real, and if you have lots of herbivores you have a much better chance of reef recovery. I know there are many complicating details, but maintaining a healthy reef with lots of herbivorous fish, low sediment, low nutrients, can make the difference between reef recovery and a reef staying dead. Controlling these things isn't easy, but it can make a big difference. -Doug From g.holmes at uq.edu.au Tue Mar 7 05:40:27 2006 From: g.holmes at uq.edu.au (Glen Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:27 +1000 Subject: [Coral-List] 3D images of corals Message-ID: <001301c641d3$8cdd5c20$0d4612ac@GRHNB1> Dear Listers, I would like to put out a call for anyone who is in possession of 3D images (CT-scan, laser scan, etc) of corals and is willing to share them (of course acknowledgement of data sources would be made). I'm doing some work on relating projected area of corals to the actual 3D surface areas and the more images I can work with the better. Thankyou in advance. Glen ____________________________________________ Glen Holmes PhD Candidate Centre for Marine Studies University of Queensland St Lucia Qld 4072 Australia Tel: +61-7-33651475 Fax: +61-7-33654755 CRICOS provider number: 00025B This e-mail/message is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. Material contained herein may be protected by Intellectual Property Rights and should be dealt with accordingly. If you have received this e-mail/message in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage mechanism. Any representations or opinions expressed in this email (or attachments) are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the University of Queensland, or the Centre for Marine Studies. Neither the University of Queensland nor any of its agents accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of the University or one of its agents. Please note that neither the University of Queensland nor any of its agents accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this e-mail or its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the email and attachments (if any). From eweil at caribe.net Tue Mar 7 08:48:58 2006 From: eweil at caribe.net (Ernesto Weil) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:48:58 -0400 Subject: [Coral-List] Sticky issue In-Reply-To: <67.55e12d55.3134dc07@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060307134905.1AC0317AA0@coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Yes it is an overwhelming sticky issue, but the problem is that nobody, specially governments (votes) and religious groups (power of the masses - contributions), wants to even talk about it. On the other hand, it seems that the people who needs the most education are those living in the developing countries, who most of the time drive/push the undeveloped countries to destroy their natural resources to satisfy their ever-increasing appetite for unnecessary things. A good example, at least in our field, is the exploitation/destruction of reefs for the aquarium trade. Major consumers, yes you guessed right, the USA and Europe, at least in some statistics I saw last year. How many of those fish, anemones, shrimps, seahorses, soft- and hard corals do you think survive one year in the aquariums at home or hotels?? How many die during the whole process since capture to the retail stores?? The same is happening for rainforest and other terrestrial and fresh water system creatures as well, just visit the nearest pet-store. Developed countries usually protect their natural resources well, but pressure the underdeveloped countries to destroy theirs to satisfy the local markets for these. Are there solutions to these problems, of course there are, are we willing to implement them, well, here is where we are limited because we do not implement policies, we just provide scientific-based recommendation to those responsible to legislate, and most of you know what happen with these recommendations. Saludos, -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of JKoven at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:50 PM To: rgrigg at soest.hawaii.edu; lesk at bu.edu; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The long view is for the Undead: reefs ARE introuble today The people who live in these underpopulated areas are still trying to earn a living...often by fishing their own reefs and selling to those who have depleted their own fisheries and willing to pay the price. Yes, over-population is at the base of many world problems but it is a sticky issue, at once cultural, ethnic and religious.? Not exactly one to be solved by reef scientists.? Perhaps women's education in general and in reproductive rights are the answers?? Women want better lives for their children, after they've been fed, saved from curable infectious diseases, and educated....and who is to determine what that better life is?? Is it what they perceive as the lives that other children in the world have, including yours?? Joan Koven Astrolabe, Inc. _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From eborneman at uh.edu Tue Mar 7 10:07:46 2006 From: eborneman at uh.edu (Eric Borneman) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:07:46 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience, Remnancy, Sustainability - Semantics? In-Reply-To: <0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC94525281B@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> References: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB46404AD29DE@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu> <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C9091CB028@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> <0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC94525281B@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear list: I have read each post in this thread with delight, even if it reinforces my own sadness and experiences, having first seen a Caribbean reef in Jamaica in 1974 and watching the deterioration over the years, even now spreading to all coral reef regions outside the Caribbean (thanks to those who have brought up the rich- or once rich - reefs in the Pacific and elsewhere). I have little to add to this thread since virtually all poignant and pertinent and eloquent issues have been made to date. It gives me comfort to see what I feel are pragmatic and theoretical constructs that seem, at least outside my immediate circle of colleagues and friends (birds of a feather), to attest that those outside the circle (what seems to be the majority of my neighborhood, city, state, country, world) are missing what is as plain as the reflection in their mirrors. Now, allow me to resort to a metapopulation idea that may give some optimism to those concerned about coral reefs that very well may stave off impacts in the short term and allow for resiliency and recovery of coral and non-coral habitats. At least, this is what frequently happens with dense populations - and, in this case, its name is H5N1. If not H5N1, its kin. We are a species, no more and no less subject to pruning by natural causes that do not require mandatory sterilization or genocide. While I wish harm to no living thing, sometimes a little culling might be a good thing. Eric Borneman Dept. of Biology and Biochemistry University of Houston Science and Research Bldg. II 4800 Calhoun Rd. Houston, TX 77204-5001 eborneman at uh.edu On Feb 27, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Andrew Williams wrote: > Dear All, > > I started out reading this topic with interest, but it is now > becoming irritation, because it seems to be a great deal of > definitions, discussions of semantics and ego flattering > statements. Do I intend to be insulting? No, I attempt to point out > that if this discussion is affecting me in this way (an alleged > scientist), imagine what it does for members of the public... > > Now watch me reel off a massive list of definitions! *laughs* > > Global warming - fossil fuels are the key issue, yet they are owned > by massive MNCs whose sole interest is capital generation. The > technology to replace these energy sources already exists, is owned > by MNCs and DODs around the world, either hidden from public use > for protectionism of markets or national security (i.e. > protectionism of national markets!). The USA is 'run' by an oil > baron, a man who was re-elected by over 50% (ish) of the nation > (well those who voted). > > What is the solution when the public are disinterested in (global) > politics, and the politicians are interested in re-election and > capital accumulation? > > Education is fundamentally important to changing public, and thus > political, agendas, yet who controls school curricula? > > What happens when the media has become mankind's source of (dis) > information? > > What happens when scientists cannot even decide within themselves > the 'correct' course of action? > > I'll tell you what I believe happens, things get worse, further > ingrained, more polarised and more self-centred. There are two real > problems in this world, apathy and greed. If these two variables > can be addressed, mankind has a chance at not destroying itself and > the planet in the process. > > I've seen/heard various people say things like, "thanks for that > depressing outlook" to which my response is, do we live on the same > planet? I would dearly love to be optimistic about global affairs, > but I think it's deluded. I don't believe in the Hollywood happy > ending, in fact if I did, I wouldn't be studying natural resource > management. I will happily admit that there are success stories > about the place and I will come to that point 'shortly'. We are > creeping in the right direction, but we could be walking, if not > running (hand in hand into the sunset...sorry!). > > We all talk about globalisation, yet where are the international > laws, where is the international institution that represents > mankind's interest and not national interests? None of us alone is > going to change global problems, it is going to take a concerted > global effort, it is not going to be easy, it is going to require > considerable pain in the process, because current consumption of > global resources are not sustainable (yup sorry, there's that buzz > word again). There are no 'silver bullets', if we haven't learned > that yet... > > Admittedly, all this globalisation 'stuff' is in it's infancy, it > is barely crawling, but someone (plural) MUST teach it how to walk > and it cannot be driven solely by the free market ideology. > > 'Over' population - Carrying capacities do not take into account > advances in technology, so improvements in agricultural practices > increases production (agreed, simply pouring chemicals into the > ground is not sustainable, but there are alternatives). There's > plenty of food being produced today, it's not a production issue > it's a distribution issue. I only have to wander around shops like > 'Pound Land' to realise there are massive amounts of resources > being poured into utterly useless products, yet people still buy > them. My computers enable me to communicate globally, increase my > productivity, my lights enable me to work in the dark, but, for > example, these ridiculous plastic (oil derivative) desk ornaments - > where's the utility in that? Don't even get me started on SUVs! > > To say China has the right idea about birth control, is rather > simplistic, just look at how many female babies are abandoned or > aborted, I feel that women being marched en-mass into sterilisation > programs (India) against their will is totally indefensible. Human > rights on one hand, control systems on the other - where is the > middle ground? I personally would like to see a licensing system, > whereby people have to prove they are capable of being good parents > and are economically able to raise their kids - but of course that > only works in developed nations, I could not possibly argue for > that to be applied in developing nations. I'm sure that would cause > a massive outcry, it being a fundamental human right to have > children, but this example of the women having her 12th baby - what > about the rights of people who don't want to live in an overcrowded > world? Since when do the rights of the individual outweigh the > rights of the many (sorry, rather star trek I know!)? We are boxing ou > rselves into a corner with all this political correctness. > > Timescales - someone mentioned that on a long enough time line, > reefs will be gone. Well in several billion years the sun will > expand to the point Earth will be uninhabitable - does this mean we > should all just give up and damn the world to extinction early? I > absolutely take the point that ecosystems are processes, (perhaps > they should be renamed as ecoprocesses and not systems (I am so > joking!)) and that on a long enough time line everything will > change, but these changes are for the most part geologically slow - > slow enough for evolution to keep pace. Mankind's affects on the > planet are accelerating beyond the pace of evolution, plus I would > prefer to live in a world where the atmosphere is breathable, the > water drinkable, the soils cultivable... > > Spatial scales - I vaguely remember mentioning I would come to a > point and this is it - start small, lead by example and the people > will follow! We can't take on global issues, the institutions and > laws simply are not there yet, it's currently far too voluntary and > un-enforceable. Apart from anything else, ecosystems are site > specific - there are reefs on the east coast of Australia that are > growing in highly turbid conditions, whereas in other places, > turbidity is fatal. I don't think it is possible to come up with a > 10 point plan to global success, because by doing so you are going > to have to cut down a 1000 points to 10, what if the 990 > disregarded points aggregate to greater importance than the 10 you > chose? Global affairs are for the politicians, scientists should be > there in an advisory capacity but when I say scientists I mean all > of them, not just e.g. Marine Biologists - see my next point. > > Integration - So, one school of thought cries out for public > awareness and consumer driven market forces, one cries out for more > stringent laws and regulations, another for strict conservationism, > another for... where is the integration, where's the facilitator, > the chair person co-ordinating all these schools? If you are going > to try and solve issues, then you must consider (in alphabetical > order) economics, environment, politics and social anthropology - > not on a sectoral basis but as an integrated whole. You cannot just > form MPAs where ever biodiversity is greatest, because you will > more than likely marginalise the people living off that resource. > Making the poor poorer just causes further environmental > degradation as they are forced to exploit any (free/common) natural > resource they can. If you exclude people from the picture, you have > an issue of non-compliance and thus a cost in enforcement. I > entered into my first degree of the opinion that the environment > should be pr > otected no matter the human cost, I have since completely amended > that outlook since it's myopic at best and downright inhumane at > worst. > > Participation - To overcome issues of non-compliance, > marginalisation and often to increase knowledge of local systems, > people must be allowed to participate at ALL levels of project and > policy formulation/implementation - that does not mean > consultation, that means active participation. > > Process - Sustainable Development (sorry but I don't see it as an > oxymoron - I do see it's false implementation as oxy-moronic) is a > process, not a system, thus projects and policies should be re- > evaluated as often as humanly possible, because making changes > causes changes. > > Good governance - We are only just starting to see models of good > governance, not top-down, not bottom-up, but multi-tier (local, > regional, national, international) well organised/managed, with an > ability to pass information/resources up and down the system with > speed and efficiency. Good governance starts with individuals and > ends with international agreements, with every single organisation/ > institution in-between. It needs to be based on equity, equality > and shared interest, not ego, power and greed. Now that's a serious > challenge because a majority of the current systems of governance > are corrupt and unwieldy, favouring the rich and powerful, self- > protecting and exacerbating poverty. > > Developed nations cannot dictate how developing nations can and > cannot develop when, as someone has already pointed out, a large > proportion of greenhouse gases derive from our activities. Good > governance must be about setting a good example, not just enforcing > it. > > I think I am probably boring everyone by now, but I have one more > thing to say. All of the above I have been taught, ok some of it I > consciously/sub-consciously knew already, but there are more people > behind me, coming up through the 'new' schools of thought. One day, > these people will be the top scientists of the day, the > politicians, the decision makers - when that day comes, I think > (hope) we will see some real changes being made. I can only hope > that some of the above will help people break free of the chains of > sectoralism and start seeing things from a holistic perspective, > you cannot save reefs by simply speaking about how they are dying > at n.nnn% a year. > > Of all the traits of human nature, survival is one of the greatest, > otherwise we'd already be gone. The glass can be half empty and/or > half full, it all depends on how you view it, but why does no one > ever consider topping it back up to brim? Stop observing, start doing! > > A passionate Msc Student > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From solutions at cozm.co.uk Tue Mar 7 11:33:47 2006 From: solutions at cozm.co.uk (Duncan MacRae) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:33:47 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Conservation work on Nusa Lembongan / Penida Island group (2nd attempt) References: <8C80A03C77FEB1B-AD4-1654@FWM-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002101c64204$e8ee46b0$34114254@DRM> Hi folks, A quick one to ask if anyone knows of any conservation work that has been carried out on the Nusa Lembongan / Nusa Penida Island group near Bali in Indonesa. Best, Duncan R. MacRae Director Coastal Zone Management (UK) Integrated Conservation Solutions Blythe Cottage 22 Rosemundy St. Agnes Cornwall TR5 0UD Tel: ++ (0)1872 552 219 Mobile: ++(0)7958 230 076 E-mail: solutions at cozm.co.uk Website: www.cozm.co.uk This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version From lucyjanegallagher at yahoo.co.uk Thu Mar 2 14:31:44 2006 From: lucyjanegallagher at yahoo.co.uk (Lucy Gallagher) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:31:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Coral-List] Volunteers Needed in Mexico Message-ID: <20060302193144.92308.qmail@web26009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> A Call for Volunteers at Centro Ecol?gico Akumal, Mexico Located on the Mexican Caribbean coast, Centro Ecol?gico Akumal (or CEA) was founded in 1993, to ?monitor the impact of development on the regional ecosystems and culture, to report findings and their significance to the public through education, and through education influence public policy?. In response to environmental degradation and the demands of the community, CEA is launching a new Marine and Coastal Protection Program that can essentially be divided into two main components: a scientific monitoring project and an environmental education project. CEA is currently recruiting volunteers to join our team and help with both components of the program. For more information, please go to CEA?s website www.ceakumal.org or contact Lucy Gallagher at marine at ceakumal.org for a volunteer pack. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail From ricksanders at comcast.net Tue Mar 7 00:03:26 2006 From: ricksanders at comcast.net (Rick Sanders) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:03:26 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Question about a macro algae species seen on reefs in southern Cat Island, Bahamas References: <551b8dba0602211348y1e58fb60y20da80776e676217@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005801c641a4$785b5010$650da8c0@manta> Raphael, That photo you sent me looks like it! I have gotten so many responses and I haven't had a chance to write back to thank any of you for sending your information on the macro algae. The photo you sent looks like a good example of the what I saw on the reefs in Cat Island. Quite a few other also suggested it was Microdictyon. Who is doing work on this algae and its impacts in the Bahamas? It seems strange that this algae is popping up in such remote locations...it has been suggested that currents may be carrying nutrients into these areas from other locations where the anthropogenic inputs of nutrients are greater. What is the impact that Microdictyon is having on these reefs? It seems to be overgrowing many healthy corals. It was also mentioned in other responses that I have gotten that this algae is seasonal. Does this mean that it's impact is only temporary and the impacted corals have a chance to recover from the infestation? Thanks again for the great photo and information, Rick Rick Sanders President Deep Blue Solutions 610-892-5272 ricksanders at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raphael Williams" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Question about a macro algae species seen onreefs in southern Cat Island, Bahamas > Hi Rick this is probably a species of Microdictyon, I've attached a photo > from Sweetings Key, Bahamas. We found it there very common. I usually > use > the Littler's book "Caribbean Reef Plants" to id the common algae, it is a > very useful guide, written by Diane Littler and Mark Littler, 2000, > published by OffShore Graphics Inc. I hope this helps. Cheers,Raphael > > Raphael Ritson-Williams > Laboratory Technician Marine Chemical Ecology > Smithsonian Marine Station at Fort Pierce > 701 Seaway Dr, Fort Pierce, Fl, 34949 > (772) 465-6630 x146 > williams at sms.si.edu > >>>> "Rick Sanders" 02/21 1:34 PM >>> > Dear Listers, > > I have spent many hours pouring over photos of macro algae trying to find > an > image of the algae that I saw overgrowing corals on many of the reefs I > dived off the southern end of Cat Island in the Bahamas. I have been > unable > to find an image of anything close to what I observed there in July 2003. > > Description: It appears to be a filamentous type algae on a greenish > brown > color that appears to be made up of netting (the filaments cross each > other > in a more or less orthogonal orientation) the netting appears to shaped > into > more or less spherical or roundish mats. The filaments are aprox 2-3 mm > in > width. The mats are easy to dislodge from their substrate and feel as if > to > crinkle when crushed under pressure with ones hand. They are overgrowing > many types of corals in shallow and deeper reefs. > > I am concerned about the impact that this algae might have on the reefs > there and want to get more information on what is happening there and the > first logical step is to identify it if possible. If anyone has seen what > I > am describing and has some photos of this type of algae please send me a > copy or link. > > Thanks very much in advance, > > Best regards, > > Rick > > > Rick Sanders > Deep Blue Solutions > Media, PA > 610-892-5272 > ricksanders at comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Tue Mar 7 16:23:11 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] "resiliency" [from Mike Risk] Message-ID: <170123170635.170635170123@noaa.gov> [This message is from Mike Risk, who skipped town after trying to send it last week... :) ] From: Michael Risk To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: "resiliency" Date: March 4, 2006 Hello Esther, colleagues. This debate has so far proven to be informative, energising, and depressing. I am moved to enter the discussion by your post, and by some patterns I think I see in the exchanges. >From the First World postings, I see debate. >From the Third World postings, I see despair. (Although it could be said that, if you are looking at the present problem and NOT feeling some degree of despair, then you don?t understand the problem.) First of all, I need to emphasize that no one from Canada is entitled to speak from any sort of holier-than-thou bully pulpit. Our energy consumption per capita is higher than the US, we have destroyed our East Coast fisheries, and now are starting on the boreal forest. My remarks are entitled to be helpful rather than accusatory. Some passing comments on previous posts. It is interesting to follow the etymology of the term ?sustainable development.? No scientist could ever have coined a phrase so internally self-contradictory, and it is generally used by persons who have not the slightest idea what it means (in Canada, they usually have degrees in political science, and know nothing of value). If memory of an old CBC special serves, the term was made up about 30 years ago, in the early stages of birth of the environmental movement, by groups that wished to have a figleaf behind which to hide their plans for development. So, just as one should never trust someone who says ?trust me?, one should be wary of someone who talks of ?sustainable development?. Gene Shinn points out that the geologic record is full of extinction events, reef comings and goings, sea level changes. He is correct as far he goes, but I respectfully beg to differ from my old (in the case of long-standing!) drinking buddy on emphasis. Most reef extinction events in the record are marked by a series of bedding planes, sometimes just one. The stratigraphic resolution does not allow us to conclude much about the rapidity of the extinctions, and the causes are equally obscure-although Evan Edinger makes an excellent case for the Caribbean-wide Oligocene-Miocene reef extinction event, the one that set the scene for the modern Caribbean reef fauna, being caused by nutrient increase. We usually conclude/assume that reef extinctions have not been instantaneous, but have taken thousands of years. Two critical aspects set the present apart from anything we have previously seen in the fossil record: -the rate. To the best of our stratigraphic resolution, I would maintain that we are losing reefs faster then we lost the dinosaurs. One century will have seen them reduced to a few outposts. -the cause. Severe damage was done to reefs in the 20th century (and continues to-day) by humans. The geologic record can teach us a lot about modern reefs, but we should not fall into the trap of saying well, this has all happened before-because it hasn?t. There has been some hopeful speculation that corals will somehow ?adapt? to climate change-this flies in the face of all we know from the geologic record, and much of what we know about evolution and adaptation. During climate change, corals die like flies. Walter Adey has shown that, after a rapid sea level increase, such as during the Holocene, it takes about 1,000 years for reefs to re-establish on the new shelf. (Takes that long for the transgressive seas to rework the substrate, make it suitably clean for corals.) That was back when the oceans were clean and full of fish. This time, when sea level runs up to its +10m datum, the oceans will have to rework hotels, Hummers and humans. It?ll take longer than 1,000 years. On the other, more optimistic side, Tom Tomascik has shown that, in the clear, clean waters of the Banda Sea, a fresh submarine lava flow can be covered with 100% coral cover in less than 10 years. There are some more take-home lessons from the fossil record. Stresses to which reefs have adapted for thousands or millions of years cannot be invoked to explain the present decline. In evolutionary terms, reefs all over the world know far more about hurricanes and cyclones than do humans. Reefs in Florida have had the entire Holocene to get used to upwelling-driven nutrient pumping in across the shelf. Nothing new here either. Rick Grigg is correct in his early posting-there are Pacific reefs that remain in great shape. ?The solution to pollution is dilution.? Where human pressure has impacted them, Pacific reefs are often in no better shape than the Caribbean. He is also right on the money in his second posting, re population growth. Those of you old enough to remember ?Pogo? may recall that great strip where Albert Alligator says ?I have met the enemy, and he is us.? There is great concern now amongst reef scientists about the impacts of climate change: coral bleaching, ocean acidification, sea level rise. We do not know when the blow will strike: best guesses would say some time in the coming century, but the wild card is research that shows rapid climate change can occur in only a few years. Al Strong-I read the plenary to which you refer, in which the author states that climate change is ?not proven.? Puts me in mind: every year, some sportswriter in Toronto predicts that the Maple Leafs will win the Stanley Cup that year. (To the uninitiated: this refers to a team which plays ice hockey, a sport Canadian women do very well.) The writer gains instant notoriety for making such a ridiculous prediction, and then fades back into the obscurity from which he came. The CO2 increase is fact, and the reality of climate change is now accepted by virtually every climate scientist on the planet except Dick Cheney. Let?s be blunt: when climate change is truly upon us, the human race will have bigger fish to fry than to worry about coral reefs: where to put 150 million Bangladeshis, how to explain to guests that the bottom four floors of hotels in Miami Beach are accessible only by scuba...The problem of reef survival will take back seat to the problem of human survival. I will draw upon my experience in SE Asia for many of my examples-here is one. Much of Indonesia runs on three rice crops per year-four, on Bali. Indonesia has more coral reefs than any nation on the planet, but if one climate blip causes them to miss one rice crop, you will see reef conservation efforts vanish. So I would suggest that speculation on the effects of climate change on reefs is a valid intellectual pursuit, but of little or no value in conserving what we have. We lost more than half the reefs in the Caribbean before anyone could even SPELL bleaching. Several postings have eloquently and poignantly talked about our waste of resources. I note the truth of this, but have to point out that we are preaching to the choir, on coral-list. We all share the same concerns, else we would not be on this list. We need to reach the outside world. Yes, it?s true, we in North America consume too much. We can hardly deny the Chinese and the Indians and the Africans the right to the same lifestyles we enjoy, so the picture is bleak. There would seem to be only two answers: -educate the kids; -emancipate the women. We will only do so through education, in the First World, and that plus emancipation in the Third. There are some encouraging signs in Florida. The Southeast Florida Coral Reef Initiative has focussed on land-based sources of pollution, and has some preliminary programs planned or under way. But I still think we can look to the Third World for some lessons, both good and grim. Six years ago, in Paradise Lost (Mar. Freshwater Res. 50: 831-837), I wrote that a Third World country would be the first to get a handle on its reef problems, because ?It is amongst developing nations that the problem is felt most keenly, and it is there that scientific turf wars and career- and reputation-building take a back seat to feeding people.? (p. 836). Esther works in SE Sulawesi, at the heart of marine biodiversity. That region is also the ancestral home of the Bugis, a tribe of sea-gypsies renowned for their fishing and piracy (they are the origin of the ?Boogey-Man.?) Several centuries ago, there was no problem being an illiterate fisher-plenty of fish in the sea, no scientific papers to read. Now the Bugis find themselves driven into an economic trap by their own migratory ways. They are the skilled bombers of that part of the world, buying the fertilizer to make the bombs from the same middleman, ?tauke?, who buys the fish. The picture is not totally dark. If the rubble left by a bomb is not continually agitated, it will cement down in a few months. The waters where the bombers ply their trade are as remote as they can afford, given the price of diesel for the boats, hence usually relatively free from human impacts. Corals can usually be found recruiting in bomb scars within the year. There is great potential for societal change, also. Some blast-fishers have spontaneously given up the trade, because they notice diminishing returns. Others have been turned off the practice by being shown videos of what happens under the water (strangely, many of them cannot swim, and have no idea). These aspects of blast-fishing, and other aspects of the human-reef interaction in Indonesia, may be seen in the documentary ?People of the Reefs?, shown a few years ago and available from the Producer, Don Duchene, at DON.DUCHENE at NEXUSMEDIA.CA Just across the island from Esther, and a bit north, lies the town of Blongko. About 5 years ago, Blongko grew concerned about reduced fish catches, and voluntarily set up their own fishing preserve. They chose an area removed from town, so as to be away from any effluent. This reserve is community-run, and community-policed: and it works like a charm. The people began to notice improved fishing in the bay within two years, and better coral growth in the preserve. Bombers are chased off with extreme prejudice. At the tip of Sulawesi lie the world-famous reefs of Bunaken. Fishing pressure here is as relentless as everywhere else in Indonesia. One can snorkel over some of the most wondrous reefs a human could ever wish to view, surrounded by hordes of little fish. Overfishing by itself only begins to affect the reefs when the people grow so hungry they start taking the grazers. On Java, they have been reduced to eating Siganids (don?t try this at home, kids) and the reefs are either going or gone. And, before I leave Bunaken, it needs to be said that the reefs that are closest to the sewage plume from Manado are already showing signs of stress. Eventually, Manado will kill Bunaken. One of the most telling examples from Indonesia is the diving excursion from Jakarta out to Pulau Seribu (Thousand Islands). This may be read as a journey along the history of reefs from the PreCambrian to the Recent, or as a vision of the future-depends on which way you swim. But this is not a journey for the faint of heart. The Inner Harbour of Jakarta is beloved by local yachties. All they need do is moor their boats there for a week or so, and EVERYTHING on the bottom dies and drops off. Even blue-greens. No need for antifouling paint if you have antifouling water. This would be the equivalent of the toxic soup of the first oceans, in the early Archean. Leaving the Inner Harbour, you swim through a biological desert. Nothing living. Then some algal scums begin to appear on the sand, and then some algae-covered boulders. With a shock, you realise that the boulders are dead corals. This algae-dominated wasteland would be the equivalent of the stromatolite-dominated seas of the Late Proterozoic. By this time, you are 5-6 km out from Jakarta. You have swum over the locations of a series of reefs that were rapturously described by Umbgrove 100 years ago as being the most beautiful undersea gardens the human eye could behold-Tom Tomascik has documented their disappearance, entire reefs crumbling under the onslaught from the land. Next, there are boulders covered by the boring sponge Cliona orientalis (which is the same critter as C. caribbaea/viridis/etc). Colonies are several meters in diameter. This is the first metazoan seen since leaving Jakarta, and it?s a sponge, so you have reached the Lower Cambrian:10-15 km from Jakarta. After a while, you begin to notice bits of live coral here and there on the boulders, and some time later, epilithic polychaetes and bryozoans. So this must be the Ordovician. The amount of coral gradually increases, until finally you reach the marine park set up in Pulau Seribu. The reefs are still highly-stressed, 40km away from the city-this is to-day. The parallels are obvious. All we need to do is locate our favourite reef on this transect somewhere, to estimate its ?health.? It would seem to me that much of the Keys is in the bioerosion-dominated zone. As to whether it will regress further and begin to resemble the Inner Harbour, only time will tell. This post sort of got away from me, and I apologise for its length. I do tend to ramble on about things dear to my heart. Mike From dmanzello at rsmas.miami.edu Tue Mar 7 19:05:30 2006 From: dmanzello at rsmas.miami.edu (Derek Manzello) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:05:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience, Remnancy, Sustainability - Semantics? In-Reply-To: References: <46F56ACD52BC5F4F911EF9C4264FB46404AD29DE@UNCWMAILVS1.dcs.uncw.edu><4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C9091CB028@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu><0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC94525281B@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1090.66.176.132.197.1141776330.squirrel@webmail.rsmas.miami.edu> Dear List: I promised myself I wouldn't get involved, but have been reminded of how the great book 'Candide' by Voltaire ends: "Excellently observed, but let us cultivate our garden." This theme is nothing we haven't heard before, but from the perspective of US coral reef scientists, have we cultivated our own garden (i.e., the FL reef tract)? Perhaps not, and why have we failed? What is the solution? These are questions that are going to require humble, unselfish, and unegotistically driven cooperations from not only us, but the government and public. Where and, more importantly, how do we begin? Trying to be optimistic, Derek Manzello From tdlewis at hawaii.edu Tue Mar 7 16:19:27 2006 From: tdlewis at hawaii.edu (Teresa D Lewis) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 11:19:27 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] HIMB workshop announcement Message-ID: Please distribute the following workshop announcement. Mahalo! ________________________________________________ 2006 Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology --- Edwin W. Pauley Program --- Coral Molecular Biology Techniques Workshop For graduate students and coral science professionals Dates: August 14-25, 2006 Instructors: HIMB faculty (Brian Bowen, Ruth Gates, Steve Karl, Teresa Lewis, Michael Rapp?, Rob Toonen) Fee: US $2,500 Topics: ? Nucleic acid isolation techniques, electrophoresis ? PCR and primer design, QPCR ? Sequencing ? RFLP, DGGE for zooxanthellae clade identification ? Population genetics ? Bioinformatics, computer analyses ? Cellular disaggregation techniques ? Protein (immunoblotting) techniques Application deadline: April 15, 2006 Notification of acceptance: April 30, 2006 Deposit (50% of fee) due: August 1, 2006 Applicants must provide a letter of interest (2 page maximum with 12 point font), CV, and a letter of recommendation from your graduate advisor or supervisor. Please note: This is an introductory level techniques course. Workshop certificate will be provided upon successful completion of the course. Participants must cover their own travel expenses to Honolulu separate from the workshop fee. Travel arrangements to Coconut Island will be provided. Workshop fee includes housing and meals plus all classroom materials and lab supplies. For more information contact Dr. Teresa Lewis at tdlewis at hawaii.edu. From kruer at 3rivers.net Tue Mar 7 20:13:23 2006 From: kruer at 3rivers.net (Curtis Kruer) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:13:23 -0700 Subject: [Coral-List] The long view is for the Undead: reefs ARE in trouble today References: <67.55e12d55.3134dc07@aol.com> <8C80F799675BE97-ECC-D91A@FWM-M11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <440E2FB3.5080101@3rivers.net> Is there a difference in how we manage people in coral reef ecosystems that fish for fun versus those who fish for their survival? C. Kruer clarionreef at aol.com wrote: > > There is a common ground to which we can focus; > Gandhi said...."How can I succeed in a thousand villages? This is the argument that pride gives us. > Start with the wisdom that if you fix yourself up in a single village and suceed, the rest will follow." > Inherent in his wisdom is a mandate...a requirement to deal with fisherfolk ie. poor folks near the reefs as important people and not just integers in a top-down formula to be 'played and gamed' in some Western world equation of manipulation. > You cannot succeed in village for long as a phoney, self serving group...you have to plant yourself, commit and followthru. The idea is to generate support thru respect and create a multiplier effect with something so worthwhile that other villages will want to steal it. > Converting fisherman to using nets for example instead of cyanide is an old story....but one yet to be concluded as it was usurped by the top-down primma donnas in the NGO game. > Fisherman became bit players in a large financial drama that so many 'reef people' followed [ MAC] instead of centerpieces in the fight to save coral reef systems....one zone at a time. > This in turn can create a multiplier effect and before long a critical mass of local support can cascade and displace the use of poisons to collect fish. > This victory...in turn provides us entry as w/ the Trojan horse syndrome and before you know it, reef surveying, eco-tourism, MPA staffing, environmental education and sustainable fishing start to gain traction. > > Returning to old, discarded wisdom can work...and show the way and light candles in many places. > Steve > > Steve Robinson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: JKoven at aol.com > To: rgrigg at soest.hawaii.edu; lesk at bu.edu; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:49:43 EST > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The long view is for the Undead: reefs ARE in trouble today > > > The people who live in these underpopulated areas are still trying to earn a > living...often by fishing their own reefs and selling to those who have > depleted their own fisheries and willing to pay the price. > > Yes, over-population is at the base of many world problems but it is a sticky > issue, at once cultural, ethnic and religious. Not exactly one to be solved > by reef scientists. Perhaps women's education in general and in reproductive > rights are the answers? Women want better lives for their children, after > they've been fed, saved from curable infectious diseases, and educated....and > who > is to determine what that better life is? Is it what they perceive as the > lives that other children in the world have, including yours? > > Joan Koven > Astrolabe, Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > From bethead345 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 7 22:37:40 2006 From: bethead345 at hotmail.com (di ha) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:37:40 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral age, DNA and spatial distribution Message-ID: Greetings all, I read somewhere through asexual reproduction (ie natural fragmentation) that certain individual corals could infact live forever, the parent colony dies but fragments with the same DNA survives. (first question, is this correct or is a clownfish having a laugh at me?) My question is this has there been any DNA work done over a reef front looking at asexual reproductive colonisation/spatial distribution and then the respective age of each coral determined? This might indicate the ability of coral species to with stand environmental/anthropogenic impacts that have occured over time within that local area. I realise that the massive favites and favia's are the easiest to age (though don't naturally fragment that often, easy and successful with a denists drill but that doesn't occur naturally underwater) and the acropora's are the easiest to naturally fragment, but aging them?? Just thinking out aloud any comments would be greatly appreciated Dion From cat64fish at yahoo.com Tue Mar 7 18:24:18 2006 From: cat64fish at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Low) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:24:18 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] coral-list not dead In-Reply-To: <174e3516ed5c.16ed5c174e35@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <20060307232418.7586.qmail@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It's amazing what we put up with in the name of "upgrades" ... almost every time I heard that word, I cringe, coz it will mean down time. Thanks Jim, and to the rest of your crew, for your unending efforts to keep the list up and running :) Cheers, Jeff Jim Hendee wrote: The rumors of coral-list's demise have been greatly exaggerated. However, we're having some problems subsequent to an "upgrade" of the mailman software, and we appear to have lost all messages between around March 1 and March 6. If you posted something during that time, we may ask you that you re-post tem. Hopefully, after this message you'll see a bunch more starting to come through in the queue. Cheers, Jim _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list --------------------------------- Meet your soulmate! Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather From eweil at caribe.net Tue Mar 7 20:16:43 2006 From: eweil at caribe.net (EWeil) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:16:43 -0400 Subject: [Coral-List] Sticky issue Message-ID: <892af2416b434847aa0368332552f758.eweil@caribe.net> I want to apologize for a typo I made in my last communication, the second parragraph should read "On the other hand, it seems that the people who need the most education are those living in the developed countries, who most of the time drive/push the undeveloped countries to destroy their natural resources to satisfy their ever-increasing appetite for unnecessary things." Saludos! EW -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of JKoven at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:50 PM To: rgrigg at soest.hawaii.edu; lesk at bu.edu; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The long view is for the Undead: reefs ARE introuble today The people who live in these underpopulated areas are still trying to earn a living...often by fishing their own reefs and selling to those who have depleted their own fisheries and willing to pay the price. Yes, over-population is at the base of many world problems but it is a sticky issue, at once cultural, ethnic and religious. Not exactly one to be solved by reef scientists. Perhaps women's education in general and in reproductive rights are the answers? Women want better lives for their children, after they've been fed, saved from curable infectious diseases, and educated....and who is to determine what that better life is? Is it what they perceive as the lives that other children in the world have, including yours? Joan Koven Astrolabe, Inc. _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From Victor.Gomelyuk at nt.gov.au Tue Mar 7 20:55:16 2006 From: Victor.Gomelyuk at nt.gov.au (Victor Gomelyuk) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:25:16 +0930 Subject: [Coral-List] Another question about coral disease Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, These photos have been taken at Gove/Nhulunbuy area, Arafura sea, the Northern Territory, Australia (GPS reading: S12 04.413; E136 35.976) http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white8.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white7.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white5.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white3.jpg White spots and bands on Acropora corals are not related to coral bleaching (quite often affected colonies are located 0.5-1 m deeper than unaffected colonies). Also, spots location and distribution pattern excludes coral bleaching as a cause of these white spots). Predators like Crown-of-thorn starfish are not found in the area and Drupiella gastropods are rare. What is that, a "white band disease"? Your suggestions are appreciated Regards, Victor Gomelyuk Dr Victor Gomelyuk Marine Scientist Parks & Wildlife Commission of the Northern Territory Darwin, NT, Australia 0812 tel +61(0)889209281 fax 61(0)889209222 From chwkins at yahoo.com Tue Mar 7 23:01:30 2006 From: chwkins at yahoo.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:01:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Management paradigm In-Reply-To: <8511092CB6C11C4BB2632F61A82C620C0425A368@MIAMBX.pbsj.com> Message-ID: <20060308040130.5112.qmail@web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill and All: I too have followed much of this discussion with interest, from the disagreement over resiliency to the realization by many that biology has limitatations-specifically in effecting solutions. Please correct me if I am wrong, but when I read: "While we are all in agreement that Florida's coral reefs are threatened, I argue that understanding the main causes of their decline (and their recovery) are of paramount importance in devising science-based management and restoration strategies for these systems." I hear, "If we just do some more biology and ecology we will understand the reasons for the observed delcines and figure out a way to fix the problems" I, and others, disagree with this as an overarching approach. I am hearing more and more from my biologist friends that the main causes and causal relationships re declines are fairly well described and understood, and there is now decades of literature (in one case a transect going back to 1917) documenting trends. While I am NOT suggesting that biology and ecological monitoring do not need to continue (they are essential to management activities), I AM suggesting that we are approaching management backwards. Our current paradigm is one where managers (most of whom are recovering biologists) inherit enabling legislation (e.g. an act creating an MPA) and then set about to a) determine what science they want to pursue and b) determine how they want to manage the area. I find this approach arrogant, in that it points to the fact that one group of people assumes they know what is best and what needs to be done. In isolation. And certainly without considering in the management plan the slew of reasons why a particular place was set aside to be managed in the first place. Take any MPA or coastal management act. Review it. You will find from the get-go it is loaded with social reasons for management (e.g. access, use, economics, cultural importance, spirit of place, etc.). Now, take the management plan that follows, and that is in response to, the enabling legislation, You will find biology, ecological monitoring, no-takes, closed areas, best hard science, and on and on. The bottom line is you will usually find a management plan markedly different from the associated enabling legislation. Why? Management is not simply about protection and preservation. We just forget that. So, our paradigm is backwards. We approach management by first throwing out all of the reasons society deems the place important and is willing to pay tax dollars to manage it. We then determine what hobby science we want to undertake. I use the term hobby science to describe science done in a vacuum...not related to goals or objectives. Science governed by itself. Recent economic valuations attempt to right this, but economics is a narrow slice of the pie. It certainly does not go far enough. I do not offer a magic bullet. There is none. I am an optimist, but until we start recognizing that biology itself does not, on its own, do much more than describe status and trends, and in some cases point toward promising management alternatives, we will make no significant progress towards managing reefs with regard to the many reasons we love them. And until we do that, until we fundamentally change how we approach management, we will also continue to see our research and management bugets shrink. Best, Chris To All on the Coral-List: During the last few weeks we have read a host of different opinions about what to do about Florida's reefs and also what to do about reefs in general. Recent scientific papers and newspaper articles have admonished the U.S. Government for not doing enough to protect the valuable reef resources of the Florida reef tract. While we are all in agreement that Florida's coral reefs are threatened, I argue that understanding the main causes of their decline (and their recovery) are of paramount importance in devising science-based management and restoration strategies for these systems. The generally accepted model of coral reef decline is that the shift from a more desirable, coral-dominated state to a less desirable, macroalgae-dominated state was primarily a consequence of long-term overfishing and/or coastal eutrophication, making them more susceptible to other recent disturbances. This model, mostly based on weak inference and perpetuated in the literature by a series of affirmative ad hoc revisions, has retarded ecological discovery and confounded the direction of ecosystem management. For Florida's coral reefs the implied lack of management is based on the hypothesis that the main causes of reef degradation are historical in nature and the woes that beset this system are entirely local, man-induced, and reversible. While it is easy to take this view, evidence linking overfishing and coastal eutrophication to coral reef degradation in Florida remains elusive (specifically the decline of corals and concommitant increases in macroalgae). Unfortunately, politicians, NGO's, managers and the public are receptive to such arguments because runoff from agricultural lands in the Everglades, sewage treatment (or lack thereof) in the Florida Keys, or overharvesting of finfish and shellfish are things that make intuitive sense and also have strong emotional appeal. In the case of Florida, the catastrophic decline in coral cover (particularly for acroporid corals) started in the late 1970s and was empirically observed to be driven proximally by hypothermic temperature stress and disease outbreaks, especially white-band disease. More recently, long-lived mounding corals such as the Montastraea annularis species complex have also been killed by ENSO-enhanced coral bleaching and a host of other coral diseases (1983 - present). Paleoecological and ecological data indicate that this coral mortality is largely decoupled from changing levels of herbivory or water quality, and that reef dynamics on a regional level are at best weakly linked to present and past levels of nutrients or fishing pressure. Improving water quality and conserving stocks of reef fish should be and clearly are high priorities of management, but the positive, localized impact on corals will be minimal in the face of regional- to global-scale stressors such as disease epizootics and increasing sea-surface temperature related to global warming. Management steps are already in progress in the Florida Keys to clean up nearshore waters as well as system-wide water quality and habitat restoration efforts under the Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan. When completed, engineering solutions to improve the quality of nearshore waters will only benefit the offshore reefs. Unfortunately, no form of locally-based stewardship, scientific management or scientific policy including total protection could have prevented or changed the overall trajectory of coral loss or ameliorated the major disturbances responsible for reef decline in Florida. In fact, what we have seen in Florida has been mirrored throughout much of the Caribbean. It has become clear, that regional and global-scale stressors now far outweigh all local issues, however, this should not be taken to mean that local issues are not real or unimportant. So what to do? Without coming to grips with the big-picture, global-scale, politically challenging stuff - reefs will be managed to death at the local-scale. Or should I say, reefs will die in front of the very managers and scientists dedicated to protecting them. Is this a grim view of the future or a snapshot of the last few decades? In either case, we need to start thinking and actly globally if reefs as we know them (or knew them) are to have a fighting chance. Bill Precht Miami, FL --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From davidg at ori.org.za Wed Mar 8 04:07:05 2006 From: davidg at ori.org.za (David Glassom) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:07:05 +0200 Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience and sustainability Message-ID: <000001c6428f$ab834060$aa01a8c0@saambr.org.za> Hi, All I?ve been trying hard to resist entering the current debate. But since it seems to have moved from resilience of coral reefs to global sustainability issues, the temptation has become too strong. Specifically, the emphasis on population growth seems to me to be somewhat simplistic, as was the earlier assertion that the earth?s carrying capacity is about 3 billion. Sure, population growth is a huge problem. But it?s the overall rate of resource consumption (or each individual?s ?ecological footprint?) that really makes the difference. Emissions from jets is acknowledged as a major source of greenhouse gasses, and almost all passenger flights are accounted for by less than 10% of the world?s population. I?d lay odds (admittedly without any figures to back me up) that the air conditioner in an average motor car burns more energy per day than a poor family in a developing country uses in total per day. And the air conditioner burns the same amount of fuel whether there?s one child or four in the car with you (Dr Weil, kids in poor, overpopulated countries generally walk to their soccer games). The planet?s poorest people tend to degrade the environment locally through overpopulation (overfishing local reefs, sewerage, deforestation), but it?s wealth, not just population that largely causes world-wide degradation (giant trawlers, air travel, huge energy consumption, importing delicacies so you can eat them all year round and cut-flowers to make the dinner table look pretty, everything wrapped in plastic or polystyrene). Overall, the Living Planet Report (WWF, 2004) estimates an ecological footprint of between 9 & 10 hectares per person for countries like the USA and UAE, compared to less than one hectare per person in those like Afghanistan, Haiti or Somalia. In other words, an Afghani family of 15-18 people would use about the same resources as an American couple with no children!! So when we talk about things like carrying capacity, we need to ask ? are we referring to people living like Hollywood movie stars or like peasant farmers in poor countries? Unless we define an acceptable standard of consumption, the concept of carrying capacity is meaningless. As far as the issue of sustainability goes, and the debate on whether sustainable development is an oxymoron or not, there has again been a certain amount of over simplification. I believe that the term itself need not be oxymoronic, if it is adequately defined. First of all, sustainable development is an abbreviation of what is really meant: ?Ecologically sustainable economic development?. The best definition, and the least glib that I?ve managed to come across is by Braat and Steetskamp (1991) who define it as ?changes in economic structure, organisation and activity of an economic-ecological system that are directed towards maximum welfare and which can be sustained by available resources?. Note the emphasis on changes to the economy ? sustainability is ultimately an economic issue and it is a myth that any form of sustainability at any population level can be achieved in an economic system that strives continuously to increase per capita consumption; or that growth and development are interchangeable terms. Development, in terms of the above definition is the increase of welfare, not wealth, and recognising this distinction helps to resolve the contradiction between sustainability and development. Economic development must ultimately be constrained by ecological limits, so sooner or later there will have to be some recognition that only a redistribution of global wealth, allied with a ceiling on economic as well as population growth can lead to sustainability. Since this is impossible in the current corporate-dominated economic climate (not to mention an economic system that sees life as an endless race towards some undefined and unreachable material goal), we?re no closer to sustainability than we were when the term was first used, more than 30 years ago, at the 1972 Conference on the Human Environment. ( A more radical view would hold that development itself is a paradoxical concept that has led directly to many of the problems we face, and that sustainable development was simply a way to propagate the development ideology while pandering to the greenies ? see for e.g. Sachs 1991). At the risk of being long-winded, I'd like to make a last point, relating to what we as individuals can do to promote environmental sustainability: there is much talk of 'global environmental problems', such as climate change. Global problems, of course, require global one-size-fits-all solutions, leaving us as individuals feeling pretty helpless. But there are no global problems!! Things like climate change are in fact global symptoms of many, similar local problems. Pollution emanates from localised point sources, reefs are individually fished, deforestation occurs at local levels. Even population growth is a local issue, since the reasons for it are about as varied as the regions where overpopulation is an issue. And the solutions are therefore a series of individual actions tailored to local conditions and circumstances. So what should coral scientists do? As scientists ? carry on lobbying hard for reef conservation, recognising that it entails more than just declaring reserves and that the welfare of humans, not just reefs, is at stake. As private individuals ? turn off the air conditioner, consider really hard whether your talk at the next international conference justifies the extra jet-fuel emissions, or join the protests when WTO talks come to your area. David Glassom Braat LC, Steetskamp I (1991) Ecological-economic analysis for regional sustainable development. In Constanza R (ed) Ecological economics: the science and management of sustainability. Columbia University Press. Loh J (2004) The Living Planet Report. WWF. Sachs W (1991) Environment and development: the story of a dangerous liaison. The Ecologist 21(6) 252-257. From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Wed Mar 8 04:01:06 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:01:06 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] resiliency, sustainable development, etc. [from Mike Risk] Message-ID: <173f19174568.174568173f19@noaa.gov> [This message is from Mike Risk, who attempted to post it from a non-subscribed address while on the road.] From: Michael Risk To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Date: March 4, 2006 Hello Esther, colleagues. This debate has so far proven to be informative, energising, and depressing. I am moved to enter the discussion by your post, and by some patterns I think I see in the exchanges. >From the First World postings, I see debate. >From the Third World postings, I see despair. (Although it could be said that, if you are looking at the present problem and NOT feeling some degree of despair, then you don?t understand the problem.) First of all, I need to emphasize that no one from Canada is entitled to speak from any sort of holier-than-thou bully pulpit. Our energy consumption per capita is higher than the US, we have destroyed our East Coast fisheries, and now are starting on the boreal forest. My remarks are entitled to be helpful rather than accusatory. Some passing comments on previous posts. It is interesting to follow the etymology of the term ?sustainable development.? No scientist could ever have coined a phrase so internally self-contradictory, and it is generally used by persons who have not the slightest idea what it means (in Canada, they usually have degrees in political science, and know nothing of value). If memory of an old CBC special serves, the term was made up about 30 years ago, in the early stages of birth of the environmental movement, by groups that wished to have a figleaf behind which to hide their plans for development. So, just as one should never trust someone who says ?trust me?, one should be wary of someone who talks of ?sustainable development?. Gene Shinn points out that the geologic record is full of extinction events, reef comings and goings, sea level changes. He is correct as far he goes, but I respectfully beg to differ from my old (in the case of long-standing!) drinking buddy on emphasis. Most reef extinction events in the record are marked by a series of bedding planes, sometimes just one. The stratigraphic resolution does not allow us to conclude much about the rapidity of the extinctions, and the causes are equally obscure-although Evan Edinger makes an excellent case for the Caribbean-wide Oligocene-Miocene reef extinction event, the one that set the scene for the modern Caribbean reef fauna, being caused by nutrient increase. We usually conclude/assume that reef extinctions have not been instantaneous, but have taken thousands of years. Two critical aspects set the present apart from anything we have previously seen in the fossil record: -the rate. To the best of our stratigraphic resolution, I would maintain that we are losing reefs faster then we lost the dinosaurs. One century will have seen them reduced to a few outposts. -the cause. Severe damage was done to reefs in the 20th century (and continues to-day) by humans. The geologic record can teach us a lot about modern reefs, but we should not fall into the trap of saying well, this has all happened before-because it hasn?t. There has been some hopeful speculation that corals will somehow ?adapt? to climate change-this flies in the face of all we know from the geologic record, and much of what we know about evolution and adaptation. During climate change, corals die like flies. Walter Adey has shown that, after a rapid sea level increase, such as during the Holocene, it takes about 1,000 years for reefs to re-establish on the new shelf. (Takes that long for the transgressive seas to rework the substrate, make it suitably clean for corals.) That was back when the oceans were clean and full of fish. This time, when sea level runs up to its +10m datum, the oceans will have to rework hotels, Hummers and humans. It?ll take longer than 1,000 years. On the other, more optimistic side, Tom Tomascik has shown that, in the clear, clean waters of the Banda Sea, a fresh submarine lava flow can be covered with 100% coral cover in less than 10 years. There are some more take-home lessons from the fossil record. Stresses to which reefs have adapted for thousands or millions of years cannot be invoked to explain the present decline. In evolutionary terms, reefs all over the world know far more about hurricanes and cyclones than do humans. Reefs in Florida have had the entire Holocene to get used to upwelling-driven nutrient pumping in across the shelf. Nothing new here either. Rick Grigg is correct in his early posting-there are Pacific reefs that remain in great shape. ?The solution to pollution is dilution.? Where human pressure has impacted them, Pacific reefs are often in no better shape than the Caribbean. He is also right on the money in his second posting, re population growth. Those of you old enough to remember ?Pogo? may recall that great strip where Albert Alligator says ?I have met the enemy, and he is us.? There is great concern now amongst reef scientists about the impacts of climate change: coral bleaching, ocean acidification, sea level rise. We do not know when the blow will strike: best guesses would say some time in the coming century, but the wild card is research that shows rapid climate change can occur in only a few years. Al Strong-I read the plenary to which you refer, in which the author states that climate change is ?not proven.? Puts me in mind: every year, some sportswriter in Toronto predicts that the Maple Leafs will win the Stanley Cup that year. (To the uninitiated: this refers to a team which plays ice hockey, a sport Canadian women do very well.) The writer gains instant notoriety for making such a ridiculous prediction, and then fades back into the obscurity from which he came. The CO2 increase is fact, and the reality of climate change is now accepted by virtually every climate scientist on the planet except Dick Cheney. Let?s be blunt: when climate change is truly upon us, the human race will have bigger fish to fry than to worry about coral reefs: where to put 150 million Bangladeshis, how to explain to guests that the bottom four floors of hotels in Miami Beach are accessible only by scuba...The problem of reef survival will take back seat to the problem of human survival. I will draw upon my experience in SE Asia for many of my examples-here is one. Much of Indonesia runs on three rice crops per year-four, on Bali. Indonesia has more coral reefs than any nation on the planet, but if one climate blip causes them to miss one rice crop, you will see reef conservation efforts vanish. So I would suggest that speculation on the effects of climate change on reefs is a valid intellectual pursuit, but of little or no value in conserving what we have. We lost more than half the reefs in the Caribbean before anyone could even SPELL bleaching. Several postings have eloquently and poignantly talked about our waste of resources. I note the truth of this, but have to point out that we are preaching to the choir, on coral-list. We all share the same concerns, else we would not be on this list. We need to reach the outside world. Yes, it?s true, we in North America consume too much. We can hardly deny the Chinese and the Indians and the Africans the right to the same lifestyles we enjoy, so the picture is bleak. There would seem to be only two answers: -educate the kids; -emancipate the women. We will only do so through education, in the First World, and that plus emancipation in the Third. There are some encouraging signs in Florida. The Southeast Florida Coral Reef Initiative has focussed on land-based sources of pollution, and has some preliminary programs planned or under way. But I still think we can look to the Third World for some lessons, both good and grim. Six years ago, in Paradise Lost (Mar. Freshwater Res. 50: 831-837), I wrote that a Third World country would be the first to get a handle on its reef problems, because ?It is amongst developing nations that the problem is felt most keenly, and it is there that scientific turf wars and career- and reputation-building take a back seat to feeding people.? (p. 836). Esther works in SE Sulawesi, at the heart of marine biodiversity. That region is also the ancestral home of the Bugis, a tribe of sea-gypsies renowned for their fishing and piracy (they are the origin of the ?Boogey-Man.?) Several centuries ago, there was no problem being an illiterate fisher-plenty of fish in the sea, no scientific papers to read. Now the Bugis find themselves driven into an economic trap by their own migratory ways. They are the skilled bombers of that part of the world, buying the fertilizer to make the bombs from the same middleman, ?tauke?, who buys the fish. The picture is not totally dark. If the rubble left by a bomb is not continually agitated, it will cement down in a few months. The waters where the bombers ply their trade are as remote as they can afford, given the price of diesel for the boats, hence usually relatively free from human impacts. Corals can usually be found recruiting in bomb scars within the year. There is great potential for societal change, also. Some blast-fishers have spontaneously given up the trade, because they notice diminishing returns. Others have been turned off the practice by being shown videos of what happens under the water (strangely, many of them cannot swim, and have no idea). These aspects of blast-fishing, and other aspects of the human-reef interaction in Indonesia, may be seen in the documentary ?People of the Reefs?, shown a few years ago and available from the Producer, Don Duchene, at DON.DUCHENE at NEXUSMEDIA.CA Just across the island from Esther, and a bit north, lies the town of Blongko. About 5 years ago, Blongko grew concerned about reduced fish catches, and voluntarily set up their own fishing preserve. They chose an area removed from town, so as to be away from any effluent. This reserve is community-run, and community-policed: and it works like a charm. The people began to notice improved fishing in the bay within two years, and better coral growth in the preserve. Bombers are chased off with extreme prejudice. At the tip of Sulawesi lie the world-famous reefs of Bunaken. Fishing pressure here is as relentless as everywhere else in Indonesia. One can snorkel over some of the most wondrous reefs a human could ever wish to view, surrounded by hordes of little fish. Overfishing by itself only begins to affect the reefs when the people grow so hungry they start taking the grazers. On Java, they have been reduced to eating Siganids (don?t try this at home, kids) and the reefs are either going or gone. And, before I leave Bunaken, it needs to be said that the reefs that are closest to the sewage plume from Manado are already showing signs of stress. Eventually, Manado will kill Bunaken. One of the most telling examples from Indonesia is the diving excursion from Jakarta out to Pulau Seribu (Thousand Islands). This may be read as a journey along the history of reefs from the PreCambrian to the Recent, or as a vision of the future-depends on which way you swim. But this is not a journey for the faint of heart. The Inner Harbour of Jakarta is beloved by local yachties. All they need do is moor their boats there for a week or so, and EVERYTHING on the bottom dies and drops off. Even blue-greens. No need for antifouling paint if you have antifouling water. This would be the equivalent of the toxic soup of the first oceans, in the early Archean. Leaving the Inner Harbour, you swim through a biological desert. Nothing living. Then some algal scums begin to appear on the sand, and then some algae-covered boulders. With a shock, you realise that the boulders are dead corals. This algae-dominated wasteland would be the equivalent of the stromatolite-dominated seas of the Late Proterozoic. By this time, you are 5-6 km out from Jakarta. You have swum over the locations of a series of reefs that were rapturously described by Umbgrove 100 years ago as being the most beautiful undersea gardens the human eye could behold-Tom Tomascik has documented their disappearance, entire reefs crumbling under the onslaught from the land. Next, there are boulders covered by the boring sponge Cliona orientalis (which is the same critter as C. caribbaea/viridis/etc). Colonies are several meters in diameter. This is the first metazoan seen since leaving Jakarta, and it?s a sponge, so you have reached the Lower Cambrian:10-15 km from Jakarta. After a while, you begin to notice bits of live coral here and there on the boulders, and some time later, epilithic polychaetes and bryozoans. So this must be the Ordovician. The amount of coral gradually increases, until finally you reach the marine park set up in Pulau Seribu. The reefs are still highly-stressed, 40km away from the city-this is to-day. The parallels are obvious. All we need to do is locate our favourite reef on this transect somewhere, to estimate its ?health.? It would seem to me that much of the Keys is in the bioerosion-dominated zone. As to whether it will regress further and begin to resemble the Inner Harbour, only time will tell. This post sort of got away from me, and I apologise for its length. I do tend to ramble on about things dear to my heart. Mike From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Wed Mar 8 07:25:50 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:25:50 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] coral-list not dead In-Reply-To: <20060307232418.7586.qmail@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060307232418.7586.qmail@web35303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <440ECD4E.6020809@noaa.gov> From joshua at nova.edu Wed Mar 8 07:58:19 2006 From: joshua at nova.edu (Joshua Feingold) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:58:19 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Another question about coral disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20060308074747.02d5bc30@pop.nova.edu> Victor - It is not clear from the photos, but in my opinion, there is some form of corallivory occurring on those colonies. I base this very preliminary assessment on the pattern of color loss - pale areas emanating from the base of the colony towards its periphery. There are any number of gastropod corallivores that cause similar patterns of tissue loss in other species in other areas. If you have not observed corallivore activity during your dives, try diving at multiple times per day and throughout the night as foraging frequency may be episodic rather than continuous. In order to confirm disease, it is necessary to obtain tissue samples and have them analyzed by experts familiar with growing coral pathogens in culture. Even then, definitive diagnosis is very difficult since so few agents of coral diseases have been identified. Good luck with solving this concern. Joshua Feingold Nova Southeastern University At 11:25 AM 3/8/2006 +0930, Victor Gomelyuk wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >These photos have been taken at Gove/Nhulunbuy area, Arafura sea, the >Northern Territory, Australia (GPS reading: S12 04.413; E136 35.976) >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white8.jpg >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white7.jpg >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white5.jpg >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white3.jpg > >White spots and bands on Acropora corals are not related to coral >bleaching (quite often affected colonies are located 0.5-1 m deeper than >unaffected colonies). Also, spots location and distribution pattern >excludes coral bleaching as a cause of these white spots). Predators like >Crown-of-thorn starfish are not found in the area and Drupiella >gastropods are rare. >What is that, a "white band disease"? > >Your suggestions are appreciated > >Regards, > > >Victor Gomelyuk > > >Dr Victor Gomelyuk >Marine Scientist >Parks & Wildlife Commission >of the Northern Territory >Darwin, NT, Australia 0812 >tel +61(0)889209281 >fax 61(0)889209222 >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From C.T.Perry at mmu.ac.uk Wed Mar 8 09:05:28 2006 From: C.T.Perry at mmu.ac.uk (Chris Perry) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:05:28 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Call for papers: Bremen ISRS Meeting Message-ID: <440EE4A80200007100003D7A@hermes.jde.adm.mmu.ac.uk> Call for papers: Bremen ISRS meeting We would like to invite submission of abstracts for a thematic session on "Modern reef development and environmental impacts on carbonate production" to be held at the 6th European ISRS Meeting in Bremen in September 2006. Key themes to be considered in this session will be; (1) Controls on, and histories of, Holocene reef accretion. (2) Structural consequences of large-scale disturbance events (cyclones, tsunami, coral bleaching), and (3) Reef sediments and sediment records of environmental disturbance and change. If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May 15th at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session [2] " Modern reef development and environmental impacts on carbonate production". Please also forward copies of the abstract, indicating whether you would prefer an oral or poster presentation, to us at: c.t.perry at mmu.ac.uk and gischler at em.uni-frankfurt.de We look forward to your participation. Regards Chris Perry and Eberhard Gischler Dr Chris Perry Reader in Environmental Sedimentology Dept. of Environmental & Geographical Sciences Manchester Metropolitan University, John Dalton Building, Chester Street, Manchester, M1 5GD Tel: +44 (0)161 247 6210 Fax: +44 (0)161 247 6318 Tropical Coastal and Marine Research page: http://www.egs.mmu.ac.uk/users/cperry/Tropicalcoastal/tcmr-home.html Earth System Science Research Group: http://www.egs.mmu.ac.uk/users/ess/index.htm Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer From jessica.morgan at noaa.gov Wed Mar 8 09:33:15 2006 From: jessica.morgan at noaa.gov (Jessica A. Morgan) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:33:15 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] New NOAA Curriculum on Remote Sensing and Coral Reefs Message-ID: <440EEB2B.4010504@noaa.gov> National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Coral Reef Conservation Program: Coral Reef Watch ** New Curriculum on Remote Sensing and Coral Reefs Now Available Online ** NOAA is pleased to announce the availability of a new curriculum unit on remote sensing and its application to monitoring coral reefs. This set of 7 lesson plans was designed for advanced fourth through sixth grade students, but is also appropriate for many middle school classrooms. Although the curriculum was designed to be taught in sequence, many of the lessons can stand alone as individual classroom activities. Topics include: * Remote Sensing and the Electromagnetic Spectrum * Altimetry * Phytoplankton and Ocean Color * Introduction to Coral Reefs * Symbiosis and Coral Anatomy * Sea Surface Temperature and Coral Bleaching * Coral Reef Conservation The unit was first presented at the national Satellites and Education Conference in 2004. Now, the curriculum is available for a national audience. NOAA Coral Reef Watch has made PDF versions of the lessons and associated materials available on its website at http://coralreefwatch.noaa.gov/satellite/education/reef_remote_sensing.html. Users may choose a zipfile of the entire curriculum, or PDFs of individual lessons. For more information: ? on the entire suite of NOAA Coral Reef Watch satellite products, see http://coralreefwatch.noaa.gov/. ? on the range of NOAA?s formal and informal education offerings related to coral reefs, visit the NOAA Coral Reef Conservation Program Outreach and Education page at http://www.coralreef.noaa.gov/outreach/welcome.html. -- Jessica A. Morgan Operations Manager, NOAA Coral Reef Watch IMSG at NOAA/NESDIS/STAR/SOCD E/RA31, SSMC1, Room 5309, 1335 East West Hwy Silver Spring, MD 20910-3226 Phone: (301) 713-2857 x129 Fax: (301) 713-3136 Email: Jessica.Morgan at noaa.gov Web: coralreefwatch.noaa.gov From michaelborger at gmail.com Wed Mar 8 10:48:34 2006 From: michaelborger at gmail.com (Michael Borger) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:48:34 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] vehicle emissions, lifestyle changes and global warming In-Reply-To: <20060306005801.37781.qmail@web50309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <009901c63b43$26543be0$63c8c814@TUPPER> <20060306005801.37781.qmail@web50309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2b3eaac70603080748j3543d562q4eab729c19f0476@mail.gmail.com> Silvia, You bring up an interesting point. It would be great for the scientists of the world to be able to successfully convey the deeply-rooted feelings of passion and urgency of their fields to the general public instead of letting the message get watered down through communication channels. However, it is a fine line that has to be walked between scientist and advocate. When a scientist starts 'preaching policy' or actively advocating certain actions, especially contentious ones, s/he risks a hit to their credibility and may no longer be seen as independetly objective. What's at risk, then, is the public TRUST in the truth behind the scientific conclusions. The public is therefore more likely to CHOOSE whether or how much to believe the conclusions and, therefore, whether to take any action of their own to help combat them. Contrast that with the generally universal acceptance by the public of strictly independent and objective scientific observations without policy/action recommendations attached. My point is not that one should or shouldn't take a stand on timely, important issues such as reef conservation. If anything, I would say that times have indeed reached the point where the risk to credibility is one worth taking, almost necessarily. I would love nothing more than to see the sense of urgency shared between scientists, students and the general public in order to foster better and more widespread responsible natural resource use. I'm merely saying that the METHOD by which it's conveyed is a delicate decision and extremely important in order to maintain trust and credibility. Perhaps more funding/opportunities and encouragement for educators to take part in situ in worldwide research between school years would reduce the 'watering down of the message' and bring their students closer to the issues at hand. Or other projects like the JASON project by Dr. Ballard that attempt, in a different way, to do the same thing. Michael Borger www.mikeseyes.com On 3/5/06, Silvia Pinca wrote: > > Mark, > > I think the real trick is, as you put it: > "how do we change the mindset of an entire nation ( but dont' think U.S. > is the ONLY one! suvs are getting popular in Europe as well) from one of > spending all their disposable income on unnecessary luxuries to one of > moderation and conservation?" > > Is this the job of scientists or of educators? Can scientists become > educators of the layman since they are the ones who feels and SEE how HOT > the problem really is? I think that once we pass the ball to educators > (after having done all our measurements and experiements and written the > reports) the passion and urgency gets lost or consumed and the message > looses its power and efficiency. I think that scientists could get more > involved in finding the most effective ways to change people mind set from > the selfish, commodity-oriented, careless being one to a global (or at least > generational) concerned one. Can we - or some of us - research on how to > deliver the important message, how to spread it, how to sensibilize other > human beings with the same urgency and dedication as the one spent in > finding the chemical reactions in coral bleaching? > > cheers > silvia > > > Mark Tupper wrote: > Hi listers, > > I think James, Jeff and Alina are right on the money when they talk about > vehicle emissions and today's "bigger is better" SUV mindset. I doubt that > the public has any realization of the degree to which vehicle emissions > contribute to greenhouse gases. A quote from the California Cars > Initiative: > "In California, transportation accounts for over 40% of greenhouse gas > emissions. Nationally the number is around 33%. Globally it's 20% and > rising > fast, especially as car-starved China, India and Russia add to their > fleets." So, if we can agree that global warming and climate change are > adversely affecting coral reefs, then vehicle emissions are one of the > major > culprits. But have governments or the auto industry made any attempt to > educate the public on this issue? If so, I must have missed it... > > This is one of the most challenging problems our environment faces, given > the long history of our deep-rooted "car culture" lifestyle in North > America. It's amazing to me that with sky-high gas prices unlikely to > change > while there is continuing war in the Middle East, people still want to buy > the biggest, most expensive SUV they can. For example, in the last decade, > Hummer went from a cottage industry aimed at producing exclusive (and > enormous) vehicles for celebrities, to a major automaker producing over > 100,000 SUVs per year. And as Jeff said, how many of those are ever taken > off-road? And while DaimlerChrysler has been touting their advances in > PHEV > technology (plug-in hybrid electric vehicles that can get 100+ mpg), they > were busy reviving the 425 horsepower Hemi engine and stuffing it into > 4-door family sedans, and then developing a 500 horsepower V-10 for their > SUVs and pickup trucks. Do soccer moms really need to go 0-60 in under 5 > seconds and cruise the highway at over 170 mph, which just 10 years ago > could only be done with a $200,000 exotic sports car? No. It would be > illegal anyway. Has DaimlerChrysler sold any mass-produced PHEVs yet? No. > Why not? Because hybrids are for nerdy enviro-geeks like us. Nobody else > would pay the premium price charged for them when they could get a "real" > car for less. In North America's car culture, big and powerful is sexy; > small and efficient is lame. > > Sorry if this post seems too much about vehicles and not enough about > coral > reefs, but I'm trying to address one of the root causes of coral reef > decline. We might say that greenhouse gases and resulting thermal stress > are > a root cause of decline but they aren't the ultimate cause. They are a > symptom generated by human activities - a symptom that happens to trigger > its own set of secondary symptoms, including coral bleaching and disease. > In > addressing the ultimate cause, the question is, how do we change the > mindset > of an entire nation from one of spending all their disposable income on > unnecessary luxuries to one of moderation and conservation? > > Cheers, > Mark > > > Dr. Mark H Tupper, Senior Scientist > Palau International Coral Reef Center > PO Box 7086, Koror, Palau 96940 > tel (680) 488-6950; fax (680) 488-6951 > > and > > Adjunct Research Associate > University of Guam Marine Laboratory > UOG Station, Mangilao, Guam 96923, USA > tel (671) 735-2375; fax (671) 734-6767 > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > Silvia Pinca, Ph.D. > NRAS - Marshall Islands > Nature Resources Assessment Surveys > Research and Education for Conservation > spinca at nras-conservation.org > www.nras-conservation.org > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > -- http://www.mikeseyes.com http://tblogs.bootsnall.com/mb/ "Only the weak and the dull of the world knew where they were going, and it was rarely worth the trip." From martin_moe at yahoo.com Wed Mar 8 10:51:28 2006 From: martin_moe at yahoo.com (Martin Moe) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:51:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience and sustainability Message-ID: <20060308155128.86167.qmail@web60017.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All I don?t completely agree with Bill Pricht. Now Bill is a ?real? coral reef scientist and I greatly admire and respect his work, and I?ve learned a great deal from reading the papers that he and Steven Miller and other coral reef scientists have produced. But Bill said to ?Think globally and act globally? and that?s good and very important for people in a position to be able to do that, to do just that. But to draw an analogy, most folks that go out to their car in the morning, compact or SUV, and find that the car won?t start because the badly designed carburetor is clogged don?t rush back in to start an international campaign on the internet to get the manufacturer to fix the design of the carburetor (or to change our mode of personal transportation to a base of hydrogen, biodiesel, or compressed air). No, first they fix their own car. And here in South Florida (and the Bahamas) we have to do everything we can to fix our own reefs as soon as we can. We can?t allow a great and important, but international requirement for environmental reform; prevent us from doing what we can to repair our own local problems with the best effort we can expend. We have seen on this thread that many reefs all over the world are in trouble, and some are not, or at least are not in ?big? trouble at this time, and in each situation, climate change, bleaching, overfishing, herbivore loss, dynamite fishing, sedimentation, and nutrient loading, the impacts on each reef area are different and the response of the reef to the stressors is also different. The point is that each reef and each large reef ecosystem has its own constellation of life forms that make up its ecology and determine its own response to the elements that affect it, and each reef has to be considered locally as well as globally. It is patently obvious that the reefs of Florida, the Bahamas, and the Caribbean have been suffering from a lack of herbivores since the loss of the Diadema urchins in 1983-4. The Caribbean in most areas has also lost herbivorous fish to the native fisheries but that is not the case in Florida. There is no great fishery for parrotfish and surgeonfish. In our case, it was the loss of the Diadema that allowed macro algae to proliferate and reduce or prevent corals from withstanding the onslaught of disease, climate change, and anthropogenic stressors. So of course is it far too simplistic to reason that returning Diadema to the reefs or at least researching the possibilities for assisting their return will make everything ?all better now?, but this is something that can be done locally, and if successful will most likely make our reefs more resistant to global scale stressors and improve the biodiversity and condition of our reefs. So I will continue to encourage, and argue and work for projects that will research ways to hasten the return of Diadema to South Florida reefs. Martin Moe From cdh5 at cornell.edu Wed Mar 8 11:24:45 2006 From: cdh5 at cornell.edu (Drew Harvell) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:24:45 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Another question about coral disease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Victor: The syndrome in your pictures looks similar to an Acropora white syndrome that has been reported throughout the Barrier Reef in Australia, and also in Palau and Marshall Islands. Bette Willis' group at James Cook has done work on the causative microorganism, and she is collaborating with others working on that similar syndrome at other locations in the Pacific. Her email is Bette.Willis at jcu.edu.au White Syndrome on the GBR has in the past been sensitive to temperature warming, so it is possible this warm season could be a triggering event on your reefs. I agree with Josh's excellent point that there could be a corallivorous predator involved, because of the particular locations near the base of those dead tissue areas. I've certainly seen Drupella damage similar to that. It sounds as though you have already attempted to rule that out. We will be very interested to hear how this ends up. It will be valuable to note this if it is a new outbreak of White Syndrome in your area. Regards, Drew >Dear Colleagues, > >These photos have been taken at Gove/Nhulunbuy area, Arafura sea, >the Northern Territory, Australia (GPS reading: S12 04.413; E136 >35.976) >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white8.jpg >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white7.jpg >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white5.jpg >http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white3.jpg > >White spots and bands on Acropora corals are not related to coral >bleaching (quite often affected colonies are located 0.5-1 m deeper >than unaffected colonies). Also, spots location and distribution >pattern excludes coral bleaching as a cause of these white spots). >Predators like Crown-of-thorn starfish are not found in the area >and Drupiella gastropods are rare. >What is that, a "white band disease"? > >Your suggestions are appreciated > >Regards, > > >Victor Gomelyuk > > >Dr Victor Gomelyuk >Marine Scientist >Parks & Wildlife Commission >of the Northern Territory >Darwin, NT, Australia 0812 >tel +61(0)889209281 >fax 61(0)889209222 >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list -- Drew Harvell Professor Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology E- 321 Corson Hall Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 VOICE: 607-254-4274 FAX: 607-255-8088 email:cdh5 at cornell.edu http://www.eeb.cornell.edu/harvell/harvell.html From clarionreef at aol.com Wed Mar 8 13:19:38 2006 From: clarionreef at aol.com (clarionreef at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 13:19:38 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Becoming more effective In-Reply-To: <20060308155128.86167.qmail@web60017.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060308155128.86167.qmail@web60017.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C810F3FF2AFF17-FB8-106BC@mblk-d18.sysops.aol.com> Martin Moe writes; "We can't allow a great and important, but international requirement for environmental reform; prevent us from doing what we can to repair our own local problems with the best effort we can expend." Well said Martin, Indeed, if we big thinkers cannot win locally, how on earth can we attempt to prescribe globally? Getting dirty...er wet locally may train and fortify one to become more effective beyond the horizon. Most lessons I ever learned in terms of becoming more effective in gaming strategy came from pre-filtering it thru how the locals would regard it in Mexico or The Philippines This can help you understand the face to face w/ the people thing and remind you to weave it into grand recipes for reforms. A fisherman in the Philippines told me..."Its not what you said that we watched...its what you did". Converting cyanide fisherman is not hard in village after village...but its damn near impossible with top-down eco labeling/ accounting schemes run from Mount Olympus that never reach the village anyway! Puppet-mastering poor folks from so high above the reef keeps you blind, theoretical and ineffective. Since when did good science and high thinking constitute policy? It may enable it but without the ability to link it to human welfare, government people whose careers are linked to voter favor are not going to get it. This may cause some to wince...as social interfacing is not everyones cup of tea...but it sure is a better way to be effective. If we really care about coral reefs and issues thereabouts...we must also care enough to become more effective. Steve PS; Perhaps we should think more locally and act more locally to evolve better thinking globally to act more effectively globally. Steve Robinson -----Original Message----- From: Martin Moe To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:51:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience and sustainability Hi All I don't completely agree with Bill Pricht. Now Bill is a "real" coral reef scientist and I greatly admire and respect his work, and I've learned a great deal from reading the papers that he and Steven Miller and other coral reef scientists have produced. But Bill said to "Think globally and act globally" and that's good and very important for people in a position to be able to do that, to do just that. But to draw an analogy, most folks that go out to their car in the morning, compact or SUV, and find that the car won't start because the badly designed carburetor is clogged don't rush back in to start an international campaign on the internet to get the manufacturer to fix the design of the carburetor (or to change our mode of personal transportation to a base of hydrogen, biodiesel, or compressed air). No, first they fix their own car. And here in South Florida (and the Bahamas) we have to do everything we can to fix our own reefs as soon as we can. We can't allow a great and important, but international requirement for environmental reform; prevent us from doing what we can to repair our own local problems with the best effort we can expend. We have seen on this thread that many reefs all over the world are in trouble, and some are not, or at least are not in "big" trouble at this time, and in each situation, climate change, bleaching, overfishing, herbivore loss, dynamite fishing, sedimentation, and nutrient loading, the impacts on each reef area are different and the response of the reef to the stressors is also different. The point is that each reef and each large reef ecosystem has its own constellation of life forms that make up its ecology and determine its own response to the elements that affect it, and each reef has to be considered locally as well as globally. It is patently obvious that the reefs of Florida, the Bahamas, and the Caribbean have been suffering from a lack of herbivores since the loss of the Diadema urchins in 1983-4. The Caribbean in most areas has also lost herbivorous fish to the native fisheries but that is not the case in Florida. There is no great fishery for parrotfish and surgeonfish. In our case, it was the loss of the Diadema that allowed macro algae to proliferate and reduce or prevent corals from withstanding the onslaught of disease, climate change, and anthropogenic stressors. So of course is it far too simplistic to reason that returning Diadema to the reefs or at least researching the possibilities for assisting their return will make everything "all better now", but this is something that can be done locally, and if successful will most likely make our reefs more resistant to global scale stressors and improve the biodiversity and condition of our reefs. So I will continue to encourage, and argue and work for projects that will research ways to hasten the return of Diadema to South Florida reefs. Martin Moe _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From jbruno at unc.edu Wed Mar 8 12:48:30 2006 From: jbruno at unc.edu (John Bruno) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:48:30 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] question about coral disease: white syndrome Message-ID: <847BE563-0797-4372-904B-5E130463E2F4@unc.edu> Victor, I think the corals in your photos are very likely infected with white syndrome, a fairly common coral disease on the GBR and in other areas of the Indo-Pacific. Willis et al. (2004) describe several aspects of the disease including its prevalence across the GBR. There were also several talks on white syndrome at the ASLO Ocean Sciences meeting last month. You can search the abstracts at: http://www.agu.org/meetings/os06/waisos06.html Willis, B.L., C.A. Page, and E.A. Dinsdale, Coral disease on the Great Barrier Reef, in Coral Health and Disease, edited by E. Rosenberg, and Y. Loya, pp. 69-104, Springer-Verlag, Berlin, 2004. JB John Bruno, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Marine Sciences The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3300 Email: jbruno at unc.edu Phone: 919-962-0263 > Dear Colleagues, > > These photos have been taken at Gove/Nhulunbuy area, Arafura sea, the > Northern Territory, Australia (GPS reading: S12 04.413; E136 35.976) > http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white8.jpg > http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white7.jpg > http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white5.jpg > http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/white3.jpg > > White spots and bands on Acropora corals are not related to coral > bleaching (quite often affected colonies are located 0.5-1 m deeper > than > unaffected colonies). Also, spots location and distribution pattern > excludes coral bleaching as a cause of these white spots). > Predators like > Crown-of-thorn starfish are not found in the area and Drupiella > gastropods are rare. > What is that, a "white band disease"? > > Your suggestions are appreciated > > Regards, > > > Victor Gomelyuk > > > Dr Victor Gomelyuk > Marine Scientist > Parks & Wildlife Commission > of the Northern Territory > Darwin, NT, Australia 0812 > tel +61(0)889209281 > fax 61(0)889209222 > From Bprecht at pbsj.com Wed Mar 8 15:07:15 2006 From: Bprecht at pbsj.com (Precht, Bill) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:07:15 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience and sustainability Message-ID: <8511092CB6C11C4BB2632F61A82C620C043A26A3@MIAMBX.pbsj.com> To all: I didn't mean for my message to be an either/or one. It certainly was not my intent nor is it my view to abandon local issues from any management strategy. Managing local stressors is critically important. In fact, most reef management policies that have been implemented to date have been set ad hoc in response to local issues. For Florida, the installation of mooring buoys came as the result of both scientists and the local stakeholders coming to grip with the damage caused by boats anchoring on reefs. The installation of navigation aids and RECON Buoys to prevent large vessel groundings came as a result of numerous catastrophic grounding incidents. As well, the water quality issues I noted in my previous post are being addressed also in response to known local pollution sources. The implementation of these projects will improve water quality throughout south Florida and will eventually have a beneficial effect on the reefs. Local restoration efforts are also critically important to improving reef condition including, as Martin Moe notes, increasing the numbers of herbivores - especially Diadema. However, we need to come to grips with why Diadema disappeared in the first place - a pandemic disease in 1983-84. In Mike Risk's most recent post he notes that 50% of the reefs in the Caribbean were affected in the years and decades before bleaching became a major issue. While this this true; >90% of the acroporids in the Caribbean were decimated by a pandemic epizootic (white band disease) between the mid 1970s and 1990 (see Gladfelter 1982 and Aronson & Precht 2001). What then are the reasons for these regional, not local, causes of catastrophic-scale mortality events? The point is that all the best local management practices can do nothing to stop pandemic diseases, increases in sea surface temperature leading to coral bleaching, increased frequency and intensity of hurricanes, increases in the rate of sea level rise and so on. This is a politically tough challenge (and debate as we have witnessed) but one that clearly needs to be addressed. Failure to do so will render most local projects, good or bad, big or small, moot in our lifetime. I'm sure there will be more discussion to follow... Cheers, Bill Precht Miami -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Moe Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:51 AM To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: [Coral-List] Resilience and sustainability Hi All I don't completely agree with Bill Pricht. Now Bill is a "real" coral reef scientist and I greatly admire and respect his work, and I've learned a great deal from reading the papers that he and Steven Miller and other coral reef scientists have produced. But Bill said to "Think globally and act globally" and that's good and very important for people in a position to be able to do that, to do just that. But to draw an analogy, most folks that go out to their car in the morning, compact or SUV, and find that the car won't start because the badly designed carburetor is clogged don't rush back in to start an international campaign on the internet to get the manufacturer to fix the design of the carburetor (or to change our mode of personal transportation to a base of hydrogen, biodiesel, or compressed air). No, first they fix their own car. And here in South Florida (and the Bahamas) we have to do everything we can to fix our own reefs as soon as we can. We can't allow a great and important, but international requirement for environmental reform; prevent us from doing what we can to repair our own local problems with the best effort we can expend. We have seen on this thread that many reefs all over the world are in trouble, and some are not, or at least are not in "big" trouble at this time, and in each situation, climate change, bleaching, overfishing, herbivore loss, dynamite fishing, sedimentation, and nutrient loading, the impacts on each reef area are different and the response of the reef to the stressors is also different. The point is that each reef and each large reef ecosystem has its own constellation of life forms that make up its ecology and determine its own response to the elements that affect it, and each reef has to be considered locally as well as globally. It is patently obvious that the reefs of Florida, the Bahamas, and the Caribbean have been suffering from a lack of herbivores since the loss of the Diadema urchins in 1983-4. The Caribbean in most areas has also lost herbivorous fish to the native fisheries but that is not the case in Florida. There is no great fishery for parrotfish and surgeonfish. In our case, it was the loss of the Diadema that allowed macro algae to proliferate and reduce or prevent corals from withstanding the onslaught of disease, climate change, and anthropogenic stressors. So of course is it far too simplistic to reason that returning Diadema to the reefs or at least researching the possibilities for assisting their return will make everything "all better now", but this is something that can be done locally, and if successful will most likely make our reefs more resistant to global scale stressors and improve the biodiversity and condition of our reefs. So I will continue to encourage, and argue and work for projects that will research ways to hasten the return of Diadema to South Florida reefs. Martin Moe _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From eshinn at marine.usf.edu Wed Mar 8 18:03:03 2006 From: eshinn at marine.usf.edu (Gene Shinn) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:03:03 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Reply to Gomelyuk, what is a coral reef? Message-ID: Victor Gomelyuk, asked the question, "can anyone explain to me the difference between "coral reef" and "coral community" in quantitative terms?" That question, often stated as, "what is a reef?" has been argued by geologists and biologists since I can remember. Few will ever agree on one answer. Nevertheless, I will open this can of worms one more time and see what comes out. First I seriously doubt the differences can be explained in quantitative terms but lets attack the other part of the question, the difference between "coral community" and "coral reef" and see where it leads us. The biological explanation is that a "coral community" is a community of corals and associated reef organisms living on a hard rock surface. Such communities are sometimes referred to as "hard bottom communities." These communities do not care if they are growing directly on basalt, concrete, or a previously formed "coral reef." The geological definition of a "coral reef," as often argued, is a "coral community" growing upward on a framework built by the same "coral community." This geological "coral reef" could begin as a "coral community" and grow upward creating a fossil reef many meters thick. Thus, you can have a "coral community" without a "coral reef" but you can't have a "coral reef" without a "coral community." The geological record contains abundant fossil coral reefs. For example, the upper Florida Keys is a fossil Pleistocene age coral reef, while the lower Florida Keys are fossil Pleistocene carbonate sand bars. Here is an example of a "coral community" growing on a fossil "coral reef" that was not created by the present "coral community." During a mission in the Aquarius underwater habitat (with 3 coral biologists) we drilled a 50-ft deep core next to the habitat. For all practical purposes the area looks and functions like a coral reef and meter-high living coral heads are scattered here and there. The core, however, showed that the "coral community" was only a few centimeters thick. What was under it was a Pleistocene fossil reef that formed about 80,000 years ago. That reef had died when sea level fell. It had been exposed to form dry land and was capped by a soil stone crust. It was flooded again by rising sea level about 6,000-7000 years ago but during the past 6,000 years the "coral community" had attained a thickness of only a few centimeters. Today what one sees is a coral reef community but geologically speaking it is not a coral reef, or said differently "it quacks like a duck but it is not a duck." Like I said in the beginning, what is a reef, is a can-of-worms-question. What we found in the core at the Aquarius site has been noted in many other cores taken on the outer margin of the Florida reef tract. The data from those cores were used to ground-truth several hundred kilometers of high-resolution seismic profiles throughout the Florida Keys Marine Sanctuary. These studies showed that the areas where "coral communities" have created coral reefs through continual upward growth during the last 6,000 years of sea level rise (places like Key Largo Dry Rocks and Grecian Rocks) are surprisingly small. By the definitions provided above these "coral reefs" occupy less than 1 percent of the Marine Sanctuary. The rest of the Marine Sanctuary consists of an accumulation of lime sand, lime mud, coral rubble, and patch reefs, to name a few. For details on all the habitats that have been mapped in the Florida Keys Marine Sanctuary see, B. H. Lidz et al. (2005). It is a DVD presentation of USGS Professional paper 1714. This massive manuscript with its maps, diagrams and reviews weighed 16 lbs so it was put on a DVD. So in conclusion, I doubt that the difference between "coral reef" and "coral community" can be distinguished in quantitative terms because what one would measure, whether it be species, species abundance, or species diversity, would likely be the same in both cases. The mystery for many of us is not what is a reef, but why so few of the "coral communities" (less than 1 percent) were able to keep pace with rising sea level during the past 6,000 years and form "coral reefs?" Why did the vast majority of the "coral communities" not form "coral reefs" when even the slowest growing corals can accrete faster than the well-documented rise in sea level during the past 6,000 years? E. A. Shinn Reference: Lidz, B. H., Reich, C. D., and Shinn, E. A., 2005, Systematic mapping of bedrock and habitats along the Florida Keys reef tract: Central Key Largo to Halfmoon Shoal (Gulf of Mexico). USGS Professional Paper 1714. -- No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS) ------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor University of South Florida Marine Science Center (room 204) 140 Seventh Avenue South St. Petersburg, FL 33701 Tel 727 553-1158---------------------------------- ----------------------------------- From cat64fish at yahoo.com Wed Mar 8 22:31:30 2006 From: cat64fish at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Low) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:31:30 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] resiliency, sustainable development, etc. [from Mike Risk] In-Reply-To: <173f19174568.174568173f19@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <20060309033130.21249.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mike, you can ramble on as long as you want ... worth the read, in my humble opinion ... especially the part about Dick Cheney being a scientist ... lol Jeff Jim Hendee wrote: ....... There is great concern now amongst reef scientists about the impacts of climate change: coral bleaching, ocean acidification, sea level rise. We do not know when the blow will strike: best guesses would say some time in the coming century, but the wild card is research that shows rapid climate change can occur in only a few years. Al Strong-I read the plenary to which you refer, in which the author states that climate change is ?not proven.? Puts me in mind: every year, some sportswriter in Toronto predicts that the Maple Leafs will win the Stanley Cup that year. (To the uninitiated: this refers to a team which plays ice hockey, a sport Canadian women do very well.) The writer gains instant notoriety for making such a ridiculous prediction, and then fades back into the obscurity from which he came. The CO2 increase is fact, and the reality of climate change is now accepted by virtually every climate scientist on the planet except Dick Cheney. ...... This post sort of got away from me, and I apologise for its length. I do tend to ramble on about things dear to my heart. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. From ericcoralinquiry at gmail.com Wed Mar 8 22:22:23 2006 From: ericcoralinquiry at gmail.com (Eric Coral Inquiry) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:23 +0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Out of the Box Ideas & Thinking for Restoring the Reef & Environment Message-ID: <6400622e0603081922u3848964bs9a7319bf010ae63@mail.gmail.com> With due respect, there is always no harm to think out of the box. Instead of asking 1)What Can the goverment /general public/scientists and educators do to prevent the deterioration of coral reefs and our environment ? The question we should ask : 1)How can we make conserving and restoring our coral reefs a 'Cool lifestyle'? 2)How can we make recycling and minimization of individual wastes something really cool? 3)If you look at the motivation books out there, the definition of success has largely to do with accumulation of wealth and material gains, not that we should live a destitute life but why not redefine success as in the quality and the meaningfulness of life itself? Why not some one write a book redefining success as in the wealth of experiences one gain and positive influence one shared in life time? I believe a lot of the you here has had a lot experiences helping out community projects , why not write a book and share those wonderful experience so to motivate next generation not to be too wealth-and-material-centred but to look at success in a more meaningful angle. 4) Star Trek with its cool gadget in the 60's has actually left its mark on our technology today (small handphone/non-invasive diagnostic tools), why not do a TV SciFi series with a cast of characters who is environmental-conscious using cool, environmental friendly gadgets (like alcohol-fuel car)? 5) Ecology scienctists,architects and engineers work together to build a "Tropical Rainforest Tower" with more than hundred species of plants and suitable inhabitant animals, insects housed in one big tower. 6) It is surprising that John Naisbitt book of Megatrend 2000 did not predict global warming and the growing environmental issues despite the warning sounded in 1982. This is perhaps the future trendspotter has, most of the time out of touch with ecology scientists. In fact, in many countries - clean waters and clean air is becoming more and more of a necessity and environmental technology itself is a fast growing industry. However, it is seldom mentioned in any business news or books given the upmost importance. Perhaps, scientists related to environmental restoration should take the initiative and hold conferences meeting up the business leaders, investors, banking and financial industry,future trendspotter and let them see that there is money-making oppoturnity future in the area of environmental technology. 7) Marketing, despite how much scientist hates the word, we need to do it. Feel free to add on any ideas. My two cents. Eric YSY From smiller at gate.net Wed Mar 8 22:31:08 2006 From: smiller at gate.net (Steven Miller) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:31:08 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really Message-ID: <440FA17C.6050805@gate.net> Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... tomorrow would be good. I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and entertaining, worth watching. Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of people who are already good scientists and making them really special communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous too, if the opportunity arises. Best regards. Steven Miller, Ph.D. Research Professor UNC Wilmington From lesk at bu.edu Thu Mar 9 08:07:40 2006 From: lesk at bu.edu (lesk at bu.edu) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:07:40 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Local vs. global, or when to hit the bordello In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060309080740.bhs5j3km80sg08k4@www.bu.edu> Folks: RE the argument of whether local conservation efforts matter or not- obviously situations vary, and peoples' willingness to put up with having their hard-rewon coral communities (thanks, Gene!) wiped out very few years also varies. We need diagnostics that give us a feel for how well reefs are responding to relatively local conservation efforts IN SPITE OF global drivers, while also monitoring the strength over time of those drivers. That's how you know if what you can do locally will make a difference. Meanwhile, a lot of the things you can do locally will help other aspects of quality of life even if the reefs don't come back to their former luster. So the argument for local action is pretty sound in any event. You just have to have realistic expectations about the outcome. Les From James.Sinclair at mms.gov Thu Mar 9 08:12:32 2006 From: James.Sinclair at mms.gov (Sinclair, James) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:12:32 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really Message-ID: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. Here's one idea: Reality TV. We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach audiences and result in recognition and even fame. There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end product toward frivolous and vulgar). This will take money and organization but may best be done by whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally different approach? Thanks! James James Sinclair, Marine Biologist Minerals Management Service Gulf of Mexico Region -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven Miller Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM To: Coral List Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... tomorrow would be good. I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and entertaining, worth watching. Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of people who are already good scientists and making them really special communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous too, if the opportunity arises. Best regards. Steven Miller, Ph.D. Research Professor UNC Wilmington _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From A.J.G.Williams at newcastle.ac.uk Thu Mar 9 10:37:14 2006 From: A.J.G.Williams at newcastle.ac.uk (Andrew Williams) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:37:14 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? Resiliency continued... really References: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> Message-ID: <0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC945252832@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> I am sorry, but is this a serious suggestion? Reality TV will almost certainly be twisted into a marketable product (i.e. will lose it's 'high brow' motives) and in my opinion, only really targets the grade school audiences that you have already mentioned. Personally, just hearing the words Reality TV has me reaching for the remote control. I would be genuinely concerned that instead of creating a 'hero' we would end up making the whole subject a joke, undermining it's importance and not reinforcing it. Has no one heard of Sir David Attenborough? That would be a model that I would advocate replicating, although good nature programs are usually focused on the macro-fauna like tigers, lions, dolphins and other 'fluffy' good looking animals. I am not sure a 45 minute program on macro algae (ex-coral reefs) would have the same 'eye candy' value. There are an abundance of these type of programs out there already, I am not convinced their lack of success is down to the 'sexiness' of the presenter. People of the 'hollywood generation' seek to escape reality, with implausible lucky escapes and happy endings, I am not sure pandering to these ideals is constructive. Painting this picture of unsustainable development with a rosey sheen is only going to re-inforce the apathy, the business as usual ethos. What happened to the world post Dec 28th 2004 Tsunami? The global public showed its ability for understanding and compassion - this is a 'market' (sorry that is a very inappropriate use of the word) that needs to be tapped. I say forget hollywood, tone down the exaggeration and sensationalism, start telling people the truth, like they are intelligent human beings and you may find that they respond as such. BW Andrew ________________________________ From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov on behalf of Sinclair, James Sent: Thu 09/03/2006 13:12 To: Steven Miller; Coral List Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? Resiliency continued... really I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. Here's one idea: Reality TV. We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach audiences and result in recognition and even fame. There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end product toward frivolous and vulgar). This will take money and organization but may best be done by whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally different approach? Thanks! James James Sinclair, Marine Biologist Minerals Management Service Gulf of Mexico Region -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven Miller Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM To: Coral List Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... tomorrow would be good. I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and entertaining, worth watching. Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of people who are already good scientists and making them really special communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous too, if the opportunity arises. Best regards. Steven Miller, Ph.D. Research Professor UNC Wilmington _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From cat64fish at yahoo.com Thu Mar 9 09:18:53 2006 From: cat64fish at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Low) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:18:53 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really In-Reply-To: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> Message-ID: <20060309141853.23269.qmail@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Several themes come to mind ... but keep in mind that I don't really watch reality TV much, although I do watch a lot of TV and seem to store the most useless information .. which probably is why I suck as a scientist. MTV has a show where they walk through movie stars / singers homes ... would be interesting if a comparison of energy guzzling home and a eco-house is done, without losing on the "luxury" factor. Travel and Leisure channel also has a series on "luxury" homes, mega homes etc. There's this one called "the thirsty traveller" where he travels the world to sample spirits and see how they are distilled ... how about "The Energy Hungry World" ... it can either show the most energy consuming, and least productive industries ... or show the fuel efficient cities / building etc. AXN has one in which big burly men design big burly machines from a scrapyard. Perhaps a show to design an energy saving machine? Travel and Lesiure channel has those makeover-home-while-home-owner-is-out-of-the-house type shows. Turn in it into a make it more energy efficient type house, perhaps? Travel-adventure types races ... there have been several, but possibly without the human drama you see if the Amazing Race or Survivor. Teams win on their eco-footprint (eg. energy spent using different modes of transport) when travelling or during their challenges. I even saw a show (can't remember its name) where a guy and a girl are paired up ... the guys are "geeks" and the girls are ... well, intelligent in their own way. There are to "train" each other in what each other knows best and questions are asked to the other half of the team, to see if they have been "trained" well. Of course, there is that human element again ... "Oh, I know so-andso look slike a geek, but he is a really nice guy ...". "Oh she looks hot ... and is intelligent too, in her own way ....." etc. So, any more bright ideas and who's gonna market them to Hollywood? If the budget is too big (or small) maybe Bollywood? Cheers, Jeff "Sinclair, James" wrote: I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. Here's one idea: Reality TV. We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach audiences and result in recognition and even fame. There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end product toward frivolous and vulgar). This will take money and organization but may best be done by whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally different approach? Thanks! James James Sinclair, Marine Biologist Minerals Management Service Gulf of Mexico Region -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven Miller Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM To: Coral List Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... tomorrow would be good. I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and entertaining, worth watching. Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of people who are already good scientists and making them really special communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous too, if the opportunity arises. Best regards. Steven Miller, Ph.D. Research Professor UNC Wilmington _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. From eprager at rsmas.miami.edu Thu Mar 9 09:11:21 2006 From: eprager at rsmas.miami.edu (Ellen Prager) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:11:21 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really In-Reply-To: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> References: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> Message-ID: <95D67AEE-AF76-11DA-A0B5-000A95A659EE@rsmas.miami.edu> James - Reality TV sounds like an interesting vehicle, but as a scientist approached by Hollywood to do one, I'm not sure it is the way to go. As soon as I said I did not want to share my personal life or subject myself to any humiliating situations that could impact my professional credibility - it was thanks, but no thanks. As usual I agree with much of what Steven Miller has said, there are real obstacles we face in getting public visibility. For example, who pays someone for speaking for the community? When you work with the media, they do not pay you. I've been on most of the major networks and cable stations and have pitched the idea of them having an "earth analyst" similar to their military or legal analysts, I was even brought up to CBS in NY to discuss the idea. However, the bottom line was they did not see the public interest, relevance or newsworthiness of the oceans, earth or related science - unless related to a disaster of course. And they did not want to pay for it. And when you work for a specific organization, in the main you are expected to promote their program, not large community issues such as coral reef decline in general, global warming or large scale ocean issues. Finding effective vehicles to reach the mass public in an entertaining, relevant, and scientifically accurate manner is one of our largest challenges in ocean outreach and education today. At least in my opinion. And it is something I'm working on (e.g. why I wrote my latest fiction book for young readers, Adventure on Dolphin Island, that combines fun reading with ocean science and issues (including coral reefs), but finding support for innovative projects in the area has been difficult . Ellen Prager, PhD President, Earth2Ocean, Inc eprager at earth2ocean.net www.earth2ocean.net From gregorh at reefcheck.org Thu Mar 9 14:24:39 2006 From: gregorh at reefcheck.org (Gregor Hodgson) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:24:39 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Hollywood In-Reply-To: <440FA17C.6050805@gate.net> Message-ID: <007f01c643af$1c018fc0$0202a8c0@toshibauser> Steve, Correct as usual. Ignorance is enemy #1. We need to develop a global constituency. Some Coral Listers may be interested to know how Reef Check is working hard with Hollywood to rectify the problems you note. Reef Check and others worked to help ensure the scientific quality and appropriate messaging of the IMAX film Coral Reef Adventure. We brought the film to show to government Ministers at the Joberg Summit and that film has now been seen by 20 million around the world and is still showing. There is a DVD available for people in countries without an IMAX theatre and producer MacGillivray Freemen provided many free copies for them. This past year, Dr. Ruben Torres, Executive Director of RC Dominican Republic was a co-star of an MTV show called Trippin' focusing on MPAs in Honduras with Cameron Diaz and Jessica Alba shown to 30 million here in the US alone and now showing overseas. Another MTV show with surf star Kelly Slater and our Dr. Craig Shuman, was shot last month in Kona. Working with such productions is a nightmare -- one of the most frustrating and difficult outreach efforts that we do, but it is the only way to reach millions at one time, especially kids. One of our goals is to facilitate a full-length Hollywood feature film similar to Medicine Man but with a reef theme. The producers are interested but want to see some scripts.....any budding writers out there??? We are working on an A-list "celeb" spokesperson for reefs.... Gregor Hodgson, PhD Executive Director, Reef Check Foundation P.O. Box 1057 (mail) 17575 Pacific Coast Highway (Fedex) Pacific Palisades, CA 90272-1057 Tel: +1-310-230-2371 Fax: +1-310-230-2376 email: gregorh at reefcheck.org www.ReefCheck.org From iamshanky15 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 9 19:39:13 2006 From: iamshanky15 at yahoo.com (shashank Keshavmurthy) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Disease In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060310003913.5519.qmail@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Victor and others I feek it is very difficult to distinguish between the effects of corallivores like Drupella sp. and other infections. Becasue many times we may not see the presence of these predators as they are continuously on move from one coral to another. So when we dont see any of these feeding on corals we may easily confuse it to something else. Visit this link, http://homepage.mac.com/coralresearch/PhotoAlbum7.html I have posted some photos of Acropora hyacinthus and Acropora formosa infected and being infected with Drupella. Photos of A. hyacinthus looks somoewhat similar to the one sent by Victor. There is no presence of Drupella, but it is Drupella infection. Regards shashank "the role of infinitely small in nature is infinitely large"-Louis Pasteur Keshavmurthy Shashank phD candidate Kochi University, Graduate School of Kuroshio Science Laboratory of Environmental Conservation Otsu 200, Monobe, Nankoku-shi 783-8502, Kochi, Japan alt. id: shashank at cc.kochi-u.ac.jp phone: 81 090 8285 9012 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From germane at nova.edu Fri Mar 10 00:13:20 2006 From: germane at nova.edu (germane at nova.edu) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:13:20 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? Resiliency continued... really In-Reply-To: <0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC945252832@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> References: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> <0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC945252832@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20060310001320.o8rs0s1vvo808k8s@mail.acast.nova.edu> There used to be a really good show on the Discovery channel called Aquanauts. It was a group of young scientist (most didnt have PhDs), that went around checking out different scientifically significant locations and trying out different marine technology. I really enjoyed that show bc it was young and hip. It was reality crossed with Informative Science. I think they had a good idea when they did March of the Penguins Documentary film. It was a tiny bit of science mixed with "drama". More interesting Documentary films with some more science would be a good thing. That way you have reality, but only with the parts you want the world to see. There is the Crocodile Hunter, What about the Coral Reef Hunter or the Ocean Hunter ha ha...Different Scientists exploring different marine habitats. Audrey Germane Masters Student Nova Southeastern University Quoting Andrew Williams : > I am sorry, but is this a serious suggestion? > > Reality TV will almost certainly be twisted into a marketable product > (i.e. will lose it's 'high brow' motives) and in my opinion, only > really targets the grade school audiences that you have already > mentioned. Personally, just hearing the words Reality TV has me > reaching for the remote control. I would be genuinely concerned that > instead of creating a 'hero' we would end up making the whole subject > a joke, undermining it's importance and not reinforcing it. > > Has no one heard of Sir David Attenborough? That would be a model > that I would advocate replicating, although good nature programs are > usually focused on the macro-fauna like tigers, lions, dolphins and > other 'fluffy' good looking animals. I am not sure a 45 minute > program on macro algae (ex-coral reefs) would have the same 'eye > candy' value. There are an abundance of these type of programs out > there already, I am not convinced their lack of success is down to > the 'sexiness' of the presenter. > > People of the 'hollywood generation' seek to escape reality, with > implausible lucky escapes and happy endings, I am not sure pandering > to these ideals is constructive. Painting this picture of > unsustainable development with a rosey sheen is only going to > re-inforce the apathy, the business as usual ethos. > > What happened to the world post Dec 28th 2004 Tsunami? The global > public showed its ability for understanding and compassion - this is > a 'market' (sorry that is a very inappropriate use of the word) that > needs to be tapped. I say forget hollywood, tone down the > exaggeration and sensationalism, start telling people the truth, like > they are intelligent human beings and you may find that they respond > as such. > > BW > > Andrew > > ________________________________ > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov on behalf of Sinclair, James > Sent: Thu 09/03/2006 13:12 > To: Steven Miller; Coral List > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news > lastnight? Resiliency continued... really > > > > I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. > > > > Here's one idea: Reality TV. > > > > We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The > Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much > as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach > audiences and result in recognition and even fame. > > > > There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and > scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to > boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of > reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an > atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas > towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end > product toward frivolous and vulgar). > > > > This will take money and organization but may best be done by > whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the > majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have > the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. > > > > Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally > different approach? > > Thanks! > James > > James Sinclair, Marine Biologist > Minerals Management Service > Gulf of Mexico Region > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven > Miller > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM > To: Coral List > Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last > night? Resiliency continued... really > > > > Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons > > scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any > > nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our > > discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or > > Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are > > effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are > > charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable > > scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as > > entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the > > > fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside > > > the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better > > because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good > > at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be > > > good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. > > > > How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms > > to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few > > have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with > > audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are > > traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine > > activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need > > but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between > > Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and > > Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, > > emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). > > > > I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, > > other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the > > conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? > > Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about > > script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these > > scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And > > don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will > > never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff > > that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who > > knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path > > to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). > > > > I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out > > of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of > > communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of > > the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with > > the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm > > suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists > > who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations > > firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who > > get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well > > respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked > > (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new > > communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and > > training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's > > academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... > > tomorrow would be good. > > > > I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood > > and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. > > > When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the > > talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean > > the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and > > entertaining, worth watching. > > > > Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make > > important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become > > famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the > > realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science > > still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the > > right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary > > filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to > > do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of > > > people who are already good scientists and making them really special > > communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous > > too, if the opportunity arises. > > > > Best regards. > > > > Steven Miller, Ph.D. > > Research Professor > > UNC Wilmington > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From RMurphy000 at aol.com Fri Mar 10 11:55:01 2006 From: RMurphy000 at aol.com (RMurphy000 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:55:01 EST Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last night? Resiliency continued... really Message-ID: <2a2.6eecfbf.31430965@aol.com> Dear reef community, I read with interest Steve Miller?s comments, ?Absent are charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as entertaining and truthful.? I would like to call your attention to a new PBS series produced by Ocean Futures Society and KQED Public Broadcasting in San Francisco, entitled Jean-Michel Cousteau?s Ocean Adventures. These TV documentaries include two hours on the Northwest Hawaiian Islands and two hours on the US National Marine Sanctuaries that include Florida Keys, Flower Gardens, Hawaii and American Samoa. Although Jean-Michel is not a scientist the shows contain many interviews with scientists and managers who do address, in various ways, reef issues including threats, management strategies and even resilience and the future of reefs. The NW Hawaiian Islands show, Voyage to Kure, will air Wednesday, April 5 and Wednesday, April 12 at 8 PM (www.pbs.org/oceanadventures). Best regards, Richard Richard Murphy, Ph.D. Director, Science and Education Ocean Futures Society www.oceanfutures.org rmurphy000 at aol.com (0=zero) From Craig.Bonn at noaa.gov Fri Mar 10 12:15:20 2006 From: Craig.Bonn at noaa.gov (Craig S Bonn) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:15:20 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? Resiliency continued... really In-Reply-To: <20060310001320.o8rs0s1vvo808k8s@mail.acast.nova.edu> References: <82ABF19AC0F67D40A0E2B2F5949BE8E202DB867D@IMSNEXPRI02.service.agency.mms.pri> <0BE60E6F26C4034388842EA9FA0DC945252832@quarrel.campus.ncl.ac.uk> <20060310001320.o8rs0s1vvo808k8s@mail.acast.nova.edu> Message-ID: <4411B428.4010704@noaa.gov> One outlet that I myself used a few years ago, was the Radio Expeditons that Alex Chadwick did on NPR in association with the National Geographic Society. We did a two day expedition on the Tortugas Ecological Reserve and the Dry Tortugas National Park and it did not cost a single dime, in fact, they were glad to do it. It was fun and challenging, but most importantly was the response we received from the public. I received calls from all over the country from folks who really enjoyed the two-day broadcast. Of course it was all audio and we being visual creatures means there is a definite need to bridge that gap. I know where I got my first inspirations from for wanting to become involved in marine science and it was through the TV tube! Remember "Sea Hunt" or "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" and of course the Cousteau series. As a child I marveled at those beautiful underwater scenes with all those sharks and fishes. I wish we could find a positive way to influence tomorrow's scientists the way I was influenced at such an early age. Back then, scuba diving into the ocean was like going into ourter space is now I guess. And it seems that today, young folks would rather sit down with their play stations and shoot all the bad guys and wreck all the cars instead of watching a documentary about the marine environment-- a sign of the times. So with that in mind, we first need to get more young folks interested in science and from what Ive read and heard recently that seems to be a monumental challenge in itself. Cheers, Craig germane at nova.edu wrote: >There used to be a really good show on the Discovery channel called >Aquanauts. It was a group of young scientist (most didnt have PhDs), >that went around checking out different scientifically significant >locations and trying out different marine technology. I really enjoyed >that show bc it was young and hip. It was reality crossed with >Informative Science. > >I think they had a good idea when they did March of the Penguins >Documentary film. It was a tiny bit of science mixed with "drama". More >interesting Documentary films with some more science would be a good >thing. That way you have reality, but only with the parts you want the >world to see. > >There is the Crocodile Hunter, What about the Coral Reef Hunter or the >Ocean Hunter ha ha...Different Scientists exploring different marine >habitats. > >Audrey Germane >Masters Student Nova Southeastern University > > > > >Quoting Andrew Williams : > > > >>I am sorry, but is this a serious suggestion? >> >>Reality TV will almost certainly be twisted into a marketable product >>(i.e. will lose it's 'high brow' motives) and in my opinion, only >>really targets the grade school audiences that you have already >>mentioned. Personally, just hearing the words Reality TV has me >>reaching for the remote control. I would be genuinely concerned that >>instead of creating a 'hero' we would end up making the whole subject >>a joke, undermining it's importance and not reinforcing it. >> >>Has no one heard of Sir David Attenborough? That would be a model >>that I would advocate replicating, although good nature programs are >>usually focused on the macro-fauna like tigers, lions, dolphins and >>other 'fluffy' good looking animals. I am not sure a 45 minute >>program on macro algae (ex-coral reefs) would have the same 'eye >>candy' value. There are an abundance of these type of programs out >>there already, I am not convinced their lack of success is down to >>the 'sexiness' of the presenter. >> >>People of the 'hollywood generation' seek to escape reality, with >>implausible lucky escapes and happy endings, I am not sure pandering >>to these ideals is constructive. Painting this picture of >>unsustainable development with a rosey sheen is only going to >>re-inforce the apathy, the business as usual ethos. >> >>What happened to the world post Dec 28th 2004 Tsunami? The global >>public showed its ability for understanding and compassion - this is >>a 'market' (sorry that is a very inappropriate use of the word) that >>needs to be tapped. I say forget hollywood, tone down the >>exaggeration and sensationalism, start telling people the truth, like >>they are intelligent human beings and you may find that they respond >>as such. >> >>BW >> >>Andrew >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov on behalf of Sinclair, James >>Sent: Thu 09/03/2006 13:12 >>To: Steven Miller; Coral List >>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news >>lastnight? Resiliency continued... really >> >> >> >>I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. >> >> >> >>Here's one idea: Reality TV. >> >> >> >>We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The >>Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much >>as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach >>audiences and result in recognition and even fame. >> >> >> >>There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and >>scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to >>boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of >>reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an >>atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas >>towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end >>product toward frivolous and vulgar). >> >> >> >>This will take money and organization but may best be done by >>whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the >>majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have >>the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. >> >> >> >>Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally >>different approach? >> >>Thanks! >>James >> >>James Sinclair, Marine Biologist >>Minerals Management Service >>Gulf of Mexico Region >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >>[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven >>Miller >>Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM >>To: Coral List >>Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last >>night? Resiliency continued... really >> >> >> >>Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons >> >>scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any >> >>nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our >> >>discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or >> >>Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are >> >>effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are >> >>charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable >> >>scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as >> >>entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the >> >> >>fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside >> >> >>the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better >> >>because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good >> >>at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be >> >> >>good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. >> >> >> >>How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms >> >>to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few >> >>have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with >> >>audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are >> >>traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine >> >>activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need >> >>but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between >> >>Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and >> >>Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, >> >>emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). >> >> >> >>I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, >> >>other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the >> >>conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? >> >>Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about >> >>script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these >> >>scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And >> >>don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will >> >>never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff >> >>that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who >> >>knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path >> >>to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). >> >> >> >>I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out >> >>of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of >> >>communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of >> >>the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with >> >>the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm >> >>suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists >> >>who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations >> >>firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who >> >>get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well >> >>respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked >> >>(maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new >> >>communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and >> >>training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's >> >>academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... >> >>tomorrow would be good. >> >> >> >>I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood >> >>and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. >> >> >>When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the >> >>talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean >> >>the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and >> >>entertaining, worth watching. >> >> >> >>Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make >> >>important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become >> >>famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the >> >>realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science >> >>still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the >> >>right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary >> >>filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to >> >>do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of >> >> >>people who are already good scientists and making them really special >> >>communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous >> >>too, if the opportunity arises. >> >> >> >>Best regards. >> >> >> >>Steven Miller, Ph.D. >> >>Research Professor >> >>UNC Wilmington >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Coral-List mailing list >> >>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >> >>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Coral-List mailing list >>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Coral-List mailing list >>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list >> >> >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > From caspar81 at gmail.com Fri Mar 10 12:37:56 2006 From: caspar81 at gmail.com (Caspar Henderson) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:37:56 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Subject: Hollywood Message-ID: To Gregor Hodgson, Steve Miller and colleagues, The IMAX film and Trippin' have surely helped. Hollywood can have its dangers. I read that audiences polled after seeing "The Day After Tomorrow" mostly said that if that's what climate change was about then they didn't believe it. The late Darell Addison Posey, the real-life original on whom Medicine Man is said to have been based (and who I knew quite well), was appaled by it. Still, Hollywood and associated independents do show occasional signs of growing up with recent films like Goodnight and Goodluck, Crash and Capote etc. No offence meant, but I would stay away from Stephen Gaghan as a director if not writer because Syriana - while serious and occasionally enlightening - is hard to follow and is unlikely to reach or entertain a mass market. I am a writer - books not films - and am working on a (non-fiction) account of the death of the world's coral reefs - perhaps the first ecosystem to be eliminated by global warming - and what can be done. I'm interested to follow and report on your efforts for the book Caspar Henderson http://coralstory.blogspot.com/ On 10/03/06, coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov wrote: > > Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Hollywood (Gregor Hodgson) > 2. Re: Disease (shashank Keshavmurthy) > 3. Re: Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? > > Resiliency continued... really (germane at nova.edu) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:24:39 -0800 > From: "Gregor Hodgson" > Subject: [Coral-List] Hollywood > To: "'Steven Miller'" , "'Coral List'" > > Message-ID: <007f01c643af$1c018fc0$0202a8c0 at toshibauser> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Steve, > > Correct as usual. Ignorance is enemy #1. We need to develop a global > constituency. Some Coral Listers may be interested to know how Reef Check > is > working hard with Hollywood to rectify the problems you note. > > Reef Check and others worked to help ensure the scientific quality and > appropriate messaging of the IMAX film Coral Reef Adventure. We brought > the > film to show to government Ministers at the Joberg Summit and that film > has > now been seen by 20 million around the world and is still showing. There > is > a DVD available for people in countries without an IMAX theatre and > producer > MacGillivray Freemen provided many free copies for them. > > This past year, Dr. Ruben Torres, Executive Director of RC Dominican > Republic was a co-star of an MTV show called Trippin' focusing on MPAs in > Honduras with Cameron Diaz and Jessica Alba shown to 30 million here in > the > US alone and now showing overseas. Another MTV show with surf star Kelly > Slater and our Dr. Craig Shuman, was shot last month in Kona. > > Working with such productions is a nightmare -- one of the most > frustrating > and difficult outreach efforts that we do, but it is the only way to reach > millions at one time, especially kids. > > One of our goals is to facilitate a full-length Hollywood feature film > similar to Medicine Man but with a reef theme. The producers are > interested > but want to see some scripts.....any budding writers out there??? > > We are working on an A-list "celeb" spokesperson for reefs.... > > Gregor Hodgson, PhD > Executive Director, Reef Check Foundation > P.O. Box 1057 (mail) > 17575 Pacific Coast Highway (Fedex) > Pacific Palisades, CA 90272-1057 > Tel: +1-310-230-2371 Fax: +1-310-230-2376 > email: gregorh at reefcheck.org > www.ReefCheck.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:13 -0800 (PST) > From: shashank Keshavmurthy < iamshanky15 at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Disease > To: Victor Gomelyuk , > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: <20060310003913.5519.qmail at web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear Victor and others > > I feek it is very difficult to distinguish > between the effects of corallivores like Drupella > sp. and other infections. Becasue many times we > may not see the presence of these predators as > they are continuously on move from one coral to > another. So when we dont see any of these > feeding on corals we may easily confuse it to > something else. Visit this link, > http://homepage.mac.com/coralresearch/PhotoAlbum7.html > > > I have posted some photos of Acropora hyacinthus > and Acropora formosa infected and being infected > with Drupella. Photos of A. hyacinthus looks > somoewhat similar to the one sent by Victor. > There is no presence of Drupella, but it is > Drupella infection. > > Regards > shashank > > "the role of infinitely small in nature is infinitely large"-Louis Pasteur > > > Keshavmurthy Shashank > phD candidate > Kochi University, Graduate School of Kuroshio Science > Laboratory of Environmental Conservation > Otsu 200, Monobe, Nankoku-shi > 783-8502, Kochi, Japan > alt. id: shashank at cc.kochi-u.ac.jp > phone: 81 090 8285 9012 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:13:20 -0500 > From: germane at nova.edu > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on > the news > lastnight? Resiliency continued... really > To: coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: <20060310001320.o8rs0s1vvo808k8s at mail.acast.nova.edu > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" > > There used to be a really good show on the Discovery channel called > Aquanauts. It was a group of young scientist (most didnt have PhDs), > that went around checking out different scientifically significant > locations and trying out different marine technology. I really enjoyed > that show bc it was young and hip. It was reality crossed with > Informative Science. > > I think they had a good idea when they did March of the Penguins > Documentary film. It was a tiny bit of science mixed with "drama". More > interesting Documentary films with some more science would be a good > thing. That way you have reality, but only with the parts you want the > world to see. > > There is the Crocodile Hunter, What about the Coral Reef Hunter or the > Ocean Hunter ha ha...Different Scientists exploring different marine > habitats. > > Audrey Germane > Masters Student Nova Southeastern University > > > > > Quoting Andrew Williams : > > > I am sorry, but is this a serious suggestion? > > > > Reality TV will almost certainly be twisted into a marketable product > > (i.e. will lose it's 'high brow' motives) and in my opinion, only > > really targets the grade school audiences that you have already > > mentioned. Personally, just hearing the words Reality TV has me > > reaching for the remote control. I would be genuinely concerned that > > instead of creating a 'hero' we would end up making the whole subject > > a joke, undermining it's importance and not reinforcing it. > > > > Has no one heard of Sir David Attenborough? That would be a model > > that I would advocate replicating, although good nature programs are > > usually focused on the macro-fauna like tigers, lions, dolphins and > > other 'fluffy' good looking animals. I am not sure a 45 minute > > program on macro algae (ex-coral reefs) would have the same 'eye > > candy' value. There are an abundance of these type of programs out > > there already, I am not convinced their lack of success is down to > > the 'sexiness' of the presenter. > > > > People of the 'hollywood generation' seek to escape reality, with > > implausible lucky escapes and happy endings, I am not sure pandering > > to these ideals is constructive. Painting this picture of > > unsustainable development with a rosey sheen is only going to > > re-inforce the apathy, the business as usual ethos. > > > > What happened to the world post Dec 28th 2004 Tsunami? The global > > public showed its ability for understanding and compassion - this is > > a 'market' (sorry that is a very inappropriate use of the word) that > > needs to be tapped. I say forget hollywood, tone down the > > exaggeration and sensationalism, start telling people the truth, like > > they are intelligent human beings and you may find that they respond > > as such. > > > > BW > > > > Andrew > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov on behalf of Sinclair, > James > > Sent: Thu 09/03/2006 13:12 > > To: Steven Miller; Coral List > > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news > > lastnight? Resiliency continued... really > > > > > > > > I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. > > > > > > > > Here's one idea: Reality TV. > > > > > > > > We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The > > Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much > > as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach > > audiences and result in recognition and even fame. > > > > > > > > There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and > > scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to > > boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of > > reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an > > atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas > > towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end > > product toward frivolous and vulgar). > > > > > > > > This will take money and organization but may best be done by > > whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the > > majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have > > the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. > > > > > > > > Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally > > different approach? > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > James Sinclair, Marine Biologist > > Minerals Management Service > > Gulf of Mexico Region > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven > > Miller > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM > > To: Coral List > > Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last > > night? Resiliency continued... really > > > > > > > > Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons > > > > scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any > > > > nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our > > > > discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or > > > > Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are > > > > effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are > > > > charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable > > > > scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as > > > > entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the > > > > > > fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside > > > > > > > the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better > > > > because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good > > > > at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be > > > > > > > good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. > > > > > > > > How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms > > > > to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few > > > > have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with > > > > audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are > > > > traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine > > > > activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need > > > > but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between > > > > Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and > > > > Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, > > > > emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). > > > > > > > > I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, > > > > other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the > > > > conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? > > > > Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about > > > > script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these > > > > scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And > > > > don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will > > > > never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff > > > > that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who > > > > knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path > > > > to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). > > > > > > > > I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out > > > > of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of > > > > communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of > > > > the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with > > > > the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm > > > > suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists > > > > who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations > > > > firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who > > > > get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well > > > > respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked > > > > (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new > > > > communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and > > > > training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's > > > > academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... > > > > tomorrow would be good. > > > > > > > > I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood > > > > and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. > > > > > > When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the > > > > talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean > > > > the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and > > > > entertaining, worth watching. > > > > > > > > Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make > > > > important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become > > > > famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the > > > > realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science > > > > still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the > > > > right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary > > > > filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to > > > > do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of > > > > > > > people who are already good scientists and making them really special > > > > communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous > > > > too, if the opportunity arises. > > > > > > > > Best regards. > > > > > > > > Steven Miller, Ph.D. > > > > Research Professor > > > > UNC Wilmington > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Coral-List mailing list > > > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 14 > ****************************************** > -- Caspar Henderson Will coral reefs be the first ecosystem to be eliminated by global warming? Join the investigation at: http://coralstory.blogspot.com/ Grain of Sand Ltd +44 (0)7949 140 581 http://jebin08.blogspot.com/ "fatti non foste a viver come bruti, ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza" From paulsn at ceakumal.org Fri Mar 10 13:06:49 2006 From: paulsn at ceakumal.org (Paul Sanchez-Navarro) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:06:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] sexy scientist comments Message-ID: <20060310180649.23953.qmail@web34609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just wanted to add that another reason you don't see too many scientists as charismatic personalities is because most societies don't want to acknowledge the findings being presented on what is happening to our ecosystems, water, food supplies, top soils, marine resources, or the planet's species. This is even greater if the findings may demonstrate something that questions the current irrational use of natural resources, or if the scientist or the science does not help support the political opinions of current ruling capitalist political-economies. The struggle to define a process that might help us understand and live within the limits of our planet should not be so difficult, but as long as the well-being of life (humans and other species) is not a main goal this will remain precisely that - a struggle. This is why we (the non-scientist environmentalist and the scientist) must continue to work together, there may not be enough time for a scientist to do impeccable research and then lobby it, nor should the science be alone. So, thanks to the great work of so many scientists we move forward, just gotta figure out how to have greater impact in changing human behaviour in less time. Paul From Brylske at aol.com Fri Mar 10 11:44:20 2006 From: Brylske at aol.com (Brylske at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:44:20 EST Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? Resiliency continued... really Message-ID: <2f6.4863ba.314306e4@aol.com> In a message dated 3/10/06 11:27:40 AM, germane at nova.edu writes: > There used to be a really good show on the Discovery channel called > Aquanauts. It was a group of young scientist (most didnt have PhDs), > that went around checking out different scientifically significant > locations and trying out different marine technology. I really enjoyed > that show bc it was young and hip. It was reality crossed with > Informative Science. > > I think they had a good idea when they did March of the Penguins > Documentary film. It was a tiny bit of science mixed with "drama". More > interesting Documentary films with some more science would be a good > thing. That way you have reality, but only with the parts you want the > world to see. > > There is the Crocodile Hunter, What about the Coral Reef Hunter or the > Ocean Hunter ha ha...Different Scientists exploring different marine > habitats. > > Audrey Germane > Masters Student Nova Southeastern University > > > > > Quoting Andrew Williams : > > > I am sorry, but is this a serious suggestion? > > > > Reality TV will almost certainly be twisted into a marketable product > > (i.e. will lose it's 'high brow' motives) and in my opinion, only > > really targets the grade school audiences that you have already > > mentioned. Personally, just hearing the words Reality TV has me > > reaching for the remote control. I would be genuinely concerned that > > instead of creating a 'hero' we would end up making the whole subject > > a joke, undermining it's importance and not reinforcing it. > > > > Has no one heard of Sir David Attenborough? That would be a model > > that I would advocate replicating, although good nature programs are > > usually focused on the macro-fauna like tigers, lions, dolphins and > > other 'fluffy' good looking animals. I am not sure a 45 minute > > program on macro algae (ex-coral reefs) would have the same 'eye > > candy' value. There are an abundance of these type of programs out > > there already, I am not convinced their lack of success is down to > > the 'sexiness' of the presenter. > > > > People of the 'hollywood generation' seek to escape reality, with > > implausible lucky escapes and happy endings, I am not sure pandering > > to these ideals is constructive. Painting this picture of > > unsustainable development with a rosey sheen is only going to > > re-inforce the apathy, the business as usual ethos. > > > > What happened to the world post Dec 28th 2004 Tsunami? The global > > public showed its ability for understanding and compassion - this is > > a 'market' (sorry that is a very inappropriate use of the word) that > > needs to be tapped. I say forget hollywood, tone down the > > exaggeration and sensationalism, start telling people the truth, like > > they are intelligent human beings and you may find that they respond > > as such. > > > > BW > > > > Andrew > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov on behalf of Sinclair, James > > Sent: Thu 09/03/2006 13:12 > > To: Steven Miller; Coral List > > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news > > lastnight? Resiliency continued... really > > > > > > > > I think Steve has some good points.? Let's brainstorm it. > > > > > > > > Here's one idea: Reality TV. > > > > > > > > We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The > > Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school.? As much > > as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach > > audiences and result in recognition and even fame. > > > > > > > > There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and > > scientists.? (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to > > boost creativity).? Such a show could be considered the upper crust of > > reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an > > atmosphere of respect (not crass).? (I don't mind skewing your ideas > > towards culture and significance.? I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end > > product toward frivolous and vulgar). > > > > > > > > This will take money and organization but may best be done by > > whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV.? That way, the > > majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have > > the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. > > > > > > > > Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work?? Or a totally > > different approach? > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > James Sinclair, Marine Biologist > > Minerals Management Service > > Gulf of Mexico Region > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven > > Miller > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM > > To: Coral List > > Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last > > night? Resiliency continued... really > > > > > > > > Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons > > > > scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any > > > > nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our > > > > discipline.? I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or > > > > Cousteaus.? We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are > > > > effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs.? Absent are > > > > charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable > > > > scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as > > > > entertaining and truthful.? In my opinion, our failure is related to the > > > > > > fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside > > > > > > the comfort zone of most scientists.? It's not about arguing better > > > > because that doesn't work and it's boring.? But that's what we're good > > > > at, arguing.? We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be > > > > > > good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. > > > > > > > > How do we foster development of such spokespersons?? We need platforms > > > > to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few > > > > have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with > > > > audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are > > > > traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine > > > > activities that touch the lives of many scientists.? Platforms we need > > > > but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between > > > > Hollywood and science.? What characterizes these hybrid science and > > > > Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, > > > > emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). > > > > > > > > I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, > > > > other than we need to try lots of different things.? We know the > > > > conventional stuff does not work.? What might be unconventional? > > > > Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about > > > > script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes!? And then let these > > > > scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff).? And > > > > don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up!? Most will > > > > never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff > > > > that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal.? Who > > > > knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path > > > > to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). > > > > > > > > I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out > > > > of the bag... ha ha ha.? Not.? Seriously, we need help in the area of > > > > communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of > > > > the same old stuff.?? And I'm not talking about how to talk better with > > > > the press.? That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue.? I'm > > > > suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists > > > > who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations > > > > firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element).? And who > > > > get famous!? Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well > > > > respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked > > > > (maybe first and most viciously by their peers).? This new > > > > communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and > > > > training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's > > > > academic world.? But that could change...? maybe.... eventually.... > > > > tomorrow would be good. > > > > > > > > I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood > > > > and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. > > > > > > When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the > > > > talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues.? I mean > > > > the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and > > > > entertaining, worth watching. > > > > > > > > Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make > > > > important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become > > > > famous.? I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the > > > > realm of ocean science.? But I could be wrong.? Expeditionary science > > > > still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the > > > > right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary > > > > filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame.? But we need to > > > > do more.? I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of > > > > > > people who are already good scientists and making them really special > > > > communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous > > > > too, if the opportunity arises. > > > > > > > > Best regards. > > > > > > > > Steven Miller, Ph.D. > > > > Research Professor > > > > UNC Wilmington > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Coral-List mailing list > > > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > In case you haven't seen the announcements, JM Cousteau has a similar series to his dad's, Undersea World of Jacque Cousteau, coming out on PBS this year.... He's not the Captain, of course, but he's a pretty accessible guy. Might not be a bad idea for an informed group of coral reef scientists to approach him.... Phil, you've worked on the other side of the Cousteau political fence (with the Cousteau Society), what do you think? Alex F. Brylske, Ph.D. Training Manager The Coral Reef Alliance (CORAL) "Working together to keep coral reefs alive." please respond to: 3324 SW 8th Court Cape Coral, FL 33914 USA Tel: +239-281-1197 Fax: +281-664-9497 E-mail: abrylske at coral.org Web site: www.coral.org International Office: 417 Montgomery Street, Suite 205 San Francisco, CA? 94104 Tel:? (415) 834-0900 Fax:? (415) 834-0999 This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. From N.Polunin at newcastle.ac.uk Fri Mar 10 11:47:29 2006 From: N.Polunin at newcastle.ac.uk (Nicholas Polunin) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:47:29 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] European ISRS Bremen 2006: Reef protection and management Message-ID: <4165CF7A7F12DE4B96622CCBB905864704AA52C1@largo.campus.ncl.ac.uk> Welcome to the Session on reef management (co-chairs Nicholas Polunin, Annette Muehlig-Hofmann) Probably the most widespread set of human impacts on coral reefs is that caused by resource exploitation. But there are many wide-on questions about regional trajectories of decline in major resources, the baselines from which these have come, the complex systemic consequences of this exploitation and the interaction of these impacts with others such as nutrient inputs and coral bleaching. A major current activity in coastal management is area-based control of exploitation, using no-take zones and partial closures, yet the scientific basis of such measures remains inadequate. Understanding the socio-economic origins of these impacts is crucial; why do people use resource-depleting and otherwise destructive techniques, how do they perceive the resources targeted and wider environment, and what does it take to sustain compliance through co-management? These questions and issues will be at the heart of this session, which welcomes original studies from around the tropics spanning the natural and social sciences and humanities. To submit your abstract and register for the meeting, go to http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/ now! Nicholas Polunin Professor of Marine Environmental Science Marine Science & Technology, Ridley Building, Newcastle University NE17RU T: +44 (0)191 222 6675 F: ...7891 http://www.ncl.ac.uk/fish/ Journal uk.cambridge.org/journals/enc/ Tropical www.ncl.ac.uk/marine/tropical.htm From thompaula_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 17:31:58 2006 From: thompaula_2000 at yahoo.com (Paula Morgan) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:31:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Can sex sell coral reefs? In-Reply-To: <007f01c643af$1c018fc0$0202a8c0@toshibauser> Message-ID: <20060310223158.19717.qmail@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As a scriptwriter and filmmaker, and as a former teacher-leader of a mid school and high school program called The Planet Ocean Ranger Project and The Reef Ranger Project, I want to declare that the current discussion on the coral list seems inane. Poltical education in life is a key, and I tell my students that knowing how political systems work is a key to coral reef protection. It has to start at a community level and expand outwards, to involving congresspeople, senators, and governors--not sexy scientists. Nothing is more important than coral reef scientists who are willing to talk to classrooms in their own community. Sylvia Earle is a reef hero already. Ted Danson, Woody Harrelson and Pierce Brosnan are outstanding spokespeople for the aquatic realm. These people helped award The Reef Ranger Project's students a handsome prize though Seaworld's Environmental Excellence Awards. Hiring show people just because they appear sexy is a mistake. Thinking of hiring a marketing agency to sell the public on coral reel ecology would be expensive and less impactful than allotting money to teacher's professional development, and a push toward marine education into the K-12 curriculum. Sincerely, Ms. Paula Morgan THE PLANET OCEAN RANGER PROJECT The River Rangers in New Mexico ><> <> Hi all -----Sorry James I sent this dirrectly to you by mistake. I know some of you are still waiting for the tutorial on the O'Donnell-Jones-Noel method for finding surface areas for coral using freeware. I promise you it is on its way and will be online soon. But this topic has caught my eye. As I am a creative with Chocolate Box Productions near the Great Barrier Reef Australia, I am interested in any proposals for film or series development. But I don't believe you need to go down this path. Why not try something with a larger appeal and larger market? Currently there is great options on the net. I suggest you develop a web site that offers free educational video streams. You could accept micro payments or sponsorship to develop the site. The site should discuss the latest issues worldwide and could have a map of the world and hotspots for environment issues related to coral. Users could navigate to say the Australian Coast and a page with related video streams would be listed there. The user would click on the stream and a journalist style report on a Coral issue would present itself. You could use local talent in those areas along with university involvement. The shows could look at what councils are doing to favorably improve coral environments and be used as a learning aid to those councils that need educating. I would also suggest that a free license to education facilities be arranged and advertising be organized only for those products that are truly environmentally friendly. The hole thing could be organized through Creative Commons and funded in some small way via world environment groups and universities. You can forget the Steve Erwin reality TV approach. It just isn't broad enough. My Two cents.... Luke -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From andyroo_of72 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 18:42:33 2006 From: andyroo_of72 at yahoo.com (andrew ross) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:42:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] marketing coral and a prettier future earth Message-ID: <20060310234233.41322.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> Coral list, There used to be, and likely still is a weekly radio programme in Miami put on by MADO (Miami Area Dive Operators) and local aquatists and interested folk called the Liquid Lounge. Ken English is the name of the contact, at: kenenglish at aol.com Admittedly it's largely preaching to the choir, but it is an easy venue to begin to get the message out specific to the Florida and the Keys. Busy folks all of you, but this one is an evening phone call interview. Very low investment. (i've done it. No permanent trauma) Begin at the beginning. Call it "testing your mass media legs". Andrew Ross MPhil/PhD candidate UWI Mona Montego Bay Marine Park Jamaica --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From greta at hawaii.edu Fri Mar 10 19:35:33 2006 From: greta at hawaii.edu (Greta Smith Aeby) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:35:33 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] histotechniques workshop in Hawaii Message-ID: Histotechniques and Histology of the Anthozoa Location: Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology Dates: June 26 - July 5, 2006 Instructors: Esther Peters, Ph.D., Tetra Tech, Inc. Kathy Price, HT, Glen Muir Technologies Greta Aeby, Ph.D., Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology This workshop is focused on building individual skills in histological techniques by working with scleractinian corals and other anthozoans. Coursework is designed to foster an appreciation of the importance of histopathology to support studies of many aspects of anthozoan biology such as their ecology, physiology, biochemistry, reproduction, as well as in the interpretation of coral disease. The field component of the course will include identification of local anthozoan species, appropriate specimen selection, collection, and the identification and quantification of diseased corals. We will then apply methods and techniques for preparing thin sections of coral tissues for examination by light microscopy to determine the condition of the tissues and cells, the animals? reproductive status, and whether any parasites or pathogens are present that might be affecting the health of the animal or its symbiotic algae. Course format will include lectures, demonstrations, and hands-on experience with all aspects of anthozoan histology. Participants: Graduate-level students or working professionals. Limit 12 students. Credit: College credit can be obtained through the University of Hawaii summer course offerings. Fee: $1500 covers lab supplies, course materials, housing, and food Other Costs: Participants are responsible for travel to/from Honolulu. There are kitchen facilities available in the dorm room. Travel arrangements to Coconut Island will be provided. Participants should provide own mask, snorkel, fins and wetsuit or diveskin. Scholarships or other types of financial support are NOT available from HIMB. Application deadline: May 1; application form is available on our website: http://www.hawaii.edu/HIMB/Education/ 2006_coral_histotechniques.html Submit applications to: Dr. Greta Aeby Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology PO Box 1346 Kaneohe, HI 96744 Key Dates May 1, 2006 Application deadline May 15, 2006 Email notification of acceptance June 1, 2006 Required deposit ($300) June 15, 2006 Balance due ($1200) June 26, 2006 Course begins For more information contact Dr. Greta Aeby at greta at hawaii.edu From bchen1981 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 21:09:28 2006 From: bchen1981 at yahoo.com (b chen) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:09:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] sexy scientists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060311020928.7298.qmail@web54612.mail.yahoo.com> i've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments on the list-serve. what an amazing forum. and so on the subj of the "sexy scientist" and the involvement of hollywood, why aren't forums like this one open to more people? how can we - those of us working in coral reef conservation, science or going to school for, etc - make these issues open to the general public? hollywood is a good idea, but ideas like imax, aquanauts, sir d. attenborough...those are amazing! because those are people with passion and love who appeal to people because of their passion and love. that translates to general public. so many of us were first affected through nature shows. maybe today people need something more. there used to be this great show called "first wave" i think. and it was a young couple, the woman a social scientist i think and the man a marine biologist? i'm sorry, i'm a bit unclear about the show because it was always on random channels and 'inaccessible.' but the concept was amazing. and this couple traveled around the world and interacted with local cultures and communities and scientists and other young, attractive friends of theirs would tag along and they'd involve themselves in local efforts and explain to the audience the relevance of nature in a local context and in a cultural context as well. but it was fun and different. those are the kinds of shows we need. people getting out there and being innovative about conservation issues and social issues and cultural issues which are so intertwined. its like the trend in "eco-tourism" these days. involving people in a variety of issues, social and scientific, that all relate and giving them a slice of the world foreign to them...something they can grasp onto and relate to, through a different medium like tv or film. that's what inspires and excites people, right? that's my two cents. this is my first time to write something on here...anyway, thanks... coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov wrote: Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov You can reach the person managing the list at coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Subject: Hollywood (Caspar Henderson) 2. sexy scientist comments (Paul Sanchez-Navarro) 3. Can sex sell coral reefs? (Paula Morgan) 4. Web TV and 3d surface area (luke.odonnell at jcu.edu.au) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:37:56 +0000 From: "Caspar Henderson" Subject: [Coral-List] Subject: Hollywood To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov, "Gregor Hodgson" , "Steven Miller" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To Gregor Hodgson, Steve Miller and colleagues, The IMAX film and Trippin' have surely helped. Hollywood can have its dangers. I read that audiences polled after seeing "The Day After Tomorrow" mostly said that if that's what climate change was about then they didn't believe it. The late Darell Addison Posey, the real-life original on whom Medicine Man is said to have been based (and who I knew quite well), was appaled by it. Still, Hollywood and associated independents do show occasional signs of growing up with recent films like Goodnight and Goodluck, Crash and Capote etc. No offence meant, but I would stay away from Stephen Gaghan as a director if not writer because Syriana - while serious and occasionally enlightening - is hard to follow and is unlikely to reach or entertain a mass market. I am a writer - books not films - and am working on a (non-fiction) account of the death of the world's coral reefs - perhaps the first ecosystem to be eliminated by global warming - and what can be done. I'm interested to follow and report on your efforts for the book Caspar Henderson http://coralstory.blogspot.com/ On 10/03/06, coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov wrote: > > Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Hollywood (Gregor Hodgson) > 2. Re: Disease (shashank Keshavmurthy) > 3. Re: Did you see that sexy scientist on the news lastnight? > > Resiliency continued... really (germane at nova.edu) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:24:39 -0800 > From: "Gregor Hodgson" > Subject: [Coral-List] Hollywood > To: "'Steven Miller'" , "'Coral List'" > > Message-ID: <007f01c643af$1c018fc0$0202a8c0 at toshibauser> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Steve, > > Correct as usual. Ignorance is enemy #1. We need to develop a global > constituency. Some Coral Listers may be interested to know how Reef Check > is > working hard with Hollywood to rectify the problems you note. > > Reef Check and others worked to help ensure the scientific quality and > appropriate messaging of the IMAX film Coral Reef Adventure. We brought > the > film to show to government Ministers at the Joberg Summit and that film > has > now been seen by 20 million around the world and is still showing. There > is > a DVD available for people in countries without an IMAX theatre and > producer > MacGillivray Freemen provided many free copies for them. > > This past year, Dr. Ruben Torres, Executive Director of RC Dominican > Republic was a co-star of an MTV show called Trippin' focusing on MPAs in > Honduras with Cameron Diaz and Jessica Alba shown to 30 million here in > the > US alone and now showing overseas. Another MTV show with surf star Kelly > Slater and our Dr. Craig Shuman, was shot last month in Kona. > > Working with such productions is a nightmare -- one of the most > frustrating > and difficult outreach efforts that we do, but it is the only way to reach > millions at one time, especially kids. > > One of our goals is to facilitate a full-length Hollywood feature film > similar to Medicine Man but with a reef theme. The producers are > interested > but want to see some scripts.....any budding writers out there??? > > We are working on an A-list "celeb" spokesperson for reefs.... > > Gregor Hodgson, PhD > Executive Director, Reef Check Foundation > P.O. Box 1057 (mail) > 17575 Pacific Coast Highway (Fedex) > Pacific Palisades, CA 90272-1057 > Tel: +1-310-230-2371 Fax: +1-310-230-2376 > email: gregorh at reefcheck.org > www.ReefCheck.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:13 -0800 (PST) > From: shashank Keshavmurthy < iamshanky15 at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Disease > To: Victor Gomelyuk , > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: <20060310003913.5519.qmail at web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear Victor and others > > I feek it is very difficult to distinguish > between the effects of corallivores like Drupella > sp. and other infections. Becasue many times we > may not see the presence of these predators as > they are continuously on move from one coral to > another. So when we dont see any of these > feeding on corals we may easily confuse it to > something else. Visit this link, > http://homepage.mac.com/coralresearch/PhotoAlbum7.html > > > I have posted some photos of Acropora hyacinthus > and Acropora formosa infected and being infected > with Drupella. Photos of A. hyacinthus looks > somoewhat similar to the one sent by Victor. > There is no presence of Drupella, but it is > Drupella infection. > > Regards > shashank > > "the role of infinitely small in nature is infinitely large"-Louis Pasteur > > > Keshavmurthy Shashank > phD candidate > Kochi University, Graduate School of Kuroshio Science > Laboratory of Environmental Conservation > Otsu 200, Monobe, Nankoku-shi > 783-8502, Kochi, Japan > alt. id: shashank at cc.kochi-u.ac.jp > phone: 81 090 8285 9012 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:13:20 -0500 > From: germane at nova.edu > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on > the news > lastnight? Resiliency continued... really > To: coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: <20060310001320.o8rs0s1vvo808k8s at mail.acast.nova.edu > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" > > There used to be a really good show on the Discovery channel called > Aquanauts. It was a group of young scientist (most didnt have PhDs), > that went around checking out different scientifically significant > locations and trying out different marine technology. I really enjoyed > that show bc it was young and hip. It was reality crossed with > Informative Science. > > I think they had a good idea when they did March of the Penguins > Documentary film. It was a tiny bit of science mixed with "drama". More > interesting Documentary films with some more science would be a good > thing. That way you have reality, but only with the parts you want the > world to see. > > There is the Crocodile Hunter, What about the Coral Reef Hunter or the > Ocean Hunter ha ha...Different Scientists exploring different marine > habitats. > > Audrey Germane > Masters Student Nova Southeastern University > > > > > Quoting Andrew Williams : > > > I am sorry, but is this a serious suggestion? > > > > Reality TV will almost certainly be twisted into a marketable product > > (i.e. will lose it's 'high brow' motives) and in my opinion, only > > really targets the grade school audiences that you have already > > mentioned. Personally, just hearing the words Reality TV has me > > reaching for the remote control. I would be genuinely concerned that > > instead of creating a 'hero' we would end up making the whole subject > > a joke, undermining it's importance and not reinforcing it. > > > > Has no one heard of Sir David Attenborough? That would be a model > > that I would advocate replicating, although good nature programs are > > usually focused on the macro-fauna like tigers, lions, dolphins and > > other 'fluffy' good looking animals. I am not sure a 45 minute > > program on macro algae (ex-coral reefs) would have the same 'eye > > candy' value. There are an abundance of these type of programs out > > there already, I am not convinced their lack of success is down to > > the 'sexiness' of the presenter. > > > > People of the 'hollywood generation' seek to escape reality, with > > implausible lucky escapes and happy endings, I am not sure pandering > > to these ideals is constructive. Painting this picture of > > unsustainable development with a rosey sheen is only going to > > re-inforce the apathy, the business as usual ethos. > > > > What happened to the world post Dec 28th 2004 Tsunami? The global > > public showed its ability for understanding and compassion - this is > > a 'market' (sorry that is a very inappropriate use of the word) that > > needs to be tapped. I say forget hollywood, tone down the > > exaggeration and sensationalism, start telling people the truth, like > > they are intelligent human beings and you may find that they respond > > as such. > > > > BW > > > > Andrew > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov on behalf of Sinclair, > James > > Sent: Thu 09/03/2006 13:12 > > To: Steven Miller; Coral List > > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news > > lastnight? Resiliency continued... really > > > > > > > > I think Steve has some good points. Let's brainstorm it. > > > > > > > > Here's one idea: Reality TV. > > > > > > > > We need to take it a step beyond "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and "The > > Crocodile Hunter" to target audiences older than grade school. As much > > as I detest most reality TV shows, I have to admit that they reach > > audiences and result in recognition and even fame. > > > > > > > > There are lots of ways this could be done to feature science and > > scientists. (I'll let everyone on the List develop their own ideas, to > > boost creativity). Such a show could be considered the upper crust of > > reality TV, with a basis in something significant (not pointless) and an > > atmosphere of respect (not crass). (I don't mind skewing your ideas > > towards culture and significance. I'm sure Hollywood will skew the end > > product toward frivolous and vulgar). > > > > > > > > This will take money and organization but may best be done by > > whoever-it-is that sponsors Hollywood reality TV. That way, the > > majority of the logistics will be arranged by people who already have > > the resources and know-how to produce a TV show. > > > > > > > > Care to venture some ideas of how to make this work? Or a totally > > different approach? > > > > Thanks! > > James > > > > James Sinclair, Marine Biologist > > Minerals Management Service > > Gulf of Mexico Region > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steven > > Miller > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:31 PM > > To: Coral List > > Subject: [Coral-List] Did you see that sexy scientist on the news last > > night? Resiliency continued... really > > > > > > > > Changing the subject just a little, I believe that one of the reasons > > > > scientists are so easy to ignore these days is that we don't have any > > > > nationally or internationally known personalities who speak for our > > > > discipline. I'm talking about no Einsteins, Carsons, Sagans, or > > > > Cousteaus. We certainly don't have any ocean advocates who are > > > > effective outside the realm of academics or NGOs. Absent are > > > > charismatic, camera-savvy, camera-friendly, willing, and respectable > > > > scientists who are widely known and accepted by the public as > > > > entertaining and truthful. In my opinion, our failure is related to the > > > > > > fact that today's media environment requires an approach that is outside > > > > > > > the comfort zone of most scientists. It's not about arguing better > > > > because that doesn't work and it's boring. But that's what we're good > > > > at, arguing. We need famous, entertaining, and trusted (heroic would be > > > > > > > good too) scientists to speak for the ocean. > > > > > > > > How do we foster development of such spokespersons? We need platforms > > > > to showcase the talents of our best communicators and hope that a few > > > > have that "something special" that allows them to connect broadly with > > > > audiences. Platforms that currently exist to showcase "talent" are > > > > traditional in the sense that TV news and documentaries are routine > > > > activities that touch the lives of many scientists. Platforms we need > > > > but don't have include what is best described as a marriage between > > > > Hollywood and science. What characterizes these hybrid science and > > > > Hollywood platforms is that they are entertaining, including comedy, > > > > emotion, drama, maybe even sex (thus my headline above). > > > > > > > > I don't exactly have the answer about how to make such a thing happen, > > > > other than we need to try lots of different things. We know the > > > > conventional stuff does not work. What might be unconventional? > > > > Development programs that send scientists to Hollywood to learn about > > > > script writing, filmmaking, even acting classes! And then let these > > > > scientists loose with their new skills (fund them to do stuff). And > > > > don't hold it against them when tenure decisions come up! Most will > > > > never become famous but I bet they will produce some really good stuff > > > > that will be important in other ways so its a no-lose proposal. Who > > > > knows, maybe one or two will produce something that helps launch a path > > > > to stardom (but not so they have to give up their day jobs). > > > > > > > > I have other ideas too, but my agent told me not to let everything out > > > > of the bag... ha ha ha. Not. Seriously, we need help in the area of > > > > communications and I'm not talking about bigger budgets to do more of > > > > the same old stuff. And I'm not talking about how to talk better with > > > > the press. That's an issue, but it's a conventional issue. I'm > > > > suggesting that we need to find and nurture a generation of scientists > > > > who seriously understand the new media landscape of public relations > > > > firms, sound bites, and all the rest (the Hollywood element). And who > > > > get famous! Of course, these scientists have to be excellent and well > > > > respected in their fields because you can bet they will be attacked > > > > (maybe first and most viciously by their peers). This new > > > > communications paradigm requires an investment in infrastructure and > > > > training that I believe is missing, and worse is shunned, in today's > > > > academic world. But that could change... maybe.... eventually.... > > > > tomorrow would be good. > > > > > > > > I suggest that innovative communication strategies that marry Hollywood > > > > and science also apply to organizations, especially environmental NGOs. > > > > > > When I say Hollywood I don't mean using Hollywood stars to front (the > > > > talking head syndrome) for scientific or environmental issues. I mean > > > > the techniques of Hollywood that make issues and people interesting and > > > > entertaining, worth watching. > > > > > > > > Finally, I understand that people can do important things, make > > > > important discoveries, with a secondary result being that they become > > > > famous. I don't think we are likely to see such discoveries within the > > > > realm of ocean science. But I could be wrong. Expeditionary science > > > > still has an important role to play and it's possible that placing the > > > > right people on ships and in subs, with the right documentary > > > > filmmakers, might eventually create Cousteau-like fame. But we need to > > > > do more. I'm suggesting a pro-active approach that uses a core group of > > > > > > > people who are already good scientists and making them really special > > > > communicators, and then hoping a few of them won't mind becoming famous > > > > too, if the opportunity arises. > > > > > > > > Best regards. > > > > > > > > Steven Miller, Ph.D. > > > > Research Professor > > > > UNC Wilmington > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Coral-List mailing list > > > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 14 > ****************************************** > -- Caspar Henderson Will coral reefs be the first ecosystem to be eliminated by global warming? Join the investigation at: http://coralstory.blogspot.com/ Grain of Sand Ltd +44 (0)7949 140 581 http://jebin08.blogspot.com/ "fatti non foste a viver come bruti, ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza" ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:06:49 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Sanchez-Navarro Subject: [Coral-List] sexy scientist comments To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <20060310180649.23953.qmail at web34609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Just wanted to add that another reason you don't see too many scientists as charismatic personalities is because most societies don't want to acknowledge the findings being presented on what is happening to our ecosystems, water, food supplies, top soils, marine resources, or the planet's species. This is even greater if the findings may demonstrate something that questions the current irrational use of natural resources, or if the scientist or the science does not help support the political opinions of current ruling capitalist political-economies. The struggle to define a process that might help us understand and live within the limits of our planet should not be so difficult, but as long as the well-being of life (humans and other species) is not a main goal this will remain precisely that - a struggle. This is why we (the non-scientist environmentalist and the scientist) must continue to work together, there may not be enough time for a scientist to do impeccable research and then lobby it, nor should the science be alone. So, thanks to the great work of so many scientists we move forward, just gotta figure out how to have greater impact in changing human behaviour in less time. Paul ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:31:58 -0800 (PST) === message truncated === --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From cnidaria at earthlink.net Sat Mar 11 11:14:37 2006 From: cnidaria at earthlink.net (James M. Cervino) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:14:37 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Goreau family "early paper" Message-ID: Coral and Coral Reefs Thomas F. Goreau, Nora I. Goreau, Thomas J. Goreau This paper, still the classic introduction to the field, was written around 1970, but its publication was delayed by nearly 10 years because the publishers did not think coral reefs were of sufficient interest to the public. It was written at a time when large scale coral bleaching, coral diseases, and coral reef eutrophication were unknown, or confined to tiny areas with extreme local stresses. All of that changed in the decades after this paper was published, as coral reefs began dying on a large scale and the reefs described in this paper virtually vanished. Nevertheless this paper makes clear that even then the most experienced coral reef researchers were aware that coral reefs were exceptionally vulnerable systems and could be easily destroyed by human activities. We knew that they were highly sensitive, but did not yet realize just precisely how fragile they were. It was only in the following decade that we were able to quantitatively establish the precise tolerance limits of coral reefs to global warming and nutrient pollution and found they were the lowest of any ecosystem. The temperature limits have now been established as 1 degree C above normal for the duration of the warmest month to cause large scale bleaching, and a bit above that to cause serious mortality (see other papers on this web site). The nutrient limits above which massive overfertilization of the algae causes them to overgrow and kill the reef has been found to be 1.0 micromole per liter (0.014 ppm) of available nitrogen and 0.1 micromole per liter (0.003 ppm) of available phosophorus (see other papers on this web site). Along with the massive global outbreaks of new coral diseases that started after this paper was written (see papers posted on this web site), these new limits and the older scientific studies documented in this paper clearly refute the popular fad of "resilient reefs", which is now being touted by governments, international funding agencies, and large environmental organizations. This hypothesis claims that coral reefs will bounce back from any human caused stress all by themselves, no matter what we do, which cannot be supported by any long term observations. It serves as a smoke-screen designed to prevent action to reduce global, regional, and local stresses to reefs, and block efforts to restore damaged habitats. Those touting "resilience" claim that we "should do nothing at all and the reefs will recover all by themselves", are getting huge sums of funding from the US and Australian Governments and the World Bank. Their actions are directly responsible for speeding the rate of reef destruction and preventing action when it could have made a difference. A few corrections to the paper are needed. The subtitle should say that reefs are the most species rich ecosystem in the oceans, not on earth. This unfortunate error was made by the editors, we were always fully aware of the unique diversity of rain forest insects. The drawings and maps were done by the magazine staff and are very poor compared to the original drawings we submitted, which we will also post in due course. With these caveats and updates, this paper serves as an ideal introduction to corals and coral reefs when supplemented by the later papers on coral reef bleaching, diseases, eutrophication, and restoration posted on this web site. Thomas J. Goreau, PhD President Global Coral Reef Alliance 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge MA 02139 (Click below to download the paper in PDF form. (4.2MB) http://www.globalcoral.org/coral_and_coral_reefs_commentary.htm -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Pathology Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** From explore at oceanopportunity.com Sat Mar 11 08:58:10 2006 From: explore at oceanopportunity.com (Mike Lombardi) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:58:10 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Web TV and 3d surface area In-Reply-To: <380-220063510224744796@M2W126.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <000901c64513$d5dd8ec0$2f01a8c0@ADMIN> I wanted to offer some thoughts, elaborating on the previous comment "when Cousteau is this is was like going into outer space". Indeed it was, and that highlights a critical component to the sex-appeal that has been recognized with these discussions as a critical element in promoting the marine sciences. Cousteau acknowledged his NOT being a scientist. He was an explorer, and through his explorations, he facilitated and inspired new areas of scientific focus, new needs for underwater innovation/technology, and captured what was the 'unknown' in several media formats and presented them to the public in an exciting, and digestible format. Now, many may think that this glamour behind the marine sciences is approaching an end, but I beg to differ...there are numerous ocean exploration programs that NOAA has funded, as well as private endeavors, that do indeed have that sex-appeal, and with personal experience in such explorations over the years, I can say without hesitation that there is indeed an opportunity to reach the masses with something new, exciting, sexy, and in a way that will benefit marine science across the board. Such efforts are marketed wonderfully within our community, but unfortunately are in many cases still not marketed to the general public in a format that they can wrap their head around. In the case of true exploration...the significance and integrity of the scientific effort is strong, and it is the willingness to collaborate with the exploration community, and the media (in various formats) will create a publicly attractive venue. I guess the short take-home is...there are scientists out there, explorers out there, innovators out there, and media outlets...but it is all too rare that they work together. The story needs to be captivating, and meet the general public with something they can relate to everyday, and are willing to strike up conversation about over dinner, around the water-cooler at work, and inspires them to take the initiative to learn more for their own well-being. Michael Lombardi Oceans of Opportunity www.oceanopportunity.com -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of luke.odonnell at jcu.edu.au Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 5:48 PM To: Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: [SPAM] [Coral-List] Web TV and 3d surface area Hi all -----Sorry James I sent this dirrectly to you by mistake. I know some of you are still waiting for the tutorial on the O'Donnell-Jones-Noel method for finding surface areas for coral using freeware. I promise you it is on its way and will be online soon. But this topic has caught my eye. As I am a creative with Chocolate Box Productions near the Great Barrier Reef Australia, I am interested in any proposals for film or series development. But I don't believe you need to go down this path. Why not try something with a larger appeal and larger market? Currently there is great options on the net. I suggest you develop a web site that offers free educational video streams. You could accept micro payments or sponsorship to develop the site. The site should discuss the latest issues worldwide and could have a map of the world and hotspots for environment issues related to coral. Users could navigate to say the Australian Coast and a page with related video streams would be listed there. The user would click on the stream and a journalist style report on a Coral issue would present itself. You could use local talent in those areas along with university involvement. The shows could look at what councils are doing to favorably improve coral environments and be used as a learning aid to those councils that need educating. I would also suggest that a free license to education facilities be arranged and advertising be organized only for those products that are truly environmentally friendly. The hole thing could be organized through Creative Commons and funded in some small way via world environment groups and universities. You can forget the Steve Erwin reality TV approach. It just isn't broad enough. My Two cents.... Luke -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From martin_moe at yahoo.com Sat Mar 11 10:32:18 2006 From: martin_moe at yahoo.com (Martin Moe) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:32:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Sexy Scientists and TV shows Message-ID: <20060311153218.16303.qmail@web60016.mail.yahoo.com> To all, Lets assume that the recent threads on sexy scientists and TVC reality shows have the following motivations, among others. 1. Enhance public knowledge and concern on the plight of the reefs and other marine environments. 2. Create public support and acceptance for MPAs. 3. Stimulate bright students to enter careers focused on marine science. 4. Stimulate recreational users of the marine environment to be more aware of how their activities can negatively impact marine environments and living marine resources and how to reduce personal contributions to negative environmental impacts and enhance positive attitudes and activities. 5. Enhance the knowledge and concern of commercial fishermen on the current condition of marine renewable resources and stimulate their personal responsibility toward conservation and sustainable fishing practices. 6. Create a public ethic of personal concern and respect for natural places and respectful and sustainable use of natural resources. 7. Curb and eliminate wherever possible hydrocarbon and carbon dioxide emissions to reduce and eventually reverse the pace of anthropogenic climate change. OK, a good public relations campaign and popular TV shows could/would go a long way towards accomplishing the first 6 of these points, and this would be a very good thing. But number 7, sorry, in my humble opinion, it won?t work. There is only one way to change the ingrained essential needs of the American public (and most other countries as well) for personal transportation and their psychological identification with their personal choice of vehicle. You have to hit them in the only place that really counts in their personal life, and that is in the pocketbook. There is now well developed and also nascent technology for non polluting vehicles powered by hydrogen, bio-diesel, electric, and compressed air engines. All have their advantages and disadvantages, I don?t know which will rise to the top of heap but we must create the conditions that will strongly stimulate the development and acceptance of vehicles that are not dependent, or at least not greatly dependent, on polluting fossil fuels. And the thing that will best do this is very expensive gasoline and diesel fuel, like $10.00 a gallon, or more . What should be done, again in my humble opinion, is to put an ?environmental tax? on every gallon of gas and diesel, starting low, like maybe 10 cents per gallon, and over the space of 10 years climbing to really hurtful levels, levels to the point where Billy Joe Bob will decide that he really can?t afford to drive his 350 hp pickup truck and will opt, out of necessity, for an inexpensive electric or compressed air powered vehicle for everyday use that can be quickly modified to function as small truck or passenger car. The astronomical tax on fossil fuels must be used, not to wage war, but to subsidize the development and purchase price of non polluting vehicles. Over the span of 10 years it should be possible to present the public with the choice of spending $40,000 for a vehicle that will cost 8or 10 thousand dollars a year to operate, or a $15,000 vehicle that runs on electric or compressed air at a fraction of the price of fossil fuel. Do we have the political and economic will to do this, I hope so, the alterative for our civilization may not be very pretty. And concomitantly of course, we must change public attitudes toward other wasteful and non essential elements of our civilization such as excessive use of grains to produce unsustainable and unnecessary quantities of meat and use of the excessive amounts of sugar that pervades our food supply with the basic elements of obesity and diabetic development. And also, efforts must be expanded on development of other means of electric generation, wind, water (tides perhaps), solar, and non polluting use of coal resources. Again, the astronomical tax on gas and diesel may help in this effort also. And then there is the economic inequality between most of the world?s populations and the developed countries, and the effect of irrational religions (most of them) on the basic conduct of life of human population. And, sorry, I don?t know what to do about that. Martin Moe From lesk at bu.edu Sun Mar 12 08:16:15 2006 From: lesk at bu.edu (lesk at bu.edu) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:16:15 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Reefs WILL bounce back...for somebody else In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060312081615.g6xhg9wv4gwkwcgk@www.bu.edu> James warns us that the claim that coral reefs are resilient and so will bounce back from human abuse, is false. It is not false. It is highly likely that coral reefs, or at least some kind of reef, will eventually adorn the earth's seas long after we destroy the ones we have now. The point is that it is likely to be so long after as to be moot from any human perspective. Les From caspar81 at gmail.com Sun Mar 12 13:28:35 2006 From: caspar81 at gmail.com (Caspar Henderson) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:28:35 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Subject: Hollywood, Coral, Ballet and Sausages Message-ID: Dear Michael 1. Thanks for this. I didn't write that [a polled sample of] the public were appalled by The Day After Tomorrow. Rather, that they were less inclined to believe that climate change was a real threat after watching the film. I should add that I cannot recall the source of this, so the example may need to be treated with caution. But if it's correct - and I think it is - it does serve the argument that too much exaggeration can undermine one's case. That being said, the film may have struck people at a subconscious level. (I applied the word appalled to the reaction of the Man on who the film Medicine Man is said to have been based to that film). 2. There are quite a few people who agree with your second point. They may well be right. As you likely know much better than me, there is also a constituency saying that reslience can be a feature of reef communities in some circumstances, and that one should not give up hope, (even if the hope is not much to hold on to in circumstances that can be pretty grim). I aim to explore both these positions, and others, and make the most honest assessment I can in a way that's accessible to non specialists. I hope this will be useful. 3. I have not read "Paradise Lost", and will do so as soon as I can get my hands on the full text. Caspar On 12/03/06, Michael Risk wrote: > > Hello Caspar. > > Some quick comments on your posting, and "sexy" spokespersons/outreach: > > 1. those who are appalled by "The Day After To-Morrow" don't understand > the science. They need to get up to speed on recent research on the > present status of thermohaline circulation in the Atlantic. The 1997 > Letter to Nature by Smith el al on Rapid Climate Change would be a good > place to start. In this case, Hollywood was guilty of collapsing into a > few days a process that will take a few years. Hardly surprising > behaviour by Hollywood. > > 2. if you plan a book on the extinction of reefs by climate change, you > had better hurry. Most of the damage has already been done. In fact, > future paleontologists-Martians?-will probably consider this as > analogous to the dinosaur dieoff. At first, the picture looked > simple-asteroid hits the earth, BLAM, dinosaurs all dead. Now we think > that the asteroid simply pushed over the edge a species complex that > was well into decline. > > 3. In "Paradise Lost", I discuss the failure of the coral reef research > community to come to grips with the problem. I cited lack of leadership > as one key element, and anyone who gets too close to the field would > agree. It's as they say about watching ballet and sausage-making: one > should not get too close. There are a couple of people behind whom I > feel most reef scientists would unite-Gene Shinn and Jim Hendee. I like > both men far too much to wish on them such a fate. > > Mike > -- Caspar Henderson Will coral reefs be the first ecosystem to be eliminated by global warming? Join the investigation at: http://coralstory.blogspot.com/ Grain of Sand Ltd +44 (0)7949 140 581 http://jebin08.blogspot.com/ "fatti non foste a viver come bruti, ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza" From bjatanasio at earthlink.net Sun Mar 12 16:23:41 2006 From: bjatanasio at earthlink.net (bjatanasio at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:41 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Outreach and engineering social change Message-ID: <380-220063012212341687@earthlink.net> Reefers, I just want to suggest a couple of practical actions that many of the researchers who use this list could go out and implement within the next few weeks and at a cost of about one day's work. Volunteer at your local school. I know that time can be the most precious resource, but as an educator I can attest to the effectiveness of these. pick one of NOAA's lessons on marine science and offer a training for teachers based on the lesson; your insights and experiences as a scientist and researcher can serve as a Delphic resource. go to a school with a significant under served population and volunteer to teach one of these lessons. identify biology or earth sciences faculty and offer to be their help desk on issues that fall under your interests. Also, for researchers: If you are a doing field work, blog about it. What are you seeing in the field? Link your blog to environmental, educational and news sites if possible. To return to another idea, I have been toying with the idea of a drama/comedy series based on my experiences managing a research station/field school in Panama. Anyone got good field stories to share? How about a collaboration? Best regards folks, Robert "BJ" Atanasio 146 Henry St San Francisco, CA 94114 }(|||)'> }(|||)'> }(|||)'> }(|||)'> }(|||)'> }(|||)'> }(|||)'> From dfenner at blueskynet.as Sun Mar 12 17:19:50 2006 From: dfenner at blueskynet.as (Douglas Fenner) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:19:50 -1100 Subject: [Coral-List] Goreau paper; resilience Message-ID: <006b01c64623$14e046c0$247f46ca@DOUGLASFENNER> The Goreau paper is indeed a classic and a great introduction to coral reefs; I used it in teaching many times and highly recommend it, its great to have it available again, many thanks!!! (interesting about the publication delay, didn't know that!) I wanted to just comment on the two paragraphs in the message about resilience. First, I don't think anyone suggests that coral reefs will always bounce back from any disturbance, no matter what we do. That's rediculous. If people produce a chronic disturbance that badly damages a reef, then is the reef going to bounce back after an acute disturbance? No way. But, if a reef is totally undisturbed by humans, will it bounce back from a natural disturbance? Almost surely. I live in American Samoa, on an island that is 1.5 million years old. Hurricanes hit the island an average of about once per 5 years. So it has had about 300,000 hurricanes during the island's lifetime, and the reefs are still here (about 28% coral cover at the moment). Guam usually has several hurricanes each year, and is old too. In one of my first trips to the Philippines, I saw a reef that had been hit by a hurricane a month earlier. One area had had coral growing on rocks small enough for the hurricane to move. The rolling rocks had crushed over 99.9% of the coral, everything was dead rubble. I came back a few years later, and couldn't find the spot, even though it was right in front of the dive shop. Then I realized it was an area now covered by about 80% live coral- a riot of gorgeous healthy coral of a wide varitey of species!!! Incredible, saw it with my own eyes. And the Philippines is not known for the world's most pristine reefs. In Cozumel, after Hurricane Gilbert, the second most powerful hurricane on record before it made landfall, I saw a temporary algae bloom that went away, and corals recovering, even though the reefs there had about 2000 dives a day, and this was after the Diadema dieoff. But then the reefs are in a park, in strong clear oceanic currents, and are swarming with fish including herbivores, and have very limited macroalgae, and bleaches little or not at all during mass bleachings in the Caribbean. It was one of the few resilient reefs left in the Caribbean. The claim that "Those touting "resilience" claim that we should do nothing at all and the reefs will recover all by themselves", " is itself pretty amazing, who said that, where is that quote from?? I can't believe anybody said that. Resilience people are saying that if chronic human impacts are kept to low enough levels, this will help reefs recover on their own from disturbances. Working to reduce chronic human impacts is certainly doing something, anybody who has tried it knows its darn hard work and most of the time we're not very successful. He is right we are saying that if a reef is healthy enough we don't need to do restoration after a disturbance. Nobody was helping American Samoa reefs after those 300,000 hurricanes, and the reefs recovered. But if we do nothing as Goreau is claiming resiliance people are saying, and just let the chronic impacts, such as overfishing, sedimentation, and nutrient imputs, go on and get worse, the reefs will very likely undergo a phase shift after a disturbance, just as I recounted for SW Madagascar, and which happened in Jamaica years ago. In fairness, when Tom's talking about "doing nothing", what he means is "doing nothing to actively restore the reef." He just didn't say it that way, and it sounds like resilience people are saying "don't do anything, just watch the reefs die." Which they aren't saying at all. Tom Goreau has a company with a patent for biorock, a form of active reef restoration using electric current. So what he's advocating is active restoration of reefs using his method. That's another option. We can use all the options we can get, its going to take everything we can do to make a dent in the ongoing loss of coral reefs. Personally, I tend to think we need to stop the things that are causing the problem in the first place, that would be the best solution. But as we all know that's a lot easier said than done, and we haven't managed so far very well, as the huge decline in coral cover in the Caribbean shows. Active reef restoration is definately needed in some places. -Doug Coral and Coral Reefs Thomas F. Goreau, Nora I. Goreau, Thomas J. Goreau This paper, still the classic introduction to the field, was written around 1970, but its publication was delayed by nearly 10 years because the publishers did not think coral reefs were of sufficient interest to the public. It was written at a time when large scale coral bleaching, coral diseases, and coral reef eutrophication were unknown, or confined to tiny areas with extreme local stresses. All of that changed in the decades after this paper was published, as coral reefs began dying on a large scale and the reefs described in this paper virtually vanished. Nevertheless this paper makes clear that even then the most experienced coral reef researchers were aware that coral reefs were exceptionally vulnerable systems and could be easily destroyed by human activities. We knew that they were highly sensitive, but did not yet realize just precisely how fragile they were. It was only in the following decade that we were able to quantitatively establish the precise tolerance limits of coral reefs to global warming and nutrient pollution and found they were the lowest of any ecosystem. The temperature limits have now been established as 1 degree C above normal for the duration of the warmest month to cause large scale bleaching, and a bit above that to cause serious mortality (see other papers on this web site). The nutrient limits above which massive overfertilization of the algae causes them to overgrow and kill the reef has been found to be 1.0 micromole per liter (0.014 ppm) of available nitrogen and 0.1 micromole per liter (0.003 ppm) of available phosophorus (see other papers on this web site). Along with the massive global outbreaks of new coral diseases that started after this paper was written (see papers posted on this web site), these new limits and the older scientific studies documented in this paper clearly refute the popular fad of "resilient reefs", which is now being touted by governments, international funding agencies, and large environmental organizations. This hypothesis claims that coral reefs will bounce back from any human caused stress all by themselves, no matter what we do, which cannot be supported by any long term observations. It serves as a smoke-screen designed to prevent action to reduce global, regional, and local stresses to reefs, and block efforts to restore damaged habitats. Those touting "resilience" claim that we "should do nothing at all and the reefs will recover all by themselves", are getting huge sums of funding from the US and Australian Governments and the World Bank. Their actions are directly responsible for speeding the rate of reef destruction and preventing action when it could have made a difference. A few corrections to the paper are needed. The subtitle should say that reefs are the most species rich ecosystem in the oceans, not on earth. This unfortunate error was made by the editors, we were always fully aware of the unique diversity of rain forest insects. The drawings and maps were done by the magazine staff and are very poor compared to the original drawings we submitted, which we will also post in due course. With these caveats and updates, this paper serves as an ideal introduction to corals and coral reefs when supplemented by the later papers on coral reef bleaching, diseases, eutrophication, and restoration posted on this web site. Thomas J. Goreau, PhD President Global Coral Reef Alliance 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge MA 02139 (Click below to download the paper in PDF form. (4.2MB) http://www.globalcoral.org/coral_and_coral_reefs_commentary.htm -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Pathology Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** _______________________________________________ From Khedges at khwisdom.com Sun Mar 12 09:05:52 2006 From: Khedges at khwisdom.com (Kathryn Hedges) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:52 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Than k you Message-ID: <44142AC0.6060803@khwisdom.com> I want to thank every one on the list serve for your help. I asked several of you questions on behalf of my student who was interested in coral bleaching. She became interested as a result of a NOAA/National Geographic sponsored trip to Hawaii last summer and has done research on the topic most of this year. Your list serve has provided a bounty of information and insight into the topic, suggested sites that we could explore further, and some of you responded to specific questions that we had. Thank you. Alessandra will be going to the Intel International Science Fair this year to present her project. I am sure the information on your list serve has been a great benefit. Thanks to all of you. Kathryn Hedges Science Teacher Campagna Academy Charter School Indiana. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Mar 12 11:24:32 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:24:32 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Subject: Hollywood In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Caspar. Some quick comments on your posting, and "sexy" spokespersons/outreach: 1. those who are appalled by "The Day After To-Morrow" don't understand the science. They need to get up to speed on recent research on the present status of thermohaline circulation in the Atlantic. The 1997 Letter to Nature by Smith el al on Rapid Climate Change would be a good place to start. In this case, Hollywood was guilty of collapsing into a few days a process that will take a few years. Hardly surprising behaviour by Hollywood. 2. if you plan a book on the extinction of reefs by climate change, you had better hurry. Most of the damage has already been done. In fact, future paleontologists-Martians?-will probably consider this as analogous to the dinosaur dieoff. At first, the picture looked simple-asteroid hits the earth, BLAM, dinosaurs all dead. Now we think that the asteroid simply pushed over the edge a species complex that was well into decline. 3. In "Paradise Lost", I discuss the failure of the coral reef research community to come to grips with the problem. I cited lack of leadership as one key element, and anyone who gets too close to the field would agree. It's as they say about watching ballet and sausage-making: one should not get too close. There are a couple of people behind whom I feel most reef scientists would unite-Gene Shinn and Jim Hendee. I like both men far too much to wish on them such a fate. Mike From Khedges at khwisdom.com Sun Mar 12 22:28:06 2006 From: Khedges at khwisdom.com (Kathryn Hedges) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:28:06 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Than k you In-Reply-To: <2b3eaac70603121816y692174d0k413b4f9597bdefc9@mail.gmail.com> References: <44142AC0.6060803@khwisdom.com> <2b3eaac70603121816y692174d0k413b4f9597bdefc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4414E6C6.5030601@khwisdom.com> Mike Last summer National Geographic and NOAA sponsored a coral research program that allowed 12 teachers and students to participate in c week of coral research at Coconut Island in Hawaii. I think I initially was sent an email telling me about it. Anyway I thought that it would be fun and told my students about the opportunity. I filled out part of the paper work and then left it because I needed to figure out who I could take. It is hard to find inner city students who can swim in the Midwest. I found that there were three students who could swim but only one with no obligations that prevented her from going. We finished the application and then talked about how great it would be but never really expected to be chosen. We thought that there would be many more qualified people who would want to go to Hawaii. When I was told that we would have a phone interview I thought that we might have a chance, and when we were told that we were chosen we were in shock. It was a wonderful trip. We did water testing, learned to identify fish, counted corals, learned photography, saw coral spawn, saw some historical fish ponds and tried the process of making a pond and learned a great deal. This trip opened my students eyes to the many possibilities that she never even dreamed about. After we came back home her interest in corals caused us to find the coral list serve. We have been reading entries for several months and it was one of the entries and a link to one of the NOAA map sites that gave her the idea for her project. She won second place in our regional fair and will go on to the Intel International Fair with her project on coral bleaching. She also entered three of her pictures that she took while in Hawaii into the art fair and won best in show. The program has made such a difference in her life. Michael Borger wrote: > Hello. Can you tell me the nature of the trip your student went on > and how she was able to get involved with it? > > Thank you, > Michael > > > On 3/12/06, *Kathryn Hedges* > wrote: > > I want to thank every one on the list serve for your help. I asked > several of you questions on behalf of my student who was > interested in > coral bleaching. She became interested as a result of a NOAA/National > Geographic sponsored trip to Hawaii last summer and has done > research on > the topic most of this year. Your list serve has provided a > bounty of > information and insight into the topic, suggested sites that we could > explore further, and some of you responded to specific questions > that we > had. Thank you. Alessandra will be going to the Intel International > Science Fair this year to present her project. I am sure the > information on your list serve has been a great benefit. > Thanks to all of you. > Kathryn Hedges > Science Teacher > Campagna Academy Charter School > Indiana. > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > -- > http://www.mikeseyes.com > http://tblogs.bootsnall.com/mb/ > > "Only the weak and the dull of the world knew where they were going, > and it was rarely worth the trip." -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From paulstampfl at eircom.net Mon Mar 13 07:29:06 2006 From: paulstampfl at eircom.net (Paul Stampfl) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:06 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! Message-ID: <20060313122907.9628C1793B@coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Dear Members of this in the last weeks very interesting List, Educate the kids! (And as by-product their parents) This is the most promising and probably only solution available to change the mind frame. Important is that we ?feed? the kids again and again (it?s like advertising) We should get the schools, the teachers and most importantly the kids involved. For a start; Let?s put together a workshop (there might be already enough suitable educational material out there) and visit the schools. I am sure there is one around your corner! One could set up a website adjusted to the needs of the kids and the syllabus and accompany the kids throughout the school year or school career. Kids like competitions; set out some prizes and let them compete for it in a quiz (within and between schools) Important is, that they have a contact / a face they can communicate with and (as a highlight) talk to them personally from time to time. We could search for a mascot (Nemo is probably already protected by some copyright law?. Run a campaign where the kids (schools) have the option to choose between different mascots, come up with a name, let them paint ? you get the point! This kind of effort would need some coordination and will therefore raise a range of issues. - What kind of administrative framework is required? Who e.g. would host the website? Is it necessary to set up a new (independent!) platform? What is about the Kids that are not blessed with high speed internet access? Sponsoring? etc. I am sure you have some input and answers. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts From Khedges at khwisdom.com Mon Mar 13 08:15:20 2006 From: Khedges at khwisdom.com (Kathryn Hedges) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:15:20 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Education Message-ID: <44157068.405@khwisdom.com> Education is very important. You would be surprised how many kid, parents too, in the Midwest who have no concept of an ocean. I took a couple of kids from Gary In to the science fair in Portland, Oregon a couple of years ago and we drove to the Pacific so that they could see it, touch it. They were overwhelmed by the vast expanse of water. I think they expected to see land on the other side. The Midwest with all of the agriculture effects the Gulf of Mexico and no one knows it. People just think they need to worry about the local rivers (which are also very polluted because of years of industrial waste and neglect). Letting one child learn about a concept and really understand can really help a cause because kids will listen to kids. If a kid comes back home telling about an experience others listen and learn a lot more than they do from text books and teachers telling about a subject. This year NOAA offered an award for a project in oceanography. I think it was just a certificate but it was at least something for students to look at and may generate some interest in the topic of oceanography in the future. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From deevon at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 13 10:30:02 2006 From: deevon at bellsouth.net (DeeVon Quirolo) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:30:02 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! In-Reply-To: <20060313122907.9628C1793B@coral.aoml.noaa.gov> References: <20060313122907.9628C1793B@coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060313102546.02763c38@bellsouth.net> Reef Relief and many other conservation organizations have been educating students and other targeted audiences for years. Our Coral Reef Teacher Guide by Wendy Weir is available online with complimentary slide shows, posters, and supporting materials. Our school program has been introducing 4th grade students in the Keys to the coral reef ecosystem for the past 10 years. However, that alone will not build the political will to upgrade inadequate sewage, stop agricultural runoff, etc. You need to get involved in the very unpopular strategy of policy guidance to make political change in the real world. And most likely, you will lose funding and support from the very government agencies responsible for protecting coral reefs for speaking up for coral reefs. DeeVon Quirolo, executive director, Reef Relief At 07:29 AM 3/13/2006, Paul Stampfl wrote: >Dear Members of this in the last weeks very interesting List, > >Educate the kids! (And as by-product their >parents) This is the most promising and probably >only solution available to change the mind frame. > >Important is that we ?feed? the kids again and again (it?s like advertising) > >We should get the schools, the teachers and most >importantly the kids involved. > >For a start; > >Let?s put together a workshop (there might be >already enough suitable educational material out >there) and visit the schools. I am sure there is one around your corner! > >One could set up a website adjusted to the needs >of the kids and the syllabus and accompany the >kids throughout the school year or school >career. Kids like competitions; set out some >prizes and let them compete for it in a quiz (within and between schools) > >Important is, that they have a contact / a face >they can communicate with and (as a highlight) >talk to them personally from time to time. > >We could search for a mascot (Nemo is probably >already protected by some copyright law?. Run a >campaign where the kids (schools) have the >option to choose between different mascots, come >up with a name, let them paint you get the point! > >This kind of effort would need some coordination >and will therefore raise a range of issues. - >What kind of administrative framework is >required? Who e.g. would host the website? Is it >necessary to set up a new (independent!) >platform? What is about the Kids that are not >blessed with high speed internet access? Sponsoring? etc. > > >I am sure you have some input and answers. > >Paul > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property >Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From tfelis at uni-bremen.de Mon Mar 13 11:02:12 2006 From: tfelis at uni-bremen.de (Thomas Felis) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:02:12 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Paleo Session - 6th European Coral Reef Conference 2006 Message-ID: <4415A594.3315.161BBC9@localhost> Dear colleagues, we would like to invite submission of abstracts for a thematic session on ?Paleoenvironment reconstructions, paleontology (Session 1)? to be held at The 6th European Coral Reef Conference 2006 European Meeting of the International Society for Reef Studies (ISRS) 19-22 September 2006 Bremen, Germany Co-chairs: Thomas Felis, Jens Zinke Coral reefs provide high-resolution archives of local environmental change at specific reef sites as well as large-scale variations in ocean-atmosphere dynamics (e.g., the ENSO phenomenon). Recent progress in proxy development and analytical techniques has enabled reconstructions of temperature, hydrologic balance/salinity, circulation, upwelling, terrestrial runoff and pH of the surface ocean at subdecadal to subseasonal resolution. Most of these proxy records are derived from massive annually-banded scleractinian corals, supported by records generated from sclerosponges and clams. Such paleoenvironmental records have a great potential to bring environmental data from recently established reef monitoring programmes and large-scale ocean observing systems into the long- term context of the last centuries. In addition to living reefs, well- dated fossil reefs and their paleogeographic distribution provide crucial information on paleoclimate and sea-level changes in the more distant geological past. Information on the response of reefs to past environmental changes under boundary conditions different from today provide an important benchmark in successfully assessing and predicting the future of coral reefs in a changing climate. We expect a stimulating session on all aspects of and latest developments in: * Environmental records in reef organisms * Fossil reefs and corals as archives * Paleoclimate and sea-level change * Paleogeographic distribution of reefs * Reefs in siliciclastic settings If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May 15th at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session [1] "Paleoenvironment reconstructions, paleontology". Please also forward copies of the abstract, indicating whether you would prefer an oral or poster presentation, to us at: tfelis at uni-bremen.de and jenszinke at falw.vu.nl We look forward to your participation. Regards Thomas Felis and Jens Zinke Dr Thomas Felis DFG-Research Center for Ocean Margins University of Bremen GEO Building, Klagenfurter Str. 28359 Bremen Germany e-mail: tfelis at uni-bremen.de phone: +49-(0)421-218-7769 fax: +49-(0)421-218-65505 http://www.rcom.marum.de/English/Dr._Thomas_Felis.html Dr Jens Zinke Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam FALW, Dept. Paleoclimatology and Paleoecology De Boelelaan 1085 1081 HV Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel. 0031 20 598 73 27 Fax. 0031 20 598 99 41 email: jenszinke at falw.vu.nl http://sheba.geo.vu.nl/~palmorph/ From reiag at hotmail.com Mon Mar 13 11:50:17 2006 From: reiag at hotmail.com (Reia Guppy) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:50:17 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Abstracts requested for Bremen 2006 - Stress responses in corals Message-ID: I'm posting this on behalf of John Bythell: Dear Coral-List, The organisers of the session ?Stress responses in corals? at the ISRS meeting in Bremen (Sept 19-22nd 2006) would like to invite submission of abstracts for consideration as part of this session. The above session welcomes papers on stress responses of corals at the organism, cell and molecular levels. In particular we would encourage papers that improve our understanding of disease processes in corals; that further our knowledge of the bleaching response and which clarify the interactions between bleaching and disease. If you are interested in participating in this session please submit your abstract by May 15 at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on ?Registration?, go to ?Abstract Submission? and assign your abstract to session 10 ? Stress responses in corals? and send a copy to both John Bythell at j.c.bythell at ncl.ac.uk and Barbara Brown at ProfBarbaraBrown at aol.com. We look forward to your participation and please let us know if we can be of further assistance. Best regards and looking forward to seeing you in Bremen. John Bythell Barbara Brown Reia Guppy Division of Biology Ridley Building University of Newcastle Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 7RU, U.K. Tel: +44 (0) 191 222 6664 Fax: +44 (0) 191 222 5229 From sjoshi at psu.edu Mon Mar 13 12:22:37 2006 From: sjoshi at psu.edu (Sanjay Joshi) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:22:37 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Spectral Absorption Data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060313122119.038cf308@psu.edu> Hi, I am looking for some data on the spectral absorption curves for different coral. is such data available anywhere ? If so, where can I find it. Thanks, sanjay. =================================================================== Dr. Sanjay Joshi, Ph.D. Professor of Industrial & Manufacturing Engineering Penn State University, University Park, PA 16802. Phone: 814-865-2108 From cindy177 at charter.net Mon Mar 13 19:53:34 2006 From: cindy177 at charter.net (cindy177 at charter.net) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:53:34 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Education and Hollywood Message-ID: <20994295.1142297614679.JavaMail.root@fepweb06> As a scientific illustrator and writer backgrounds in earth/marine science and education, I am involved in the development of science educational materials for K-12-college students and the lay public (geology and coral reef ecology). In education we talk about different kinds of learning styles, and the need to present subject matter in as many ways as possible in order to reach all types of learners. Educating us (the public) about coral reef decline or any other important issue needs as many approaches as possible: Inundate us with entertaining/educational movies and TV programs, colorful books and articles in print - even video games; integrate the subject matter all through the K-12 curriculum (and mandate it as part of the national educational standards), expand outreach activities - and cultivate supportive public policy makers. As an example of what can be done in schools, current educational reform encourages "authentic" (real life) learning and assessment using multidisciplinary, problem-based approaches. Coral reef issues offer perfect opportunities for such learning. In 1999, I wrote, illustrated, and published GROUPER MOON - a children's science adventure for use in the classroom - fiction, with accurate science that addresses the problems of over-fishing and coral reef decline. My approach to the story was to create a lovable fish character (Cooper the Grouper) - one with whom kids could relate and want to take care of (who could not love a Nassau grouper?) - but through the boy character, the story also addresses human concerns of being able "to have our fish and eat it, too." Stan Waterman wrote the foreword. (For more details, see www.aureliapress.com or amazon.com) My plan was to have teachers field test the book in their classrooms to see how it might work with the curriculum; next, use their feedback to develop formal lesson plans/activity guides and assessments to go with the book; then tweak and reprint the book, if necessary - and, finally, market it as a package. Soon after the book was printed, family matters sidetracked me for several years, so I am just now in the curriculum development stage. (I do this in my spare time between contracts.) Teacher and student response to the book has been very positive. Even without any current marketing, orders for classroom sets of books stagger in. Occasionally I am surprised by a package of art and letters from a classroom of kids who ask "is it really true?" and how they think the story should be made into a movie (really!) - actually, adult readers have said the same thing, but I've never done a screenplay before. But if Hollywood were to get involved with making ANY kind of coral reef movie, how about doing so with plans to develop educational materials to go with it? (BTW, are there currently materials to use with the IMAX production?) There is already a lot of good stuff out there, but where is it all, and how can we avoid unnecessary duplication? I would suggest organizing a coordinated, multidisciplinary approach to establish specific goals for public education. Take an inventory of what is already being done, who is doing it, and decide how these isolated projects can fit into a collective effort - then figure out where the holes are, and go from there. Please don't hesitate to let me know how I can help. Best regards, Cindy Shaw 177 Kranichwood Street Richland, WA 99352 509 627 3839 phone 509 627 0703 fax cindyshaw177 at hotmail.com From iamshanky15 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 13 20:40:34 2006 From: iamshanky15 at yahoo.com (shashank Keshavmurthy) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:40:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] whole coral C:N ratio Message-ID: <20060314014034.23370.qmail@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Researchers Can anybody enlighten me on the CN ratio of intact coral piece..has anyone carried out CN analysis on a whole coral piece?...I know that generally the CN ratio of zooxanthellae and coral tissue is 7 and 6 (approximate).....but what is the CN ratio of a coral piece..say 1cm long (in case of Acropora sp.).... What happens to CN ratio when stressed....I believe it will increase (when I read the literature on the CN ratios in palnktons etc)...but in case of corals, as the stress effect increase...the Carbon content of the tissue start decreasing ??...(say from completely healthy tissue to partially bleached to completely bleached tissue).... but in alternate situation..say nutrient enriched (in form of Nitrogen)...then CN ratio will decrease (in case of zooxanthellae CN ratio)...but will that show when we measure CN ratio of intact whole coral piece?......i am confused here.... becasue when we measeure CN ratio of zooxanthellae and coral tissue seperately..it gives the individual CN ratios...but, if one measures CN ratio of a intact coral piece....then It should give the idea about the coral health status..is it? am I right or am i wrong? Thanks for listening to me...and I welcome any answers....I still have to learn many things in coral-algal physiology!!!!!! Best Regards Shashank "the role of infinitely small in nature is infinitely large"-Louis Pasteur Keshavmurthy Shashank phD candidate Kochi University, Graduate School of Kuroshio Science Laboratory of Environmental Conservation Otsu 200, Monobe, Nankoku-shi 783-8502, Kochi, Japan alt. id: shashank at cc.kochi-u.ac.jp phone: 81 090 8285 9012 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From personal at hellenfaus.com Mon Mar 13 18:42:16 2006 From: personal at hellenfaus.com (Hellen Faus ) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:42:16 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009201c646f7$c32de870$86c68a53@kivuca> Hi All... I do not participate a lot, as I am a total novell and don't know anything, but i read you with interest and this current issue actually concerns me a lot.... How to reach the most to get them be aware of the importance of marine life and coral in its extent?? I'm now working to run a web site in Spanish that gets all the information about coral for the general public. - By the way, if any of you has any suggestion, or agrees on the use of translations of your web information, just tell me - In this same sense I'm nowadays using this subjet in a course of didactic applications of TIC, and I've realized in the PPS and word docs given to my mates (all adults) that their first impression is just the same: "wuau... I did not know how important was it!!" For us is not easy, Spain is a country surrounded by sea, but not with coral reefs, and it sounds as very far from here, a paradise of sand and palms where most will never go... so the point has to be given on how to involve people on the basis that we all have our relevance, that "everything" goes to the sea (whichever it is), that anyone can do simple things to help without having to live on the coast of a pretty coral reef and the most important, having a minimum of knowledge of what's happening here. Of course, a tv platform would be excellent, but I don't think it is so easy to reach, and if so, my fear would be its mis-use and so the conversion of a good cause into another "market business" So, the education and formation is the main thing. Kids and schools, in first place... their enthusiasm -if we get it!- would get home, by sure. And anybody else... universities, work centers, cultural associations... a big effort in talks, shows and so on... Again, I think for Spain it will be more difficult... Our corals are not "so pretty", (they are, of course, but they are not such a colourful and not seen at simple sight) much deeper and when they suffer, as some years ago in the Mediterranean coast when they died due to a extrange current, but down to 40 meters deept, just very few knew about, nor even took any relevance :-( What can we do? And concretelly, any ideas for this place in Europe?? -----Mensaje original----- De: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] En nombre de coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Enviado el: lunes, 13 de marzo de 2006 18:00 Para: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Asunto: Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov You can reach the person managing the list at coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Education is the key! (Paul Stampfl) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:06 +0000 From: "Paul Stampfl" Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <20060313122907.9628C1793B at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Members of this in the last weeks very interesting List, Educate the kids! (And as by-product their parents) This is the most promising and probably only solution available to change the mind frame. Important is that we feed the kids again and again (its like advertising) We should get the schools, the teachers and most importantly the kids involved. For a start; Lets put together a workshop (there might be already enough suitable educational material out there) and visit the schools. I am sure there is one around your corner! One could set up a website adjusted to the needs of the kids and the syllabus and accompany the kids throughout the school year or school career. Kids like competitions; set out some prizes and let them compete for it in a quiz (within and between schools) Important is, that they have a contact / a face they can communicate with and (as a highlight) talk to them personally from time to time. We could search for a mascot (Nemo is probably already protected by some copyright law. Run a campaign where the kids (schools) have the option to choose between different mascots, come up with a name, let them paint  you get the point! This kind of effort would need some coordination and will therefore raise a range of issues. - What kind of administrative framework is required? Who e.g. would host the website? Is it necessary to set up a new (independent!) platform? What is about the Kids that are not blessed with high speed internet access? Sponsoring? etc. I am sure you have some input and answers. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 ****************************************** From pnicoll at smhall.org Tue Mar 14 02:23:30 2006 From: pnicoll at smhall.org (Patti Nicoll) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:23:30 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! Message-ID: As a teacher, I agree that education is the key. Although interaction of scientists with the public is important, it is also important to get students from different areas of the world dialoguing about what is happening in their area. Students respond very well to their peers. The students in coastal areas, provided they have a good teacher, will generally know a fair deal about threats to their region. Students in land-locked areas could benefit, and may just listen, to an exchange of information. The best way probably to do this is through web-chats, preferably including video (password protected connection). Unfortunately students today, due to the speediness of the world wide web, are not very patient when it comes to snail mail, but if it is the only option then it may still work. Once contact is made though, students and classes could exchange materials, perhaps sending care packages illustrating what the key components of their habitats are. The land-locked students could send information about their habitats as well, validating their contributions to the dialogue and trying to bridge connections between the two. I am on a crazy brainstorm right now and it is too late at night. If anyone has any further suggestions, please respond! Thanks, Patti From dfenner at blueskynet.as Tue Mar 14 04:56:42 2006 From: dfenner at blueskynet.as (Douglas Fenner) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:56:42 -1100 Subject: [Coral-List] one danger in MPA's and resilience Message-ID: <00b301c6474d$9984d0f0$3b7f46ca@DOUGLASFENNER> Good point, James. Several people have pointed out that an MPA can only control what people do in the MPA, they can't control global warming, and only a reserve that included the entire watershed or catchment could have any way to control the sediment and nutrients that come into the MPA. An MPA is a marvelous tool, but if politicians, the public, or reef workers think it solves all the problems, we are in deeper trouble than we realize. Bleaching can easily kill all the coral in the finest MPA, I bet it did that in 1998 in several places. Same goes for resilience, which is another great tool. But if politicians think that resilience programs will take care of reefs even if we have bleaching, well, we can kiss our reefs goodby. The fastest recovering reefs in the world will take a minimum of 5 years to have good coral cover after mass death from bleaching. Some will take 10 years, I bet most will take more. But the best predictions are that it won't be too long before we have annual summer bleaching, and then annual mass deaths. No coral reef can recover in one year, none. Even if reefs had 10 years, they will be missing the old corals, the huge massive Porites, and a bunch of others. The reefs would be greatly altered. But we are unlikely to have that luxury, most likely most all will be dead. We can't afford to let anyone, politicians or otherwise, use resiliency programs as an excuse to let greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated. I'm not saying that I've heard people use that as an excuse, I just think we'd better be ready to not let anyone get away with it. It is likely that corals and zooxanthellae can do some adapting. How fast, we don't know. Good chance not fast enough. Is that a risk we're willing to take? Even if a few corals can adapt fast enough, the reefs will be radically altered, leaving them open for all kinds of unforeseen problems. Its a risk we can't afford to take. The average Frenchman produces a third the greenhouse gases that Americans and Australians produce (on a per capita basis). France is a developed country. I think that shows we can reduce greenhouse gas production radically, without destroying our economies. The average Chinese produces one sixth the greenhouse gases the average American produces. Do we have the right to tell them that no, they can't produce as much greenhouse gases as we do, they can't develop, they must stay in poverty, so we can keep the total greenhouse gas production down while Americans waste energy in SUV's and produce six times as much? I think not. Americans have to reduce greenhouse gas production drastically, and China (and India) have to figure out how to develop without producing as much as the states. I suspect we could do it if we wanted to and put our minds to it. -Doug From trudivaningen at yahoo.com Tue Mar 14 07:10:15 2006 From: trudivaningen at yahoo.com (Trudi van Ingen) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:10:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Education is not the only key! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060313102546.02763c38@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20060314121015.19630.qmail@web50311.mail.yahoo.com> I fully agree with DeeVon Quirolo that more is needed than only education. Although education and awareness about the importance of coral reefs is important, the more the better, other actions need to be taken as well. I have worked in a coastal area in Africa where fishers used dynamite. At the design of the project it was thought that education and awareness of the villagers would be the solution, but the reality was far more complicated. The villagers of the coastal communities did not need to be educated because they appeared to be perfectly aware of the importance of the coral reefs for their fisheries. The ones that needed to be educated were moreover the local and national authorities responsible for policies and law enforcement. They needed to see the importance of the coral reefs for the livelihoods of the coastal communities before they took the measures needed (also after a lot of lobbying, negotiation, etc.). Trudi van Ingen PS Education and awareness stays important to influence the public opinion, which is a powerful tool for influencing policy makers. --- DeeVon Quirolo wrote: > Reef Relief and many other conservation > organizations have been educating students and > other targeted audiences for years. Our Coral > Reef Teacher Guide by Wendy Weir is available > online with complimentary slide shows, posters, > and supporting materials. Our school program has > been introducing 4th grade students in the Keys > to the coral reef ecosystem for the past 10 > years. However, that alone will not build the > political will to upgrade inadequate sewage, stop > agricultural runoff, etc. You need to get > involved in the very unpopular strategy of policy > guidance to make political change in the real > world. And most likely, you will lose funding > and support from the very government agencies > responsible for protecting coral reefs for speaking up > for coral reefs. > > DeeVon Quirolo, executive director, Reef Relief > > At 07:29 AM 3/13/2006, Paul Stampfl wrote: > > >Dear Members of this in the last weeks very interesting > List, > > > >Educate the kids! (And as by-product their > >parents) This is the most promising and probably > >only solution available to change the mind frame. > > > >Important is that we ?feed? the kids again and again > (it?s like advertising) > > > >We should get the schools, the teachers and most > >importantly the kids involved. > > > >For a start; > > > >Let?s put together a workshop (there might be > >already enough suitable educational material out > >there) and visit the schools. I am sure there is one > around your corner! > > > >One could set up a website adjusted to the needs > >of the kids and the syllabus and accompany the > >kids throughout the school year or school > >career. Kids like competitions; set out some > >prizes and let them compete for it in a quiz (within and > between schools) > > > >Important is, that they have a contact / a face > >they can communicate with and (as a highlight) > >talk to them personally from time to time. > > > >We could search for a mascot (Nemo is probably > >already protected by some copyright law?. Run a > >campaign where the kids (schools) have the > >option to choose between different mascots, come > >up with a name, let them paint you get the point! > > > >This kind of effort would need some coordination > >and will therefore raise a range of issues. - > >What kind of administrative framework is > >required? Who e.g. would host the website? Is it > >necessary to set up a new (independent!) > >platform? What is about the Kids that are not > >blessed with high speed internet access? Sponsoring? > etc. > > > > > >I am sure you have some input and answers. > > > >Paul > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > >Sign up for email alerts now > http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Coral-List mailing list > >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Khedges at khwisdom.com Tue Mar 14 08:09:24 2006 From: Khedges at khwisdom.com (Kathryn Hedges) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:09:24 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4416C084.7020205@khwisdom.com> One of the big problems with working with very poor students, particularly minority students in urban environments is that they are still far behind technologically. Few of my students have computers at home, the library is not a very usefully option because time is limited to 20 minutes and if you have watched a person who is not comfortable with computer technology you will know they waste a lot of time figuring out what to do. I know that I am not offering solutions but if we are aware of problems maybe we can figure out ways to work around them. NOAA was instrumental in my student's life changing experience. They work with many students - a few at a time- and those few return home to tell their friends and relatives. The first hand accounts are well received. After our trip to Hawaii I was stopped on the street, in the grocery store, and at church by people who heard about our experience and who wanted to know more. Students at our school were excited to learn more from Alessandra. Patti Nicoll wrote: >As a teacher, I agree that education is the key. Although interaction of scientists with the public is important, it is also important to get students from different areas of the world dialoguing about what is happening in their area. Students respond very well to their peers. The students in coastal areas, provided they have a good teacher, will generally know a fair deal about threats to their region. Students in land-locked areas could benefit, and may just listen, to an exchange of information. The best way probably to do this is through web-chats, preferably including video (password protected connection). Unfortunately students today, due to the speediness of the world wide web, are not very patient when it comes to snail mail, but if it is the only option then it may still work. Once contact is made though, students and classes could exchange materials, perhaps sending care packages illustrating what the key components of their habitats are. The land-locked students co > uld send information about their habitats as well, validating their contributions to the dialogue and trying to bridge connections between the two. I am on a crazy brainstorm right now and it is too late at night. If anyone has any further suggestions, please respond! >Thanks, >Patti >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From cnidaria at earthlink.net Tue Mar 14 10:33:00 2006 From: cnidaria at earthlink.net (James M. Cervino) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:33:00 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] MPAs Message-ID: Thanks Doug and Les for your comments, This is just an example of no matter how many MPAs are placed in the tropics global warming and abnormal SSTs will continue destroy the skin residing on the surfaces of coral skeletons. I recently went to a presentation in the Bahamas (Abacos) focusing on the implementation of an MPA. We found it shocking that this plan never addressed the protection of the component of the habitat that houses the fishes in the MPA plan; the corals. The corals will not be protected; it's as simple as that. Never once during this 2hr presentation did we see any safeguards to protect the reef from nutrient pollution and dredging as a result of a newly designed golf course that will reside very close to the MPA. So, forget about global warming, we cannot even step up to the plate and fight local developers let alone the controlling the new energy policy put together by the Cheney administration regarding the control of heat trapping emissions. Look what MPAs have done for the GBR: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060314/sc_nm/environment_coral_bleaching_dc Good point, James. Several people have pointed out that an MPA can only control what people do in the MPA, they can't control global warming, and only a reserve that included the entire watershed or catchment could have any way to control the sediment and nutrients that come into the MPA. An MPA is a marvelous tool, but if politicians, the public, or reef workers think it solves all the problems, we are in deeper trouble than we realize. Bleaching can easily kill all the coral in the finest MPA, I bet it did that in 1998 in several places. Same goes for resilience, which is another great tool. But if politicians think that resilience programs will take care of reefs even if we have bleaching, well, we can kiss our reefs goodby. The fastest recovering reefs in the world will take a minimum of 5 years to have good coral cover after mass death from bleaching. Some will take 10 years, I bet most will take more. But the best predictions are that it won't be too long before we have annual summer bleaching, and then annual mass deaths. No coral reef can recover in one year, none. Even if reefs had 10 years, they will be missing the old corals, the huge massive Porites, and a bunch of others. The reefs would be greatly altered. But we are unlikely to have that luxury, most likely most all will be dead. We can't afford to let anyone, politicians or otherwise, use resiliency programs as an excuse to let greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated. I'm not saying that I've heard people use that as an excuse, I just think we'd better be ready to not let anyone get away with it. It is likely that corals and zooxanthellae can do some adapting. How fast, we don't know. Good chance not fast enough. Is that a risk we're willing to take? Even if a few corals can adapt fast enough, the reefs will be radically altered, leaving them open for all kinds of unforeseen problems. Its a risk we can't afford to take. The average Frenchman produces a third the greenhouse gases that Americans and Australians produce (on a per capita basis). France is a developed country. I think that shows we can reduce greenhouse gas production radically, without destroying our economies. The average Chinese produces one sixth the greenhouse gases the average American produces. Do we have the right to tell them that no, they can't produce as much greenhouse gases as we do, they can't develop, they must stay in poverty, so we can keep the total greenhouse gas production down while Americans waste energy in SUV's and produce six times as much? I think not. Americans have to reduce greenhouse gas production drastically, and China (and India) have to figure out how to develop without producing as much as the states. I suspect we could do it if we wanted to and put our minds to it. -Doug -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Pathology Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** From smiller at gate.net Tue Mar 14 11:00:04 2006 From: smiller at gate.net (Steven Miller) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:00:04 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] additional notes on communication Message-ID: <4416E884.50609@gate.net> Responding in no particular order to some of the many e-mails posted regarding the sexy scientist posting? and none of this is original, it?s painfully obvious but I will say it anyway. Conventional media products are still needed, but they are not sufficient. The problems we face took a long time to get bad so they are going to take a long time to fix. The Attenborough model preaches to the choir, as do all PBS-like products. Such efforts are needed, but they?re not sufficient. Talking Hollywood heads (famous actors getting involved) are not what we need, but they can sometimes help. Education is big part of the solution, but we?ve been saying that for generations. Working at the local level doing dozens of different things is part of the solution. The original post was essentially about communication and the emphasis on sex that was highlighted in a lot of emails was only a small part of what I was trying to say. Borrowing from my friend Randy Olson and his Hollywood experience, arguing better (using our heads) is one of several ways to reach people. You can also reach people by affecting their hearts, guts, and below the belt (sex). Coral reef scientists are good with the head stuff, not so good with the other three. Obviously, the problem goes beyond coral reefs. To have any chance of success at the national level environmentalism must become a social movement like it was in the 1960s and 1970s. Social movements need a thousand local leaders and a few at the national level. Thus, we need to do what we can to elevate the best of our communicators so they get a chance to do what they do best for the largest possible audience. Relevant are some examples of Dr. Olson?s work, which can be found at www.shiftingbaselines.org. I especially encourage you to check out: The Tiny Fish PSA The No Seafood Grill short film The Senate Hearing on Coral Bleaching short film The Rotten Jellyfish Awards And there is serious stuff at the site too: Pristine? The Shifting Baselines Slideshow Shifting Baselines in the Surf The Roundtable Video (one of the first SB serious efforts) Mark Dowie video: Empowering the Grassroots And there is much more. Not everything totally works. Use what you like (it's free). Maybe think about getting out of your head once in awhile. It's not easy, but your students and audiences will respond in amazing ways if you can touch there hearts, or if you go for a gut reaction. The sex stuff is probably better left to the experts - or hottie PhDs. Best regards. Steven From erik at notesfromtheroad.com Tue Mar 14 12:49:15 2006 From: erik at notesfromtheroad.com (Erik Gauger) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:49:15 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: FW: Coral Reef goes to CourtTo everybody interested in the Guana Cay golf course development, I just wanted to give you all an update. Discovery Land Company, a California golf development company, is building a dastardly golf course and marina on Guana Cay, a small islet in the Northern Bahamas. Currently, all development potentially dangerous to the coral reef is still halted as a judge in the Bahamas Supreme Court deliberates over the fate of the island, its reef and mangroves. I am writing because I know several of you are interested in how the politics of saving coral reefs can play out. This is an extremely unusual case, because the Prime Minister of a country and a foreign developer are being held accountable to the environment in a court of law. It is a case that more conservationists should follow, as hopefully in the end the precedent is that more countries will tie sustainability to the court system when public outcry fails. Hopefully, all of you will see this case as a potential precedent for saving coral reefs in your own countries and regions. However, the way news and public relations works in small island communities is incredibly strange. In this case, Discovery Land Company wrote a press release to the major newspapers in the Bahamas just yesterday . Both the Bahama Journal and the Nassau Guardian printed the press release as if it were straight news. Incredibly, the Bahama Journal printed this statement: "Save Guana Cay protesters are a conspiracy of liars feigning concern for the environment to further their own selfish economic motives." Now, we know that hundreds of you back the science of the Guana Cay locals. We also know that the Sierra Club, Global Coral, Greenpeace, Mangrove Action Network, Global Response and others back the position of the locals. Are all of us liars with selfish motives? Additionally, Mike Risk, a coral reef ecologist, conducted an assessment of Discovery Land Company's EIA and believes the developer will destroy the reef in a matter of years. James Cervino and field assistants did additional testing of the corals and examined the Discovery Land Company's plan. His research also indicates this plan is dangerous to Guana Cay's coral environment. Despite all this, it is incredible how the media is still able to say that all of us who have genuine concerns about Guana Cay are 'a conspiracy of liars...' The Sierra Club and other groups have repeatedly asked the developer to address various environmental deficiencies - they have never done so. Despite this, how can they get something like that published as if it were true? The San Francisco Chronicle, after visiting Guana Cay, wrote to me and said, "The developers had told me that it was only a small minority of people on the island who oppose the project, but I didn't find that to be true. I talked with a lot of people, stopping people randomly as I moved around the island, and nearly all of them were opposed." Despite one of the largest newspapers in the world finding this claim to be totally false, Discovery Land Company is able to continually tell us otherwise - and people believe it. In an email, Livingston Marshall, representing the developer, said that there were only two people in the world that are opposed the development. If you visit Guana Cay, you will find opposition to the project to be about 98% Despite this, Discovery Land Company writes in their press release that it is an "extremely small number of Guana Cay residents" who oppose the development. The developer's press release stated that the people who oppose the development are "propagating false and erroneous information." But after hundreds of conversations with coral reef ecologists and conservationists, I understand the Guana Cay locals' position to be the consensus position among coral reef ecologists - and that's a rare statement to make! It would seem that the developer would have a high burden of proof to argue their way out of all of this. But Kathleen Sullivan-Sealey and others paid by the developer, have made no public statements attempting to debate the scientific consensus. How are they able to get away with this, and still get a press release like that published? Why is it so difficult for genuine reef conservation to persevere against public relations campaigns? Erik Gauger http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/guana.htm current press on the subject is available here: http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/bakers_bay_press.html The locals website is here: http://www.saveguanacayreef.com/ From Louis.Florit at noaa.gov Tue Mar 14 13:17:29 2006 From: Louis.Florit at noaa.gov (Louis Florit) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:17:29 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Bleaching in the News : Australia's Great Barrier Reef- Keppel Islands bleaching... Message-ID: <441708B9.8020703@noaa.gov> Hello Listers; ran into these links, the GBR article is new, the St.Croix one is from May of last year, I thought they may be of interest. I hope its not a repost. Kind regards, Louis ---- Part of Great Barrier Reef now ?a white desert? New bleaching follows major event last year in Caribbean http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11821539/ New bleaching around the Keppel Islands of Australia's Great Barrier Reef include this stand of staghorn corals, photographed on Feb. 22. ?My estimate is in the vicinity of 95 to 98 percent of the coral is bleached in the Keppels,? said Berkelmans from the Australian Institute of Marine Science. ---- Sewage killing reefs around Virgin Islands Study shows disease rate, book highlights stresses and global problem http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7994987/ 30 percent infection rate In the St. Croix town of Frederiksted, where untreated sewage was regularly released during the study that started in 2001, nearly 30 percent of coral was infected with two main coral diseases ? black-band and white plague, which can kill a foot-long coral colony in a week. Three miles north in Butler Bay, where no sewage was released, only three or four percent was infected, the study said. Only about 10 percent of sewage in the Caribbean and Central America is treated before being discharged into the sea, according to the scientists. --- -- Louis Florit, Research Associate University of Miami/CIMAS NOAA/Atlantic Oceanographic Meteorological Laboratory 4301 Rickenbacker Causeway Miami, FL 33149 Phone: (305) 361-4445 From Tracy.Gill at noaa.gov Tue Mar 14 13:15:14 2006 From: Tracy.Gill at noaa.gov (Tracy Gill) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:15:14 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] NOAA lesson plans on marine topics Message-ID: <44170832.3080800@noaa.gov> FYI, speaking of education, high school teachers might like these NOAA lesson plans on a variety of marine topics (e.g., Coral Reef Conservation, Coastal Ecosystem Science, Marine Protected Areas) http://www.nos.noaa.gov/education/classroom/welcome.html -Tracy Gill From personal at hellenfaus.com Tue Mar 14 09:19:55 2006 From: personal at hellenfaus.com (Hellen Faus ) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:19:55 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Cindy ' book... great!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011501c64772$5e32cff0$86c68a53@kivuca> Cindy, your experience and idea of the book is really interesting. Do you have it translated into Spanish? Do you think it could be interesting to think about it if it isn't? Could you post or send me an image of an inner page to have a look? This kind of iniciatives are what I think are very usefull... concientating teachers and parents, and having the complicity of kids would do a great job. It is one of my main ideas of starting up with all this... schools and all this teaching resources. By the way, and thanks to the film "Nemo" I now remember how my niece, 7 years old, when I show her my uw pictures, gets very excited recognizing some of her idols in the "real world"... and she can identify more of what I thought she'd do!!! This is what encourages me in this way. Buen azul a todos - Cheers. Hellen -----Mensaje original----- De: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] En nombre de coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Enviado el: martes, 14 de marzo de 2006 3:39 Para: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Asunto: Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 21 Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov You can reach the person managing the list at coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Education (Kathryn Hedges) 2. Re: Education is the key! (DeeVon Quirolo) 3. Paleo Session - 6th European Coral Reef Conference 2006 (Thomas Felis) 4. Abstracts requested for Bremen 2006 - Stress responses in corals (Reia Guppy) 5. Coral Spectral Absorption Data (Sanjay Joshi) 6. Education and Hollywood (cindy177 at charter.net) 7. whole coral C:N ratio (shashank Keshavmurthy) 8. Re: Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 (Hellen Faus ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:15:20 -0600 From: Kathryn Hedges Subject: [Coral-List] Education To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" Message-ID: <44157068.405 at khwisdom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Education is very important. You would be surprised how many kid, parents too, in the Midwest who have no concept of an ocean. I took a couple of kids from Gary In to the science fair in Portland, Oregon a couple of years ago and we drove to the Pacific so that they could see it, touch it. They were overwhelmed by the vast expanse of water. I think they expected to see land on the other side. The Midwest with all of the agriculture effects the Gulf of Mexico and no one knows it. People just think they need to worry about the local rivers (which are also very polluted because of years of industrial waste and neglect). Letting one child learn about a concept and really understand can really help a cause because kids will listen to kids. If a kid comes back home telling about an experience others listen and learn a lot more than they do from text books and teachers telling about a subject. This year NOAA offered an award for a project in oceanography. I think it was just a certificate but it was at least something for students to look at and may generate some interest in the topic of oceanography in the future. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:30:02 -0500 From: DeeVon Quirolo Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Education is the key! To: "Paul Stampfl" , coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060313102546.02763c38 at bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Reef Relief and many other conservation organizations have been educating students and other targeted audiences for years. Our Coral Reef Teacher Guide by Wendy Weir is available online with complimentary slide shows, posters, and supporting materials. Our school program has been introducing 4th grade students in the Keys to the coral reef ecosystem for the past 10 years. However, that alone will not build the political will to upgrade inadequate sewage, stop agricultural runoff, etc. You need to get involved in the very unpopular strategy of policy guidance to make political change in the real world. And most likely, you will lose funding and support from the very government agencies responsible for protecting coral reefs for speaking up for coral reefs. DeeVon Quirolo, executive director, Reef Relief At 07:29 AM 3/13/2006, Paul Stampfl wrote: >Dear Members of this in the last weeks very interesting List, > >Educate the kids! (And as by-product their >parents) This is the most promising and probably >only solution available to change the mind frame. > >Important is that we ?feed? the kids again and again (it?s like advertising) > >We should get the schools, the teachers and most >importantly the kids involved. > >For a start; > >Let?s put together a workshop (there might be >already enough suitable educational material out >there) and visit the schools. I am sure there is one around your corner! > >One could set up a website adjusted to the needs >of the kids and the syllabus and accompany the >kids throughout the school year or school >career. Kids like competitions; set out some >prizes and let them compete for it in a quiz (within and between schools) > >Important is, that they have a contact / a face >they can communicate with and (as a highlight) >talk to them personally from time to time. > >We could search for a mascot (Nemo is probably >already protected by some copyright law?. Run a >campaign where the kids (schools) have the >option to choose between different mascots, come >up with a name, let them paint ? you get the point! > >This kind of effort would need some coordination >and will therefore raise a range of issues. - >What kind of administrative framework is >required? Who e.g. would host the website? Is it >necessary to set up a new (independent!) >platform? What is about the Kids that are not >blessed with high speed internet access? Sponsoring? etc. > > >I am sure you have some input and answers. > >Paul > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property >Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:02:12 +0100 From: "Thomas Felis" Subject: [Coral-List] Paleo Session - 6th European Coral Reef Conference 2006 To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <4415A594.3315.161BBC9 at localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear colleagues, we would like to invite submission of abstracts for a thematic session on ?Paleoenvironment reconstructions, paleontology (Session 1)? to be held at The 6th European Coral Reef Conference 2006 European Meeting of the International Society for Reef Studies (ISRS) 19-22 September 2006 Bremen, Germany Co-chairs: Thomas Felis, Jens Zinke Coral reefs provide high-resolution archives of local environmental change at specific reef sites as well as large-scale variations in ocean-atmosphere dynamics (e.g., the ENSO phenomenon). Recent progress in proxy development and analytical techniques has enabled reconstructions of temperature, hydrologic balance/salinity, circulation, upwelling, terrestrial runoff and pH of the surface ocean at subdecadal to subseasonal resolution. Most of these proxy records are derived from massive annually-banded scleractinian corals, supported by records generated from sclerosponges and clams. Such paleoenvironmental records have a great potential to bring environmental data from recently established reef monitoring programmes and large-scale ocean observing systems into the long- term context of the last centuries. In addition to living reefs, well- dated fossil reefs and their paleogeographic distribution provide crucial information on paleoclimate and sea-level changes in the more distant geological past. Information on the response of reefs to past environmental changes under boundary conditions different from today provide an important benchmark in successfully assessing and predicting the future of coral reefs in a changing climate. We expect a stimulating session on all aspects of and latest developments in: * Environmental records in reef organisms * Fossil reefs and corals as archives * Paleoclimate and sea-level change * Paleogeographic distribution of reefs * Reefs in siliciclastic settings If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May 15th at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session [1] "Paleoenvironment reconstructions, paleontology". Please also forward copies of the abstract, indicating whether you would prefer an oral or poster presentation, to us at: tfelis at uni-bremen.de and jenszinke at falw.vu.nl We look forward to your participation. Regards Thomas Felis and Jens Zinke Dr Thomas Felis DFG-Research Center for Ocean Margins University of Bremen GEO Building, Klagenfurter Str. 28359 Bremen Germany e-mail: tfelis at uni-bremen.de phone: +49-(0)421-218-7769 fax: +49-(0)421-218-65505 http://www.rcom.marum.de/English/Dr._Thomas_Felis.html Dr Jens Zinke Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam FALW, Dept. Paleoclimatology and Paleoecology De Boelelaan 1085 1081 HV Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel. 0031 20 598 73 27 Fax. 0031 20 598 99 41 email: jenszinke at falw.vu.nl http://sheba.geo.vu.nl/~palmorph/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:50:17 -0000 From: "Reia Guppy" Subject: [Coral-List] Abstracts requested for Bremen 2006 - Stress responses in corals To: "Coral Listserve" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" I'm posting this on behalf of John Bythell: Dear Coral-List, The organisers of the session ?Stress responses in corals? at the ISRS meeting in Bremen (Sept 19-22nd 2006) would like to invite submission of abstracts for consideration as part of this session. The above session welcomes papers on stress responses of corals at the organism, cell and molecular levels. In particular we would encourage papers that improve our understanding of disease processes in corals; that further our knowledge of the bleaching response and which clarify the interactions between bleaching and disease. If you are interested in participating in this session please submit your abstract by May 15 at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on ?Registration?, go to ?Abstract Submission? and assign your abstract to session 10 ? Stress responses in corals? and send a copy to both John Bythell at j.c.bythell at ncl.ac.uk and Barbara Brown at ProfBarbaraBrown at aol.com. We look forward to your participation and please let us know if we can be of further assistance. Best regards and looking forward to seeing you in Bremen. John Bythell Barbara Brown Reia Guppy Division of Biology Ridley Building University of Newcastle Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 7RU, U.K. Tel: +44 (0) 191 222 6664 Fax: +44 (0) 191 222 5229 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:22:37 -0500 From: Sanjay Joshi Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Spectral Absorption Data To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060313122119.038cf308 at psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi, I am looking for some data on the spectral absorption curves for different coral. is such data available anywhere ? If so, where can I find it. Thanks, sanjay. =================================================================== Dr. Sanjay Joshi, Ph.D. Professor of Industrial & Manufacturing Engineering Penn State University, University Park, PA 16802. Phone: 814-865-2108 ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:53:34 -0800 From: Subject: [Coral-List] Education and Hollywood To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" Message-ID: <20994295.1142297614679.JavaMail.root at fepweb06> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 As a scientific illustrator and writer backgrounds in earth/marine science and education, I am involved in the development of science educational materials for K-12-college students and the lay public (geology and coral reef ecology). In education we talk about different kinds of learning styles, and the need to present subject matter in as many ways as possible in order to reach all types of learners. Educating us (the public) about coral reef decline or any other important issue needs as many approaches as possible: Inundate us with entertaining/educational movies and TV programs, colorful books and articles in print - even video games; integrate the subject matter all through the K-12 curriculum (and mandate it as part of the national educational standards), expand outreach activities - and cultivate supportive public policy makers. As an example of what can be done in schools, current educational reform encourages "authentic" (real life) learning and assessment using multidisciplinary, problem-based approaches. Coral reef issues offer perfect opportunities for such learning. In 1999, I wrote, illustrated, and published GROUPER MOON - a children's science adventure for use in the classroom - fiction, with accurate science that addresses the problems of over-fishing and coral reef decline. My approach to the story was to create a lovable fish character (Cooper the Grouper) - one with whom kids could relate and want to take care of (who could not love a Nassau grouper?) - but through the boy character, the story also addresses human concerns of being able "to have our fish and eat it, too." Stan Waterman wrote the foreword. (For more details, see www.aureliapress.com or amazon.com) My plan was to have teachers field test the book in their classrooms to see how it might work with the curriculum; next, use their feedback to develop formal lesson plans/activity guides and assessments to go with the book; then tweak and reprint the book, if necessary - and, finally, market it as a package. Soon after the book was printed, family matters sidetracked me for several years, so I am just now in the curriculum development stage. (I do this in my spare time between contracts.) Teacher and student response to the book has been very positive. Even without any current marketing, orders for classroom sets of books stagger in. Occasionally I am surprised by a package of art and letters from a classroom of kids who ask "is it really true?" and how they think the story should be made into a movie (really!) - actually, adult readers have said the same thing, but I've never done a screenplay before. But if Hollywood were to get involved with making ANY kind of coral reef movie, how about doing so with plans to develop educational materials to go with it? (BTW, are there currently materials to use with the IMAX production?) There is already a lot of good stuff out there, but where is it all, and how can we avoid unnecessary duplication? I would suggest organizing a coordinated, multidisciplinary approach to establish specific goals for public education. Take an inventory of what is already being done, who is doing it, and decide how these isolated projects can fit into a collective effort - then figure out where the holes are, and go from there. Please don't hesitate to let me know how I can help. Best regards, Cindy Shaw 177 Kranichwood Street Richland, WA 99352 509 627 3839 phone 509 627 0703 fax cindyshaw177 at hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:40:34 -0800 (PST) From: shashank Keshavmurthy Subject: [Coral-List] whole coral C:N ratio To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <20060314014034.23370.qmail at web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Researchers Can anybody enlighten me on the CN ratio of intact coral piece..has anyone carried out CN analysis on a whole coral piece?...I know that generally the CN ratio of zooxanthellae and coral tissue is 7 and 6 (approximate).....but what is the CN ratio of a coral piece..say 1cm long (in case of Acropora sp.).... What happens to CN ratio when stressed....I believe it will increase (when I read the literature on the CN ratios in palnktons etc)...but in case of corals, as the stress effect increase...the Carbon content of the tissue start decreasing ??...(say from completely healthy tissue to partially bleached to completely bleached tissue).... but in alternate situation..say nutrient enriched (in form of Nitrogen)...then CN ratio will decrease (in case of zooxanthellae CN ratio)...but will that show when we measure CN ratio of intact whole coral piece?......i am confused here.... becasue when we measeure CN ratio of zooxanthellae and coral tissue seperately..it gives the individual CN ratios...but, if one measures CN ratio of a intact coral piece....then It should give the idea about the coral health status..is it? am I right or am i wrong? Thanks for listening to me...and I welcome any answers....I still have to learn many things in coral-algal physiology!!!!!! Best Regards Shashank "the role of infinitely small in nature is infinitely large"-Louis Pasteur Keshavmurthy Shashank phD candidate Kochi University, Graduate School of Kuroshio Science Laboratory of Environmental Conservation Otsu 200, Monobe, Nankoku-shi 783-8502, Kochi, Japan alt. id: shashank at cc.kochi-u.ac.jp phone: 81 090 8285 9012 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:42:16 +0100 From: "Hellen Faus " Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 To: Message-ID: <009201c646f7$c32de870$86c68a53 at kivuca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All... I do not participate a lot, as I am a total novell and don't know anything, but i read you with interest and this current issue actually concerns me a lot.... How to reach the most to get them be aware of the importance of marine life and coral in its extent?? I'm now working to run a web site in Spanish that gets all the information about coral for the general public. - By the way, if any of you has any suggestion, or agrees on the use of translations of your web information, just tell me - In this same sense I'm nowadays using this subjet in a course of didactic applications of TIC, and I've realized in the PPS and word docs given to my mates (all adults) that their first impression is just the same: "wuau... I did not know how important was it!!" For us is not easy, Spain is a country surrounded by sea, but not with coral reefs, and it sounds as very far from here, a paradise of sand and palms where most will never go... so the point has to be given on how to involve people on the basis that we all have our relevance, that "everything" goes to the sea (whichever it is), that anyone can do simple things to help without having to live on the coast of a pretty coral reef and the most important, having a minimum of knowledge of what's happening here. Of course, a tv platform would be excellent, but I don't think it is so easy to reach, and if so, my fear would be its mis-use and so the conversion of a good cause into another "market business" So, the education and formation is the main thing. Kids and schools, in first place... their enthusiasm -if we get it!- would get home, by sure. And anybody else... universities, work centers, cultural associations... a big effort in talks, shows and so on... Again, I think for Spain it will be more difficult... Our corals are not "so pretty", (they are, of course, but they are not such a colourful and not seen at simple sight) much deeper and when they suffer, as some years ago in the Mediterranean coast when they died due to a extrange current, but down to 40 meters deept, just very few knew about, nor even took any relevance :-( What can we do? And concretelly, any ideas for this place in Europe?? -----Mensaje original----- De: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] En nombre de coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Enviado el: lunes, 13 de marzo de 2006 18:00 Para: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Asunto: Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov You can reach the person managing the list at coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Education is the key! (Paul Stampfl) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:06 +0000 From: "Paul Stampfl" Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Message-ID: <20060313122907.9628C1793B at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Members of this in the last weeks very interesting List, Educate the kids! (And as by-product their parents) This is the most promising and probably only solution available to change the mind frame. Important is that we feed the kids again and again (its like advertising) We should get the schools, the teachers and most importantly the kids involved. For a start; Lets put together a workshop (there might be already enough suitable educational material out there) and visit the schools. I am sure there is one around your corner! One could set up a website adjusted to the needs of the kids and the syllabus and accompany the kids throughout the school year or school career. Kids like competitions; set out some prizes and let them compete for it in a quiz (within and between schools) Important is, that they have a contact / a face they can communicate with and (as a highlight) talk to them personally from time to time. We could search for a mascot (Nemo is probably already protected by some copyright law. Run a campaign where the kids (schools) have the option to choose between different mascots, come up with a name, let them paint  you get the point! This kind of effort would need some coordination and will therefore raise a range of issues. - What kind of administrative framework is required? Who e.g. would host the website? Is it necessary to set up a new (independent!) platform? What is about the Kids that are not blessed with high speed internet access? Sponsoring? etc. I am sure you have some input and answers. Paul ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 20 ****************************************** ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 21 ****************************************** From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Tue Mar 14 14:05:39 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:05:39 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Caribbean MPA Managers' Meeting: August 7-11, 2006 Message-ID: <44171403.8010309@noaa.gov> Greetings! This message is an invitation to Caribbean MPA managers to meet with selected data suppliers and information systems engineers to help design a next generation Web-based tool to aid in management and research, based on the integration of near real-time and other data. The meeting will be held at La Parguera, Puerto Rico, August 7-11, 2006, at the Parador Villa Parguera near Phosphorescent Bay. NOAA has committed to integrating ocean data from a variety of sources under a project called the Integrated Ocean Observing System. NOAA?s Coral Reef Conservation Program has also committed to integrating coral data from a variety of sources for the benefit of coral reef researchers and Marine Protected Area (MPA) managers, especially under the aegis of the Coral Reef Ecosystem Integrated Observing System program. NOAA Research and the Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory (AOML) are participating in this venture by providing Web-based software to integrate various near real-time data sources, and by providing an inference engine (artificial intelligence tool) to provide ecosystem forecasts for MPA decision support under a program called the Integrated Coral Observing Network (ICON). ~~ What We Hope To Accomplish ~~ We hope to eventually be able to provide decision support for selected questions an MPA manager might have, such as: * Is increased weekend user activity negatively affecting water quality (turbidity, chlorophyll, nitrogen, wind/waves, for example)? * Can I detect a pollution event? * If there is an oil spill, can it be detected automatically and what direction will it travel? * When will selected fish/corals spawn (and where will they go)? * When will selected fish/invertebrates migrate? * Can I detect large ship intrusion into my MPA in time to stop a disaster on the reefs? * Can I detect large rainfall events, and how will these affect local run-off into my MPA? * How can I detect large-scale change in my reef systems? * When are conditions conducive to coral disease and/or bleaching? * When are conditions conducive to increased algal growth? * Can I detect significant harmful algal blooms in time to prevent fishing contaminated species? * Can I detect unauthorized access into my MPA? * How can I broadcast underwater live events (such as coral spawning or bleaching) and other outreach events to the public? * How can I see trends in environmental parameters through time, and can I receive notice when things change? After the meeting, a document will be prepared which summarizes the Caribbean MPA Managers' requirements for data and research support, as well as questions such as these. This document will be used to guide the ICON team and colleagues in developing the software, but also in providing guidance to other software developers and researchers of all relevant disciplines. ~~ Attendance and Support ~~ Through NOAA's Coral Reef Conservation Program, and the Caribbean Coral Reef Institute, funds are being provided to support rooms for about 20 managers or their designates; however, there will be room for about 80 additional attendees in the conference hall. All attendees must provide their own air fare. The priority on selecting attendees will be for managers from as many representative Caribbean MPAs as possible; however, a few special guests who are data suppliers will also be in attendance. The selection of attendees will be made by the Program Managers and will be based mainly on location and who first registered; however, you will have a chance to apply for attendance based on special considerations. A Web Page describing more about the project, as well as details and the form for registering can be found at: http://www.coral.noaa.gov/mpa/retreat/ All 20 officially invited attendees will be asked to give a 20 minute presentation describing their coral reef MPA, but concentrating especially on what their data, research and socioeconomic needs are. It doesn't matter if particular data streams are currently available or not: part of the purpose of the meeting is to determine which research data sources need to be gained for effective management. In turn, the ICON team will meet with the invitees as necessary for follow-up on how we can help. The period for selection of the representative attendees will closed May 1, 2006. An announcement will be made shortly thereafter as to the supported and non-supported attendees. Non-supported attendees may continue to apply so long as the 100 slots are not filled. ~~ The New La Parguera Marine Reserve ICON/CREWS Station ~~ The La Parguera Marine Reserve is the site of the latest CREWS station, which is a data supplier to the ICON program. The University of Puerto Rico's Department of Marine Science at the Magueyes Island Marine Laboratory, and the Caribbean Coral Reef Institute (CCRI), are collaborating with AOML to maintain and operate this station. We anticipate being able to provide some support for attendees to visit the station and the laboratory. Here are some links for more information: * http://www.coral.noaa.gov/crw/crw_data_lppr1_Web_12.html (CREWS Data Report) * http://lppr1-log.blogspot.com/ (temporary station maintenance page) * http://www.coral.noaa.gov/noaa/icon/crews-install.pdf (CREWS station installation description) * http://cima.uprm.edu/magueyes.html (Magueyes Island Marine Laboratory) * http://www.cop.noaa.gov/ecosystems/coralreefs/current/ccri-factsheet-cr.html (Caribbean Coral Reef Institute) Thank you for your attention and support! Sincerely yours, The Program Managers Jim Hendee, NOAA/AOML Richard Appledoorn, UPRM/CCRI Brian Keller, FKNMS From reefball at reefball.com Tue Mar 14 14:22:12 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:22:12 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations-Guana Cay Issue References: Message-ID: <008c01c6479c$98527990$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Just my two cents worth on the Guana Cay issue. It seems to me that we cannot stop world wide development. Therefore, shouldn't we be working on ways to help developers to be more coral reef friendly instead of fighting them in courts trying to stop them? By making them "the enemy" you can be sure if they win they won't care at all about the reef....and some may even want to destroy it so that it does not hamper future development. (It is a common thing, for example, for waterfront home owners in Florida to pull up mangrove seedlings for fear if they take root they will be protected and they will loose their "view") Reefs are a win/win for developer if left unharmed, they increase the property value. Therefore, we must work to find ways to help them protect the reefs in a way they percieve helps their asset wealth and property values. As a group, we should be helping Discovery Land Company to use innovative pollution controls, minimal fertilizers, undertake restoration of mangrove and reefs (perhaps to give the golf course a more natural feel and resort guests a snorkeling site) or any of the other important solutions we are working on to save reefs. If we really want to protect reefs, we have to focus on efforts that work within economic realities. I wish I could say we could stop the development, but we all know that is not possible with the growth in human populations that way it currently is worldwide. Even if it is not a perfect solution, we must slowly push people to do a little bit better with every effort. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Gauger" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations > Re: FW: Coral Reef goes to CourtTo everybody interested in the Guana Cay > golf course development, I just wanted to give you all an update. > Discovery > Land Company, a California golf development company, is building a > dastardly golf course and marina on Guana Cay, a small islet in the > Northern > Bahamas. Currently, all development potentially dangerous to the coral > reef > is still halted as a judge in the Bahamas Supreme Court deliberates over > the > fate of the island, its reef and mangroves. > > I am writing because I know several of you are interested in how the > politics of saving coral reefs can play out. This is an extremely unusual > case, because the Prime Minister of a country and a foreign developer are > being held accountable to the environment in a court of law. It is a case > that more conservationists should follow, as hopefully in the end the > precedent is that more countries will tie sustainability to the court > system > when public outcry fails. Hopefully, all of you will see this case as a > potential precedent for saving coral reefs in your own countries and > regions. > > However, the way news and public relations works in small island > communities > is incredibly strange. In this case, Discovery Land Company wrote a press > release to the major newspapers in the Bahamas just yesterday . Both the > Bahama Journal and the Nassau Guardian printed the press release as if it > were straight news. > > Incredibly, the Bahama Journal printed this statement: "Save Guana Cay > protesters are a conspiracy of liars feigning concern for the environment > to > further their own selfish economic motives." Now, we know that hundreds of > you back the science of the Guana Cay locals. We also know that the Sierra > Club, Global Coral, Greenpeace, Mangrove Action Network, Global Response > and > others back the position of the locals. Are all of us liars with selfish > motives? > > Additionally, Mike Risk, a coral reef ecologist, conducted an assessment > of > Discovery Land Company's EIA and believes the developer will destroy the > reef in a matter of years. James Cervino and field assistants did > additional > testing of the corals and examined the Discovery Land Company's plan. His > research also indicates this plan is dangerous to Guana Cay's coral > environment. > > Despite all this, it is incredible how the media is still able to say that > all of us who have genuine concerns about Guana Cay are 'a conspiracy of > liars...' The Sierra Club and other groups have repeatedly asked the > developer to address various environmental deficiencies - they have never > done so. Despite this, how can they get something like that published as > if > it were true? > > The San Francisco Chronicle, after visiting Guana Cay, wrote to me and > said, > "The developers had told me that it was only a small minority of people on > the island who oppose the project, but I didn't find that to be true. I > talked with a lot of people, stopping people randomly as I moved around > the > island, and nearly all of them were opposed." > > Despite one of the largest newspapers in the world finding this claim to > be > totally false, Discovery Land Company is able to continually tell us > otherwise - and people believe it. In an email, Livingston Marshall, > representing the developer, said that there were only two people in the > world that are opposed the development. If you visit Guana Cay, you will > find opposition to the project to be about 98% Despite this, Discovery > Land > Company writes in their press release that it is an "extremely small > number > of Guana Cay residents" who oppose the development. > > The developer's press release stated that the people who oppose the > development are "propagating false and erroneous information." But after > hundreds of conversations with coral reef ecologists and conservationists, > I > understand the Guana Cay locals' position to be the consensus position > among coral reef ecologists - and that's a rare statement to make! It > would > seem that the developer would have a high burden of proof to argue their > way > out of all of this. But Kathleen Sullivan-Sealey and others paid by the > developer, have made no public statements attempting to debate the > scientific consensus. How are they able to get away with this, and still > get > a press release like that published? Why is it so difficult for genuine > reef conservation to persevere against public relations campaigns? > > Erik Gauger > http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/guana.htm > current press on the subject is available here: > http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/bakers_bay_press.html > The locals website is here: > http://www.saveguanacayreef.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From erik at notesfromtheroad.com Tue Mar 14 15:26:08 2006 From: erik at notesfromtheroad.com (Erik Gauger) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:26:08 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations-Guana Cay Issue In-Reply-To: <008c01c6479c$98527990$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: Todd - I absolutely agree with you that coral scientists must work with developers to find innovative ways to protect coral reefs. As a non-scientist, I have done my best to answer this question. Recently, I traveled to Nicaragua to prove that genuine eco-sensitive development is possible, that it works and thrives. But in every example of successful eco-development, the local community is involved at every level. There are appropriate levels of development for areas that are close to coral reefs or important, fragile terrestrial ecosystems. There are innovative ways to succeed and profit. Every single instance that I know of involves a relationship between the developer, the science world and the locals. Here is that article: http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/isthmus/nica.html The problem with Discovery Land Company is that they have taken an aggressive stance against the locals and have failed to work with the outside world, and I think Mike Risk's email supports this view. From the start, they avoided public consultation and failed to listen to suggestions from the coral reef world. The locals of Guana Cay want development. They are not 'environmentalists'; they are just dive operators and fishermen and cottage tourism owners. For them, this development could be the end of their way of life. They have the right to see this developer as an enemy. Despite that, they have always taken the high road, relying on facts and consensus and the opinions of experts. I say it is crucial to always work with developers. But when a developer calls your environmentalism efforts financially-motivated and deceitful and fails to involve the people who have lived on that tiny island for 200 years, it is clear they are not interested in doing what you propose. It is interesting to note that the developer barely advertises that a coral reef is adjacent to their proposed development. In all of their glossy advertisements, it is all golf and megayachts. The point, all along, is that the development as proposed is unsustainable, and efforts to provide suggestions to make it more sustainable have been met with attempts to discredit the people making those suggestions. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Erik -----Original Message----- From: Todd Barber [mailto:reefball at reefball.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:22 AM To: Erik Gauger; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations-Guana Cay Issue Just my two cents worth on the Guana Cay issue. It seems to me that we cannot stop world wide development. Therefore, shouldn't we be working on ways to help developers to be more coral reef friendly instead of fighting them in courts trying to stop them? By making them "the enemy" you can be sure if they win they won't care at all about the reef....and some may even want to destroy it so that it does not hamper future development. (It is a common thing, for example, for waterfront home owners in Florida to pull up mangrove seedlings for fear if they take root they will be protected and they will loose their "view") Reefs are a win/win for developer if left unharmed, they increase the property value. Therefore, we must work to find ways to help them protect the reefs in a way they percieve helps their asset wealth and property values. As a group, we should be helping Discovery Land Company to use innovative pollution controls, minimal fertilizers, undertake restoration of mangrove and reefs (perhaps to give the golf course a more natural feel and resort guests a snorkeling site) or any of the other important solutions we are working on to save reefs. If we really want to protect reefs, we have to focus on efforts that work within economic realities. I wish I could say we could stop the development, but we all know that is not possible with the growth in human populations that way it currently is worldwide. Even if it is not a perfect solution, we must slowly push people to do a little bit better with every effort. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Gauger" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations > Re: FW: Coral Reef goes to CourtTo everybody interested in the Guana Cay > golf course development, I just wanted to give you all an update. > Discovery > Land Company, a California golf development company, is building a > dastardly golf course and marina on Guana Cay, a small islet in the > Northern > Bahamas. Currently, all development potentially dangerous to the coral > reef > is still halted as a judge in the Bahamas Supreme Court deliberates over > the > fate of the island, its reef and mangroves. > > I am writing because I know several of you are interested in how the > politics of saving coral reefs can play out. This is an extremely unusual > case, because the Prime Minister of a country and a foreign developer are > being held accountable to the environment in a court of law. It is a case > that more conservationists should follow, as hopefully in the end the > precedent is that more countries will tie sustainability to the court > system > when public outcry fails. Hopefully, all of you will see this case as a > potential precedent for saving coral reefs in your own countries and > regions. > > However, the way news and public relations works in small island > communities > is incredibly strange. In this case, Discovery Land Company wrote a press > release to the major newspapers in the Bahamas just yesterday . Both the > Bahama Journal and the Nassau Guardian printed the press release as if it > were straight news. > > Incredibly, the Bahama Journal printed this statement: "Save Guana Cay > protesters are a conspiracy of liars feigning concern for the environment > to > further their own selfish economic motives." Now, we know that hundreds of > you back the science of the Guana Cay locals. We also know that the Sierra > Club, Global Coral, Greenpeace, Mangrove Action Network, Global Response > and > others back the position of the locals. Are all of us liars with selfish > motives? > > Additionally, Mike Risk, a coral reef ecologist, conducted an assessment > of > Discovery Land Company's EIA and believes the developer will destroy the > reef in a matter of years. James Cervino and field assistants did > additional > testing of the corals and examined the Discovery Land Company's plan. His > research also indicates this plan is dangerous to Guana Cay's coral > environment. > > Despite all this, it is incredible how the media is still able to say that > all of us who have genuine concerns about Guana Cay are 'a conspiracy of > liars...' The Sierra Club and other groups have repeatedly asked the > developer to address various environmental deficiencies - they have never > done so. Despite this, how can they get something like that published as > if > it were true? > > The San Francisco Chronicle, after visiting Guana Cay, wrote to me and > said, > "The developers had told me that it was only a small minority of people on > the island who oppose the project, but I didn't find that to be true. I > talked with a lot of people, stopping people randomly as I moved around > the > island, and nearly all of them were opposed." > > Despite one of the largest newspapers in the world finding this claim to > be > totally false, Discovery Land Company is able to continually tell us > otherwise - and people believe it. In an email, Livingston Marshall, > representing the developer, said that there were only two people in the > world that are opposed the development. If you visit Guana Cay, you will > find opposition to the project to be about 98% Despite this, Discovery > Land > Company writes in their press release that it is an "extremely small > number > of Guana Cay residents" who oppose the development. > > The developer's press release stated that the people who oppose the > development are "propagating false and erroneous information." But after > hundreds of conversations with coral reef ecologists and conservationists, > I > understand the Guana Cay locals' position to be the consensus position > among coral reef ecologists - and that's a rare statement to make! It > would > seem that the developer would have a high burden of proof to argue their > way > out of all of this. But Kathleen Sullivan-Sealey and others paid by the > developer, have made no public statements attempting to debate the > scientific consensus. How are they able to get away with this, and still > get > a press release like that published? Why is it so difficult for genuine > reef conservation to persevere against public relations campaigns? > > Erik Gauger > http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/guana.htm > current press on the subject is available here: > http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/bakers_bay_press.html > The locals website is here: > http://www.saveguanacayreef.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Mar 14 14:59:50 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:59:50 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations-Guana Cay Issue In-Reply-To: <008c01c6479c$98527990$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: Hello Todd. Thanks for the input. In a perfect world, what you propose would be the answer. It is always more pleasant to work with developers and educate them as you go-some of them are in fact quite concerned about the environment. That has been tried in this case, and has not worked. This company has a long history of noncompliance. They have shown not the slightest inclination to budge from their original plan, which-to summarize-has an 18-hole golf course, a 400-slip marina, several hundred estate homes and a hotel, on a piece of land that wouldn't make a decent dragstrip and is 100m wide at its most narrow. (I forget the exact size, but it's tiny.) The fringing reef, along with the turtle nesting areas, is about 20 metres from the edge of the golfcourse. They have been offered mediation-refused. They have been offered a joint reef-monitoring program-refused. Thye have refused to scale back the development, and refused any meaningful scientific or societal debate. Instead, for example, they began parts of the development before approval had been given. They have bypassed the community now living on that island, and are now embarked in a full-bore PR campaign. So I would propose to you that these are Bad Guys, with whom no negotiation ever would have worked. There will be a spectrum of developer mindsets: some will be so green as to make us proud. With some, we will be able to work, to convince them to accept modest requests that pay big biodiversity dividends. With others, the role of the concerned scientist is clear: make such a huge stink that the bastards give up and go elsewhere. And then we hope the next bunch are more reasonable. (Can you say "bastards" on coral-list? If so, I have some more words that may fit in this case...) Mike From tshannon at uga.edu Tue Mar 14 15:05:22 2006 From: tshannon at uga.edu (Tom Shannon) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:05:22 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations Message-ID: Erik, By Jove, I think you may have stumbled upon the scientific funding direction of the future. The obvious answer to your questions of how "Discovery Land Company" can pull off such public dupings, as I'm sure you are more than aware, is simple... MONEY. They have it, we don't. As a sidetrack from the exhaustive discussion of sexy scientists and coral porn that has recently plagued this list... Perhaps we should deviate from the norm of asking governmental groups for research grants, and suggest, instead, monies to take out full-page newspaper ads to publish our data. To Heck with Science, Nature, MEPS, etc... Imagine the public impact of pretty, full-colored graphs and charts representing REAL data in such publications as The New York Times, The Herald Tribune, and The National Enquirer. Granted, I'm speaking with my tongue firmly ensconced in my cheek, but perhaps we should start looking at ways to get our data out to the general public and not keeping it locked up behind the Dewey Decimal System in academic journals. It would appear that "Discovery Land Company" realized the feasibility of such techniques (despite the cooked numbers); maybe we should take note. Tom Shannon Tom Shannon Institute of Ecology University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 Lab(706)542-3328 www.arches.uga.edu/~tshannon Evolution IS "just a theory". Creationism, however, is an unsubstantiated hypothesis. From jenmhester at hotmail.com Tue Mar 14 15:15:56 2006 From: jenmhester at hotmail.com (Jennifer Hester) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:15:56 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Need a reference paper Message-ID: Aloha, I have heard from many scientists in the field of coral biology that members of the genus Porites may tend to be more difficult to successfully PCR, due to a variety of factors that possibly inhibit the PCR reaction. Does anyone know of a journal article that would make a good reference to this? Thanks, Jennifer Hester From reefball at reefball.com Tue Mar 14 15:39:34 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations-Guana Cay Issue References: Message-ID: <00d301c647a7$6777c1d0$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hi Michael, I agree, there is a range of developers from evil to concerned. Still, I believe that no matter were in the spectrum they fall, they can be pushed to do things at least a little better. Maybe not going from evil to good at one time but maybe, just maybe, from evil to not so evil. Perhaps the key here is to focus on Livingstone Marshall. I have met him and he is a very reasonable kinda guy. (I'll have to admit he even impressed me). He is concerned about the environment. He is polictical and therefore his mind can be changed. If you are sure that the litigation can stop this developer, fine go that route as it sounds like the best route. But in the case that it does not work, there should be a second plan to help the developer to reduce threats to the reef. Maybe they don't want monitoring because it could show they are doing something bad, maybe they don't want to mediate because they know they are in the wrong, maybe they are afraid of science because it could stop their development. So why not offer some positive things. If we can get to the right people, maybe we can teach them about slow release fertilizers to save them expense and spare the reefs from nitrates and nitrites. Maybe we can teach them how to plant mangroves to enhance the view while filtering nutrients out before they hit the reef. Just throwing crazy ideas out, but you get the general idea. We must find ways to help them that are not threatening to the development or you can be sure they will throw the baby out with the bath water. We've got some close NGO contacts in the Bahamas that know Livingston. So, if you have a good plan that is not polarizing, I would be glad to approach them and have them get the idea to Livingston from a non-threating source. Thanks for all your work on this one, I wish everyone was as concerned about every development! Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Risk" To: "Todd Barber" ; "Erik Gauger" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Coral Conservation versus Public Relations-Guana Cay Issue > Hello Todd. > > Thanks for the input. > > In a perfect world, what you propose would be the answer. It is always > more pleasant to work with developers and educate them as you go-some > of them are in fact quite concerned about the environment. > > That has been tried in this case, and has not worked. This company has > a long history of noncompliance. They have shown not the slightest > inclination to budge from their original plan, which-to summarize-has > an 18-hole golf course, a 400-slip marina, several hundred estate homes > and a hotel, on a piece of land that wouldn't make a decent dragstrip > and is 100m wide at its most narrow. (I forget the exact size, but it's > tiny.) The fringing reef, along with the turtle nesting areas, is about > 20 metres from the edge of the golfcourse. > > They have been offered mediation-refused. > They have been offered a joint reef-monitoring program-refused. > Thye have refused to scale back the development, and refused any > meaningful scientific or societal debate. Instead, for example, they > began parts of the development before approval had been given. They > have bypassed the community now living on that island, and are now > embarked in a full-bore PR campaign. > > So I would propose to you that these are Bad Guys, with whom no > negotiation ever would have worked. > > There will be a spectrum of developer mindsets: some will be so green > as to make us proud. With some, we will be able to work, to convince > them to accept modest requests that pay big biodiversity dividends. > With others, the role of the concerned scientist is clear: make such a > huge stink that the bastards give up and go elsewhere. And then we hope > the next bunch are more reasonable. > > (Can you say "bastards" on coral-list? If so, I have some more words > that may fit in this case...) > > Mike From beth.dieveney at noaa.gov Tue Mar 14 17:41:51 2006 From: beth.dieveney at noaa.gov (Beth Dieveney) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:41:51 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] U.S. Coral Reef Task Force Meeting - May 4, 2006 Message-ID: <441746AF.30804@noaa.gov> Coral Colleagues~ *RE: *Information for the upcoming U.S. Coral Reef Task Force Meeting *Location: *Washington D.C., U.S. Department of Commerce *Date: *May 4, 2006, 8:00 a.m. Registration, 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Business Meeting Please see the attached documents for more information: - hotel reservations - exhibits - public comment opportunity Register for the meeting and find pertinent information on line at: www.coralreef.gov For any other questions please contact beth.dieveney at noaa.gov Regards, Beth From adeline_pouget at yahoo.fr Wed Mar 15 00:06:10 2006 From: adeline_pouget at yahoo.fr (Adeline POUGET) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:06:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Coral-List] coral artificial reefs and aquaculture Message-ID: <20060315050610.40456.qmail@web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello coral listers, I?m starting a study on artificial reefs made from living coral and I?m looking for articles about this technique. Can you help me? Is there anyone who know if this kind of artificial reef have been already made under offshore cage of aquaculture ? have you got some articles about that? Thank you very much Adeline POUGET Adeline POUGET 12 all?e des Letchis 97434 St Gilles les bains ?le de La R?union FRANCE tel: 06.92.15.92.62 From abroad: 262.692.15.92.62 --------------------------------- Nouveau : t?l?phonez moins cher avec Yahoo! Messenger ! D?couvez les tarifs exceptionnels pour appeler la France et l'international.T?l?chargez la version beta. From justin.marshall at uq.edu.au Wed Mar 15 01:28:19 2006 From: justin.marshall at uq.edu.au (Justin Marshall) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:28:19 +1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Education, Community, DATA, CoralWatch Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060315122446.0338c3d0@dingo.uq.edu.au> Great to have a mostly positive debate and outlook on the potentially gloomy future of reefs. I have arranged my input here, a bit like Steve's last, as a set of random but related points. The take home message up front is PLEASE PROVIDE DATA TO THE CORALWATCH WEBSITE (Ooops - sounding a bit like a princess from Africa there) and - education and community involvement are, in our opinion, key to the future of reefs. Random points / comments on debate from CoralWatch as follows, largely reinforcing points already raised: a) It is surprising how many folks still do not know what bad shape many reefs are in and as a science community I think we need to keep saying it, no matter how squeaky-wheel and gloom laden it may seem to us. b) Educate the future reef watchers, kids from age 6 up and before can make a huge difference. Even politicians and corporate giants have children and when they hear that their future world is getting messed up they are unhappy. c) Community involvement - that is non-expert, non-scientists is a vital ingredient. Examples are: Fijian fishermen looking after their patch of reef, tour operators in Australia and the Caribbean preserving their dive sites, local coastal community groups. How do we get more of these people providing input? d) Getting data back and reported on and sent to the right places seems to me to be the missing component at the moment. There is a lot of talk (as above) about who, where and when but less about now what? As far as I can see sections in NOAA, GBRMPA, GCRMN, Reef Check, Reef Base and others (?) are having a good go but it is not clear to me how well this is going? Comment from them? These 4 points are the things that bobble about in my mind at the moment and are based on running CoralWatch over the last 3 years or so (www.coralwatch.org). I have talked about this before on coral-list so won't repeat here other than to say that we are happy to send coral colour charts out to anyone who can use them. We also have a good teachers package put together. Without wanting to sound like a salesman, the CoralWatch system seems to us to be a good way to address these 4 points. It is just one way of keeping an eye on the reefs but one that is immediately accessible to anyone without any training. It provides real data that, once entered on the website, is available to all (we have done all the controls of expert v non-expert). It can be integrated into existing systems (eco-groups, scientists doing transects, schools visiting reefs). The short blurb that goes with the system (both on the web and in handout form) raises awareness as best we can (more input to improve this side of our system always welcome) and also encourages people to live better/cleaner as best they can (we need to up this side of the system). We are not after pats on the back here - more like give us your help on refining this system and if you like it, spread it. Another reason for banging the CoralWatch drum is that for those interested in learning more, we are running a (now annual) workshop on Heron Island on the Great Barrier Reef - see www.coralwatch.org for details or email k.. Our BIG PROBLEM - and I am hoping that those listers who have been doing this longer than us can help - is the lack of data return and then of course what to do with this data. There has been a tremendously enthusiastic response to the system, with 450 groups in over 50 countries worldwide receiving thousands of charts, the groups breaking down as: education and media 125, monitoring and research 250, tourism and diving 75. We know that the system is being used to guide policy in China and this is very encouraging. From all these we have had only just over 100 data entries back. Some of these put in a magnificent effort with many thousand data points or good re-sampling over time. However it seems that, although we may be raising awareness, we need to work harder to raise feedback? Phase 2 seems to be lacking and without real numbers both over time and spatially, we have no teeth to bite the right asses. Any ideas? As an example, during the recent Caribbean bleaching, we sent out CoralWatch to around 40 groups but got no data back. Of course we are happy just to get CoralWatch out of the door and if data is being generated locally and not entered into the central site, that is still wonderful. We are getting a lot of great support from a number of organisations in this distribution effort, however we would love to get more data back. Mark Eakin (NOAA) recently requested data from the Caribbean and we have talked with him about integrating CoralWatch data into his system. I wonder how he went with data return of any sort - Mark are you happy to report back in public chat mode yet? Did you and I missed it? So - the point of this slight plea/whinge from us comes back to points raised in the current debate. While there is much that needs to be done with step one - informing, educating, gathering support etc, let's also work on step 2 which is get that data and stick it where it needs to be so at least our grand children will have hard evidence that we really did try and not that we just thought about trying. And now some more philosophical points re the current debate - all my opinion from my own limited view of this: a) Here in Australia we are 'just' realising that we have done to large sections of our coastal reefs what was done in Florida (the spark for this debate and a reef system I first saw 30 years ago - boo hoo now!). The head in the sand attitude to this here, from large sections of the community, is astonishing and I hope will change. b) I think it important to use the beauty of the reef (as well as the sexy people that work on it of course) as a lever. This is where we can engage, artists, film makers, photographers, poets, authors etc. The central message - look how beautiful it is and look, we are killing it, as sure as holding a blow-torch to a flower! As reef people I think we would be surprised, despite the efforts of J. Cousteau etc, at how many folks do not know about reefs and how splendid they are. c) I have a sweet tooth and like sugar and I like to eat fish - very important in my mind is not blaming or attaching responsibility where it is not warranted. Where it is warranted, probably the only way forward is through community pressure on both government and corporate bodies. Sadly, pressure from a few scientists, no matter how vocal and strident rarely achieves anything. I am not saying that we should stop being vocal as empirical evidence is vital - just that we need to explore other strategies as well, as suggested by several in this debate. d) It is never too late to start reducing carbon emissions, river sedimentation, other outflow problems and other insults to the reef. Even though there may be a huge lag-effect with some of these problems we need to start doing the right thing NOW. It is here in my mind that the resilience debate resides. Some reefs / species MAY be more resilient than others, however this should not give us any relief from the effort of trying to preserve what is left and in particular preserve the biodiversity of what is left (now I sound like I'm writing a grant!). e) Consolidation of opinion. Following on from (d). Of course if we say things like - "reefs can recover" this will be the only take home of most politicians in order to get re-elected. They recognise the problems and are desperate for good news. I think that in order to get things moving, that a more united and clear voice is needed from reef biologists. Although there are glimmers of hope with resilience and reef shading and transplanting etc. These are WAY left of center when it comes to the overriding evidence that we are rapidly destroying our reefs. Perspective here is vital. More than enough from Coral Watch and Justin - if there is a rolling ball here, let's keep it going! Prof Justin Marshall Vision Touch and Hearing Research Centre School of Biomedical Sciences University of Queensland St Lucia Brisbane Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA ph - +61 (0)7 33651397 fax - +61 (0)7 33654522 mob - 0423 024162 (Prawns in Space) http://ilc00f.facbacs.uq.edu.au/VTHRC/ecovis/ www.coralwatch.org From woodchae at science.oregonstate.edu Tue Mar 14 22:33:29 2006 From: woodchae at science.oregonstate.edu (Elisha Wood-Charlson) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:33:29 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Recent article on bleaching Message-ID: <44178B09.6060500@science.oregonstate.edu> Just wanted to make sure that everyone had a chance to read this.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060314/sc_nm/environment_coral_bleaching_dc_1 -Elisha -- Elisha Wood-Charlson Department of Zoology 3122 Cordley Hall Oregon State University Corvallis, OR 97331 From stevetooze1 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 15 08:14:12 2006 From: stevetooze1 at hotmail.com (steve tooze) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:14:12 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay - Conservation v Public Relations Message-ID: Dear Mike I'm a journalist myself and I think, if you're not already doing so, you need to start playing publicity hardball with these developers. I absolutely accept what Todd was saying about these guys having lots of money. But people power is always sexier, more sympathetic and makes better headlines than big business trying to use bullying tactics to get its way. Plus, as I'm sure you realise, the only reason that these guys are attacking your reputation and credibility in the local press (and pouring all their cash into an expensive PR campaign) is because they are scared of you and think you've got a good chance of thwarting their ugly scheme. So whatever you're doing now, you're doing right. Keep doing it. In addition, (sorry Erik if you're about to re-read everything I just put into an email to you!), if you've got a lawyer in yr midst, get him to fire off an angry letter to the papers that lazily regurgitated the 'liar' quote from some corporate press release. Demand an apology and retraction and a right of reply. Then get every campaigner willing to put pen to paper (or cursor to email) to send a letter of complaint. Editors and publisher hate bags of mail from angry readers and you can bet they will think twice before making that mistake again on this issue. As an added extra, their journalists/news desks will probably be ordered to look out for a story that supports yr viewpoint in order to quell the furious mob. Which you should duly supply - a good one would be to find someone, preferably a normal working guy like the people on Guana Cay, who has had their environment/livelihood/property values blighted by a previous Discovery development elsewhere. Someone sympathetic saying 'For God's sake don't let these people do to you what they've done to me!' That should scare the c**p (not sure if that's a word you can use on the List) out of the very local politicians that these developers are relying on to push this proposal through - and drum up extra outrage and anti-golf course feelings in the Bahamas. Apologies if you're already do all the above (hope it's working if you are!). Just wanted you to know from a media person's perspective, that it's not always the cash that buys the headlines. Significant numbers of passionate people protesting (ie your readers) always make better copy than big business bleating about its bottom line. Good luck Steve Tooze _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From pelejero at cmima.csic.es Wed Mar 15 08:46:00 2006 From: pelejero at cmima.csic.es (Carles Pelejero) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:46:00 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Session 9 - 6th European Coral Reef Conference Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060315143256.020545c8@cucafera.icm.csic.es> From reefball at reefball.com Wed Mar 15 10:46:37 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:46:37 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay - Conservation v Public Relations References: Message-ID: <004f01c64847$a560a4d0$6801a8c0@LaFalda> In the interest of trying to make some progress on the Guana Cay project, I have sent an email directly to the CEO of the Land Development Company offering Reef Ball Foundation services without charge to help them assess what they could do to better address protection of the Coral Reef around the Baker's Bay development. Let's hope a direct, non-threating approach might help the situation. We would be interesting in the assistance of any scientists interested in this project to join us on the assessment if they accept the offer (although it would probably be best not to use the scientists that are currently in direct opposition except as silent advisors to avoid confrontations). Everyone cross your fingers for a positive response from them. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve tooze" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Guana Cay - Conservation v Public Relations > Dear Mike > > I'm a journalist myself and I think, if you're not already doing so, you > need to start playing publicity hardball with these developers. I > absolutely > accept what Todd was saying about these guys having lots of money. But > people power is always sexier, more sympathetic and makes better headlines > than big business trying to use bullying tactics to get its way. > > Plus, as I'm sure you realise, the only reason that these guys are > attacking > your reputation and credibility in the local press (and pouring all their > cash into an expensive PR campaign) is because they are scared of you and > think you've got a good chance of thwarting their ugly scheme. So whatever > you're doing now, you're doing right. Keep doing it. > > In addition, (sorry Erik if you're about to re-read everything I just put > into an email to you!), if you've got a lawyer in yr midst, get him to > fire > off an angry letter to the papers that lazily regurgitated the 'liar' > quote > from some corporate press release. Demand an apology and retraction and a > right of reply. Then get every campaigner willing to put pen to paper (or > cursor to email) to send a letter of complaint. Editors and publisher hate > bags of mail from angry readers and you can bet they will think twice > before > making that mistake again on this issue. > > As an added extra, their journalists/news desks will probably be ordered > to > look out for a story that supports yr viewpoint in order to quell the > furious mob. Which you should duly supply - a good one would be to find > someone, preferably a normal working guy like the people on Guana Cay, who > has had their environment/livelihood/property values blighted by a > previous > Discovery development elsewhere. Someone sympathetic saying 'For God's > sake > don't let these people do to you what they've done to me!' > > That should scare the c**p (not sure if that's a word you can use on the > List) out of the very local politicians that these developers are relying > on > to push this proposal through - and drum up extra outrage and anti-golf > course feelings in the Bahamas. > > Apologies if you're already do all the above (hope it's working if you > are!). Just wanted you to know from a media person's perspective, that > it's > not always the cash that buys the headlines. Significant numbers of > passionate people protesting (ie your readers) always make better copy > than > big business bleating about its bottom line. > > Good luck > > Steve Tooze > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! > http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From reefball at reefball.com Wed Mar 15 11:46:31 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:46:31 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project Message-ID: <01f301c64850$0342c990$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Okay everyone, the CEO responded to me and IS open to discussion. WE HAVE AN OPENING AND AN OPPORTUNITY. His message was friendly and stated that they are eco-sensitive developers. Now the question is can we, as a group, come up with a reasonable set of recommendations of how they could proceed with the development while protecting the reef? DeeVon Quirolo said this may not be possible as the Development is too large for the Island. So let me pose this question and put it up for list debate...the same question I sent to DeeVon. If the development HAS to proceed (and I am NOT saying that it should) what could the developer do to make it more reef friendly. (i.e. what would you do if you had to build it)? I encourage everyone to take a practical view here.....minimizing reef damage may be better than total reef loss even though total reef protection may be desired but not possible. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) From reefball at reefball.com Wed Mar 15 15:09:56 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:09:56 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project References: Message-ID: <025201c6486c$6df61730$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hi Michael, First, it should be known that I have never suggested Reef Balls for Guana Cay. I have simply offered to interviene between those interested in preserving coral reefs and the developer to get a better outcome for the reef. And in fact, the Reef Ball Foundation would ALWAYS prefer to save a natural reef rather than having to resort to building an artificial one. But help me out here, it seems we have a Developer that is willing to consider options to make the development have less impact on the reef and we seem to have several scientists that can suggest "low impact" technologies that might be appropriate. (And it actually appears from my investigation that the Developer is trying to incorporate as many low impact features as they can). We have you saying we need an independent (non-developer sponsored) baseline and monitoring program which I agree with. Seems to me like everyone is in agreement on what to do to move forward. I must be missing something. You mentioned the developer "rejected" baseline & monitoring. I am not sure I understand who a developer could reject this or how a developer should even be involved in baseline data and on-going monitoring....that should be something the governmental agencies do or other independent scientific or NGO organizations do...as you stated it needs to be at arms length and I don't think that the developer can reject anyone doing science in the water near their development. It is a public policy issue if this information needs to be gathered. Certainly it is not done for every development.... for example, did you do a baseline and on-going monitoring on the impact to, for example, bird nesting impacts when you built your home? Sometimes government would say it was important to do so (in the event your house was being developed on a historical bird nesting location) and sometimes they would say it was not necessary. In the case of Guana Cay, I would say, "yes" we need to baseline and monitor the coral reefs around Guana Cay because the development is significant and the coral reef is important. So, the government should bear that expense. It should be able to more than pay for the studies with the increased tax revenues generated by the development. My point in all of this is that as activists, if we are going to cry out against development, we need to have alternatives, suggestions, and action plans to help guide the development to minimize the negative impacts. Even if faced with the complete halt of development we don't necessary achieve victory and save the reef because the developer will just move to another island with less resistance. That's why we need to give them assistance, not necessarily resistance. I'll give you an example from my own life. I have always known since I was young that the cars I drove contributes to coral reef's decline. Did I drive a solar car? No, it was not practical. But two years ago they came out with Hybrid cars. So, now both of my cars are hybrids. Science provided me with a reasonable alternative...cost me a bit more but I know it is better for the reefs. I think developers will do the same as science offers then alternatives. Is there a way to use this opportunity of an open dialog with the developer to accomplish something positive? Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Risk" To: "Todd Barber" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project > Hello Todd. > > My involvement with the Guana Cay situation has been restricted to the > writing of a short initial report, which was commissioned by the > present inhabitants. I have no involvement at present. Nonetheless, I > want my position on your actions to be crystal-clear to the -list: > > I am opposed to the use of Reef Balls or indeed any similar artificial > reef structures in this case. There is no need for them when the reef > is healthy. In fact, if you want to be of real use, try to ensure that > Reef Balls are never needed on Guana. > > What would help is what the "eco-friendly" developer has already > rejected. In this case, AND ALL SUCH CASES, there must be the following > ingredients: > > 1. necessary and sufficient baseline data on fish, invertebrates, and > nutrients. These data must be taken by qualified people, and at a > research-grade level with proper QA/QC protocols. > > 2. there must be a long-term monitoring program established, carried > out by an arms'-length agency (ie, NOT hired by and reporting to the > developer). > > 3. all data must be distributed freely and archived in several > locations. > > None of the above conditions have been met. > > Mike From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Mar 15 13:44:33 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:44:33 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project In-Reply-To: <01f301c64850$0342c990$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: Hello Todd. My involvement with the Guana Cay situation has been restricted to the writing of a short initial report, which was commissioned by the present inhabitants. I have no involvement at present. Nonetheless, I want my position on your actions to be crystal-clear to the -list: I am opposed to the use of Reef Balls or indeed any similar artificial reef structures in this case. There is no need for them when the reef is healthy. In fact, if you want to be of real use, try to ensure that Reef Balls are never needed on Guana. What would help is what the "eco-friendly" developer has already rejected. In this case, AND ALL SUCH CASES, there must be the following ingredients: 1. necessary and sufficient baseline data on fish, invertebrates, and nutrients. These data must be taken by qualified people, and at a research-grade level with proper QA/QC protocols. 2. there must be a long-term monitoring program established, carried out by an arms'-length agency (ie, NOT hired by and reporting to the developer). 3. all data must be distributed freely and archived in several locations. None of the above conditions have been met. Mike From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Wed Mar 15 16:22:52 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:22:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project Questions In-Reply-To: <01f301c64850$0342c990$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: <20060315212252.8173.qmail@web50413.mail.yahoo.com> TO: List We have had a long discussion of global thoughts and now a local action. Provide responses to the below questions and I/list can provide all sorts of measures which can be done to reduce damages to less than 10% of "total". I still have issues with regard to "Reef Ball" operations, relationships to "Developers", and relationships between the Not-for-Profit" vs "For Profit" elements and the use of the expertise of the Coral List. Dr. Tom Williams +1-650-558-9590 +1-323-528-4687 +971-50-559-0210 Based on -- From: "Todd Barber" reefball at reefball.com To: coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:46:31 ?C0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project 0. Reef Ball should define all direct and indrect relationships of the RB organizations and associates, contributors with the Developer or its associates, or its consultants. Simple matrix. Okay everyone, here are the initial Statement-Questioning: 1. CEO responded to me and IS open to discussion. 1.1 Can we see the CEO response and clearly define ??open?? 2. WE HAVE AN OPENING AND AN OPPORTUNITY. 2.1 What sort of ??opening?? See 1.1 ? 2.2 What are the expressed, explicit opportunity - See 1.1 ? 2.3 What are the expectations of the CEO ? 2.4 What are the expectations of the Coral List ? 3. His message was friendly and stated that they are eco-sensitive developers. 3.1 What is friendly ?C See 1.1 ? 3.2 What are the elements which supports the ??eco-sensitive?? for this Developer? 3.3 What are the elements which define ??eco-sensitive developers??? 3.4 What are examples of eco-sensitivity of ??developers?? and this Developer? 4. Come up with a reasonable set of recommendations of 4.1 Define ??reasonable?? 4.2 Define recommendation vs required mitigation measures 4.3 Define ??reasonable?? budget (best practical, best available, maximum achievable?? ?? 5. how they could proceed with the development while protecting the reef? 5.1 Need project environmental review, assessment, statement, report??? 5.2 Define ??protection measures???? 6. DeeVon Quirolo said this may not be possible 6.1 Please reference and document? 6.2 Why not possible, not practical (not profitable) 7. as the Development is too large for the Island. 7.1 Define too large for island 7.2 See Item 4.3 8. If the development HAS to proceed what could the developer do See Item 4 and others above. 9. Make it more reef friendly. (i.e. what would you do if you had to build it)? 9.1 See above 9.2 This can be done; can they afford it? 10. Take a practical view here...minimizing reef damage See above 10.1 How small is ??minimum?? 10.2 Why not Best Practical Mitigation Best Available Mitigation Maximum Achievable Mitigation Compensation Least Profitable (30%, 20, 10, 8% IRR) 11. may be better than total reef loss 11.1 Define Minimum damage vs Total damage (=loss) 12. even though total reef protection may be desired but not possible. The usual extreme arguments - Total Loss vs Total Protection Maximum Profit vs Minimum Profit From andrew.baird at jcu.edu.au Thu Mar 16 09:17:48 2006 From: andrew.baird at jcu.edu.au (Andrew Baird) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:17:48 Subject: [Coral-List] Indian Ocean Session - 6th European Coral Reef Conference Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20060316091748.011e8e40@mail.jcu.edu.au> Dear Corallist The organisers of the session "State of Indian Ocean and adjacent seas" at the International Society for Reef Studies European meeting in Bremen (Sept 19-22nd 2006) would like to invite submission of abstracts for consideration as part of this session. Reefs of the Indian Ocean have recently been subjected to a series of unprecedented cataclysmic disturbances including the Indian Ocean Dipole up welling in 1997, the El Nino of 1998 and the Sumatra-Andaman tsunami of 2004. These events provide a significant opportunity to determine the effects of rare disturbances on reef ecosystems and dependent people. In addition, many reefs are situated in areas, such as the Persian Gulf, with extreme fluctuations in environmental variables and studies of the biology of the organism may provide important clues on the potential of reefs to adapt to climate change. Furthermore, some regions in the Indian Ocean remain isolated either geographically or politically, and have yet to be adequately described (e.g. reefs of the Andaman Sea, and western Sumatra). In this session, we invite papers that explore themes including * Indian Ocean reef status and trends, in particular the effects of reef degradation on reefs and associated livelihoods * Biology and ecology of reef organisms living in extreme environments * Biological and ecological effects of the Sumatra-Andaman tsunami, in particular, studies addressing the putative protective role of marine and coastal ecosystems * Descriptive studies from previously unstudied locations If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May 15 at http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session 4 "State of Indian Ocean and adjacent seas-reefs".and send a copy to Tim McClanahan tmcclanahan at wcs.org or andrew.baird at jcu.edu.au. We look forward to your participation. From reefball at reefball.com Wed Mar 15 16:53:08 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:53:08 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project Questions References: <20060315212252.8173.qmail@web50413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02cb01c6487a$d9199420$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hi Tom, I will address all of your questions. 1) Reef Ball is not a commerical entity and is a public non-profit organization. We have no financial interest in the Guanya Cay project and we have offered to act as an intermediary without compensation. 2) CEO responded to me and IS open to discussion. Can we see the CEO response and clearly define? "Thank you for your comments. I'll have Livinston Marshall, our Sr VP of the environment, contact you. Our scientists and planners have incorporated a lot of those suggestions and more into our development. It is the opposition running a smear camapaign and if you review details with Dr. Marshall I think you will agree that we are a very eco-sensitive group and responsible developer. I'll look forward to your comments and appreciate any support-MSM" 3) What is friendly? His response is above and appears open to me. 3.3) What are the elements which define eco-sensitive developers 3.4 What are examples of eco-sensitivity of developers and this Developer? That is open to list interpretation but in my view it would included undertaking activities that incur cost or time with the benefit being for positive environmental impacts when less expensive or less time consuming environmentally damaging, degrading or neutral options are available. 4. Come up with a reasonable set of recommendations of Define ??reasonable Define recommendation vs required mitigation measures. Define ??reasonable?? budget (best practical, best available, maximum achievable). Again, open to list interpretation, but in my mind it is giving a list of suggestions (or if from a regulatory agency requirements) of environmentally positive activities that should accompany the development that does not create an undue burden (recall my analogy as to when we switch to hybrid cars from gas cars....only when the cost is reasonably close). 5. how they could proceed with the development while > protecting the reef? > 5.1 Need project environmental review, assessment, > statement, report??? > 5.2 Define ??protection measures???? Again, open to interpretation, but in my view if the concern is that the development will destroy the reef, then what must occur to develop the property without destroying the reef or what must they do to prove that what they are doing will not destroy the reef? I have suggested that we put together a voluntary scientific team to give them an honest assessment. 6. DeeVon Quirolo said this may not be possible > > 6.1 Please reference and document? Email from DeeVon follows, "Todd--the Discovery Bay Developers are already doing all the right things you suggested, the Problem is that it is too large a project for such as small island and the other problem is the golf course, whether they have constructed wetlands for the runoff set off from the shore (as they have told me) or not. Best, DeeVon" 7-10 The usual extreme arguments - Total Loss vs Total Protection Maximum Profit vs Minimum Profit I am not sure exactly what you mean here. Our world is defined by economics so yes there is always a trade off between money and scare resources that define money. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Williams" To: "Todd Barber" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Discovery Land Project Questions > TO: List > > We have had a long discussion of global thoughts and > now a local action. > > Provide responses to the below questions and I/list > can provide all sorts of measures which can be done to > reduce damages to less than 10% of "total". > > I still have issues with regard to "Reef Ball" > operations, relationships to "Developers", and > relationships between the Not-for-Profit" vs "For > Profit" elements and the use of the expertise of the > Coral List. > > Dr. Tom Williams > > +1-650-558-9590 > +1-323-528-4687 > +971-50-559-0210 > > Based on -- > From: "Todd Barber" reefball at reefball.com > To: coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:46:31 ?C0500 > Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project > > > 0. Reef Ball should define all direct and indrect > relationships of the RB organizations and associates, > contributors with the Developer or its associates, or > its consultants. Simple matrix. > > Okay everyone, here are the initial > Statement-Questioning: > > 1. CEO responded to me and IS open to discussion. > > 1.1 Can we see the CEO response and clearly define > ??open?? > > 2. WE HAVE AN OPENING AND AN OPPORTUNITY. > > 2.1 What sort of ??opening?? See 1.1 ? > > 2.2 What are the expressed, explicit opportunity - > See 1.1 ? > > 2.3 What are the expectations of the CEO ? > > 2.4 What are the expectations of the Coral List ? > > 3. His message was friendly and stated that they are > eco-sensitive developers. > > 3.1 What is friendly ?C See 1.1 ? > > 3.2 What are the elements which supports the > ??eco-sensitive?? for this Developer? > > 3.3 What are the elements which define ??eco-sensitive > developers??? > > 3.4 What are examples of eco-sensitivity of > ??developers?? and this Developer? > > 4. Come up with a reasonable set of recommendations of > > > 4.1 Define ??reasonable?? > > 4.2 Define recommendation vs required mitigation > measures > > 4.3 Define ??reasonable?? budget (best practical, best > available, maximum achievable?? ?? > > 5. how they could proceed with the development while > protecting the reef? > > 5.1 Need project environmental review, assessment, > statement, report??? > > 5.2 Define ??protection measures???? > > > 6. DeeVon Quirolo said this may not be possible > > 6.1 Please reference and document? > > 6.2 Why not possible, not practical (not profitable) > > 7. as the Development is too large for the Island. > > 7.1 Define too large for island > > 7.2 See Item 4.3 > > 8. If the development HAS to proceed what could the > developer do > > See Item 4 and others above. > > 9. Make it more reef friendly. (i.e. what would you > do if you had to build it)? > > 9.1 See above > > 9.2 This can be done; can they afford it? > > 10. Take a practical view here...minimizing reef > damage > > See above > > 10.1 How small is ??minimum?? > > 10.2 Why not > Best Practical Mitigation > Best Available Mitigation > Maximum Achievable Mitigation > Compensation > Least Profitable (30%, 20, 10, 8% IRR) > > 11. may be better than total reef loss > > 11.1 Define Minimum damage vs Total damage (=loss) > > > 12. even though total reef protection may be desired > but not possible. > > The usual extreme arguments - > Total Loss vs Total Protection > Maximum Profit vs Minimum Profit > > From c.wabnitz at fisheries.ubc.ca Wed Mar 15 21:16:24 2006 From: c.wabnitz at fisheries.ubc.ca (Colette Wabnitz) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:16:24 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Education is the key! In-Reply-To: <4416C084.7020205@khwisdom.com> Message-ID: <003501c6489f$9f9f8770$782f678e@aerl.ubc.dom> Dear List, A very useful, fun, approachable, successful and educational guide was developed by David Gulko and Karen Eckert entitled: Sea Turtles - an ecological guide (2003 - Mutual Publishing, Honolulu HI 128 pp). It is aimed specifically to accompany science courses dealing with marine science in middle schools, high schools, universities and colleges. Although it deals with, you guessed it, sea turtles, it is an incredibly well put together little booklet - and indeed indirectly relevant to corals (hawksbill turtles) and seagrass habitat (green turtles)! I strongly encourage you to have a look - and potentially something similar could be developed specifically targeting coral reef education! Regarding Patti's email and exchange of information: Students registered here at UBC and working as part of Project Seahorse, regularly have to answer 'kiddies mail'. These are letters from kids any age asking questions they have relevant to seahorses - it is an incredibly fun and enriching experience for kids and students alike! Again, potentially something similar could be set up at a number of schools/universities (through formal or informal partnerships for example?) Just some thoughts :o) Colette ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Colette Wabnitz, MSc PhD student/ FC student representative Sea Around Us Project, Fisheries Centre Aquatic Ecosystems Research Laboratory (AERL) University of British Columbia 2202 Main Mall Vancouver, BC V6T 1Z4 Tel: +1 604 822 1636 Fax: +1 604 822 8934 Email: c.wabnitz at fisheries.ubc.ca http://www.fisheries.ubc.ca/students/cwabnitz/ www.seaaroundus.org -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hedges Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:09 AM To: Patti Nicoll; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Education is the key! One of the big problems with working with very poor students, particularly minority students in urban environments is that they are still far behind technologically. Few of my students have computers at home, the library is not a very usefully option because time is limited to 20 minutes and if you have watched a person who is not comfortable with computer technology you will know they waste a lot of time figuring out what to do. I know that I am not offering solutions but if we are aware of problems maybe we can figure out ways to work around them. NOAA was instrumental in my student's life changing experience. They work with many students - a few at a time- and those few return home to tell their friends and relatives. The first hand accounts are well received. After our trip to Hawaii I was stopped on the street, in the grocery store, and at church by people who heard about our experience and who wanted to know more. Students at our school were excited to learn more from Alessandra. Patti Nicoll wrote: >As a teacher, I agree that education is the key. Although interaction of scientists with the public is important, it is also important to get students from different areas of the world dialoguing about what is happening in their area. Students respond very well to their peers. The students in coastal areas, provided they have a good teacher, will generally know a fair deal about threats to their region. Students in land-locked areas could benefit, and may just listen, to an exchange of information. The best way probably to do this is through web-chats, preferably including video (password protected connection). Unfortunately students today, due to the speediness of the world wide web, are not very patient when it comes to snail mail, but if it is the only option then it may still work. Once contact is made though, students and classes could exchange materials, perhaps sending care packages illustrating what the key components of their habitats are. The land-locked students c o > uld send information about their habitats as well, validating their contributions to the dialogue and trying to bridge connections between the two. I am on a crazy brainstorm right now and it is too late at night. If anyone has any further suggestions, please respond! >Thanks, >Patti >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From beliamall at dhivehinet.net.mv Wed Mar 15 21:19:43 2006 From: beliamall at dhivehinet.net.mv (William Allison) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:19:43 +0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project In-Reply-To: <025201c6486c$6df61730$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: Dear Todd, Your seem to register surprise that a developer would attempt to avoid an EIA or would interfere with performance of one. This seems na?ve but perhaps that is not what you meant to say. At any rate, it seems that in the vast majority of cases EIAs are treated as costs avoided where possible and minimized when unavoidable, so EIAs tend to be minimalist exercises or merely flam. Incidentally, this is often a mistake because irreparable damage may be done to coral reef environments, damage that causes chronic problems (coastal erosion, algal blooms, loss of amenities requiring restoration, etc) that bleed the developer or subsequent proprietor of palliative funds forever. Your proposal that government pay for the EIA and recoup the costs in taxes from the development seems to bias the EIA in favour of the development. Perhaps the responsibilities should be divided such that the developer pays the cost of immediate baseline and potential impact study and monitoring and the government is responsible for the more general baseline and monitoring essential for comparison and control. A possible way to keep the immediate study arms' length would be for the developer to pay a predetermined fee to government as partial payment for the right to develop the location. A general tax could contribute to ongoing monitoring etc - specific and general. Due diligence would be required to guard against the regulators being captured by the regulated (e.g., in an extreme example of a structure conducive to this, the developer pays private companies staffed by moonlighting government employees to do the EIA). In line with the arm's length requirement and strictly from a structural perspective, Mike's concern about having a company marketing artificial reefs intervening on behalf of the environment is understandable. Sincerely, Bill >I am not sure > I understand who a developer could reject this or how a developer should > even be involved in baseline data and on-going monitoring....that should be > something the governmental agencies do or other independent scientific or > NGO organizations do...as you stated it needs to be at arms length and I > don't think that the developer can reject anyone doing science in the water > near their development. > From: "Todd Barber" > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:09:56 -0500 > To: "Michael Risk" , > > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project > Resent-From: AOML.Coral-List at noaa.gov > Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:55:24 -0500 (EST) > > Hi Michael, > > First, it should be known that I have never suggested Reef Balls for Guana > Cay. I have simply offered to interviene between those interested in > preserving coral reefs and the developer to get a better outcome for the > reef. And in fact, the Reef Ball Foundation would ALWAYS prefer to save a > natural reef rather than having to resort to building an artificial one. > > But help me out here, it seems we have a Developer that is willing to > consider options to make the development have less impact on the reef and we > seem to have several scientists that can suggest "low impact" technologies > that might be appropriate. (And it actually appears from my investigation > that the Developer is trying to incorporate as many low impact features as > they can). We have you saying we need an independent (non-developer > sponsored) baseline and monitoring program which I agree with. Seems to me > like everyone is in agreement on what to do to move forward. I must be > missing something. > > You mentioned the developer "rejected" baseline & monitoring. I am not sure > I understand who a developer could reject this or how a developer should > even be involved in baseline data and on-going monitoring....that should be > something the governmental agencies do or other independent scientific or > NGO organizations do...as you stated it needs to be at arms length and I > don't think that the developer can reject anyone doing science in the water > near their development. It is a public policy issue if this information > needs to be gathered. Certainly it is not done for every development.... > for example, did you do a baseline and on-going monitoring on the impact to, > for example, bird nesting impacts when you built your home? Sometimes > government would say it was important to do so (in the event your house was > being developed on a historical bird nesting location) and sometimes they > would say it was not necessary. In the case of Guana Cay, I would say, > "yes" we need to baseline and monitor the coral reefs around Guana Cay > because the development is significant and the coral reef is important. So, > the government should bear that expense. It should be able to more than pay > for the studies with the increased tax revenues generated by the > development. > > My point in all of this is that as activists, if we are going to cry out > against development, we need to have alternatives, suggestions, and action > plans to help guide the development to minimize the negative impacts. Even > if faced with the complete halt of development we don't necessary achieve > victory and save the reef because the developer will just move to another > island with less resistance. That's why we need to give them assistance, > not necessarily resistance. > > I'll give you an example from my own life. I have always known since I was > young that the cars I drove contributes to coral reef's decline. Did I > drive a solar car? No, it was not practical. But two years ago they came > out with Hybrid cars. So, now both of my cars are hybrids. Science > provided me with a reasonable alternative...cost me a bit more but I know it > is better for the reefs. I think developers will do the same as science > offers then alternatives. > > Is there a way to use this opportunity of an open dialog with the developer > to accomplish something positive? > > > Thanks, > > Todd Barber > Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. > 3305 Edwards Court > Greenville, NC 27858 > reefball at reefball.com > > http://www.artificialreefs.org > http://www.reefball.org > http://www.reefball.com > > Direct: 252-353-9094 > mobile: 941-720-7549 > Fax 425-963-4119 > > Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball > Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation > Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: > Available upon request > > Atlanta/Athens Office > 890 Hill Street > Athens, GA 30606 USA > 770-752-0202 > (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Risk" > To: "Todd Barber" ; > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project > > >> Hello Todd. >> >> My involvement with the Guana Cay situation has been restricted to the >> writing of a short initial report, which was commissioned by the >> present inhabitants. I have no involvement at present. Nonetheless, I >> want my position on your actions to be crystal-clear to the -list: >> >> I am opposed to the use of Reef Balls or indeed any similar artificial >> reef structures in this case. There is no need for them when the reef >> is healthy. In fact, if you want to be of real use, try to ensure that >> Reef Balls are never needed on Guana. >> >> What would help is what the "eco-friendly" developer has already >> rejected. In this case, AND ALL SUCH CASES, there must be the following >> ingredients: >> >> 1. necessary and sufficient baseline data on fish, invertebrates, and >> nutrients. These data must be taken by qualified people, and at a >> research-grade level with proper QA/QC protocols. >> >> 2. there must be a long-term monitoring program established, carried >> out by an arms'-length agency (ie, NOT hired by and reporting to the >> developer). >> >> 3. all data must be distributed freely and archived in several >> locations. >> >> None of the above conditions have been met. >> >> Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From rbourke at oceanit.com Wed Mar 15 22:44:36 2006 From: rbourke at oceanit.com (Robert Bourke) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:44:36 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project Message-ID: Mike I respectively disagree with this approach. It is a recipe for merely cataloging and documenting the disaster as it occurs. There needs to be a real up-front effort to make this, or any other, coastal development has no long term negative impacts on the living marine coastal resources. Monitoring is only one piece of the puzzle. This is not to say that any coastal development should be allowed or is even a good idea, rather that any development must face up to their long term impact to the environment upon which their good fortune ultimately relies. Concepts of Low Impact Development and active management using primarily groundwater and runoff monitoring feedback programs are effective in many locations. For example, in Hawaii any new golf course must install lysimeters to check percolation through the vadoz zone and monitor ground water. This creates a feed-back loop to managers who then may adjust watering or fertilization rates. It appears to be working. Other impacts from energy consumption and shoreline erosion to sewerage disposal and water use likewise need to be examined from a more "holistic" viewpoint. You may be surprised at the environmental savings that can be banked by looking at the overall efficiency of the site development plan. Somewhat counter-intuitive to the prevalent chatter on this web site, the developer does not intend to ruin the environment upon which is investment is built - - he just has other more pressing prioritie$ during the frenzy of development. The line of reasoning with the greatest chance of success will appeal to the long term financial success of the development. It is possible to convince the most anti-environmental establishments to take a "green" approach if the argument is presented appropriately. Presently the largest environmental engineering company in the world is the US Army Corps of Engineers, and the largest user of Green development techniques is the US Military. While this is not intended to condone many other activities of these organizations, it should go to show that there are other long term benefits of green development that may appeal to a long-term land owner. Good Luck Bob Bourke Environmental Scientist (ex-marine biologist) Oceanit -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Michael Risk Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:45 AM To: Todd Barber; coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project Hello Todd. My involvement with the Guana Cay situation has been restricted to the writing of a short initial report, which was commissioned by the present inhabitants. I have no involvement at present. Nonetheless, I want my position on your actions to be crystal-clear to the -list: I am opposed to the use of Reef Balls or indeed any similar artificial reef structures in this case. There is no need for them when the reef is healthy. In fact, if you want to be of real use, try to ensure that Reef Balls are never needed on Guana. What would help is what the "eco-friendly" developer has already rejected. In this case, AND ALL SUCH CASES, there must be the following ingredients: 1. necessary and sufficient baseline data on fish, invertebrates, and nutrients. These data must be taken by qualified people, and at a research-grade level with proper QA/QC protocols. 2. there must be a long-term monitoring program established, carried out by an arms'-length agency (ie, NOT hired by and reporting to the developer). 3. all data must be distributed freely and archived in several locations. None of the above conditions have been met. Mike _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Todd Barber Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:10 AM To: Michael Risk; coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project Hi Michael, First, it should be known that I have never suggested Reef Balls for Guana Cay. I have simply offered to interviene between those interested in preserving coral reefs and the developer to get a better outcome for the reef. And in fact, the Reef Ball Foundation would ALWAYS prefer to save a natural reef rather than having to resort to building an artificial one. But help me out here, it seems we have a Developer that is willing to consider options to make the development have less impact on the reef and we seem to have several scientists that can suggest "low impact" technologies that might be appropriate. (And it actually appears from my investigation that the Developer is trying to incorporate as many low impact features as they can). We have you saying we need an independent (non-developer sponsored) baseline and monitoring program which I agree with. Seems to me like everyone is in agreement on what to do to move forward. I must be missing something. You mentioned the developer "rejected" baseline & monitoring. I am not sure I understand who a developer could reject this or how a developer should even be involved in baseline data and on-going monitoring....that should be something the governmental agencies do or other independent scientific or NGO organizations do...as you stated it needs to be at arms length and I don't think that the developer can reject anyone doing science in the water near their development. It is a public policy issue if this information needs to be gathered. Certainly it is not done for every development.... for example, did you do a baseline and on-going monitoring on the impact to, for example, bird nesting impacts when you built your home? Sometimes government would say it was important to do so (in the event your house was being developed on a historical bird nesting location) and sometimes they would say it was not necessary. In the case of Guana Cay, I would say, "yes" we need to baseline and monitor the coral reefs around Guana Cay because the development is significant and the coral reef is important. So, the government should bear that expense. It should be able to more than pay for the studies with the increased tax revenues generated by the development. My point in all of this is that as activists, if we are going to cry out against development, we need to have alternatives, suggestions, and action plans to help guide the development to minimize the negative impacts. Even if faced with the complete halt of development we don't necessary achieve victory and save the reef because the developer will just move to another island with less resistance. That's why we need to give them assistance, not necessarily resistance. I'll give you an example from my own life. I have always known since I was young that the cars I drove contributes to coral reef's decline. Did I drive a solar car? No, it was not practical. But two years ago they came out with Hybrid cars. So, now both of my cars are hybrids. Science provided me with a reasonable alternative...cost me a bit more but I know it is better for the reefs. I think developers will do the same as science offers then alternatives. Is there a way to use this opportunity of an open dialog with the developer to accomplish something positive? Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Risk" To: "Todd Barber" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Discovery Land Project > Hello Todd. > > My involvement with the Guana Cay situation has been restricted to the > writing of a short initial report, which was commissioned by the > present inhabitants. I have no involvement at present. Nonetheless, I > want my position on your actions to be crystal-clear to the -list: > > I am opposed to the use of Reef Balls or indeed any similar artificial > reef structures in this case. There is no need for them when the reef > is healthy. In fact, if you want to be of real use, try to ensure that > Reef Balls are never needed on Guana. > > What would help is what the "eco-friendly" developer has already > rejected. In this case, AND ALL SUCH CASES, there must be the following > ingredients: > > 1. necessary and sufficient baseline data on fish, invertebrates, and > nutrients. These data must be taken by qualified people, and at a > research-grade level with proper QA/QC protocols. > > 2. there must be a long-term monitoring program established, carried > out by an arms'-length agency (ie, NOT hired by and reporting to the > developer). > > 3. all data must be distributed freely and archived in several > locations. > > None of the above conditions have been met. > > Mike _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From pelejero at cmima.csic.es Thu Mar 16 03:40:16 2006 From: pelejero at cmima.csic.es (Carles Pelejero) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:40:16 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Session 9 - 6th European Coral Reef Conference Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060316093816.01f5af68@cucafera.icm.csic.es> Dear colleagues, We would like to draw your attention and invite submission of abstracts to the thematic session (number 9): Long-term large-scale observations of changes in reef communities II: - Ecological effects of ocean acidification and bleaching - Remote sensing and macroecological approaches to monitoring to be held at the 6th European Coral Reef Conference 2006 European Meeting of the International Society for Reef Studies (ISRS) 19-22 September 2006 in Bremen, Germany. Co-chairs of this session: Carles Pelejero and Hiroya Yamano Any efforts to preserve, protect and manage coral reefs need of reliable programs for quantitatively monitoring, mapping and assessing the dynamics of community distribution. This allows the investigation of environmental stressor-response relationships and provides the capability to efficiently screen and predict the current and future health of these biodiversity rich ecosystems. In this session, we wish to invite contributions covering a wide range of questions and scales. First, we aim at focusing on the emerging environmental problem of ocean acidification, both from an observational point of view, with actual instrumental measurements or proxy-derived trends in reef-water pH and other parameters of the CO2 system in seawater and, on the other hand, from an ecological perspective of possible threats that future acidification will pose to coral communities. Any kind of experimental work addressed to unravel this issue will be most welcome as a contribution to this session. Second, we would also like to invite contributions focused in the ecological effects of disturbances (e.g., coral bleaching) from different approaches, experimental, theoretical and from long-term large-scale observations. Third, we intend to assess and demonstrate the effectiveness of being able to monitor coral reefs and their surrounding environment using remote sensing, a powerful scientific discipline that continues to improve through advances in detector technologies, the acquisition of spectral information on bottom features, increases in the spatial and spectral resolution of sensors, as well as by improved computer capabilities and analysis methods. We strongly encourage contributions on the use of these techniques, with examples of successful applications in the understanding of coral reef communities and their unique ecosystems. If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May 15 at http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php. Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session [9] "Long-term large-scale observations of changes in reef communities II". Please also forward copies of the abstract (indicating whether you would prefer an oral or poster presentation) to us at: pelejero at cmima.csic.es and yamano at noumea.ird.nc. We look forward to your participation in this exciting meeting. Carles Pelejero and Hiroya Yamano Carles Pelejero Institut de Ci?ncies del Mar, CMIMA-CSIC Pg. Mar?tim de la Barceloneta, 37-49 08003 Barcelona, Catalonia (Spain) Tel: (34) 93 2309500 Ext: 1307 Fax: (34) 93 2309555 e-mail: pelejero at cmima.csic.es Hiroya Yamano - Visiting Researcher at IRD - UR 128 CoReUs, Institut de Recherche pour le Developpement BP A5 98848 Noumea Cedex, New Caledonia Tel: (687) 26 07 19 Fax: (687) 26 43 26 - Senior Researcher at NIES - Center for Global Environmental Research National Institute for Environmental Studies 16-2 Onogawa, Tsukuba, Ibaraki 305-8506, Japan e-mail: yamano at noumea.ird.nc --------------------------------------------------------- Carles Pelejero Institut de Ci?ncies del Mar, CMIMA-CSIC Pg. Mar?tim de la Barceloneta, 37-49 08003 Barcelona, Catalonia (Spain) Tel: (34) 93 2309500 Ext: 1307 Fax: (34) 93 2309555 e-mail: pelejero at cmima.csic.es --------------------------------------------------------- From Timothy.Skewes at csiro.au Thu Mar 16 07:34:17 2006 From: Timothy.Skewes at csiro.au (Timothy.Skewes at csiro.au) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:34:17 +1100 Subject: [Coral-List] Bleaching in NE Papua New Guinea Message-ID: During 15-21 February 2006, CSIRO scientists carried out a survey of the shallow reefs of the Lihir Island group in the north east PNG (3 deg 10 min S, 152 deg 35 min E). Primarily the trip was to carry out UVC surveys of reef fish and collect data on reef habitats. The Lihir Islands are high volcanic islands rising steeply from >2000m depth. They are quite small (the largest, Niolam, is about 16 km in diameter) and they all have narrow fringing reefs. Before the trip we checked the NOAA SST hot spot charts and noticed there was a persistent hotspot over north-eastern PNG, including the Lihir Islands. Sure enough, when we arrived we found that a significant proportion of the live coral on the shallow fringing reefs was bleached. Some corals had already died from the event, and others may have been lightly affected or were recovering (pale state). Initial estimates are that about a quarter to a third of all live corals were bleached, and a smaller proportion had already died. Data was collected that will provide a better estimate of overall bleaching, including more detail on the spatial distribution and growth forms affected. The team also collected high resolution photographs of fixed sites to enable us to assess the bleaching impact in more detail and also to assess the demise or recovery of corals post bleaching event. At this stage, we propose to revisit the fixed sites in April 2006 to investigate the mortality or recovery rates of bleached corals and to establish a framework for assessing the long term effects of coral bleaching on the ecology of this tropical reef system. Timothy Skewes, Fisheries ecologist, CSIRO Division of Marine and Atmospheric Research PO Box 120, Cleveland, Q 4163, Australia e-mail: timothy.skewes at csiro.au Phone : (+63) 7 3826 7249 Fax : (+63) 7 3826 7222 From cnidaria at earthlink.net Thu Mar 16 09:51:18 2006 From: cnidaria at earthlink.net (James M Cervino) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:51:18 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Unsustainable Development Message-ID: Mr Barber and Bourke, Your intentions are evident as you are simply playing into the hands of the Developer to obtain this account to place concrete "Balls" along the limestone coast where this proposed golf course will go. However, if you were to post a note on the coral-list as speaking out against this development while wanting to DONATE your "concrete balls" to the environmental group for coastal erosion-protection, then your intentions would be justified as environmentally respectable. Are you aware that your "Balls" will be quickly overgrown with Macro-algae once this golf course is implemented ? There is an example of an artificial reef that someone placed close to shore where mangroves were clear cut. These structures were placed in the sediment within 10-15 feet depth of water and are completely smothered with macro-algae which should serve as a model for you; that surrounding this island with "concrete balls" will simply not protect the living remaining 100-200 year old corals that are already stressed. At least the environmental group on Guana is pushing to protect the remaining living tissue residing on the surfaces of these coral skeletons as they seem to understand what "critical levels" of nutrients mean in an oligotrophic reef system. All they are trying to do is stop this small island from being over developed with 300 condo units and a golf course. No sound person would back such a plan on an island that is approximately 2-3km in length. (one can walk around this island in 30min). Any logical scientist will tell you that this development will fertilize the reef and increase the abundance of macro algae species within this habitat, thereby threatening this already thermally stressed coral reef ecosystem. Have your and your scientific advisors reviewed this golf course proposal? I doubt it, as you would then be aware that they are going to dredge this area as well which will further add stress to this reef. Mr. Barber; there are many publications out there that show how sediment loading can effect coral physiology, here is one such publication that I can forward to you (Peters, E. 1984. A survey of cellular reactions to environmental stress and disease in Caribbean scleractinian corals. Helgol. Meeresunters. 37: 113-137. Your so called environmentally conscious Reef Ball Team may not have an understanding of the sensitive cellular mechanisms and physiology of symbiotic reef building corals. If you did you would not be trying to help this developer in any way. You may not be aware of this as, coral reefs are known to be the most nutrient sensitive ecosystems. Coral reefs can become "eutrophic", that is, overgrown by weedy algae, at nutrient levels that are so low that they would indicate nutrient starvation in any other ecosystem. This golf course will be a point source and will create hazardous high levels of nutrients into this coastal zone. Any nutrient drainage into this area will cause the reefs to deteriorate further. Here are some papers that you can read about reef stress before you just stamp your letter of approval onto this project (P. Bell,1992, Eutrophication and coral reefs: some examples in the Great Barrier Reef lagoon, Water Research, 26: 553-568; B. Lapointe, & M. Clark, 1992, Nutrient inputs from the watershed and coastal eutrophication in the Florida Keys, Estuaries, 15: 465-476; B. Lapointe, in press, Eutrophication thresholds for macroalgal overgrowth of coral reefs, in K. Thacker (Ed.) Protecting Jamaica's Coral Reefs: Water quality issues). Dear Mr. Bob Bourke Environmental Scientist (ex-marine biologist), do you call this a sound project? You said that: "Concepts of Low Impact Development and active management using primarily groundwater and runoff monitoring feedback programs are effective in many locations. We say that we have no time to monitor anything! The Discovery & Co. EIA plans are to dredge up a portion of the 1 mile island, dump the sediment onto the surrounding reef and add soil fill combined with quartz sand for this golf course. This limestone substrate will act as a permeable filter for the nutrients to leach out into the reef thereby feeding the invasive species. Here is some information for you Mr Bourke regarding levels of nutrients that are critical in a living reef system: 1.0 micromoles per litre of nitrogen as nitrate and ammonia 0.1 micromoles per litre of phosphorous as ortho-phosphate and organophosphate. These values are in the molecular concentration units used by chemists and oceanographers. In the weight units more often used in the wastewater literature these translate into: Nitrogen: 0.014 ppm N or 0.040 ppm NO3 Phosphorous 0.003 ppm P or 0.007 ppm PO4 I hope that more people will speak out against this type of development given the state of the worlds reefs are in today. If we cannot convince the US administration to control atmospheric carbon dioxide that is responsible for thermal stress in corals at least we can help the peoples of Guana protect their reef from a developer that cares nothing about the corals and the fish that live within this habitat. -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Biologist Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Mar 16 08:35:42 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:35:42 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] The blind men and the elephant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bill. Good to hear from you-and, as usual, spot-on. I have no wish to enter into any protracted discussion-life has more to offer than postings on coral-list. Nonetheless, there has been a flurry of postings recently, about education, reef resiliency, sexy scientists, etc-the thread running through all this input is concern for the resource. When it comes to putting action behind passion, however, the -list reminds me of the old Persian fable of the blind men describing the elephant. One guy grabs the trunk, says "It's very like a snake!", next guy runs into a leg, says "No, it resembles a tree..." and so on. In this debate, we have heard about people's favorite NGO, or foundation, or activity (most involving the sender). We have heard little from people who can see the whole elephant. I come back to the fact that this field badly needs a very few widely-respected, forceful, articulate spokespersons. It is in the nature of the field that these will be hard to find. With regard to Guana Cay, specifically: I read the response from the Discovery Land CEO as the usual bafflegab. There was no offer of mutual cooperation. If Todd Barber can get those people to agree with the necessary (but not sufficient) conditions I outlined, then my hat is off to him. With regard to the general issue of development vs reefs: Robert Bourke "disagrees" with me, but I am not sure what he means. Surely no one imagines that monitoring is an end unto itself??!! Monitoring is one leg of the MEC triumvirate. Relax, Canadian readers, this does not refer to Mountain Equipment Co-op, but rather to Monitoring, Enforcement and Control. The cop with the radar gun is Monitoring. When she pulls you over, that's Enforcement. If she spent all day behind the radar gun, nothing would be done. Another useful troika of concepts is detection-identification-remediation. Detection is via monitoring, using biology. Identification is geochemistry. Remediation is politics. There is no doubt that some development can be done with minimal impact. Robert cites golf courses in Hawaii-I understand some of them are OK, but before I make my mind up I would want to consult with Bob Richmond. In any event. ALL the developments with small footprints of which I am aware have been co-operatively designed-and that ain't happening at Guana. My understanding is that there are inadequate baseline data, and that what little monitoring is under way is being done by volunteers. (I can just imagine the dialogue in court...) Tom Williams' post was hard to decipher, perhaps because my server screwed up the formatting, but seemed to be largely critical. We need positive thinking and acting-although "positive" is hard to define. I have hold of the tusk. I am thinking "This is hard. This will be hard to digest." Mike From reefball at reefball.com Thu Mar 16 11:40:51 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:40:51 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Unsustainable Development References: Message-ID: <041501c64918$6349c6e0$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hi James, Thank you for your comments. We are certainly aware of the impacts to coral reefs from a wide range of factors from sedimentation, nutrient run-off, heat stress, and other human stress factors. I doubt there is anyone on this list that is not painfully aware of the problems facing all of our worlds reef ecosystems. I want to make a few things perfectly clear.....so that people understand where Reef Ball Foundation stands on this project. 1) We are not "assisting" the developer to destroy the reef or playing into their hands....I have only suggested that if legal efforts to stop the development fail then we (and I hope by WE I mean not just the Foundation but all scientists and organizations subscribing to this list) should at least aid the developer to use the best practices and conservation techniques to preserve as much as possible. I personally believe that this ethic should be followed by anyone that has developed new scientific techniques or methods to aid in the preservation, conservation, rehabilitation or heath of reefs. 2) I have NOT proposed Reef Balls for this project. (In fact, I have not investigated the site at all). Reef Ball Foundation's interest in this project at this stage is only to assist in the protection of the natural reef and related ecosystems and our involvement came about from reading all the comments on the Coral List about this project. [Honest disclaimer: This is not to say that some of our technology might not be applicable to the project...for example if the development proceeds there may be a need to plant new red mangroves for estuary habitat or to create a genetic coral banks for safe keeping of corals that might be impacted, or mitigation for damages actually caused, etc. Doing any type of minimal impact development requires a host of technologies to achieve less impact than standard developmental practices.] 3) What I have offered to the client is to try to pull together a team of independent VOLUNTEER scientists to give them an honest opinion of what could be done to minimize the developmental impacts should they be given legal permission to develop. Efforts are already underway to put together this team. Independent means that the scientists should not be linked to either side, the developer or the community of opposition. 4) Reef Ball Foundation does not get involved with local politics....therefore we have no opinion on the legal issues of this project. It is up to the local people and the Bahamian legal system to determine if the developer has a right to develop the island. I, personally, am never in favor of any particular project when negative impacts to the reefs are likely. HOWEVER, I am a practical person and if a project is going to proceed anyway I will always offer whatever knowledge or assistance I can to help minimize those impacts to the reef. One can oppose development, yet still have a positive influence if the development proceeds. [Note: The Reef Ball Foundation has always had a policy of not getting involved in local politics because we do work in so many countries and politics can hamper our ability to deliver solutions to local problems. Most of our staff and volunteers have personal opinions about local issues and as individuals we sometimes express these ideas but not as an organization]. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "James M Cervino" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:51 AM Subject: [Coral-List] Unsustainable Development > Mr Barber and Bourke, > > > Your intentions are evident as you are simply playing into the hands > of the Developer to obtain this account to place concrete "Balls" > along the limestone coast where this proposed golf course will go. > However, if you were to post a note on the coral-list as speaking out > against this development while wanting to DONATE your "concrete > balls" to the environmental group for coastal erosion-protection, > then your intentions would be justified as environmentally > respectable. Are you aware that your "Balls" will be quickly > overgrown with Macro-algae once this golf course is implemented ? > There is an example of an artificial reef that someone placed close > to shore where mangroves were clear cut. These structures were > placed in the sediment within 10-15 feet depth of water and are > completely smothered with macro-algae which should serve as a model > for you; that surrounding this island with "concrete balls" will > simply not protect the living remaining 100-200 year old corals that > are already stressed. > > At least the environmental group on Guana is pushing to protect the > remaining living tissue residing on the surfaces of these coral > skeletons as they seem to understand what "critical levels" of > nutrients mean in an oligotrophic reef system. All they are trying to > do is stop this small island from being over developed with 300 > condo units and a golf course. No sound person would back such a plan > on an island that is approximately 2-3km in length. (one can walk > around this island in 30min). > > Any logical scientist will tell you that this development will > fertilize the reef and increase the abundance of macro algae species > within this habitat, thereby threatening this already thermally > stressed coral reef ecosystem. Have your and your scientific advisors > reviewed this golf course proposal? I doubt it, as you would then be > aware that they are going to dredge this area as well which will > further add stress to this reef. Mr. Barber; there are many > publications out there that show how sediment loading can effect > coral physiology, here is one such publication that I can forward to > you (Peters, E. 1984. A survey of cellular reactions to > environmental stress and disease in Caribbean scleractinian corals. > Helgol. Meeresunters. 37: 113-137. Your so called environmentally > conscious Reef Ball Team may not have an understanding of the > sensitive cellular mechanisms and physiology of symbiotic reef > building corals. If you did you would not be trying to help this > developer in any way. > > You may not be aware of this as, coral reefs are known to be the most > nutrient sensitive ecosystems. Coral reefs can become "eutrophic", > that is, overgrown by weedy algae, at nutrient levels that are so low > that they would indicate nutrient starvation in any other ecosystem. > This golf course will be a point source and will create hazardous > high levels of nutrients into this coastal zone. Any nutrient > drainage into this area will cause the reefs to deteriorate further. > Here are some papers that you can read about reef stress before you > just stamp your letter of approval onto this project (P. Bell,1992, > Eutrophication and coral reefs: some examples in the Great Barrier > Reef lagoon, Water Research, 26: 553-568; B. Lapointe, & M. Clark, > 1992, Nutrient inputs from the watershed and coastal eutrophication > in the Florida Keys, Estuaries, 15: 465-476; B. Lapointe, in press, > Eutrophication thresholds for macroalgal overgrowth of coral reefs, > in K. Thacker (Ed.) Protecting Jamaica's Coral Reefs: Water quality > issues). > > > Dear Mr. Bob Bourke Environmental Scientist (ex-marine biologist), do > you call this a sound project? > > You said that: "Concepts of Low Impact Development and active > management using primarily groundwater and runoff monitoring > feedback programs are effective in many locations. > > We say that we have no time to monitor anything! The Discovery & Co. > EIA plans are to dredge up a portion of the 1 mile island, dump the > sediment onto the surrounding reef and add soil fill combined with > quartz sand for this golf course. This limestone substrate will act > as a permeable filter for the nutrients to leach out into the reef > thereby feeding the invasive species. Here is some information for > you Mr Bourke regarding levels of nutrients that are critical in a > living reef system: > > 1.0 micromoles per litre of nitrogen as nitrate and ammonia > 0.1 micromoles per litre of phosphorous as ortho-phosphate and > organophosphate. > These values are in the molecular concentration units used by > chemists and oceanographers. In the weight units more often used in > the wastewater literature these translate into: > Nitrogen: 0.014 ppm N or 0.040 ppm NO3 > Phosphorous 0.003 ppm P or 0.007 ppm PO4 > > I hope that more people will speak out against this type of > development given the state of the worlds reefs are in today. If we > cannot convince the US administration to control atmospheric carbon > dioxide that is responsible for thermal stress in corals at least we > can help the peoples of Guana protect their reef from a developer > that cares nothing about the corals and the fish that live within > this habitat. > > -- > ************************************************** > Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. > Marine Biologist > Department of Biological & Health Sciences > Pace University New York NYC > Phone: (917) 620-5287 > Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org > *************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From jurychri at msu.edu Thu Mar 16 12:09:02 2006 From: jurychri at msu.edu (Christopher Paul Jury) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:09:02 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Unsustainable Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wholeheartedly agree that this development would likely destroy the reef and that reef balls are not the answer, but I'm concernced that the nutrient dynamics on reefs are being oversimplified. While the paradigm in the past has been that any sort of nutrient enrichment is deleterious to reefs, experience and research has shown that this is not the case. This issue has been reviewed by Szmant (2002. Nutrient enrichment on coral reefs: Is it a major cause of coral reef decline? ESTUARIES 25 (4B): 743-766.) The ENCORE project, for the most part, failed to produce the expected results of nutrient enrichment (e.g. increased macroalgal biomass) in nutrient conditions comparable even to polluted reefs. Falter, Atkinson, et al. have demonstrated the uptake of dissolved nutrients to reef benthos to be largely a mass transfer limited process (e.g. Falter JL, Atkinson MJ, Coimbra CFM. 2005.Effects of surface roughness and oscillatory flow on the dissolution of plaster forms: Evidence for nutrient mass transfer to coral reef communities. LIMNOLOGY AND OCEANOGRAPHY 50 (1): 246-254.) and they have also demonstrated this rate is relatively slow. Thus, the benthos are barely able to take-up DIN and DIP from the water before it flows away to sea. In addition, the importance of herbivory in controlling algal growth and abundance has been demonstrated in numerous studies. It appears that both bottom-up and top-down controls on macroalgal abundance exist, though macroalgae rarely increase even under nutrient enrichment when sufficient herbivores are present. The more likely causes for decline of the reef would be stress due to sedimentation (leading to mortality) and an inability of the reef to recover after disturbance. Turf and macroalgae species are usually the first colonists (besides microbes) on freshly killed coral surfaces. These can then effectively trap sediment (Stamski RE, Field ME. 2006. Characterization of sediment trapped by macroalgae on a Hawaiian reef flat.ESTUARINE COASTAL AND SHELF SCIENCE 66 (1-2): 211-216.) which provides and inhospitable enironment for the settlement of planulae. Thus, any damage done to the reef becomes irreparable due to a lack of recruitment. While there are several well-documented cases of eutrophication leading to degredation of reefs (e.g. Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii) it is an oversimplification to say that any nurtient enrichment at all will prove deleterious. Nutrient dynamics on reefs are more complex than what can be explained stictly by nutrient concentrations or nutrient loading. But again, this project would, with little doubt, kill the reef in a short time. Let us all hope it is haulted. Best regards, Chris Jury James M Cervino writes: > Mr Barber and Bourke, > > > Your intentions are evident as you are simply playing into the hands > of the Developer to obtain this account to place concrete "Balls" > along the limestone coast where this proposed golf course will go. > However, if you were to post a note on the coral-list as speaking out > against this development while wanting to DONATE your "concrete > balls" to the environmental group for coastal erosion-protection, > then your intentions would be justified as environmentally > respectable. Are you aware that your "Balls" will be quickly > overgrown with Macro-algae once this golf course is implemented ? > There is an example of an artificial reef that someone placed close > to shore where mangroves were clear cut. These structures were > placed in the sediment within 10-15 feet depth of water and are > completely smothered with macro-algae which should serve as a model > for you; that surrounding this island with "concrete balls" will > simply not protect the living remaining 100-200 year old corals that > are already stressed. > > At least the environmental group on Guana is pushing to protect the > remaining living tissue residing on the surfaces of these coral > skeletons as they seem to understand what "critical levels" of > nutrients mean in an oligotrophic reef system. All they are trying to > do is stop this small island from being over developed with 300 > condo units and a golf course. No sound person would back such a plan > on an island that is approximately 2-3km in length. (one can walk > around this island in 30min). > > Any logical scientist will tell you that this development will > fertilize the reef and increase the abundance of macro algae species > within this habitat, thereby threatening this already thermally > stressed coral reef ecosystem. Have your and your scientific advisors > reviewed this golf course proposal? I doubt it, as you would then be > aware that they are going to dredge this area as well which will > further add stress to this reef. Mr. Barber; there are many > publications out there that show how sediment loading can effect > coral physiology, here is one such publication that I can forward to > you (Peters, E. 1984. A survey of cellular reactions to > environmental stress and disease in Caribbean scleractinian corals. > Helgol. Meeresunters. 37: 113-137. Your so called environmentally > conscious Reef Ball Team may not have an understanding of the > sensitive cellular mechanisms and physiology of symbiotic reef > building corals. If you did you would not be trying to help this > developer in any way. > > You may not be aware of this as, coral reefs are known to be the most > nutrient sensitive ecosystems. Coral reefs can become "eutrophic", > that is, overgrown by weedy algae, at nutrient levels that are so low > that they would indicate nutrient starvation in any other ecosystem. > This golf course will be a point source and will create hazardous > high levels of nutrients into this coastal zone. Any nutrient > drainage into this area will cause the reefs to deteriorate further. > Here are some papers that you can read about reef stress before you > just stamp your letter of approval onto this project (P. Bell,1992, > Eutrophication and coral reefs: some examples in the Great Barrier > Reef lagoon, Water Research, 26: 553-568; B. Lapointe, & M. Clark, > 1992, Nutrient inputs from the watershed and coastal eutrophication > in the Florida Keys, Estuaries, 15: 465-476; B. Lapointe, in press, > Eutrophication thresholds for macroalgal overgrowth of coral reefs, > in K. Thacker (Ed.) Protecting Jamaica's Coral Reefs: Water quality > issues). > > > Dear Mr. Bob Bourke Environmental Scientist (ex-marine biologist), do > you call this a sound project? > > You said that: "Concepts of Low Impact Development and active > management using primarily groundwater and runoff monitoring > feedback programs are effective in many locations. > > We say that we have no time to monitor anything! The Discovery & Co. > EIA plans are to dredge up a portion of the 1 mile island, dump the > sediment onto the surrounding reef and add soil fill combined with > quartz sand for this golf course. This limestone substrate will act > as a permeable filter for the nutrients to leach out into the reef > thereby feeding the invasive species. Here is some information for > you Mr Bourke regarding levels of nutrients that are critical in a > living reef system: > > 1.0 micromoles per litre of nitrogen as nitrate and ammonia > 0.1 micromoles per litre of phosphorous as ortho-phosphate and organophosphate. > These values are in the molecular concentration units used by > chemists and oceanographers. In the weight units more often used in > the wastewater literature these translate into: > Nitrogen: 0.014 ppm N or 0.040 ppm NO3 > Phosphorous 0.003 ppm P or 0.007 ppm PO4 > > I hope that more people will speak out against this type of > development given the state of the worlds reefs are in today. If we > cannot convince the US administration to control atmospheric carbon > dioxide that is responsible for thermal stress in corals at least we > can help the peoples of Guana protect their reef from a developer > that cares nothing about the corals and the fish that live within > this habitat. > > -- > ************************************************** > Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. > Marine Biologist > Department of Biological & Health Sciences > Pace University New York NYC > Phone: (917) 620-5287 > Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org > *************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From sbecker at beautifuloceans.com Thu Mar 16 12:57:44 2006 From: sbecker at beautifuloceans.com (Stephan) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:57:44 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Beautiful Oceans - a corporate framework for coral reef conservation asking for support Message-ID: <007e01c64923$20a2eff0$660fa8c0@gaia> Dear List, ? My name is Stephan Becker ? I am the co-founder of Beautiful Oceans (www.beautifuloceans.com), a company offering coral reef science courses to scuba divers and snorkelers. 10% of our profits or 1% of our sales ? whatever is greater ? is donated annually to three partner NGO?s working in the field of coral reef conservation. We are member of 1% For The Planet (www.onepercentfortheplanet.org), an association of businesses donating at least 1% of their sales to the environment. My initial idea was actually to set up a not-for profit organization, but my experience as a marine expedition leader for Coral Cay Conservation in 2002 (www.coralcay.org) taught me that there are lots of very talented NGO?s out there already, but mostly struggling for funding. So I changed plans and set up Beautiful Oceans as a corporate framework for marine conservation. We think that in giving back to the natural environment, businesses can have a tremendous impact on the future of our planet. We are profoundly convinced that there is a way of doing business while doing good. ? Together with my partner, Ian Popple, a marine Scientist from McGill University we spent two month in the Caribbean, where we have set up two ?Science Dive & Snorkel Centers? in Barbados and Grenada respectively. These dive centers will now start selling our educational courses to diving tourists. At the same occasion, we have contacted local secondary schools to offer our first online course ?Coral Reef Architecture & Organisms? for free to their students. Currently, students in Grenada are learning about coral reefs in the Beautiful Oceans eAcademy ? our state-of-the-art eLearning environment. The first secondary school in Barbados is going online this month as part of an island-wide pilot project with plans to extend our course offerings for free to nine other secondary schools in the island. At the same time, we have entered a partnership with the Caribbean Conservation Association, CCA (http://www.ccanet.net/). Besides offering our courses to their staff, CCA will be using the Beautiful Oceans eAcademy for uploading a coral reef course for kids called ?People & Coral?, spreading coral reef education to the younger generation in the island. ? The reason for my post to the list is two-fold: ? 1. We are a young Canadian start-up company and need all the help we can get to succeed our original business concept. We would like to be able to tell other businesses 'Please, change your focus, and give back to the environment!'. We would like to be living proof that 'Doing good is good for business? and thus convince more businesses to donate more money for environmental causes. ? You can help us achieving this in two ways: ? a) Take part in our affiliate program and spread the word about Beautiful Oceans while perceiving a commission: Besides our annual donation to coral reef conservation, we have set up an affiliate program, allowing us to reward organizations and individuals that talk about us and thus help us in achieving our objectives. Affiliates obtain 10% for each customer coming from their website or blogsite, whether this customer buys a coral reef course from us now, tomorrow or in one year. We are hoping that our affiliate program will provide additional income to NGO?s maintaining a blog or website. Signing up is easy: http://www.beautifuloceans.com/idevaffiliate/ ? 2. Colette Wabnitz of UBC yesterday talked about the fun involved answering ?kiddies mail? (snip) ? Students registered here at UBC and working as part of Project Seahorse, regularly have to answer 'kiddies mail'. These are letters from kids any age asking questions they have relevant to seahorses - it is an incredibly fun and enriching experience for kids and students alike! Again, potentially something similar could be set up at a number of schools/universities (through formal or informal partnerships for example?) ? (snip). Our Beautiful Oceans eAcademy will soon be filled up with school kids from Barbados learning about coral reefs ? and the idea of marine biology students being available to answer some of their questions through forums seems very enticing to me maybe to you too? If there are interested people or organizations reading this message, please get in touch with me, I would be more than delighted to make this happen : sbecker at beautifuloceans.com ? I hope you do not find this posting too intrusive ? and I apologize in advance to those who may find it ?inappropriate for the list? ? but I also firmly believe in the power of partnerships between the private and the not-for-profit sector in our quest of advancing coral reef conservation on all levels what better place than sharing this idea with you in an open list? ? I wish you all a beautiful day, Stephan ?? Beautiful Oceans Stephan Becker BBA, MMH, DiplEnv. President CEO 1125, Avenue Lajoie, unit #1 Montreal (QC) H2V 1N7 Canada ? Phone 1: 1-800-930-4078 Phone 2: 1-(514)-907-1935 Fax: 1-(514)-461-0878 sbecker at beautifuloceans.com www.beautifuloceans.com ? "In the end, we will conserve only what we love, we will love only what we understand, we will understand only what we are taught." From erik at notesfromtheroad.com Thu Mar 16 13:00:32 2006 From: erik at notesfromtheroad.com (Erik Gauger) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:00:32 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Islanders and the Big Picture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Todd - I want to address some of the issues that you've raised here. You are making the assumption that you are somehow the first person to make a friendly gesture towards the developer and that your email and the reply from Mike Meldman somehow shows progress. In fact, this has happened several times before, and several scientists have in fact attempted to work with the developer and provide them with data or advice and recommendations - remember that there are no coral scientists in their employ that anyone is aware of. They are fisheries and botanical scientists. There are a lot of related issues in the Discovery Land Company project, and they all fit together like a puzzle. The scientific consensus indicates that this development is too big to be resolved by incremental technology suggestions - this is a massive project on a tiny island. The island is 7 miles long. 3 of those miles will essentially be mowed down - and a huge marina will literally be cut out of the island and will nearly butt up against the beach. All evidence suggests that despite any menial steps the developer has taken to slow the nutrient increases into the coral reef - they cannot prove that they can get anywhere close to the nutrient levels required to keep the reef alive. But this coral issue is more complex than just nutrients. Look at the amount of mangroves being pulled out, the gray water from the marina that will leach into the island's only fishery, the massive silting that will be caused a dredging project that will in many ways equal the earlier failed Disney dredging project. The developer is not addressing any of these concerns publicly - if they have the answers, which they claim they do, their answers would be in use right now by developments around the world. One thing that coral conservationists should address is the idea that in almost every instance, the local community with long-term interest in its land and community has an innate understanding of their land and the consequences in the future - coral conservationist MUST see the community as their first ally. By fiercely opposing and avoiding public consultation with the locals, the developer has made it clear that they don't want to work with the community at all. In Meldman's email to you, he called the local's concerns 'a smear campaign.' This is an incredible statement: In every instance, I have seen the locals take the high road, although certainly if their way of life is at risk, they are not required to take the high road. But they do - and they should be commended by us for it. It is incredibly amazing that on an island of 170 people, the locals have taught themselves coral conservation and have chosen to work with the right people. Their message has always been a scientific one, a legal one and a community one. On the other hand, I have plenty of emails where the environmental spokesperson for Discovery Land Company literally mocked the scientists trying to help the locals. Additionally, this same spokesperson has called my work defamatory and called into question my right to report on this matter, because I am myself a foreigner. You have all been talking about worldwide coral issues for the past two weeks. This is a good example of ordinary people - traditional Bahamian fishermen, grocery store owners and cottage owners - bringing very relevant conservation issues to the forefront. I strongly believe that the best way to 'act locally' is to support the local's efforts and concerns. If you believe mangroves are essential to coastline ecology or you believe coral reefs require a low nutrient level; then this message, and the best result, will be found through the message of these fishermen and grocery store owners. If they happen to come to agreement with the developer by having their environmental concerns answered - then that is a wonderful outcome. But if the developer has to leave the Bahamas, then the islanders of Guana Cay have done a great service to places like Fiji or the Cayman Islands - by setting a higher standard for developers building adjacent to coral reefs. Todd - we should always encourage people like you who are willing to offer advice to a developer. But - we have to see all developments as part of a community; and when they are not - when they cannot work out the scientific concerns with the community whose grandchildren must make their living from the ocean - then that developer disqualifies themselves from the right to change the environmental and cultural face of the island. Several people have mentioned golf courses in Hawaii. There is a big difference, in my opinion. Hawaii courses are often high up on cliffs; there is plenty of land between them and the sea. Plus, the reef itself is often far out at sea. The water is different there - its deep water ocean. The two cannot be compared. Here, the cays are tiny - only ? mile wide in some instances. If you pour a glass of water into the limestone rock, the water disappears. In a few months, that water has soaked into the reef. But the developer plans to have 300-400 foot boats (its in a link in their website) in their marina. Imagine the gasoline, the gray water, the pollution, the golf course nutrients - these questions are not being answered. As long as these questions are not being answered and the environmental concerns satisfied, lets work with the islanders themselves - they are, oddly enough, the ones raising the biggest questions in the coral-development world right now. Todd, you said this, "...in my view if the concern is that the development will destroy the reef, then what must occur to develop the property without destroying the reef or what must they do to prove that what they are doing will not destroy the reef? I have suggested that we put together a voluntary scientific team to give them an honest assessment." There is already a voluntary scientific team in place, acting on behalf of the islanders. They are monitoring the reef independently and are doing so pro bono. Also, the developer 'hides' the fact that there is a coral reef in their literature. If you look at their maps of the proposed development and their glossy literature, the reef is erased. They don't need the reef to make their billions. This model relies on golf and a marina to sell this property. Erik From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Thu Mar 16 13:49:16 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:49:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Blind men and the elephant - Cays and Corals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060316184916.73407.qmail@web50414.mail.yahoo.com> Mike/Todd/List My basic idea was taking what Todd had put on and get rid of the spectulation and get down to what the "developer" means as reasonable and practical - what is the commitment. I have prepared or contributed to more than 300 EIA, EIS, EIR, etc. and watched how the "recommended mitigations" became required mitigation and became the "Environmental Management Plan". All of these reflected that many scientists can provide measures to eliminate/mitigate/compensate for the damages. Now measures are assigned for "significant" impacts. For me, ANY impacts on the coral reef can be SIGNIFICANT. Todd referred to measures already accepted, scientists involved, but offers no specifics and no further details as to what we can expect if we provide our time - less than one week. I have worked on the same issues in Kahe Point, Ohau (30 years ago), Nakheel islands in Dubai (1995-2005), and similar project in Bahrain (2005-2006). Measures are easy, funding/implementation are the problems, why should we contribute unless the "Developer" is going to implement. I can give you at least three alternatives to every impact on the corals. I have seen many requirements, regulations, and laws passed and not enforced. Let's not give measures if the Developer has no commitment to implement. Thinking POSITIVE is easy, ACTING POSITIVE is expensive. Let's look at the costs. $500M capital investment 30% annual rate of return 3-5 year repayment of capital costs $150M annual profit Envir. Contribution - Example - 80Kft x 200ft = 16,000,000 sq ft = $10/sq ft = 3.0% annually So Set 10% of capital and 10% of profits for 10 years. Is this POSITIVE???? I once told a developer that he could get his permit if he put into bank guarantee - $1M for use by the environ. agency - he chose to await agency process/procedures. So let's give the Developer a proposal and see where he goes. But let's document the process for use by both sides. Tom Williams 1-650-558-9590 SF 1-323-528-4687 SF +971-50-559-0210 Dubai From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Thu Mar 16 17:29:40 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:29:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Few Facts for Guana Cay Islanders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060316222940.25581.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> Just Some Facts Dr. L.Marshall is "educated", "qualified" marine biologist based on degrees and previous positions. Bahamas Business News June 13, 2005 ?C 07:40 Baker's Bay To Implement 7-Point Plan To Sustainable Development Senior Vice-President of the Environment & Community Affairs[for Project, Discovery Lands], Dr Livingston Marshall in his recent address to members of the Rotary Club of New Providence, Dr Marshall outlined the Baker's Bay design philosophy that reportedly utilizes the BEST AVAILABLE (emphasis added) technologies to construct residential resort communities with the HIGHEST ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS AND MANAGEMENT PRACTICES (emphasis added). ----------------------------------------------------- Dr. Livingston S. Marshall, Jr. Dr. Livingston Marshall Jr., worked as a Consultant and Science Advisor in the Office of the Prime Minister (OPM), Nassau, Bahamas. Prior to taking this position, Dr. Marshall held faculty positions at Morgan State University, Clark Atlanta University, and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore. His academic accomplishments include a Bachelors degree in Marine Science from Hampton University and a Ph.D. in Marine Science from the College of William and Mary, School of Marine Science, Virginia Institute of Marine Science. His 15+ years of professional research experience in marine and estuarine systems has focused on applied fisheries, habitat restoration, ecosystem monitoring, conservation, and environmental policy. As a Consultant and Science Advisor to the Prime Minister and Government of The Bahamas, Dr. Marshall provides scientific advice on a range of marine and environmental science, research, education and policy initiatives. He also currently serves an Adjunct Associate Professor of Biology at Morgan State University in Baltimore, Maryland. Marshall, Dr. Livingston S., Jr., Consultant and Science Advisor, Office of The Prime Minister Cabinet Office, P. O. Box N-7147 Nassau, The Bahamas Office: (242) 322-2805/8 Fax: (242) 328-2526 Email: livingstonmarshall at bahamas.gov.bs Email: lmarshall at moac.morgan.edu (Adjunct Assoc. Prof. of Biology) Discipline: Biology Originally Appointed: December 18, 2001 Appointed Under New Charter: March 30, 2004 Reappointment: January 1, 2006 Retire: December 31, 2007 From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Thu Mar 16 18:00:35 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:00:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Islanders and the Big Picture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060316230036.55720.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> From: Dr. Tom Williams I have been gathering other information, below. Kathleen Sullivan Sealey, University of Miami professor Dean of science and technology at the College of the Bahamas Specialist in coral reef fish, Wrote the Baker's Bay environmental assessment, doubts that the consequences will be so severe. Team monitoring Bahamas coastline via satellite for four years with Earthwatch volunteers, plans to keep a close eye on near-shore corals as an early warning system of any dangerous levels of pollution on the reef. "an experiment in sustainability for small island developments." James Risk, a marine biologist hired by the islanders more than 40 years of experience monitoring coral reefs After looking over project's environmental impact assessment "the result would be the death of the reef within three years." James Cervino, a specialist in reef biology teaches at Columbia and Pace universities. Coral reefs thrive in nutrient-starved ecosystems Marshall chief environmental adviser to the prime minister Hired away to oversee environmental and community relations for Discovery Land. Well respected in his field in Bahamas he stated, "I am not a coral reef expert nor do I claim to be one. I am a Fisheries Ecologist. I can either collaborate with coral reef ecologist to produce scientific conclusions or I can cause such science/scientist to be funded to produce scientific-based recommendations and or BEST [emphasis added] management practices." From nixa20 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 16 17:51:57 2006 From: nixa20 at yahoo.com (nicole caesar) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:51:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Islanders and the Big Picture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060316225157.44804.qmail@web36704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Erik and others, In my experience developers develop, it's up to the community and scientists (usually) to protect and attempt to preserve whatever natural resources are being threatened. You mentioned that the islanders are expressing concern, how can the scientists with coral reef ecology knowledge assist them in this situation? Can scientists write/fax articles of concern - relating the possible outcomes of this project (mangrove removal, impacts of dredging and siltation, increased nutrification from the golf course) to Bahamian newspapers? What local radio shows can interested scientists call in to? Can enough noise be made to get documentary shows from wedu and other stations interested in the proposed development and its ramifications? What was that biblical thing where the army blew the trumpets and the wall came crashing down - i'm not religious, just saying that if enough voices speak up in tandem and are channeled through certain avenues - we may just get enough attention from the Bahamian government etc, to make the developer's life not so easy.......... Nicole Caesar Concerned grad student Erik Gauger wrote: Todd - I want to address some of the issues that you've raised here. You are making the assumption that you are somehow the first person to make a friendly gesture towards the developer and that your email and the reply from Mike Meldman somehow shows progress. In fact, this has happened several times before, and several scientists have in fact attempted to work with the developer and provide them with data or advice and recommendations - remember that there are no coral scientists in their employ that anyone is aware of. They are fisheries and botanical scientists. There are a lot of related issues in the Discovery Land Company project, and they all fit together like a puzzle. The scientific consensus indicates that this development is too big to be resolved by incremental technology suggestions - this is a massive project on a tiny island. The island is 7 miles long. 3 of those miles will essentially be mowed down - and a huge marina will literally be cut out of the island and will nearly butt up against the beach. All evidence suggests that despite any menial steps the developer has taken to slow the nutrient increases into the coral reef - they cannot prove that they can get anywhere close to the nutrient levels required to keep the reef alive. But this coral issue is more complex than just nutrients. Look at the amount of mangroves being pulled out, the gray water from the marina that will leach into the island's only fishery, the massive silting that will be caused a dredging project that will in many ways equal the earlier failed Disney dredging project. The developer is not addressing any of these concerns publicly - if they have the answers, which they claim they do, their answers would be in use right now by developments around the world. One thing that coral conservationists should address is the idea that in almost every instance, the local community with long-term interest in its land and community has an innate understanding of their land and the consequences in the future - coral conservationist MUST see the community as their first ally. By fiercely opposing and avoiding public consultation with the locals, the developer has made it clear that they don't want to work with the community at all. In Meldman's email to you, he called the local's concerns 'a smear campaign.' This is an incredible statement: In every instance, I have seen the locals take the high road, although certainly if their way of life is at risk, they are not required to take the high road. But they do - and they should be commended by us for it. It is incredibly amazing that on an island of 170 people, the locals have taught themselves coral conservation and have chosen to work with the right people. Their message has always been a scientific one, a legal one and a community one. On the other hand, I have plenty of emails where the environmental spokesperson for Discovery Land Company literally mocked the scientists trying to help the locals. Additionally, this same spokesperson has called my work defamatory and called into question my right to report on this matter, because I am myself a foreigner. You have all been talking about worldwide coral issues for the past two weeks. This is a good example of ordinary people - traditional Bahamian fishermen, grocery store owners and cottage owners - bringing very relevant conservation issues to the forefront. I strongly believe that the best way to 'act locally' is to support the local's efforts and concerns. If you believe mangroves are essential to coastline ecology or you believe coral reefs require a low nutrient level; then this message, and the best result, will be found through the message of these fishermen and grocery store owners. If they happen to come to agreement with the developer by having their environmental concerns answered - then that is a wonderful outcome. But if the developer has to leave the Bahamas, then the islanders of Guana Cay have done a great service to places like Fiji or the Cayman Islands - by setting a higher standard for developers building adjacent to coral reefs. Todd - we should always encourage people like you who are willing to offer advice to a developer. But - we have to see all developments as part of a community; and when they are not - when they cannot work out the scientific concerns with the community whose grandchildren must make their living from the ocean - then that developer disqualifies themselves from the right to change the environmental and cultural face of the island. Several people have mentioned golf courses in Hawaii. There is a big difference, in my opinion. Hawaii courses are often high up on cliffs; there is plenty of land between them and the sea. Plus, the reef itself is often far out at sea. The water is different there - its deep water ocean. The two cannot be compared. Here, the cays are tiny - only ? mile wide in some instances. If you pour a glass of water into the limestone rock, the water disappears. In a few months, that water has soaked into the reef. But the developer plans to have 300-400 foot boats (its in a link in their website) in their marina. Imagine the gasoline, the gray water, the pollution, the golf course nutrients - these questions are not being answered. As long as these questions are not being answered and the environmental concerns satisfied, lets work with the islanders themselves - they are, oddly enough, the ones raising the biggest questions in the coral-development world right now. Todd, you said this, "...in my view if the concern is that the development will destroy the reef, then what must occur to develop the property without destroying the reef or what must they do to prove that what they are doing will not destroy the reef? I have suggested that we put together a voluntary scientific team to give them an honest assessment." There is already a voluntary scientific team in place, acting on behalf of the islanders. They are monitoring the reef independently and are doing so pro bono. Also, the developer 'hides' the fact that there is a coral reef in their literature. If you look at their maps of the proposed development and their glossy literature, the reef is erased. They don't need the reef to make their billions. This model relies on golf and a marina to sell this property. Erik _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Stephanie.Bailenson at dep.state.fl.us Thu Mar 16 16:44:59 2006 From: Stephanie.Bailenson at dep.state.fl.us (Bailenson, Stephanie) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:44:59 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] State of Florida job announcement - Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary Message-ID: <943FD515DC6DA1448B46F948346DFB330127FE06@tlhexsmb3.floridadep.net> The State of Florida and NOAA co-manage the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. The state effort is managed through the Office of Coastal and Aquatic Managed Areas collaborating with the Fish and Wildlife Commission. In addition to the Keys, CAMA manages 41 Aquatic Preserves located throughout the state, 3 National Estuarine Research Reserves and the Coral Reef Program in southeast Florida. We also serve as the host office for the state's efforts as part of the Gulf of Mexico Alliance and the Florida Oceans and Coastal Resources Council. This is an excellent opportunity for someone to join our management team as state lead for the Sanctuary and participate in CAMA-wide programs (research, education, restoration, invasive species, etc.). People should feel free to contact me with any questions. Working Title: Environmental Administrator Position Number: 37002385 Location: Either Key West or Key Largo (Monroe County) Office: Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary Annual Salary Range: $32,409.26 - $133,449.94 Closing Date: 4/10/06 Website link: http://jobs.myflorida.com/viewjob.html?refnode=319404 thanks, Stephanie Stephanie Bailenson Director, Coastal and Aquatic Managed Areas Florida Department of Environmental Protection Phone: (850) 245-2094 Suncom: 205-2094 Fax: (850) 245-2110 stephanie.bailenson at dep.state.fl.us From erik at notesfromtheroad.com Thu Mar 16 20:21:47 2006 From: erik at notesfromtheroad.com (Erik Gauger) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:21:47 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Community and Scientists In-Reply-To: <20060316225157.44804.qmail@web36704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nicole - thanks for your thoughtful reply. In my experience, the need for extremely eco-sensitive development in certain critical areas, and the effects of the past 50 years of development in these areas is really just now coming to light on a broader scale. Additionally, just in the past few years have we seen developments genuinely fit into this scientific model. I do not see developers as inherently evil, and I believe that with proper and tough environmental laws, community involvement, knowledge about the value of eco-development, and encouraging conservation groups - developers will change. And consumers are slowly evolving themselves - 'ecotourism' - genuine or not - is the fastest growing segment of tourism. With that in mind, the attention to detail that Discovery Land Company has placed on the environment would make it a great golf development...in a suburban region of Minnesota. There is a good book called "Last Resorts: the cost of tourism in the Caribbean." It looks at the effect of megadevelopments on local communities and the environment, and makes a good case for involving local communities. It also points out the costs of developments that alter the culture and the environment. Developers develop - but if they are also part of a community and scientific groups such as the coral world can be more vigilant as a group, we will see this change come sooner rather than later. Just to throw a loop in this discussion, and I don't mean to divert too sharply from a discussion about coral - I believe that things like taste, culture, architecture, etc play closely to environmentalism. If a development appears out of context with the surrounding area, there is probably something intrinsically wrong with its sustainability component as well. As a part time amateur travel writer, I mostly sleep in a tent with holes in it. Rarely, however, I get to visit genuine eco-developments and I have always been impressed by the attention to detail, the love of the culture, the use of sustainable material, and above all how interested the clients are in learning about how the development works with the surrounding communities and the environment - there is hope. The few scientists who have come to the assistance of the locals of Guana Cay have helped on several levels; without them it is unlikely the court case would be as strong as it is and the developer's P.R. campaigns may have silenced the locals. Scientists and data offer credibility and solidify the arguments. "Can scientists write/fax articles of concern - relating the possible outcomes of this project (mangrove removal, impacts of dredging and siltation, increased nutrification from the golf course) to Bahamian newspapers?" Yes, and they have and they are. But these people have full time jobs, as do I, and they need more assistance, more research, more baseline data and more concerned scientists and citizens taking a few minutes out of their day to email somebody, write a letter to www.saveguanacayreef.com, etc. There are lots and lots of people who are on the side of the locals, but the most valuable assistance somebody can offer is to elucidate from a very specific point of view, quoting from genuine research, and calling the media. One more thought, Nicole. You mention which newspapers can we write too, etc. I have a theory that the types of places where coral reefs tend to be are usually too distant, and the story too 'small' for large newspapers to visit and report on unless it directly affects their readership. With that said, it is the tourism and travel media that has the budget and best grasp on small islands adjacent to coral reefs. I am absolutely convinced that publications like Caribbean Travel & Life, Conde Nast, Islands Magazine, etc are the publications that are most qualified (in terms of budget, etc) to discuss these types of issues t the audience it impacts. It is absolutely horrifying to see that these types of publications almost universally avoid the big conservation issues. These magazines send the world's vacationers off to their destinations - they are the only link between Coral Island #237 and the developed world. I think conscious consumers, concerned scientists and advertisers can make a point of relieving these magazines of their fears to get into real journalism on the areas they cover. Come on, would you rather read about Guana Cay's colorful battle or a puff piece on the lobster at Hotel Atlantis? Erik -----Original Message----- From: nicole caesar [mailto:nixa20 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:52 PM To: Erik Gauger; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Islanders and the Big Picture Erik and others, In my experience developers develop, it's up to the community and scientists (usually) to protect and attempt to preserve whatever natural resources are being threatened. You mentioned that the islanders are expressing concern, how can the scientists with coral reef ecology knowledge assist them in this situation? Can scientists write/fax articles of concern - relating the possible outcomes of this project (mangrove removal, impacts of dredging and siltation, increased nutrification from the golf course) to Bahamian newspapers? What local radio shows can interested scientists call in to? Can enough noise be made to get documentary shows from wedu and other stations interested in the proposed development and its ramifications? What was that biblical thing where the army blew the trumpets and the wall came crashing down - i'm not religious, just saying that if enough voices speak up in tandem and are channeled through certain avenues - we may just get enough attention from the Bahamian government etc, to make the developer's life not so easy.......... Nicole Caesar Concerned grad student Erik Gauger wrote: Todd - I want to address some of the issues that you've raised here. You are making the assumption that you are somehow the first person to make a friendly gesture towards the developer and that your email and the reply from Mike Meldman somehow shows progress. In fact, this has happened several times before, and several scientists have in fact attempted to work with the developer and provide them with data or advice and recommendations - remember that there are no coral scientists in their employ that anyone is aware of. They are fisheries and botanical scientists. There are a lot of related issues in the Discovery Land Company project, and they all fit together like a puzzle. The scientific consensus indicates that this development is too big to be resolved by incremental technology suggestions - this is a massive project on a tiny island. The island is 7 miles long. 3 of those miles will essentially be mowed down - and a huge marina will literally be cut out of the island and will nearly butt up against the beach. All evidence suggests that despite any menial steps the developer has taken to slow the nutrient increases into the coral reef - they cannot prove that they can get anywhere close to the nutrient levels required to keep the reef alive. But this coral issue is more complex than just nutrients. Look at the amount of mangroves being pulled out, the gray water from the marina that will leach into the island's only fishery, the massive silting that will be caused a dredging project that will in many ways equal the earlier failed Disney dredging project. The developer is not addressing any of these concerns publicly - if they have the answers, which they claim they do, their answers would be in use right now by developments around the world. One thing that coral conservationists should address is the idea that in almost every instance, the local community with long-term interest in its land and community has an innate understanding of their land and the consequences in the future - coral conservationist MUST see the community as their first ally. By fiercely opposing and avoiding public consultation with the locals, the developer has made it clear that they don't want to work with the community at all. In Meldman's email to you, he called the local's concerns 'a smear campaign.' This is an incredible statement: In every instance, I have seen the locals take the high road, although certainly if their way of life is at risk, they are not required to take the high road. But they do - and they should be commended by us for it. It is incredibly amazing that on an island of 170 people, the locals have taught themselves coral conservation and have chosen to work with the right people. Their message has always been a scientific one, a legal one and a community one. On the other hand, I have plenty of emails where the environmental spokesperson for Discovery Land Company literally mocked the scientists trying to help the locals. Additionally, this same spokesperson has called my work defamatory and called into question my right to report on this matter, because I am myself a foreigner. You have all been talking about worldwide coral issues for the past two weeks. This is a good example of ordinary people - traditional Bahamian fishermen, grocery store owners and cottage owners - bringing very relevant conservation issues to the forefront. I strongly believe that the best way to 'act locally' is to support the local's efforts and concerns. If you believe mangroves are essential to coastline ecology or you believe coral reefs require a low nutrient level; then this message, and the best result, will be found through the message of these fishermen and grocery store owners. If they happen to come to agreement with the developer by having their environmental concerns answered - then that is a wonderful outcome. But if the developer has to leave the Bahamas, then the islanders of Guana Cay have done a great service to places like Fiji or the Cayman Islands - by setting a higher standard for developers building adjacent to coral reefs. Todd - we should always encourage people like you who are willing to offer advice to a developer. But - we have to see all developments as part of a community; and when they are not - when they cannot work out the scientific concerns with the community whose grandchildren must make their living from the ocean - then that developer disqualifies themselves from the right to change the environmental and cultural face of the island. Several people have mentioned golf courses in Hawaii. There is a big difference, in my opinion. Hawaii courses are often high up on cliffs; there is plenty of land between them and the sea. Plus, the reef itself is often far out at sea. The water is different there - its deep water ocean. The two cannot be compared. Here, the cays are tiny - only ? mile wide in some instances. If you pour a glass of water into the limestone rock, the water disappears. In a few months, that water has soaked into the reef. But the developer plans to have 300-400 foot boats (its in a link in their website) in their marina. Imagine the gasoline, the gray water, the pollution, the golf course nutrients - these questions are not being answered. As long as these questions are not being answered and the environmental concerns satisfied, lets work with the islanders themselves - they are, oddly enough, the ones raising the biggest questions in the coral-development world right now. Todd, you said this, "...in my view if the concern is that the development will destroy the reef, then what must occur to develop the property without destroying the reef or what must they do to prove that what they are doing will not destroy the reef? I have suggested that we put together a voluntary scientific team to give them an honest assessment." There is already a voluntary scientific team in place, acting on behalf of the islanders. They are monitoring the reef independently and are doing so pro bono. Also, the developer 'hides' the fact that there is a coral reef in their literature. If you look at their maps of the proposed development and their glossy literature, the reef is erased. They don't need the reef to make their billions. This model relies on golf and a marina to sell this property. Erik _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jreimer at jamstec.go.jp Thu Mar 16 20:26:43 2006 From: jreimer at jamstec.go.jp (James Reimer) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:26:43 +0900 Subject: [Coral-List] new Palythoa paper Message-ID: <114255880358600000618@cyboze> Hello listers, New paper discussing the phylogeny of Palythoa and Protopalythoa (Hexacorallia: Zoantharia) can be downloaded at: http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/browse/zsj/23/1/_contents (towards the bottom of the page) Alternatively, if you email me at jreimer at jamstec.go.jp I can send you a pdf file. Cheers, James Reimer ********************************************************* JSPS Research Fellow Research Program for Marine Biology and Ecology Extremobiosphere Research Center Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology (JAMSTEC) Headquarters 2-15 Natsushima Yokosuka, Kanagawa JAPAN 237-0061 Tel: ++81-46-867-9524 Fax: ++81-46-867-9525 e-mail: jreimer at jamstec.go.jp URL: http://www.jamstec.go.jp/ ********************************************************* From c.wild at unesco.org Fri Mar 17 05:19:57 2006 From: c.wild at unesco.org (Wild, Christian) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:57 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Announcement ISRS symposium in Bremen Message-ID: Dear whoever it concerns at coral list, Please find in the attachment an announcement for our session at the ISRS symposium. Thanks a lot for putting this on the coral list. Cheers, Christian Dr. Christian Wild UNESCO Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission Ocean Sciences Section 1, rue Miollis, 75015 Paris, France Tel: (33) 1 45 68 39 78 Fax: (33) 1 45 68 58 12/10 E-mail: c.wild at unesco.org From abanca at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 16 22:43:33 2006 From: abanca at bellsouth.net (Angie Bancalari-Schmidlapp) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:43:33 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Islanders and the Big Picture In-Reply-To: <20060316230036.55720.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060317034333.MAWF13926.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@ANGIENOTEBOOK> Hello, I have been following this time-consuming discussion and also have been gathering some info (in the form of a simple google search) on the company, and found: 1) Their web site: www.discoverylandco.com/ In their section on Baker's Bay there is practically no mention of coral reefs. LOTS of mentions regarding Golf and Megayachts. Pretty pdf images of their plans, with crowded house lots. 400 and some homesites I think I read...you imagine the impact...there are currently 170 residents in the island (yes, one hundred and seventy) 2) Interesting dialogue on the case at http://p098.ezboard.com/fsaveguanacayreeffrm2.showPrevMessage?topicID=98.top ic Mention of some local opinions on this divided issue, and also apparently the company registered www.saveguanacay.com, and if you go there you'll see the whole storefront for their "environmental" concerns, EIA, etc. Yep... 3) Bahamas Business News article: http://www.bahamasb2b.com/news/wmview.php?ArtID=6134 In it, there is mention of an accountant working for the company and making allusion to how the Bahamas should just abolish working permits for foreigners. 4) San Francisco Chronicle Article: from FEBRUARY OF 2006: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/13/MNG88H7E5U1.DTL In it they mention the locals' concerns, and it shows that, like any other small country in need of the millions, there is a shady side that is hard to beat: the government... and I quote: "...his real concern is what the development might mean for the lush coral reef offshore. Albury heads the Save Guana Cay Reef Association, which has taken the unprecedented step of suing Bahamian Prime Minister Perry Christie for leasing more than 100 acres of crown land, without the approval of the local government, to help the Discovery Land Company build Baker's Bay Golf and Ocean Club. The Supreme Court begins hearing the case today." There is obviously a current local opposition that scientists with coral reef impact experience should pick up on and offer their support. Note the name of the association, which if it would like to have a web site, would have a hard time finding a name close to its own. The developer owns it. I especially like the phrase in the article that says: "They'll come with their poodles with pedicures, and they'll expect us to jump" If anyone reading this has ever a doubt that the developers and the future residents EVER had or will have a true and genuine concern (beyond the marketing value of such) regarding the environmental impact of the project, then the world is much, much more na?ve than I ever thought it was. The caliber of people that these projects cater to and the philosophy of conservation are inherently mutually exclusive. That is the bottom line problem and that is why we have NO RICH scientists. Sorry for the lengthy note, it does not help to shorten the time it is taking to follow this thread. Kind regards from this grad student. Angie Bancalari-Schmidlapp -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Tom Williams Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:01 PM To: Erik Gauger; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov; riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca; reefball at reefball.com Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Islanders and the Big Picture From: Dr. Tom Williams I have been gathering other information, below. Kathleen Sullivan Sealey, University of Miami professor Dean of science and technology at the College of the Bahamas Specialist in coral reef fish, Wrote the Baker's Bay environmental assessment, doubts that the consequences will be so severe. Team monitoring Bahamas coastline via satellite for four years with Earthwatch volunteers, plans to keep a close eye on near-shore corals as an early warning system of any dangerous levels of pollution on the reef. "an experiment in sustainability for small island developments." James Risk, a marine biologist hired by the islanders more than 40 years of experience monitoring coral reefs After looking over project's environmental impact assessment "the result would be the death of the reef within three years." James Cervino, a specialist in reef biology teaches at Columbia and Pace universities. Coral reefs thrive in nutrient-starved ecosystems Marshall chief environmental adviser to the prime minister Hired away to oversee environmental and community relations for Discovery Land. Well respected in his field in Bahamas he stated, "I am not a coral reef expert nor do I claim to be one. I am a Fisheries Ecologist. I can either collaborate with coral reef ecologist to produce scientific conclusions or I can cause such science/scientist to be funded to produce scientific-based recommendations and or BEST [emphasis added] management practices." _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Thu Mar 16 19:51:57 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Few Facts for Guana Cay Islanders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060317005157.46389.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> Compare the following statements - Remember that Environmental Management Team: Dr Kathleen Sullivan Sealey - principal investigator, University of Miami Nicolle Cushion - environmental coordinator, UoM Kate Semen - project biologist, UoM Cloe Waterfield - project biologist, UoM Keith Bradley - botanist, Institute for Regional Conservation Development Team: Steve Adelson - partner/development Ed Divita - partner/engineering Don Vita - partner/landscape design Doug Shipman - vice president, development/project manager Dr Livingston Marshall - senior vp, environmental & community affairs Make your own conclusions regarding Dr. LM A. "A Case Study In Sustainable Development ?C The Baker??s Bay Golf and Ocean Club," Presentation at Rotary Club of New Providence, reported in The Bahama Journal, National News, 06/13/2005 Dr. Livingston Marshall, Senior Vice-President of the Environment & Community Affairs who is one of, if not the only, Bahamian to hold a Bachelor??s degree and Ph.D. in Marine Science Discovery Land Company 7-point plan to implement on Baker??s Bay is clear demonstration of the company??s commitment to the principle of sustainable development, 1.cleanup of contaminants on the 90-acre former Premier Cruise line site, formally known as Treasure Island, which is currently underway; 2.restoration of natural sand dune systems and native vegetation in coastal buffer zones of the Treasure Island complex; 3. removal and management of invasive plants, such as the Australian Pine and Hawaiian Inkberry along the coastal zone of the entire project site. 4. Restoration and management of wetlands adjacent to the marina area; 5. Management of wildlife habitats, including turtle nesting beaches, white crown pigeon foraging areas, and neo-tropical migratory bird habitats; 6. Dissemination of the project status and documentation of impacts through 7. Project website and the creation of an independent foundation for the management of preserved areas, environmental outreach education and ongoing site monitoring. Dr. Marshall said, "As a Bahamian, I am extremely pleased to be professionally associated with the Discovery Land Company and join the dozens of other Bahamians, recently and soon to be, employed on the project." Dr. Marshall stated that Baker??s Bay Golf & Ocean Club is: ?? "a unique" development it is a dynamic, industry leading, environmentally friendly and economically rewarding opportunity for The Bahamas that ?? will inject millions of dollars into the Bahamian economy during the construction phase and long after the property becomes fully operational. B. From coral Lister Marshall is well respected in his field in the Bahamas. In an email to several including Mike Risk, he stated, "I am not a coral reef expert nor do I claim to be one. I am a Fisheries Ecologist. I can either collaborate with coral reef ecologist to produce scientific conclusions or I can cause such science/scientist to be funded to produce scientific-based recommendations and or best management practices." From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Fri Mar 17 06:54:41 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:54:41 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate Message-ID: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> Hey, Team, this Guana Cay debate has been a great focus from the more general problem discussions over the past two weeks and has been constructive. However, I just want to ask that in the heat of discussion that we are all careful about any personal attacks, defamatory or slanderous comments, or emotionally laden language that serves no other purpose than to enrage the recipient (or person referred to). "Just the facts, Ma'am," as Sargent Joe Friday used to say on Dragnet [okay, so I'm aging myself...]. Please? I'm not saying anybody in particular has gotten too far out of control, but I do see the steam rising in the cauldron. Thanks! Cheers, Jim From Victor.Gomelyuk at nt.gov.au Thu Mar 16 22:32:58 2006 From: Victor.Gomelyuk at nt.gov.au (Victor Gomelyuk) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:02:58 +0930 Subject: [Coral-List] coralline algae? Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I need your help with this object identification: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/VGomelyuk/Corallina.jpg Is it coralline algae - or Montipora coral? Your comments are appreciated. Regards, Victor Gomelyuk Dr Victor Gomelyuk Marine Scientist Parks & Wildlife Commission of the Northern Territory Darwin, NT, Australia 0812 tel +61(0)889209281 fax 61(0)889209222 From c.wild at unesco.org Fri Mar 17 07:41:59 2006 From: c.wild at unesco.org (Wild, Christian) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:41:59 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] ISRS Message-ID: Dear Jim, Thanks for this information and apologies for not reading the general information page more careful. However, please find the text of the announcement now included within this e-mail in the following. Cheers, Christian Dr. Christian Wild UNESCO Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission Ocean Sciences Section 1, rue Miollis, 75015 Paris, France Tel: (33) 1 45 68 39 78 Fax: (33) 1 45 68 58 12/10 E-mail: c.wild at unesco.org The organizing committee of the 2006 European ISRS Meeting would like to call for you to attend the conference in Bremen, Germany between September 19 and September 22, 2006. We are organizing the session "Reef ecological processes" and would like to invite submission of abstracts for consideration as part of this session. The session encourages papers that examine: 1.- Trophic dynamics and nutrient cycling, 2.- Microbe-metazoan interactions, 3.- Food webs and ecosystem structure. Session abstract In spite of decades of research on ecosystem science, many of its most fundamental questions still revolve around the transfer of organisms, matter, energy and related essential elements between system components. During recent years new methodologies are allowing us a better quantification of system fluxes and gain insight into how major ecosystem players, both species and functional groups, may interact with each other and the physical environment. Trophic dynamics of tropical coral reef ecosystems has called attention because of the role of these reefs in globally important biogeochemical processes. Studies on the sources of essential elements as well as on the factors controlling their uptake, and recycling are crucial ecological processes to understand reef functioning, the evaluation of human impact and for any conservation action. If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May15th at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session [7] "Reef ecological processes". Please also forward copies of the abstract, indicating whether you would prefer an oral or poster presentation, to us at: Marta Ribes (mribes at cmima.csic.es ) Christian Wild (c.wild at unesco.org ) We look forward to your participation. Best Regards Marta Ribes, ICM-CMIMA (CSIC), Barcelona Christian Wild, IOC/UNESCO, Paris, and GeoBio-Center, LMU Munich. From veradulaney at comcast.net Fri Mar 17 07:12:13 2006 From: veradulaney at comcast.net (Vera DuLaney) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:12:13 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441AA79D.7030305@comcast.net> Erik, Thank you for all the writings you do. I am a Florida resident who loves to dive and is horrified at the state of the reefs right out my back yard. We are directly impacted by the bad practices of developers. I agree with everything you are saying. But there is one point that seems out of reach from this community. If I remember right, someone stated earlier that the Land Bay Company received its funding from the World Bank, whose own assessment of the "best use" for the land was to build a golf course and marina on this tiny island. If the money for the project flows from the bank to the developer, then it is really the bank and their "requirements" for this development that are at fault. The developer has little freedom to modify a "plan" once it has been funded. It's appears the developer is taking steps to erase evidence of the reef in their literature, so it appears intentional on the part of the bank Have you read "_Confessions of an Economic Hit Man_"? The practices described in this book are no different than what is happening at Guana Cay. The World Bank is not known for their eco-sensitive projects. I'm afraid the only way to preserve the reef is through legal channels - make sure the laws are strong and the developers get sued for attempting to violate them. Vera veradulaney at comcast.net Erik Gauger wrote: >Nicole - thanks for your thoughtful reply. In my experience, the need for >extremely eco-sensitive development in certain critical areas, and the >effects of the past 50 years of development in these areas is really just >now coming to light on a broader scale. Additionally, just in the past few >years have we seen developments genuinely fit into this scientific model. I >do not see developers as inherently evil, and I believe that with proper and >tough environmental laws, community involvement, knowledge about the value >of eco-development, and encouraging conservation groups - developers will >change. And consumers are slowly evolving themselves - 'ecotourism' - >genuine or not - is the fastest growing segment of tourism. With that in >mind, the attention to detail that Discovery Land Company has placed on the >environment would make it a great golf development...in a suburban region of >Minnesota. > >There is a good book called "Last Resorts: the cost of tourism in the >Caribbean." It looks at the effect of megadevelopments on local communities >and the environment, and makes a good case for involving local communities. >It also points out the costs of developments that alter the culture and the >environment. Developers develop - but if they are also part of a community >and scientific groups such as the coral world can be more vigilant as a >group, we will see this change come sooner rather than later. > >Just to throw a loop in this discussion, and I don't mean to divert too >sharply from a discussion about coral - I believe that things like taste, >culture, architecture, etc play closely to environmentalism. If a >development appears out of context with the surrounding area, there is >probably something intrinsically wrong with its sustainability component as >well. As a part time amateur travel writer, I mostly sleep in a tent with >holes in it. Rarely, however, I get to visit genuine eco-developments and I >have always been impressed by the attention to detail, the love of the >culture, the use of sustainable material, and above all how interested the >clients are in learning about how the development works with the surrounding >communities and the environment - there is hope. > >The few scientists who have come to the assistance of the locals of Guana >Cay have helped on several levels; without them it is unlikely the court >case would be as strong as it is and the developer's P.R. campaigns may have >silenced the locals. Scientists and data offer credibility and solidify the >arguments. > > >"Can scientists write/fax articles of concern - relating the possible >outcomes of this project (mangrove removal, impacts of dredging and >siltation, increased nutrification from the golf course) to Bahamian >newspapers?" > >Yes, and they have and they are. But these people have full time jobs, as >do I, and they need more assistance, more research, more baseline data and >more concerned scientists and citizens taking a few minutes out of their day >to email somebody, write a letter to www.saveguanacayreef.com, etc. There >are lots and lots of people who are on the side of the locals, but the most >valuable assistance somebody can offer is to elucidate from a very specific >point of view, quoting from genuine research, and calling the media. > >One more thought, Nicole. You mention which newspapers can we write too, >etc. I have a theory that the types of places where coral reefs tend to be >are usually too distant, and the story too 'small' for large newspapers to >visit and report on unless it directly affects their readership. With that >said, it is the tourism and travel media that has the budget and best grasp >on small islands adjacent to coral reefs. I am absolutely convinced that >publications like Caribbean Travel & Life, Conde Nast, Islands Magazine, etc >are the publications that are most qualified (in terms of budget, etc) to >discuss these types of issues t the audience it impacts. It is absolutely >horrifying to see that these types of publications almost universally avoid >the big conservation issues. These magazines send the world's vacationers >off to their destinations - they are the only link between Coral Island #237 >and the developed world. I think conscious consumers, concerned scientists >and advertisers can make a point of relieving these magazines of their fears >to get into real journalism on the areas they cover. Come on, would you >rather read about Guana Cay's colorful battle or a puff piece on the lobster >at Hotel Atlantis? > >Erik > > > From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Fri Mar 17 07:14:52 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:14:52 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Posting Documents or Images: No Can Do In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441AA83C.9030104@noaa.gov> Coral-Listers, With apologies to Christian Wild, who is most likely new to Coral-List: I've had this problem several times lately, so I want to repeat to the subscribership that you can NOT send attachments such as documents or images to the list (please review the general information page at http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list). If you try to do this, the attachment will be automatically stripped. Sometimes I admit that I may approve a message that seems harmless from the title without actually reading the message (a dangerous move, but a choice I sometimes have to make when there's a lot of traffic), so messages like these sometimes come through. The alternative is to post a link to the picture or document, or invite the subscribership to write to you for the document or image in question (caution: there are currently 3,470 subscribers). Thank you all for your cooperation. Sincerely, Jim Wild, Christian wrote: >Dear whoever it concerns at coral list, > >Please find in the attachment an announcement for our session at the >ISRS symposium. > >Thanks a lot for putting this on the coral list. > >Cheers, > >Christian > > > >Dr. Christian Wild > >UNESCO > >Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission > >Ocean Sciences Section > >1, rue Miollis, 75015 Paris, France > >Tel: (33) 1 45 68 39 78 > >Fax: (33) 1 45 68 58 12/10 > >E-mail: c.wild at unesco.org > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Fri Mar 17 08:31:44 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:31:44 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] BioClout Message-ID: <441ABA40.9020708@noaa.gov> Referring back to the previous discussions on Resiliency, etc., and Phil Dustan's plea for 8 to 10 salient points of discussion/attack, and further comments that a strong group or person should organize to make their case known to the Great Decision Makers (of various colors and ilk), I thought it interesting to identify one apparently powerful group that may prove instructive in its approach. I'm not specifically endorsing this group (Natural Resources Defense Council), I'm just pointing out that the approach seems to have proven effective to their cause, in case you want to study it. Similar efforts are of course undertaken by other conservation-oriented groups, such as The Nature Conservancy, Audubon Society, Conservation International, etc., whom I also do not specifically endorse (but they're doing a great job!), and I would encourage them to speak up if they feel so inclined. Just trying to focus here, folks: I am NOT petitioning to lobby, just trying to help steer coral conservation FACTS towards decision makers, who may not necessarily be governmental. If an effort was made to concentrate on ONE particular reef area to fight for (e.g., a "BioGem" of sorts [see below]), it might make focusing efforts a little more effective if coral-listers approached one of the groups that has large experience on the front lines. With success there, the 8-10 points gets more exposure as a general theme of problems worldwide, then the torch is carried forth by the millions more who know, and the next endangered area is identified, etc. [By the way, I appreciate Mike Risk's tenuous nomination of me to carry the flag, but it should be obvious that in my capacity as a government employee, I can't do that. Besides, I'm not sexy... :) ] From their NRDC-related Web page at www.biogems.org: BIOGEMS DEFENDERS HIT NEW MILESTONE Rallying to protect endangered wildlands from the Arctic to the southern tip of Chile, BioGems Defenders have sent more than 7 million messages since the launch of the NRDC BioGems Initiative in 2001. In the past eight months alone, BioGems Defenders sent more than a million messages -- helping to block massive oil development in the Arctic Refuge, as well as to secure permanent protection for the rainforest home of the rare white Spirit Bear and to ensure a future for the highly endangered vaquita marina, a small porpoise found only in Mexico's Upper Gulf of California. From tjmurdoch at gov.bm Fri Mar 17 09:06:20 2006 From: tjmurdoch at gov.bm (Murdoch, Thad) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:06:20 -0400 Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay Location Message-ID: <9DE9B5AA6E27154A92FD0C9659DD4ADE01095727@GOVEXG003.messaging.gov.bm> Ahoy all, Here is the location of the island in debate (for those addicted to internet-based mapping software as much as I am). Longitude -77*09'49.43 Latitude 26*41'07.73 Best Regards - Thad Murdoch _______________________________________________________________ Principal Investigator Bermuda Reef Ecosystem Assessment and Mapping Initiative Bermuda Biodiversity Programme, BZS Flatts, BERMUDA From szmanta at uncw.edu Fri Mar 17 09:32:51 2006 From: szmanta at uncw.edu (Szmant, Alina) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:32:51 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] BioClout Message-ID: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90ABA673A@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> Hi Jim: All of those organizations do great work, as do The Ocean Conservancy, Defenders of Wildlife, Environmental Defense, Greenpeace and Earth Justice. I contribute to each of these (and the ones you listed) annually. Maybe if more coral reef interested people contributed to one or more of these organizations, and because involved with them, they'd elevate coral reef conservation to a higher urgency within their programs. Most of them do some work on coral reefs, but as anyone who reads the magazines sent out by these organizations knows, corals and coral reefs are just one of the systems, and not even the most threatened, by human activities. While you are at it, contribute to Population Connection (formerly Zero Population Growth), Planned Parenthood International, NARAL, and UNPF. Regards, Alina ******************************************************************* Dr. Alina M. Szmant Coral Reef Research Group UNCW-Center for Marine Science 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln Wilmington NC 28409 Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410 Cell: (910)200-3913 email: szmanta at uncw.edu Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta ****************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Jim Hendee Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:32 AM To: Coral-List Subscribers Subject: [Coral-List] BioClout Referring back to the previous discussions on Resiliency, etc., and Phil Dustan's plea for 8 to 10 salient points of discussion/attack, and further comments that a strong group or person should organize to make their case known to the Great Decision Makers (of various colors and ilk), I thought it interesting to identify one apparently powerful group that may prove instructive in its approach. I'm not specifically endorsing this group (Natural Resources Defense Council), I'm just pointing out that the approach seems to have proven effective to their cause, in case you want to study it. Similar efforts are of course undertaken by other conservation-oriented groups, such as The Nature Conservancy, Audubon Society, Conservation International, etc., whom I also do not specifically endorse (but they're doing a great job!), and I would encourage them to speak up if they feel so inclined. Just trying to focus here, folks: I am NOT petitioning to lobby, just trying to help steer coral conservation FACTS towards decision makers, who may not necessarily be governmental. If an effort was made to concentrate on ONE particular reef area to fight for (e.g., a "BioGem" of sorts [see below]), it might make focusing efforts a little more effective if coral-listers approached one of the groups that has large experience on the front lines. With success there, the 8-10 points gets more exposure as a general theme of problems worldwide, then the torch is carried forth by the millions more who know, and the next endangered area is identified, etc. [By the way, I appreciate Mike Risk's tenuous nomination of me to carry the flag, but it should be obvious that in my capacity as a government employee, I can't do that. Besides, I'm not sexy... :) ] From their NRDC-related Web page at www.biogems.org: BIOGEMS DEFENDERS HIT NEW MILESTONE Rallying to protect endangered wildlands from the Arctic to the southern tip of Chile, BioGems Defenders have sent more than 7 million messages since the launch of the NRDC BioGems Initiative in 2001. In the past eight months alone, BioGems Defenders sent more than a million messages -- helping to block massive oil development in the Arctic Refuge, as well as to secure permanent protection for the rainforest home of the rare white Spirit Bear and to ensure a future for the highly endangered vaquita marina, a small porpoise found only in Mexico's Upper Gulf of California. _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From lesliewhaylen at yahoo.com Fri Mar 17 11:10:40 2006 From: lesliewhaylen at yahoo.com (Leslie Whaylen) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:10:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Guana Cay - reality kicks in Message-ID: <20060317161040.63707.qmail@web36101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have been avidly reading the postings these last few weeks. Based upon Angie Bancalari-Schmidlapp's posting, I visited Discovery's website on the Baker's Bay development on Guana Cay. http://www.discoverylandco.com/project_bakersbay.html The top picture is an aerial photo of the island and it is quite an attractive one. The next link she recommended was to the developer's illustrative plan http://www.discoverylandco.com/images/bakersbay/illustrative_plan.pdf. I was absolutely horrified. Almost every morsel of land will be uprooted, dredged, cemented, or filled. Where will those 170 residents go? Will they, like some islanders in the South Pacific, be 're-located' or will they be shunted to the tiny piece of undeveloped land on the corner of their island that is touted by Discovery as an area for "For Preservation and Study". I was compelled to write a letter and will spend the $10.92 for postage today to mail my letter to the 9 Bahamian addresses listed on www.saveguanacayreef.com. In the midst of all these recent postings (i.e. to drive or not to drive a SUV), I am mightily reminded today that one can choose to take action, even if viewed as infinitesimally small. My personal choices and decisions are what I can control and demonstrate to others. May it catch on like the wildfires in the state from which I write this email. Leslie Whaylen inland, Texas From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Fri Mar 17 12:02:35 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:02:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate In-Reply-To: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <20060317170235.97861.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> Jim The list and your efforts are always deeply appreciated. I agree regarding Cay vs Resiliency...they are linked -globally/locally. Being experienced in coral reefs and EIR, EIS, EIA, World Bank, Asian Dev. Bank and Int.Am.Dev.Bank, I believe as a specialized group of technical and sceintific specialists we can and should be doing more for the protection of reefs (wetlands, tropic forests, vernal pools, etc.) which I have seen lost to the world perhaps forever. Some steam is a good thing-no stress no gain. Tom Williams --- Jim Hendee wrote: Hey, Team, this Guana Cay debate has been a great focus from the more general problem discussions over the past two weeks and has been constructive....but I do see the steam rising in the cauldron. From erik at notesfromtheroad.com Fri Mar 17 12:26:39 2006 From: erik at notesfromtheroad.com (Erik Gauger) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:26:39 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Size of Guana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Leslie and all - I do not intend to flood this coral list with Guana Cay discussion, so my apologies again, but I must answer Leslie's question. Leslie has assumed that the entire island is the developers. No, the islanders live in the middle third of the island and have lived there as a community since the US revolutionary war, some before that. The southern end of the island is currently being developed by another developer. The island is 6.5 miles long, some say it is 7. Here is an accurate map of the entire island: http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/guana_map.html The Discovery Land Company paints the end of their land (and the crown land which they have been building on and allegely illegally so) as water. In fact, the island stretches out 3/5 longer than the map shows. Earlier, someone mentioned that the developers EIA mostly focuses on issues like cleaning up Disneys mess and picking up litter and saving orchids. I have illustrated two maps - one shows what that part of the island looked like when Disney was there (and dredged a hole that silted the corals for two years) http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/bbc/disney1.html And the next map shows what that portion of the island will look like based on their development, for comparison: http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/bbc/disney2.html Additionally, here is a text snapshot of Guana Cay taken from a court room affidavit of Troy Albury: 5. I am a land owner and a resident of Guana Cay. I live there with my wife and 2 children. I own a scuba, snorkelling and boating business called Dive Guana, located on the south shore of Guana Cay. I have operated it for almost 7 years. I operate daily dives and excursions to the reefs, beaches and other marine attractions around Guana Cay. Like many other residents and land owners in Guana Cay, such as fishermen, boaters, sailors, second home owners, bed and breakfasts, and tourist business owners, we rely on the cleanliness and beauty of the land and marine environment for our livelihood. It is also a matter of quality of life for us. It is part of our local culture and heritage that we live a simple, calm, quiet, crime-free life on a small island that has preserved its unique heritage, culture, environment and way of life by slow; sustained and almost imperceptible growth which has given prosperity and jobs to many of the residents of Guana Cay. There is virtually 100% employment on the island. The Development hereinafter described, threatens to completely change and disrupt the quality of life which we have all enjoyed and benefited from. 8. The community of Guana Cay has approximately 150 Bahamian residents, landowners and a further 150 non-citizen home owners and periodic residents. Of the Bahamians there are many fishermen. In fact Guana Cay traditionally has had a small fleet of fishing vessels and enterprises of approximately 15 vessels and approximately 30 fishermen. These vessels and the fishermen fish for lobster, conch and fish throughout the year during the relevant seasons for the catch. In addition, these fishermen are landowners and residents of Guana Cay, and they are also mechanics, craftsmen, carpenters, joiners and persons employed in the boat maintenance and fishing trade, in addition to the actual fishermen themselves. This continues to be an economy and traditional way of life in the community. Many of the families of the fishermen are involved in selling and marketing the catch. 9. In addition to the fishing industry, the community of Guana Cay is very heavily involved in the hosting of tourists, second home residents and visitors throughout the year. In this respect, the community of Guana Cay and the Bahamian residents and landowners have many homes and rental properties which are periodically rented as guest houses, bed and breakfasts or tourist facilities. 10. In addition, approximately 150 non Bahamian landowners have for many years owned and quietly and slowly developed homes, houses and guest houses for rental and sale in Guana Cay. 11. Most of the Bahamians who are residents in Guana Cay have almost full time employment in caretaking, fishing, maintenance of homes, restaurants, bars, dive shops, boat rentals and repairs, and other similar activities. 12. A culture has developed on Great Guana Cay as between the Bahamian landowners and residents and the non-Bahamians of mutual respect, accommodation and cooperation in respect of almost all facets of our daily existence in the small community. Crime is almost non existent and happens rarely, if at all. For the most part we sleep with our windows open and doors unlocked. At times many homes are unattended for weeks and unlocked. I can personally say that I do not even know where the keys for my home are as they have never been used. 13. As a person whose business requires him to go into the water daily, I am able to say that the marine environment around Great Guana Cay is healthy and thriving. 14. The settlement, its economy and culture rely on a healthy surrounding marine environment. In fact, throughout the year, thousands of boaters visit the environs of Great Guana Cay where they sometimes live on their sail boats or yachts and interact cooperatively with the local residents. In this respect, both local residents and visitors respect the marine environment and avoid over fishing or in any way directly harming the marine environment. This is not to say that there are no issues with respect to the environment, but the general approach of anyone who has been living or visiting Great Guana Cay is to try and maintain it so that it continues to provide an environment which attracts further visitors successfully. Residents and the fishermen rely on the pristine marine wetland, reef and water environment. That is why the local economy of Great Guana Cay has for decades continued to thrive. For instance, the local fishermen and visitors do not over fish the conch, lobster and fish stock in and around the Island and the fishing fleet generally travels great distances to other fishing grounds for any large commercial catch. This has all resulted in a very attractive and desirable community , environment, and sustained a marine and land resource on, in and around Guana Cay. I note that Recital (J) of the Heads of Agreement states that the Government was "satisfied that the Development will positively and significantly impact upon the economy of the said Commonwealth and the Island of Abaco in particular". Noticeably it does not mention Great Guana Cay. 15. The wetlands, mangroves, bone fish flats, and other pristine national environments in and around the Crown and Treasury Land and private 450 acres which is intended to be developed by the Developers, is extremely important to maintain in a healthy environmental state so that the flora and fauna can continue to provide nature's bounty for the residents and visitors of Great Guana Cay. 16. In the Crown and Treasury lands, the residents of Guana Cay have traditionally hunted for crabs, used the areas for recreation, picked fruits, accessed beaches and have otherwise used the lands for public purposes such as picnics and community retreats and parties. They have also traditionally fished as aforesaid Thanks, Erik From raisha.lovindeer at gmail.com Fri Mar 17 13:04:22 2006 From: raisha.lovindeer at gmail.com (Raisha Lovindeer) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:04:22 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Cays & Corals Message-ID: <58601d7b0603171004k74b65101u@mail.gmail.com> Hey All I am usually a silent reader, as so many others have already posted my opinions, I just sit and do my fair sheer of 'here here's. However within the recent debates, something was brought up that I have not seen anyone address and I just have to get my two cents in. Tom, you wrote: "I once told a developer that he could get his permit if he put into bank guarantee - $1M for use by the environ. agency - he chose to await agency process/procedures. So let's give the Developer a proposal and see where he goes." So then I ask... if the Developer could in fact pay that 1M, would it then be ok? This points to something that gets my blood boiling everytime (Not at you Tom, at the issue). The thought that we (not necessarily the scientific community, as unfortunately it usually falls out of our hands) would allow people with money to buy their way into doing things that will cause damage to ecosystems that in my mind are priceless. I've seen it done countless times. The rich get away with murder because they can afford it, and the poor ones (usually the/us locals) have to just, what we call in Jamaica... 'suck it up'. For that reason alone, I disagree with your giving them a proposal to see what they do with it. It just might backfire on you. Raisha Lovindeer From chris at c-3.org.uk Fri Mar 17 13:35:56 2006 From: chris at c-3.org.uk (Chris Poonian) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:35:56 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] C3-Comores Internship Opportunity In-Reply-To: <5d30b4fe0603070330s33b74ac0v@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d30b4fe0603070330s33b74ac0v@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d30b4fe0603171035p6834387dj@mail.gmail.com> There are a limited number of vacancies available for interns on the C3-Comores programme over the coming year. This work will include: Marine park, local NGO and governmental staff training Socio-economic surveys Awareness raising Biological surveys Capacity-building for Eco-tourism Applicants should possess a relevant degree, good French and overseas field experience. PLEASE DO NOT APPLY IF YOU DO NOT MEET THESE CRITERIA. Intern must cover expenses and commit for 3 months. Please visit our website at www.c-3.org.uk and contact us at clinterns at c-3.org.uk for more information. -- Chris Poonian Projects Manager Community Centred Conservation (C3) c-3.org.uk To develop conservation efforts worldwide by building the capacity of local individuals and institutions through grassroots research and training initiatives From ctwiliams at yahoo.com Fri Mar 17 13:25:36 2006 From: ctwiliams at yahoo.com (Tom Williams) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:25:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] BioClout In-Reply-To: <441ABA40.9020708@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <20060317182536.25498.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Just the Facts and current status INVEST BAHAMAS (www.investbahamas.org) News Briefing ?C Wednesday, February 8th, 2006 BEST Still Awaiting ??Revised?? Environment Plan for Guana Cay The developers behind the $175 million Baker??s Bay Golf & Ocean Club development on Great Guana Cay began work on their project with supplying the Government with a ??revised?? Environmental Management Plan (EMP). An affidavit filed with the Supreme Court on January 30 by Donald Cooper, who manages the Bahamas Science, Environment and technology (BEST) Commission, acknowledged that San Francisco-based Discovery Land Company had ??satisfied most of its concerns?? with regard to the 585-acre project. But he added: ??However, the BEST Commission still awaits receipt of a final design for the proposed golf course that would minimize or eliminate any ecological risk associated with current design, and a revised EMP.?? The Tribune Business Section Pg.1B ------------------------------------------------- The referenced current EIA and EMP is available - Passerine at Abaco EIA (bakers_bay_EIA.pdf). The EIA does not adequately or hardly at all deal with the coastal-intertidal and subtidal (corals, etc.) The EMP deals with education, monitoring, and reporting (the softs); not on protection, enforcement, mitigation, and compensation for marine effects (which I believe would generally be considered as significant and thereby require physical mitigation). From gchallenger at msn.com Fri Mar 17 14:39:52 2006 From: gchallenger at msn.com (Greg Challenger) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:39:52 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate References: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> Message-ID: Forgive me if this topic has been covered. Focusing only on environmental issues....What type of development is acceptable? Any? ..and where? It would be interesting to hear opinions about how this development should be modified to better protect the environment. I believe if you stop them, you have only won a NIMBY battle and not the war. They seem to have a pile of money. If the hassle factor affects their cost/benefit, they will move their carnival to the next town. Considering that populations continue to grow and people (including ourselves) are always looking for lovely places to visit...amenities will be constructed to support our demand. There seems to be a lot of anger directed at "rich developers", but aren't they just responding to demand from us? How many of you have neighbors that travel to destination resorts to play golf and fish? Is it more productive to focus on limiting development footprints and addressing how and where amenities are constructed rather than stopping them altogether? Perhaps both are important. I think pressure from citizens to abandon these projects is not always practical, but it may result in pressure for better development practices and reduced footprints. 2 cents Greg Challenger visit us at: www.polarisappliedsciences.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hendee To: Coral-List Subscribers Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:54 AM Subject: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate Hey, Team, this Guana Cay debate has been a great focus from the more general problem discussions over the past two weeks and has been constructive. However, I just want to ask that in the heat of discussion that we are all careful about any personal attacks, defamatory or slanderous comments, or emotionally laden language that serves no other purpose than to enrage the recipient (or person referred to). "Just the facts, Ma'am," as Sargent Joe Friday used to say on Dragnet [okay, so I'm aging myself...]. Please? I'm not saying anybody in particular has gotten too far out of control, but I do see the steam rising in the cauldron. Thanks! Cheers, Jim _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From kos_inverts at omahazoo.com Fri Mar 17 14:00:29 2006 From: kos_inverts at omahazoo.com (Mitch Carl) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:00:29 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Euphyllia glabrescens reproduction Message-ID: <00c001c649f5$0f3b5680$890c10ac@omahazoo.org> Hi all, can anyone point me to any papers that discuss the reproduction of Euphyllia glabrescens? Also, if anyone has any first hand observations or have worked w/ the reproduction of this species, I would like to ask some questions. Thanks. Mitch Carl Omaha Zoo From reefball at reefball.com Fri Mar 17 15:53:00 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:53:00 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] My Last Comment on The Great Guana Cay Debate References: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <000801c64a04$c763f820$6801a8c0@LaFalda> First, thanks to everyone that engaged in this important debate...important because we will face the same scenario in different places around the world for a long time to come. I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle nesting grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) islands, so I won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a comment try emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick out on a slow internet connection. So, let me sum up what I believe everyone should do for Guana Cay... If you are a local resident or stakeholder....fight for your rights...continue your court battle and use all your legal means to achieve your goals. If you are privately concerned, consider joining their fight or helping them fund it. If you are a scientist you have several options. If protecting the reef touches you emotionally, consider donating some of your skills or time to the saveguuanacay.org group. If you are neutral, consider contacting the government of the Bahamas or Livingston Marshall to donate your skills to helping find ways to minimize the impact of the development should the legal efforts fail. If you are a consulting scientist, you may wish to sell your skills to any of the parties involved either through EISs, EIAs, legal mitigation or private consulting. If you are an NGO, follow your organizational mission statement guidelines and do what you can to aid in your mission. If you are a developer, join the debate and express your side of the issues.....many of us "get it" that the fight is not about winning and losing but working together to achieve better things. If you are from government, use the great wisdom of the 3,470 folks on this list that care about corals to help answer your questions regarding corals and how or why they should affect your policy. If in doubt, ask a question...you may get 5 different answers....but 4 of 5 might be right! I am confident, that no matter how you get involved or "whose side you are on" that anyone on this list most likely cares very deeply for corals and our world oceanic ecosystems therefore if you lend your skills in whatever capacity, I believe the outcome will be better than it would otherwise be. Herein lies the power of this list...knowledge can overcome problems. And if every time we face similar threats or opportunities to our oceanic ecosystems we join together....no matter how far apart each of our positions on the particular issue separates us we will achieve more together. 'till next week! Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Challenger" To: "Coral-List Subscribers" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate > Forgive me if this topic has been covered. Focusing only on environmental > issues....What type of development is acceptable? Any? ..and where? > > It would be interesting to hear opinions about how this development should > be modified to better protect the environment. I believe if you stop > them, you have only won a NIMBY battle and not the war. They seem to have > a pile of money. If the hassle factor affects their cost/benefit, they > will move their carnival to the next town. Considering that populations > continue to grow and people (including ourselves) are always looking for > lovely places to visit...amenities will be constructed to support our > demand. There seems to be a lot of anger directed at "rich developers", > but aren't they just responding to demand from us? How many of you have > neighbors that travel to destination resorts to play golf and fish? Is it > more productive to focus on limiting development footprints and addressing > how and where amenities are constructed rather than stopping them > altogether? Perhaps both are important. I think pressure from citizens > to abandon these projects is not always practi > cal, but it may result in pressure for better development practices and > reduced footprints. > > 2 cents > > Greg Challenger > > visit us at: > www.polarisappliedsciences.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Hendee > To: Coral-List Subscribers > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:54 AM > Subject: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate > > > Hey, Team, this Guana Cay debate has been a great focus from the more > general problem discussions over the past two weeks and has been > constructive. However, I just want to ask that in the heat of > discussion that we are all careful about any personal attacks, > defamatory or slanderous comments, or emotionally laden language that > serves no other purpose than to enrage the recipient (or person referred > to). "Just the facts, Ma'am," as Sargent Joe Friday used to say on > Dragnet [okay, so I'm aging myself...]. Please? I'm not saying anybody > in particular has gotten too far out of control, but I do see the steam > rising in the cauldron. > > Thanks! > > Cheers, > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From psr at coralcay.org Fri Mar 17 17:41:29 2006 From: psr at coralcay.org (Pete Raines) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:41:29 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] My Last Comment on The Great Guana Cay Debate In-Reply-To: <000801c64a04$c763f820$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: <001301c64a13$ef4a3610$1946a8c0@cccpete> Dear all, I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" etc etc,.... Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope that my initial concerns are unfounded. Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up the open channel that coral-list was established for. So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming out of there, if you are interested. Cheers, Pete _____________________________________________ Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD Founder & Chairman Coral Cay Conservation Ltd 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 email: psr at coralcay.org www.coralcay.org DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are stored for future reference. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org ______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Todd Barber Sent: 17 March 2006 20:53 To: Greg Challenger; Coral-List Subscribers Subject: [Coral-List] My Last Comment on The Great Guana Cay Debate First, thanks to everyone that engaged in this important debate...important because we will face the same scenario in different places around the world for a long time to come. I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle nesting grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) islands, so I won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a comment try emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick out on a slow internet connection. So, let me sum up what I believe everyone should do for Guana Cay... If you are a local resident or stakeholder....fight for your rights...continue your court battle and use all your legal means to achieve your goals. If you are privately concerned, consider joining their fight or helping them fund it. If you are a scientist you have several options. If protecting the reef touches you emotionally, consider donating some of your skills or time to the saveguuanacay.org group. If you are neutral, consider contacting the government of the Bahamas or Livingston Marshall to donate your skills to helping find ways to minimize the impact of the development should the legal efforts fail. If you are a consulting scientist, you may wish to sell your skills to any of the parties involved either through EISs, EIAs, legal mitigation or private consulting. If you are an NGO, follow your organizational mission statement guidelines and do what you can to aid in your mission. If you are a developer, join the debate and express your side of the issues.....many of us "get it" that the fight is not about winning and losing but working together to achieve better things. If you are from government, use the great wisdom of the 3,470 folks on this list that care about corals to help answer your questions regarding corals and how or why they should affect your policy. If in doubt, ask a question...you may get 5 different answers....but 4 of 5 might be right! I am confident, that no matter how you get involved or "whose side you are on" that anyone on this list most likely cares very deeply for corals and our world oceanic ecosystems therefore if you lend your skills in whatever capacity, I believe the outcome will be better than it would otherwise be. Herein lies the power of this list...knowledge can overcome problems. And if every time we face similar threats or opportunities to our oceanic ecosystems we join together....no matter how far apart each of our positions on the particular issue separates us we will achieve more together. 'till next week! Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Challenger" To: "Coral-List Subscribers" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate > Forgive me if this topic has been covered. Focusing only on environmental > issues....What type of development is acceptable? Any? ..and where? > > It would be interesting to hear opinions about how this development should > be modified to better protect the environment. I believe if you stop > them, you have only won a NIMBY battle and not the war. They seem to have > a pile of money. If the hassle factor affects their cost/benefit, they > will move their carnival to the next town. Considering that populations > continue to grow and people (including ourselves) are always looking for > lovely places to visit...amenities will be constructed to support our > demand. There seems to be a lot of anger directed at "rich developers", > but aren't they just responding to demand from us? How many of you have > neighbors that travel to destination resorts to play golf and fish? Is it > more productive to focus on limiting development footprints and addressing > how and where amenities are constructed rather than stopping them > altogether? Perhaps both are important. I think pressure from citizens > to abandon these projects is not always practi > cal, but it may result in pressure for better development practices and > reduced footprints. > > 2 cents > > Greg Challenger > > visit us at: > www.polarisappliedsciences.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Hendee > To: Coral-List Subscribers > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:54 AM > Subject: [Coral-List] The Great Guana Cay Debate > > > Hey, Team, this Guana Cay debate has been a great focus from the more > general problem discussions over the past two weeks and has been > constructive. However, I just want to ask that in the heat of > discussion that we are all careful about any personal attacks, > defamatory or slanderous comments, or emotionally laden language that > serves no other purpose than to enrage the recipient (or person referred > to). "Just the facts, Ma'am," as Sargent Joe Friday used to say on > Dragnet [okay, so I'm aging myself...]. Please? I'm not saying anybody > in particular has gotten too far out of control, but I do see the steam > rising in the cauldron. > > Thanks! > > Cheers, > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From pilcher at tm.net.my Fri Mar 17 23:57:27 2006 From: pilcher at tm.net.my (Nicolas J. Pilcher) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:57:27 +0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Sabah and reefballs In-Reply-To: <000801c64a04$c763f820$6801a8c0@LaFalda> References: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060318125100.024a4640@pop.tm.net.my> Interesting to hear that reefballs are going to save Sabah's reefs from erosion. Ever seen what continued man--made structures end up looking like many years after being deployed in areas where shifting sands due to predominant current patters persists? The Maldives might be a good example of the continued need to adjust and shift these. The turtle islands have been subject to a two-phase sand shift with the monsoon season for many more years than reef-balls, and turtles, which require a stable nesting habitat in order to successfully propagate as a group of species. Sand moves one way in the monsoon season, the other in the off season. And while sand is ultimately shifting slowly in one direction, the islands are obviously sufficiently stable for turtles, which nest on their natal beaches but require a 30 year developmental period. That is, the islands are stable enough for 30 years, yet reefballs are going to save the day? >I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle nesting >grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) islands, so I >won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a comment try >emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick out on a >slow internet connection. I am writing from Sabah with a fast broadband connection. You'll end up in hotels all of which have wireless broadband access for guests - yes, right here in Borneo, of all places! I'd appreciate if you would not suggest that this is a backward destination, you might find in many ways Sabah has a lot more to offer. Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group Executive Director Marine Research Foundation 136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 Taman Khidmat 88450 Kota Kinabalu Sabah Malaysia Tel ++ 60 88 386136 Fax ++ 60 88 387136 Email: pilcher at tm.net.my From cnidaria at earthlink.net Sat Mar 18 07:50:15 2006 From: cnidaria at earthlink.net (James M. Cervino) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:50:15 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? Message-ID: Dear Pete, I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor over time during this current time, and if this development project takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an educational tool so close to US coastal cities. Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your "interesting data" from the Philippines! James Dear all, I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" etc etc,.... Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope that my initial concerns are unfounded. Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up the open channel that coral-list was established for. So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming out of there, if you are interested. Cheers, Pete -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Pathology Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** From reefball at reefball.com Sat Mar 18 08:48:11 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:48:11 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Sabah and reefballs References: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> <5.2.0.9.2.20060318125100.024a4640@pop.tm.net.my> Message-ID: <001a01c64a92$98e0ae60$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hi Nicolas, Why would you think I am using Reef Balls to save the day? We're looking at planting mangroves to help stabilize the beaches because Reef Balls offshore (8 years ago) have stopped the netting and increased the turtle nestings substaintially so they need as much space as possible. Come on folks, we are an NGO, not a marketing company. Sure, we use Reef Balls in a lot of our projects but only as one management tool of many. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" To: "Todd Barber" ; Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:57 PM Subject: Sabah and reefballs > Interesting to hear that reefballs are going to save Sabah's reefs from > erosion. Ever seen what continued man--made structures end up looking like > many years after being deployed in areas where shifting sands due to > predominant current patters persists? The Maldives might be a good example > of the continued need to adjust and shift these. The turtle islands have > been subject to a two-phase sand shift with the monsoon season for many > more years than reef-balls, and turtles, which require a stable nesting > habitat in order to successfully propagate as a group of species. Sand > moves one way in the monsoon season, the other in the off season. And > while sand is ultimately shifting slowly in one direction, the islands are > obviously sufficiently stable for turtles, which nest on their natal > beaches but require a 30 year developmental period. That is, the islands > are stable enough for 30 years, yet reefballs are going to save the day? > > >>I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle >>nesting >>grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) islands, so >>I >>won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a comment try >>emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick out on a >>slow internet connection. > > I am writing from Sabah with a fast broadband connection. You'll end up in > hotels all of which have wireless broadband access for guests - yes, right > here in Borneo, of all places! I'd appreciate if you would not suggest > that this is a backward destination, you might find in many ways Sabah has > a lot more to offer. > > Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher > Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group > > Executive Director > Marine Research Foundation > 136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 > Taman Khidmat > 88450 Kota Kinabalu > Sabah > Malaysia > > Tel ++ 60 88 386136 > Fax ++ 60 88 387136 > Email: pilcher at tm.net.my > > From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Mar 18 09:39:23 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] My Last Comment on The Great Guana Cay Debate In-Reply-To: <001301c64a13$ef4a3610$1946a8c0@cccpete> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Raines: While I have some sympathy for your frustration at the amount and caloric content of some of the Guana postings, I feel the debate has been cathartic and perhaps even useful. The Guana input sprang from a broader discussion that has now ranged from Resiliency to Reef Balls (both questionable concepts, in my opinion). Along the way, readers have been exposed to many thoughtful submissions, on the importance of nutrients, need for population control, and influence of development upon our chosen ecosystem. There has been a great deal of passion, and perhaps even some wisdom. Jim has kept a careful eye on the temperature of the debate, and a measure of decorum reigns. Guana is a microcosm. If we do not learn from local lessons, we will be unable to act globally. The "free energy" of the debate simply reflects the free spirits that subscribe. Personally, I think it is PRECISELY for this sort of exchange that coral-list exists. Mike PS-I repeat, I have no financial stake in Guana. My interest is academic. From Brylske at aol.com Sat Mar 18 10:39:33 2006 From: Brylske at aol.com (Brylske at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:39:33 EST Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? Message-ID: <292.791332a.314d83b5@aol.com> In a message dated 3/18/06 8:05:27 AM, cnidaria at earthlink.net writes: > Dear Pete, > > > I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will > kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as > "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is > about to approve such an action? We were? using Guana as a study site > to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline > diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor > over time during this current time, and if this development project > takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer > is paying we will loose this study site.? I was actually happy to see > that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can > be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an > educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > > Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the > corals of Guana.? We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this > open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your > "interesting data" from the Philippines! > > James > > Isn't it telling that some here view the Guana Cay discussion as "clogging up the list"? I can't imagine of a better illustration of an attitude that's keeping us from making real progress in reef conservation. Alex F. Brylske, Ph.D. Training Manager The Coral Reef Alliance (CORAL) "Working together to keep coral reefs alive." please respond to: 3324 SW 8th Court Cape Coral, FL 33914 USA Tel: +239-281-1197 Fax: +281-664-9497 E-mail: abrylske at coral.org Web site: www.coral.org International Office: 417 Montgomery Street, Suite 205 San Francisco, CA? 94104 Tel:? (415) 834-0900 Fax:? (415) 834-0999 This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. From reefteam2 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 18 11:09:27 2006 From: reefteam2 at yahoo.com (Dan Clark) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:09:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Question for Spiny Lobster Experts Message-ID: <20060318160927.4250.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Question to Spiny Lobster Experts The State of Florida is considering a request by the spiny lobster trap industry to shorten the time that lobster season is closed for breeding. Commercial harvest is usually closed from April 1 - Aug. 5. We have been diving here for decades and it has been our experience that we see a large number of egg bearing females during the month of August, the beginning of normal lobster season. Although Florida law prohibits the harvest of egg bearing females, we have to question what impact the deployment of many thousands of traps 3 weeks earlier then the normal August 1 date will have upon the breeding population and egg bearing females. Could this have a cascading effect on future lobster stocks? If their are any spiny lobster experts out there can we hear from you. Review and discussion of a request from the spiny lobster trap industry to move the date of trap deployment from August 1, 2006 to July 10, 2006, and to move the beginning date for this year's commercial harvest of spiny lobster by traps from August 6, 2006 to July 15, 2006. See http://myfwc.com/commission/2006/April/index.html Dan Clark Cry of the Water P.O. Box 8143 Coral Springs, FL 33075 954-753-9737 www.cryofthewater.org From cindyshaw177 at charter.net Sat Mar 18 19:06:54 2006 From: cindyshaw177 at charter.net (Cindy Shaw) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:06:54 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Cindy ' book... great!! Message-ID: <30367489.1142726814699.JavaMail.root@fepweb06> Hellen and any others who may be interested, I'd be happy to send you a copy of GROUPER MOON if you would send me your mailing address (please email me privately at "cindyshaw177 at hotmail.com"). In return, any cogent comments or ideas would be appreciated. The book has not been translated into Spanish, but I'd certainly be interested. Thanks, Cindy Shaw > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:19:55 +0100 > From: "Hellen Faus " > Subject: [Coral-List] Cindy ' book... great!! > To: > Message-ID: <011501c64772$5e32cff0$86c68a53 at kivuca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Cindy, your experience and idea of the book is really interesting. > Do you have it translated into Spanish? Do you think it could be interesting > to think about it if it isn't? Could you post or send me an image of an > inner page to have a look? > > This kind of iniciatives are what I think are very usefull... concientating > teachers and parents, and having the complicity of kids would do a great > job. It is one of my main ideas of starting up with all this... schools and > all this teaching resources. > > By the way, and thanks to the film "Nemo" I now remember how my niece, 7 > years old, when I show her my uw pictures, gets very excited recognizing > some of her idols in the "real world"... and she can identify more of what I > thought she'd do!!! This is what encourages me in this way. > > Buen azul a todos - Cheers. > > Hellen > > Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:53:34 -0800 > From: > Subject: [Coral-List] Education and Hollywood > To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" > Message-ID: <20994295.1142297614679.JavaMail.root at fepweb06> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > As a scientific illustrator and writer backgrounds in earth/marine science > and education, I am involved in the development of science educational > materials for K-12-college students and the lay public (geology and coral > reef ecology). > > In education we talk about different kinds of learning styles, and the need > to present subject matter in as many ways as possible in order to reach all > types of learners. Educating us (the public) about coral reef decline or any > other important issue needs as many approaches as possible: Inundate us with > entertaining/educational movies and TV programs, colorful books and articles > in print - even video games; integrate the subject matter all through the > K-12 curriculum (and mandate it as part of the national educational > standards), expand outreach activities - and cultivate supportive public > policy makers. > > As an example of what can be done in schools, current educational reform > encourages "authentic" (real life) learning and assessment using > multidisciplinary, problem-based approaches. Coral reef issues offer perfect > opportunities for such learning. > > In 1999, I wrote, illustrated, and published GROUPER MOON - a children's > science adventure for use in the classroom - fiction, with accurate science > that addresses the problems of over-fishing and coral reef decline. My > approach to the story was to create a lovable fish character (Cooper the > Grouper) - one with whom kids could relate and want to take care of (who > could not love a Nassau grouper?) - but through the boy character, the story > also addresses human concerns of being able "to have our fish and eat it, > too." Stan Waterman wrote the foreword. (For more details, see > www.aureliapress.com or amazon.com) > > My plan was to have teachers field test the book in their classrooms to see > how it might work with the curriculum; next, use their feedback to develop > formal lesson plans/activity guides and assessments to go with the book; > then tweak and reprint the book, if necessary - and, finally, market it as a > package. Soon after the book was printed, family matters sidetracked me for > several years, so I am just now in the curriculum development stage. (I do > this in my spare time between contracts.) > > Teacher and student response to the book has been very positive. Even > without any current marketing, orders for classroom sets of books stagger > in. Occasionally I am surprised by a package of art and letters from a > classroom of kids who ask "is it really true?" and how they think the story > should be made into a movie (really!) - actually, adult readers have said > the same thing, but I've never done a screenplay before. But if Hollywood > were to get involved with making ANY kind of coral reef movie, how about > doing so with plans to develop educational materials to go with it? (BTW, > are there currently materials to use with the IMAX production?) > > There is already a lot of good stuff out there, but where is it all, and how > can we avoid unnecessary duplication? I would suggest organizing a > coordinated, multidisciplinary approach to establish specific goals for > public education. Take an inventory of what is already being done, who is > doing it, and decide how these isolated projects can fit into a collective > effort - then figure out where the holes are, and go from there. > > Please don't hesitate to let me know how I can help. > > Best regards, > Cindy Shaw > > > 177 Kranichwood Street > Richland, WA 99352 > 509 627 3839 phone > 509 627 0703 fax > cindyshaw177 at hotmail.com > From martin_moe at yahoo.com Sat Mar 18 17:31:52 2006 From: martin_moe at yahoo.com (Martin Moe) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:31:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Question for Spiny Lobster Experts In-Reply-To: <20060318160927.4250.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060318223152.89105.qmail@web60016.mail.yahoo.com> Dan, This came up last fall and I was suprised to see it come up again, I thought it had been dismissed. But evidently not. I'm not an expert, but I did write a book about spiny lobsters in the eary 90s, and I follow the research and the fishery for spiny lobsters. When moving the start of the season first came up I wrote the below letter to the local press (it was published last December) for the purpose of informing the public, without being strident, as to why it wasn't a good idea. It still isn't a good idea. I've copied the letter below. You may find it of interest. Martin Moe There???s a reason for the season, the lobster season, that is???. There is a move afoot to advance the beginning of the 2006 commercial spiny lobster fishing season from August 6 to July 10. This potential advance of the opening of the season has gained the support of our congressional delegation. The reason for the move is to give this very important commercial fishing industry, so hard hit by the storms of 2005, a well deserved economic break. These are rough times for the lobster fishery. In addition to the trap destruction from the hurricanes, the fishery is besieged by declining catches, a virus disease in juvenile lobsters, increasing fuel prices, loss of fish houses and affordable dockage to waterfront development, and the basic economic pressures that affect all of us here in the Keys. The lobster fishermen deserve a break, that???s for sure, but is advancing the beginning of the commercial fishing season the right thing to do? Perhaps, but this could cause problems and such a move should not be made without due consideration of the possible negative results. In theory, commercial and recreational fishing seasons are established for management of the fishery based on sound fishery science that will maintain a sustainable natural resource and serve the best interests of the public, the environment, and the fishery. However, economic and political concerns are also a part of fishery management and often economic issues trump the good science of fishery management. Two of the strongest tools of fishery management are size limits, and closed seasons. Size limits protect breeding stocks and also function to bring the resource to market at the size that will provide the optimum economic yield to the fishery. Closed seasons are based on scientific research to protect the spawning process and also to allow new recruits into the fishery to grow to a size that will allow at least a first spawn and to achieve a size that will be most profitable to the fishery. This is why, in many fisheries, nets have a minimum size mesh and traps have an escape gap which allow undersize fish and invertebrates to escape capture. There are four major concerns that should be considered by fishery managers before advancing the beginning of the commercial spiny lobster season. 1. Minimum size. A size limit on spiny lobster was first set in 1929 at one pound. The minimum size was changed in 1953 to a tail length of 6 inches (which was a carapace length of 3 ?? inches). In 1965 the minimum size law was again changed to a tail length of 5 ?? inches and a carapace length of 3 inches. This reduction in minimum size changed the entire fishery for it opened up the smaller, younger lobster populations in Florida Bay to the commercial fishery. It also reduced protection of spawning stocks because first spawning of spiny lobsters usually occurs at a carapace length above 3 inches. Juvenile spiny lobsters grow most rapidly in the summer months and most young lobsters in July are just below the legal size. Allowing commercial fishing to begin in early July will greatly increase the number of short lobsters taken in the fishery. These short lobsters will, for the most part, be retained in traps in hopes that they will molt and become of legal size by the next time the trap is harvested. A newly molted lobster in a trap has little protection during the molt and during the soft shell phase right after molt and may be subject to an increased risk of predation and death while in the trap. Thus beginning the commercial season in early July may have the effect of actually decreasing the number of lobsters taken to market during the season. 2. The lobsters that survive the fishery are actively spawning on the offshore reefs during July. Even though it is illegal to take egg bearing female lobsters at any time, capture of egg holding females in traps disrupts the spawning process and can result in loss of the spawn. And if the recreational dive season begins at the same time as the opening of the commercial season, disruption of females carrying eggs would be major. 3. Beginning the commercial season in early July will create additional conflicts with the recreational lobster fishery. It would be politically and economically difficult (and extremely difficult to enforce) the delay of the recreational lobster season to several weeks after the beginning of the commercial season. The two day ???mini season??? would then have to be changed to the first week of July or be held ineffectively long after the start of the regular season. 4. Many commercial fishing interests would like to see fishery management of Keys stocks conducted on multi species basis to allow the most economically efficient use of seasonal time. This would allow sequential harvest of various stocks, lobster, stone crab, mackerel, dolphin, etc., reducing temporal overlap of fishing efforts on various species. An earlier start to the lobster season would make sequential harvest of Keys stocks much easier and there would be strong pressure to permanently advance the opening of the lobster season. The fact that we are now in a phase of increased hurricane activity would also argue for permanent advancement of the lobster season. My point is not that the start of the commercial lobster season should not be advanced in 2006. I just want to point out that this is a complex proposal with many biological, economic, social, and political ramifications and it is not just a simple matter of giving the commercial fishery a break, no matter how well deserved or needed. Perhaps advancing the start of the season would be a good thing, but there are many factors and complications (many more than I have advanced above) that fishery managers, the commercial fishery, and politicians must consider before making such a major decision, and the future of the South Florida spiny lobster resource, along with the immediate economic concerns of the commercial fishery, should be a major part of the consideration. Martin Moe --- Dan Clark wrote: > Question to Spiny Lobster Experts > > The State of Florida is considering a request by > the spiny lobster trap industry to shorten the time > that lobster season is closed for breeding. > Commercial harvest is usually closed from April 1 - > Aug. 5. > > > We have been diving here for decades and it has > been our experience that we see a large number of > egg bearing females during the month of August, the > beginning of normal lobster season. Although > Florida law prohibits the harvest of egg bearing > females, we have to question what impact the > deployment of many thousands of traps 3 weeks > earlier then the normal August 1 date will have upon > the breeding population and egg bearing females. > Could this have a cascading effect on future lobster > stocks? > > If their are any spiny lobster experts out there > can we hear from you. > > > Review and discussion of a request from the spiny > lobster trap industry to move the date of trap > deployment from August 1, 2006 to July 10, 2006, and > to move the beginning date for this year's > commercial harvest of spiny lobster by traps from > August 6, 2006 to July 15, 2006. See > http://myfwc.com/commission/2006/April/index.html > > > Dan Clark > > > > > > > > Cry of the Water > P.O. Box 8143 > Coral Springs, FL 33075 > 954-753-9737 > www.cryofthewater.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From psr at coralcay.org Sun Mar 19 16:28:47 2006 From: psr at coralcay.org (Pete Raines) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:47 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006301c64b9c$1bcc6800$1946a8c0@cccpete> Dear James, Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: "Likewise, mate"! As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of my recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed to the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was in the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk hostile or personally abusive. I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, and co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - period!. Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal profession - enough said! Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can be accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the confines of the USA. Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and influential and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully accomplish way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. All the best, Pete _____________________________________________ Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD Founder & Chairman Coral Cay Conservation Ltd 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 email: psr at coralcay.org www.coralcay.org DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are stored for future reference. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org ______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. Cervino Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? Dear Pete, I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor over time during this current time, and if this development project takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an educational tool so close to US coastal cities. Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your "interesting data" from the Philippines! James Dear all, I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" etc etc,.... Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope that my initial concerns are unfounded. Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up the open channel that coral-list was established for. So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming out of there, if you are interested. Cheers, Pete -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Pathology Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From cnidaria at earthlink.net Sun Mar 19 18:00:28 2006 From: cnidaria at earthlink.net (James M. Cervino (Marine Biologist)) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:00:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? Message-ID: <16678088.1142809228608.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dear Pete, We actually did and continue to spend most of our time working in other countries out-side of USA borders. Our main focus is in the past 10 years is the Indo-Pacific and New Guinea. I can remember a few years back when a hand full of aquarium-hobby experts were telling me that NaCN (cyanide) does not kill corals because "we gloom and doom types did not have enough evidence" to make the claim that it was a respiratory inhibitor thereby leading to cell death. Jones et al. spent allot of time showing how it inhibited photosynthesis using the PAM followed by our paper published in Marine Pollution Bull that HCN actually does kill corals. We wasted allot of time debating the cyanide issue because the press (NEWS) saw opposition from a few aquarium industry moguls as to the actual concentration that is lethal to corals. Therefore, we basically killed numerous corals in controlled experiments (this was a travesty) to show that cyanide is lethal to corals. I am sure that the HCN debate helped force agencies to see how minor doses of HCN kills corals and that farming or a complete ban on imports is the only way to sustain the remaining corals remaining in the wild. Did the coral list debate work? Not sure, as the revolving door of captured corals from endangered reefs is continuing and HCN is still being used to capture fish. Maybe you can share this ?interesting data with us regarding the Philippines? does it have anything to do with the Golf Course that was supposed to open on Boracay Island? Is the coral cay group fighting against this? I don?t want to be an activist as I am now focusing my time on mechanisms/stresses that impair the symbiotic association between coral and its resident algal cell. But the Guana group really needed help so we offered to join forces. It would be great if we can get the Pace University Law Clinic on this one as Bobby Kennedy and his highly competent colleagues can help us win this case if they were able to go outside US borders. The Guana issue may be lost, even though we have enough evidence showing that golf courses, dredging, and nutrient enrichment kills corals! But the PRESS seem to be writing articles claiming that this development may not be stressful to the reef, due to a few financially compensated scientists providing the government with reasonable doubt. It does not seem to matter that the hired scientists have not published one paper on the biology and physiology of corals, nutrient analysis chemistry, coral diseases and coral algal interactions. It is clear that they don?t have an understanding of the delicate symbiotic association and sensitivity concerning the skin and cells lining the limestone skeletons on the surfaces corals, or they would not be backing this environmental nightmare. I hope that the scientists hired by the developer, turn their back on this multimillion-dollar corporation that is evidently not a green operator. Lets all hope that they see the light and join the peoples fighting to save the corals of this region. What we need is for the group that presented a plan to implement an MPA near Man-O-War Cay to develop a MPA plan that has "teeth" and directly addresses NON-POINT SOURCES of pollution that effect corals to be added into their fish protection plan. The point being; is that this coral list server reaches, educators, press and political peoples that look to us coral marine scientists for an up to date analysis as to the current trends of the worlds reefs. The debate is needed. James I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed, there would be no more wars. Abbie Hoffman From cnidaria at earthlink.net Sun Mar 19 18:04:47 2006 From: cnidaria at earthlink.net (James M. Cervino (Marine Biologist)) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:04:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coral-List] The Sensitivity of Host and Symbiotic Algal Cells Message-ID: <4572424.1142809487720.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dear Pete, We actually did and continue to spend most of our time working in other countries out-side of USA borders. Our main focus is in the past 10 years is the Indo-Pacific and New Guinea. I can remember a few years back when a hand full of aquarium-hobby experts were telling me that NaCN (cyanide) does not kill corals because "we gloom and doom types did not have enough evidence" to make the claim that it was a respiratory inhibitor thereby leading to cell death. Jones et al. spent allot of time showing how it inhibited photosynthesis using the PAM followed by our paper published in Marine Pollution Bull that HCN actually does kill corals. We wasted allot of time debating the cyanide issue because the press (NEWS) saw opposition from a few aquarium industry moguls as to the actual concentration that is lethal to corals. Therefore, we basically killed numerous corals in controlled experiments (this was a travesty) to show that cyanide is lethal to corals. I am sure that the HCN debate helped force agencies to see how minor doses of HCN kills corals and that farming or a complete ban on imports is the only way to sustain the remaining corals remaining in the wild. Did the coral list debate work? Not sure, as the revolving door of captured corals from endangered reefs is continuing and HCN is still being used to capture fish. Maybe you can share this ?interesting data with us regarding the Philippines? does it have anything to do with the Golf Course that was supposed to open on Boracay Island? Is the coral cay group fighting against this? I don?t want to be an activist as I am now focusing my time on mechanisms/stresses that impair the symbiotic association between coral and its resident algal cell. But the Guana group really needed help so we offered to join forces. It would be great if we can get the Pace University Law Clinic on this one as Bobby Kennedy and his highly competent colleagues can help us win this case if they were able to go outside US borders. The Guana issue may be lost, even though we have enough evidence showing that golf courses, dredging, and nutrient enrichment kills corals! But the PRESS seem to be writing articles claiming that this development may not be stressful to the reef, due to a few financially compensated scientists providing the government with reasonable doubt. It does not seem to matter that the hired scientists have not published one paper on the biology and physiology of corals, nutrient analysis chemistry, coral diseases and coral algal interactions. It is clear that they don?t have an understanding of the delicate symbiotic association and sensitivity concerning the skin and cells lining the limestone skeletons on the surfaces corals, or they would not be backing this environmental nightmare. I hope that the scientists hired by the developer, turn their back on this multimillion-dollar corporation that is evidently not a green operator. Lets all hope that they see the light and join the peoples fighting to save the corals of this region. What we need is for the group that presented a plan to implement an MPA near Man-O-War Cay to develop a MPA plan that has "teeth" and directly addresses NON-POINT SOURCES of pollution that effect corals to be added into their fish protection plan. The point being; is that this coral list server reaches, educators, press and political peoples that look to us coral marine scientists for an up to date analysis as to the current trends of the worlds reefs. The debate is needed. James I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed, there would be no more wars. Abbie Hoffman From rom at vims.edu Sun Mar 19 16:09:37 2006 From: rom at vims.edu (Rom Lipcius) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:09:37 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Question for Spiny Lobster Experts In-Reply-To: <20060318160927.4250.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060318160927.4250.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060319160217.024a5ea0@vims.edu> Dear Dan: The Caribbean spiny lobster usually has two peaks in reproduction (egg-bearing), a major one in the spring followed by a minor one in the early fall (August-September). The minor one in the fall is likely one that is comprised of newly matured young lobsters that have molted in the spring and early summer, mated later, and then produced eggs in the fall. The larger, older females typically reproduce earlier in the year and then possibly a second time in the early fall. The point of this is that allowing trapping in the fall would prevent some of the youngest mature lobsters from reproducing, and these individuals would therefore never have reproduced. In addition, it would wipe out the characteristic secondary peak in reproduction. I hope this helps, and if you wish I can provide references from some of my work and that of other lobster scientists. Regards, Rom Lipcius At 11:09 AM 3/18/2006, Dan Clark wrote: >Question to Spiny Lobster Experts > > The State of Florida is considering a request by the spiny > lobster trap industry to shorten the time that lobster season is > closed for breeding. Commercial harvest is usually closed from > April 1 - Aug. 5. > > We have been diving here for decades and it has been our > experience that we see a large number of egg bearing females during > the month of August, the beginning of normal lobster > season. Although Florida law prohibits the harvest of egg bearing > females, we have to question what impact the deployment of many > thousands of traps 3 weeks earlier then the normal August 1 date > will have upon the breeding population and egg bearing females. > Could this have a cascading effect on future lobster stocks? > > If their are any spiny lobster experts out there can we hear from you. > > Review and discussion of a request from the spiny lobster trap > industry to move the date of trap deployment from August 1, 2006 to > July 10, 2006, and to move the beginning date for this year's > commercial harvest of spiny lobster by traps from August 6, 2006 to > July 15, 2006. See http://myfwc.com/commission/2006/April/index.html > > Dan Clark > > Cry of the Water > P.O. Box 8143 > Coral Springs, FL 33075 > 954-753-9737 > www.cryofthewater.org > _______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list Romuald N. Lipcius, Ph.D. 2006 Aldo Leopold Leadership Fellow & Professor of Marine Science Virginia Institute of Marine Science, The College of William and Mary 1208 Greate Road, Gloucester Point, VA 23062 USA 804-684-7330, rom at vims.edu http://www.vims.edu/fish/faculty/lipcius_rn.html From capman at augsburg.edu Mon Mar 20 02:58:38 2006 From: capman at augsburg.edu (capman at augsburg.edu) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:58:38 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? In-Reply-To: <006301c64b9c$1bcc6800$1946a8c0@cccpete> References: <006301c64b9c$1bcc6800$1946a8c0@cccpete> Message-ID: I am a biologist, but I can only marginally call myself a coral researcher (even though I have been working some with corals in recent years). Consequently, for the several years that I have been signed up on the Coral List I have mostly just read what others have had to say, and only occasionally have had things to contribute. In the past few years I have noticed a fairly extreme intolerance on the Coral List for discussions that might be seen as straying too far from the mission of the list, and a strong tendency for people to quickly move their conversations to private e-mails rather than continuing them on the public forum. To a certain extent this is good, though I often wish that more of the conversations that follow from the postings to the list (and answers to questions posted on the list) were done in the public forum so that more of us could benefit from the wealth of expertise represented by the members of the list. As far as messages clogging e-mail inboxes is concerned though, there is a fairly easy solution: Most e-mail programs (including ones like Eudora that you can download for free) allow you to filter messages. All of my Coral List e-mails get send automatically to a separate mailbox where they are easy to find, but not clogging my main Inbox. The other thing I do, once these e-mails are neatly tucked away is this: I simply don't read them all. I just read the ones that look like they are likely to be of interest to me (and once a thread has become boring or not relevant to me anymore, it is very easy to simply not read the further responses). This is pretty easy to do. If a person is in a remote location with very poor Internet access (where each additional bit of data that is received really is a burden), then I suppose my solution does not address the fundamental problem, and I can see where this would be a big reason for keeping postings to the list to a minimum. The drain on the moderator's time that would result from large numbers of posts would be another reason. However, my sense it that the bigger concern tends to be from people who simply don't want the distraction and bother of getting too many e-mails all the time. As I noted above, it seems that there are easy ways to not be bothered by Coral List e-mails without limiting conversations that many (though not all) on the list might find valuable. Bill >Dear James, > >Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. >Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative >and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: >"Likewise, mate"! > >As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List >upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of my >recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I >have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the >Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since >withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > >James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed to >the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was in >the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk >hostile or personally abusive. > >I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, and >co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding >Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my >opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an >arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - period!. >Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from >certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely >profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal >profession - enough said! > >Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US >scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born >in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the >Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can be >accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the >confines of the USA. > >Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be >spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding >Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and influential >and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all >this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; >their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent >re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) >important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a >one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the >Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully accomplish >way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. > >There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My >point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? >For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. > >All the best, > >Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > >_____________________________________________ >Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD >Founder & Chairman > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd >40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK >Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) >Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) >Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 >email: psr at coralcay.org >www.coralcay.org > > >DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended >only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential >and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed >to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender >immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this >message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no >liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay >Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot >accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent >transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are >stored for future reference. >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United >Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org >______________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- >From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. >Cervino >Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? > >Dear Pete, > > >I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will >kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as >"clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is >about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site >to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline >diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor >over time during this current time, and if this development project >takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer >is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see >that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can >be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an >educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > >Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the >corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this >open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your >"interesting data" from the Philippines! > >James > > > > > > > > >Dear all, > >I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my >emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" >etc etc,.... > >Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past >12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I >choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed >because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has >been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope >that my initial concerns are unfounded. > >Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those >wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know >very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to >another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up >the open channel that coral-list was established for. > >So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral >reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming >out of there, if you are interested. > >Cheers, > >Pete >-- >************************************************** >Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. >Marine Pathology >Department of Biological & Health Sciences >Pace University New York NYC >Phone: (917) 620-5287 >Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org >*************************************************** >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From j_urich at yahoo.com Sun Mar 19 21:45:38 2006 From: j_urich at yahoo.com (Juan F Urich) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:45:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog? Message-ID: <20060320024538.54394.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Listers: I am not aware on the previous discussion (before march 19th), on the subject topic, nevertheless James comment to Pete is quite illustrative of the whole issue. I believe that the discussion about cloging could reveal some escapism from reality, therefore I dont delve in it any further. In pretty much a Forest Gump mood that I dont neccesarily expect my readers to share or agree upon I will only address James comment to Pete. When these issues show up I believe the opportunity arises for Coral Reef Scientists and concerned citizen to realize that a) For developers arguments such as conserving a reef as a needed study site, matters to them pretty much the same as if we plant or not trees on Earth day, and b) The need to enforce with Robust Transdisciplinary Science (Ecological & Economic) on the making, such concepts as the Precautelative Principle, Resilience, and Ecologically sound and proccess based Measurement of Ecosystem Services that can be manageable and useful to Academic Economists and Policy Makers. The conflict at hand is actually between short term economic "efficient" expectations of returns (even if the payback period of the project is 25 years which would allow for all the needed "Science" and "sustainability" feel), and the loss of Ecosytem Services usually improperly valued with current economic tools and ecological concepts. An illustrative review paper on this rising awareness is "Regime Shift, Resilience,and Biodiversity in Ecosystem Management" By Carl Folke, Steve Carpenter, Brian Walker, Thomas Elmqvist, Lance Gunderson, and C.S. Holling in Ann. Rev. Ecol. Evol. Syst 35: 557-581 2004. "THAT?S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT" Regards to all listers Juan Urich Venezuela --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. From jonshrives at yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 10:08:24 2006 From: jonshrives at yahoo.com (Jonathan Shrives) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:08:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] The State of the List Message-ID: <20060320150824.84092.qmail@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Jim, In response to the last few threads about Guana Cay (Oh no I hear you cry - not MORE Guana Cay - but just bare with me a minute!), I feel that it's an important part of the list to have such debates. So what if its been the focus of a week's worth of e-mails? I'm currently researching corals as part of my PhD, and I've seen some big names make valuable contributions on this list. There have been references bounded around that I have dug out, and found to be really useful in furthering my research. As a junior researcher, starting my career, I have found the list to be an invaluable tool. I have spent the last year trawling through publisher's websites, Web of Knowledge, Google Scholar, and other such online journal search engines, and yet the list has always provided me with some of the best references to hunt out. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, big deal! Viva the List! I believe it's in the nature of us all to get passionate about what we believe in - and thus get focused on certain issues - otherwise we wouldn't be coral scientists ( it isn't like we do it for the money! ). I believe that the list will go on long after the Guana Cay debate, and still contribute massively to the causes of research and conservation. I don't think there are many researchers who don't know that every reef out there is under threat from localised and global anthropogenic pollution. However I think it is important to see how Guana Cay goes. I think it's important to see how scientists and conservationists fare up against powerful, money-centric developers and governments. I think it's a mini-case study on the backdoor of Florida, that will one day, I'm afraid, be a problem faced by any researcher in any part of the world. Maybe we should all re-train and become environmental lawyers?! In summary, I don't think contributors to the list should feel bullied or guilt-tripped into concentrating on other issues (certainly not by the CEO's of ecotourism companies!). The List is what it is, and if someone isn't happy with it - then unsubscribe! - that?s their problem not ours. Thanks once again for all your efforts Jim and Listers. Life would be a lot more difficult without the list! Cheers Jon Shrives Jonathan Shrives Tropical Ecology Research Group University of Oxford From reefteam2 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 08:55:50 2006 From: reefteam2 at yahoo.com (Dan Clark) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:55:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Questions about Spiny Lobsters In-Reply-To: <20060318160927.4250.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060320135550.72837.qmail@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We did not mean to limit the responses we are receiving on the list to experts, although we did ask the question in that tone. All comments are appreciated. Thank you to those who responded on the list and to us personally. Dan Clark Dan Clark wrote: Question to Spiny Lobster Experts The State of Florida is considering a request by the spiny lobster trap industry to shorten the time that lobster season is closed for breeding. Commercial harvest is usually closed from April 1 - Aug. 5. We have been diving here for decades and it has been our experience that we see a large number of egg bearing females during the month of August, the beginning of normal lobster season. Although Florida law prohibits the harvest of egg bearing females, we have to question what impact the deployment of many thousands of traps 3 weeks earlier then the normal August 1 date will have upon the breeding population and egg bearing females. Could this have a cascading effect on future lobster stocks? Review and discussion of a request from the spiny lobster trap industry to move the date of trap deployment from August 1, 2006 to July 10, 2006, and to move the beginning date for this year's commercial harvest of spiny lobster by traps from August 6, 2006 to July 15, 2006. See http://myfwc.com/commission/2006/April/index.html Dan Clark Cry of the Water P.O. Box 8143 Coral Springs, FL 33075 954-753-9737 www.cryofthewater.org _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list Cry of the Water P.O. Box 8143 Coral Springs, FL 33075 954-753-9737 www.cryofthewater.org From Jill.Meyer at noaa.gov Mon Mar 20 13:05:04 2006 From: Jill.Meyer at noaa.gov (Jill.Meyer at noaa.gov) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:05:04 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Program Specialist Position IM Systems Group Message-ID: <7095971630.7163070959@noaa.gov> The following position is now available. Please follow the application information below if you are interested. Regards, Jill Meyer Position: Coral Program Specialist Overview: I.M. Systems Group (www.imsg.com), a contractor to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Silver Spring, MD, seeks an individual to serve as a Coral Program Specialist. This individual will work with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration?s (NOAA?s) Coral Reef Conservation Program (CRCP- http://www.coralreef.noaa.gov/) in the areas of program coordination, program development, strategic planning, partnership building, and information management. NOAA?s Coral Reef Conservation Program supports effective management and sound science to preserve, sustain and restore valuable coral reef ecosystems. This position is with the program?s headquarters? coordination team. Core Responsibilities: ? Support program strategic planning efforts including identification of priorities, development of performance measures, and implementation of an external program review process. ? Manage information related to the internal NOAA funding process. This includes managing the CRCP database, maintaining spreadsheets generated from the database, documenting funding decisions, and creating funding summary reports. ? Participate in internal NOAA proposal and project evaluations ? Coordinate the Coral Reef Information System (www.coris.noaa.gov) editorial board and serve as coral program liaison to the CORIS project team. ? Serve as backup support on content and updates to NOAA?s coral newsletters and web-sites. Qualifications: Required Qualifications: ? Bachelors degree in a relevant discipline such as marine science, biology, marine policy, environmental management, or policy ? Strong verbal and writing skills ? Strong organization skills and attention to detail ? Self motivated energetic strategic thinker ? Ability to work well individually and cooperatively with a range of individuals ? Ability to work on several projects simultaneously and to shift priorities as needed. ? Willingness to learn new skills ? Technical proficiency with Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Word. Desired: ? Two ?three years of program or project planning preferred ? Experience developing performance measures ? Familiarity with coral reef conservation and management issues ? Proficient in database organization and web-site management The vacancy announcement is open until filled. The target start date is April 24. The salary for this position is the mid $40,000s commensurate with experience. Qualified candidates may apply by emailing a cover letter, resume, and 3 references (MS Word format strongly preferred) to the following email: jobs at imsg.com and meyerj at imsg.com with the subject heading: ORR06-001 Coral Program Specialist. -------------- next part -------------- Today's Topics: 1. Reef Regeneration (Amy Ridgeway) 2. 3rd announcement (Bonaire National Marine Park) 3. Cold-water coral website launched (Murray Roberts) 4. Re: Reef Regeneration (Tom Williams) 5. Re: Coral List Submission (Tom Williams) 6. Coral Rehabilitation (reefball at reefball.com) 7. short term coral growth (Tennille Irvine) -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From layoub at mail.marine.usf.edu Mon Mar 20 14:04:45 2006 From: layoub at mail.marine.usf.edu (Lore Ayoub) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:04:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coral-List] The State of the List In-Reply-To: <20060320150824.84092.qmail@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060320150824.84092.qmail@web35403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50712.71.99.111.210.1142881485.squirrel@mailbox3.acomp.usf.edu> Jon, thank you for your well-put defense of the current discussion - this is a forum, after all. And our research is ineffectual without influence and awareness in wider circles ie the public. Lore > Dear Jim, > > In response to the last few threads about Guana Cay > (Oh no I hear you cry - not MORE Guana Cay - but just > bare with me a minute!), I feel that it's an important > part of the list to have such debates. So what if its > been the focus of a week's worth of e-mails? I'm > currently researching corals as part of my PhD, and > I've seen some big names make valuable contributions > on this list. There have been references bounded > around that I have dug out, and found to be really > useful in furthering my research. As a junior > researcher, starting my career, I have found the list > to be an invaluable tool. I have spent the last year > trawling through publisher's websites, Web of > Knowledge, Google Scholar, and other such online > journal search engines, and yet the list has always > provided me with some of the best references to hunt > out. > > So I guess what I'm trying to say is, big deal! Viva > the List! I believe it's in the nature of us all to > get passionate about what we believe in - and thus get > focused on certain issues - otherwise we wouldn't be > coral scientists ( it isn't like we do it for the > money! ). I believe that the list will go on long > after the Guana Cay debate, and still contribute > massively to the causes of research and conservation. > I don't think there are many researchers who don't > know that every reef out there is under threat from > localised and global anthropogenic pollution. However > I think it is important to see how Guana Cay goes. I > think it's important to see how scientists and > conservationists fare up against powerful, > money-centric developers and governments. I think it's > a mini-case study on the backdoor of Florida, that > will one day, I'm afraid, be a problem faced by any > researcher in any part of the world. Maybe we should > all re-train and become environmental lawyers?! > > In summary, I don't think contributors to the list > should feel bullied or guilt-tripped into > concentrating on other issues (certainly not by the > CEO's of ecotourism companies!). The List is what it > is, and if someone isn't happy with it - then > unsubscribe! - that?s their problem not ours. > > Thanks once again for all your efforts Jim and > Listers. Life would be a lot more difficult without > the list! > > Cheers > > Jon Shrives > > > Jonathan Shrives > Tropical Ecology Research Group > University of Oxford > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From solutions at cozm.co.uk Mon Mar 20 12:48:24 2006 From: solutions at cozm.co.uk (Duncan MacRae) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:48:24 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Mangroves as stabilising plants References: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov><5.2.0.9.2.20060318125100.024a4640@pop.tm.net.my> <001a01c64a92$98e0ae60$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: <001e01c64c46$7cf0b7d0$c5594754@DRM> I'm not sure if either of you guys have been to Selingan recently, but there seems to be some major sediment movements going on (that all look relatively recent). The spit to the west of the island seems to be growing, whilst the other beaches are being eroded significantly - seemingly due to the off shore breakwater that already exists!. I realise this is causing issues for the buildings on the island, but the turtles are adapting fine. Sooo medalling here already seems to have caused problems. To put it bluntly I do not agree with the idea to establish a mangrove stand on the island for two main reasons: 1. there are no mangroves on the island currently because the situation is NOT a suitable habitat - for numerous reasons 2. the islands sediments are dynamic and any attempt to stabilise them will no doubt fail in the long term or lead to further problems in the prevailing direction of littoral drift - with the possibility of mangroves and their associated nutrients/sediments ending up on the reefs It would be a far better idea in the long run to remove the threatened buildings (dilapidated dive store, staff quarters etc) and make them temporary structures made out of local materials such as those on stilts constructed for the Govt. fishing project near by. These can then be moved/reconstructed as required. I hope more folk out there can add to this discussion. Best, Duncan Duncan R. MacRae Director Coastal Zone Management (UK) Integrated Conservation Solutions Blythe Cottage 22 Rosemundy St. Agnes Cornwall TR5 0UD Tel: ++ (0)1872 552 219 Mobile: ++(0)7958 230 076 E-mail: solutions at cozm.co.uk Website: www.cozm.co.uk This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Barber" To: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" ; Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Sabah and reefballs > Hi Nicolas, > > Why would you think I am using Reef Balls to save the day? We're looking > at > planting mangroves to help stabilize the beaches because Reef Balls > offshore > (8 years ago) have stopped the netting and increased the turtle nestings > substaintially so they need as much space as possible. Come on folks, we > are an NGO, not a marketing company. Sure, we use Reef Balls in a lot of > our projects but only as one management tool of many. > > > Thanks, > > Todd Barber > Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. > 3305 Edwards Court > Greenville, NC 27858 > reefball at reefball.com > > http://www.artificialreefs.org > http://www.reefball.org > http://www.reefball.com > > Direct: 252-353-9094 > mobile: 941-720-7549 > Fax 425-963-4119 > > Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball > Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation > Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: > Available upon request > > Atlanta/Athens Office > 890 Hill Street > Athens, GA 30606 USA > 770-752-0202 > (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" > To: "Todd Barber" ; > > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:57 PM > Subject: Sabah and reefballs > > >> Interesting to hear that reefballs are going to save Sabah's reefs from >> erosion. Ever seen what continued man--made structures end up looking >> like >> many years after being deployed in areas where shifting sands due to >> predominant current patters persists? The Maldives might be a good >> example >> of the continued need to adjust and shift these. The turtle islands have >> been subject to a two-phase sand shift with the monsoon season for many >> more years than reef-balls, and turtles, which require a stable nesting >> habitat in order to successfully propagate as a group of species. Sand >> moves one way in the monsoon season, the other in the off season. And >> while sand is ultimately shifting slowly in one direction, the islands >> are >> obviously sufficiently stable for turtles, which nest on their natal >> beaches but require a 30 year developmental period. That is, the islands >> are stable enough for 30 years, yet reefballs are going to save the day? >> >> >>>I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle >>>nesting >>>grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) islands, >>>so >>>I >>>won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a comment try >>>emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick out on a >>>slow internet connection. >> >> I am writing from Sabah with a fast broadband connection. You'll end up >> in >> hotels all of which have wireless broadband access for guests - yes, >> right >> here in Borneo, of all places! I'd appreciate if you would not suggest >> that this is a backward destination, you might find in many ways Sabah >> has >> a lot more to offer. >> >> Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher >> Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group >> >> Executive Director >> Marine Research Foundation >> 136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 >> Taman Khidmat >> 88450 Kota Kinabalu >> Sabah >> Malaysia >> >> Tel ++ 60 88 386136 >> Fax ++ 60 88 387136 >> Email: pilcher at tm.net.my >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From cat64fish at yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 14:18:55 2006 From: cat64fish at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Low) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:18:55 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a forum/bulletin board? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I wonder if the list should be moved to a more structured forum / bulletin board? That way, people can pick and choose whihc topics are of interest to them, administrators can be assigned regardless of location etc. Any thoughts on this? Cheers, Jeff capman at augsburg.edu wrote: I am a biologist, but I can only marginally call myself a coral researcher (even though I have been working some with corals in recent years). Consequently, for the several years that I have been signed up on the Coral List I have mostly just read what others have had to say, and only occasionally have had things to contribute. In the past few years I have noticed a fairly extreme intolerance on the Coral List for discussions that might be seen as straying too far from the mission of the list, and a strong tendency for people to quickly move their conversations to private e-mails rather than continuing them on the public forum. To a certain extent this is good, though I often wish that more of the conversations that follow from the postings to the list (and answers to questions posted on the list) were done in the public forum so that more of us could benefit from the wealth of expertise represented by the members of the list. As far as messages clogging e-mail inboxes is concerned though, there is a fairly easy solution: Most e-mail programs (including ones like Eudora that you can download for free) allow you to filter messages. All of my Coral List e-mails get send automatically to a separate mailbox where they are easy to find, but not clogging my main Inbox. The other thing I do, once these e-mails are neatly tucked away is this: I simply don't read them all. I just read the ones that look like they are likely to be of interest to me (and once a thread has become boring or not relevant to me anymore, it is very easy to simply not read the further responses). This is pretty easy to do. If a person is in a remote location with very poor Internet access (where each additional bit of data that is received really is a burden), then I suppose my solution does not address the fundamental problem, and I can see where this would be a big reason for keeping postings to the list to a minimum. The drain on the moderator's time that would result from large numbers of posts would be another reason. However, my sense it that the bigger concern tends to be from people who simply don't want the distraction and bother of getting too many e-mails all the time. As I noted above, it seems that there are easy ways to not be bothered by Coral List e-mails without limiting conversations that many (though not all) on the list might find valuable. Bill >Dear James, > >Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. >Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative >and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: >"Likewise, mate"! > >As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List >upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of my >recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I >have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the >Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since >withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > >James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed to >the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was in >the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk >hostile or personally abusive. > >I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, and >co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding >Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my >opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an >arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - period!. >Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from >certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely >profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal >profession - enough said! > >Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US >scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born >in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the >Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can be >accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the >confines of the USA. > >Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be >spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding >Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and influential >and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all >this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; >their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent >re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) >important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a >one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the >Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully accomplish >way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. > >There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My >point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? >For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. > >All the best, > >Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > >_____________________________________________ >Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD >Founder & Chairman > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd >40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK >Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) >Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) >Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 >email: psr at coralcay.org >www.coralcay.org > > >DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended >only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential >and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed >to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender >immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this >message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no >liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay >Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot >accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent >transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are >stored for future reference. >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United >Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org >______________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- >From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. >Cervino >Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? > >Dear Pete, > > >I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will >kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as >"clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is >about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site >to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline >diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor >over time during this current time, and if this development project >takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer >is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see >that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can >be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an >educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > >Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the >corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this >open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your >"interesting data" from the Philippines! > >James > > > > > > > > >Dear all, > >I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my >emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" >etc etc,.... > >Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past >12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I >choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed >because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has >been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope >that my initial concerns are unfounded. > >Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those >wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know >very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to >another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up >the open channel that coral-list was established for. > >So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral >reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming >out of there, if you are interested. > >Cheers, > >Pete >-- >************************************************** >Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. >Marine Pathology >Department of Biological & Health Sciences >Pace University New York NYC >Phone: (917) 620-5287 >Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org >*************************************************** >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list --------------------------------- Meet your soulmate! Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather From ricksanders at comcast.net Mon Mar 20 13:20:45 2006 From: ricksanders at comcast.net (Rick Sanders) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:20:45 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Way to help protect Guana Cay reef Message-ID: <001e01c64c4b$01f96ea0$640da8c0@manta> Thanks to the Coral-List I found out about Guana Cay from a post by Erik Gauger. I took one look at some of the aerial photos that Erik Gauger had on his website: http://www.notesfromtheroad.com/WestIndies/bakers_bay_intro4.htm and I had to go and see it for my self. I recently visited Guana Cay in January and had a chance to dive on the reefs directly off of Bakers Bay. Although not pristine like I had hoped they were healthy enough to attract spotted eagle rays, few sharks, and some large groupers on almost everyone of my 6 dives. Macro algae is starting to dominate the reef community and any more disturbance is likely to push it over the edge as Dr Risk and Dr Cervino have pointed out with very strong evidence (whether or not it is due to a reduction in herbivore activity or increased nutrient influx the result is the same....macroalgae domination). I wanted all the Coral-List members to know that the NON PROFIT organization Save Guana Cay Reef is holding a RAFFLE that ends March 25th to raise funds to help support the court battle they are fighting to protect the reefs of Guana Cay. Included in the prizes that can be won are many chances to win a week stay on Guana Cay and get a chance to experience first hand the island that everyone is up and arms about..... I saw it and it there is no question that it is worth fighting for! PLEASE HELP THE FIGHT BY DONATING TO THIS NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION OF HIGH INTEGRITY THAT IS FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR ALL OF US AND MAYBE GET A CHANCE TO VISIT THE ISLAND AND FABLED REEF YOURSELF....REMEMBER ALL GREAT THINGS START SMALL...... examples: A weeks stay at these homes Jim Alderman House-Li'l Gecko Ernie Pipe House-Shorecrest 2 Toby Strong House-Penury Hall Dick Hewett House-Gin & Tonic Tom Tunny House-Hermits Peak Dolphin Beach Resort- 3 day Sunset Beach - Discount on Stay Day Sail on LOKADUNE Day Sail on SKYLARK Dive Guana-3 day boat rental Blue Water Grill-Dinner for two Dive Guana-Snorkle Trip Here at the details of the Raffle...DRAWING HAPPENS ON MARCH 25TH See this link: http://p098.ezboard.com/fsaveguanacayreeffrm2 You can purchase your SGCR Raffle Tickets through the Click to Donate Button on the SGCR Website Homepage: http://www.saveguanacayreef.com/ You MUST also send an email to diveguana at yahoo.com to let them know you have done so and a ticket can be issued. In the email, please include: Name the payment was made by Date of Payment Amount of Payment Address Email Phone number(s) Thanks in advance to all, Rick Rick Sanders President Deep Blue Solutions 610-892-5272 ricksanders at comcast.net From psr at coralcay.org Mon Mar 20 16:10:07 2006 From: psr at coralcay.org (Pete Raines) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:10:07 -0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to aforum/bulletin board? In-Reply-To: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00bf01c64c62$aafe3410$1946a8c0@cccpete> Hi Jeff, Great idea! Not only would it structure/compartmentalise the List more efficiently and effectively, I'm sure it would also actually encourage growth in terms of active membership seeking direct access to specific linkages and focused dialogue. It would certainly filter out from the general List the recent diatribe coming from of the likes of me! Pete _____________________________________________ Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD Founder & Chairman Coral Cay Conservation Ltd 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 email: psr at coralcay.org www.coralcay.org DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are stored for future reference. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org ______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Low Sent: 20 March 2006 19:19 To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to aforum/bulletin board? Hi everyone, I wonder if the list should be moved to a more structured forum / bulletin board? That way, people can pick and choose whihc topics are of interest to them, administrators can be assigned regardless of location etc. Any thoughts on this? Cheers, Jeff capman at augsburg.edu wrote: I am a biologist, but I can only marginally call myself a coral researcher (even though I have been working some with corals in recent years). Consequently, for the several years that I have been signed up on the Coral List I have mostly just read what others have had to say, and only occasionally have had things to contribute. In the past few years I have noticed a fairly extreme intolerance on the Coral List for discussions that might be seen as straying too far from the mission of the list, and a strong tendency for people to quickly move their conversations to private e-mails rather than continuing them on the public forum. To a certain extent this is good, though I often wish that more of the conversations that follow from the postings to the list (and answers to questions posted on the list) were done in the public forum so that more of us could benefit from the wealth of expertise represented by the members of the list. As far as messages clogging e-mail inboxes is concerned though, there is a fairly easy solution: Most e-mail programs (including ones like Eudora that you can download for free) allow you to filter messages. All of my Coral List e-mails get send automatically to a separate mailbox where they are easy to find, but not clogging my main Inbox. The other thing I do, once these e-mails are neatly tucked away is this: I simply don't read them all. I just read the ones that look like they are likely to be of interest to me (and once a thread has become boring or not relevant to me anymore, it is very easy to simply not read the further responses). This is pretty easy to do. If a person is in a remote location with very poor Internet access (where each additional bit of data that is received really is a burden), then I suppose my solution does not address the fundamental problem, and I can see where this would be a big reason for keeping postings to the list to a minimum. The drain on the moderator's time that would result from large numbers of posts would be another reason. However, my sense it that the bigger concern tends to be from people who simply don't want the distraction and bother of getting too many e-mails all the time. As I noted above, it seems that there are easy ways to not be bothered by Coral List e-mails without limiting conversations that many (though not all) on the list might find valuable. Bill >Dear James, > >Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. >Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative >and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: >"Likewise, mate"! > >As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List >upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of my >recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I >have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the >Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since >withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > >James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed to >the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was in >the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk >hostile or personally abusive. > >I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, and >co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding >Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my >opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an >arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - period!. >Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from >certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely >profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal >profession - enough said! > >Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US >scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born >in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the >Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can be >accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the >confines of the USA. > >Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be >spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding >Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and influential >and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all >this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; >their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent >re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) >important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a >one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the >Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully accomplish >way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. > >There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My >point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? >For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. > >All the best, > >Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > >_____________________________________________ >Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD >Founder & Chairman > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd >40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK >Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) >Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) >Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 >email: psr at coralcay.org >www.coralcay.org > > >DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended >only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential >and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed >to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender >immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this >message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no >liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay >Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot >accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent >transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are >stored for future reference. >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United >Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org >______________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- >From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. >Cervino >Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? > >Dear Pete, > > >I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will >kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as >"clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is >about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site >to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline >diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor >over time during this current time, and if this development project >takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer >is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see >that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can >be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an >educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > >Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the >corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this >open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your >"interesting data" from the Philippines! > >James > > > > > > > > >Dear all, > >I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my >emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" >etc etc,.... > >Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past >12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I >choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed >because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has >been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope >that my initial concerns are unfounded. > >Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those >wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know >very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to >another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up >the open channel that coral-list was established for. > >So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral >reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming >out of there, if you are interested. > >Cheers, > >Pete >-- >************************************************** >Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. >Marine Pathology >Department of Biological & Health Sciences >Pace University New York NYC >Phone: (917) 620-5287 >Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org >*************************************************** >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list --------------------------------- Meet your soulmate! Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From pilcher at tm.net.my Mon Mar 20 19:06:19 2006 From: pilcher at tm.net.my (Nicolas J. Pilcher) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:06:19 +0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Mangroves as stabilising plants In-Reply-To: <001e01c64c46$7cf0b7d0$c5594754@DRM> References: <441AA381.7020503@noaa.gov> <5.2.0.9.2.20060318125100.024a4640@pop.tm.net.my> <001a01c64a92$98e0ae60$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060321080058.02470da0@pop.tm.net.my> I know Selingan well, and have worked there on and off since 1995. I have seen ten years of sand movements, as I said earlier, half of the year one way, half of the year another. A slow net SW movement though, I would agree. If any of you have made it to Gulisaan, nearby, you'd see this in a much more noticeable way. I must agree with Duncan that mangroves are just not the solution. To start with, these are coral rubble cays with little or no fine sediment suitable as mangrove habitat. I am always of the belief that if there were going to be mangroves or corals or seagrass in any given place, they'd be there already. It's hard to see how introducing mangroves is going to work in the long run, given as nature decided long ago they were not the thing to have. While mangroves grow aplenty along the mainland coast not ten miles away, and could have had ample opportunity to colonise the island should they have been able to NATURALLY, they are not currently on the islands. It's worth keeping in mind. Nick At 05:48 PM 3/20/2006 +0000, Duncan MacRae wrote: >I'm not sure if either of you guys have been to Selingan recently, but >there seems to be some major sediment movements going on (that all look >relatively recent). The spit to the west of the island seems to be >growing, whilst the other beaches are being eroded significantly - >seemingly due to the off shore breakwater that already exists!. I realise >this is causing issues for the buildings on the island, but the turtles >are adapting fine. Sooo medalling here already seems to have caused problems. > >To put it bluntly I do not agree with the idea to establish a mangrove >stand on the island for two main reasons: > >1. there are no mangroves on the island currently because the situation is >NOT a suitable habitat - for numerous reasons >2. the islands sediments are dynamic and any attempt to stabilise them >will no doubt fail in the long term or lead to further problems in the >prevailing direction of littoral drift - with the possibility of mangroves >and their associated nutrients/sediments ending up on the reefs > >It would be a far better idea in the long run to remove the threatened >buildings (dilapidated dive store, staff quarters etc) and make them >temporary structures made out of local materials such as those on stilts >constructed for the Govt. fishing project near by. These can then be >moved/reconstructed as required. > >I hope more folk out there can add to this discussion. > >Best, > >Duncan > >Duncan R. MacRae > >Director >Coastal Zone Management (UK) >Integrated Conservation Solutions > >Blythe Cottage >22 Rosemundy >St. Agnes >Cornwall >TR5 0UD > >Tel: ++ (0)1872 552 219 >Mobile: ++(0)7958 230 076 >E-mail: solutions at cozm.co.uk >Website: www.cozm.co.uk > >This message contains confidential information and is intended only for >the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not >disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender >immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and >delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be >guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, >corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. >The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions >in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail >transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Barber" >To: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" ; >Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:48 PM >Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Sabah and reefballs > > >>Hi Nicolas, >> >>Why would you think I am using Reef Balls to save the day? We're looking at >>planting mangroves to help stabilize the beaches because Reef Balls offshore >>(8 years ago) have stopped the netting and increased the turtle nestings >>substaintially so they need as much space as possible. Come on folks, we >>are an NGO, not a marketing company. Sure, we use Reef Balls in a lot of >>our projects but only as one management tool of many. >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Todd Barber >>Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. >>3305 Edwards Court >>Greenville, NC 27858 >>reefball at reefball.com >> >>http://www.artificialreefs.org >>http://www.reefball.org >>http://www.reefball.com >> >>Direct: 252-353-9094 >>mobile: 941-720-7549 >>Fax 425-963-4119 >> >>Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball >>Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation >>Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: >>Available upon request >> >>Atlanta/Athens Office >>890 Hill Street >>Athens, GA 30606 USA >>770-752-0202 >>(Our headquarters...not where I work see above) >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" >>To: "Todd Barber" ; >>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:57 PM >>Subject: Sabah and reefballs >> >> >>>Interesting to hear that reefballs are going to save Sabah's reefs from >>>erosion. Ever seen what continued man--made structures end up looking like >>>many years after being deployed in areas where shifting sands due to >>>predominant current patters persists? The Maldives might be a good example >>>of the continued need to adjust and shift these. The turtle islands have >>>been subject to a two-phase sand shift with the monsoon season for many >>>more years than reef-balls, and turtles, which require a stable nesting >>>habitat in order to successfully propagate as a group of species. Sand >>>moves one way in the monsoon season, the other in the off season. And >>>while sand is ultimately shifting slowly in one direction, the islands are >>>obviously sufficiently stable for turtles, which nest on their natal >>>beaches but require a 30 year developmental period. That is, the islands >>>are stable enough for 30 years, yet reefballs are going to save the day? >>> >>> >>>>I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle >>>>nesting >>>>grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) islands, so >>>>I >>>>won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a comment try >>>>emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick out on a >>>>slow internet connection. >>> >>>I am writing from Sabah with a fast broadband connection. You'll end up in >>>hotels all of which have wireless broadband access for guests - yes, right >>>here in Borneo, of all places! I'd appreciate if you would not suggest >>>that this is a backward destination, you might find in many ways Sabah has >>>a lot more to offer. >>> >>>Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher >>>Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group >>> >>>Executive Director >>>Marine Research Foundation >>>136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 >>>Taman Khidmat >>>88450 Kota Kinabalu >>>Sabah >>>Malaysia >>> >>>Tel ++ 60 88 386136 >>>Fax ++ 60 88 387136 >>>Email: pilcher at tm.net.my >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Coral-List mailing list >>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group Executive Director Marine Research Foundation 136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 Taman Khidmat 88450 Kota Kinabalu Sabah Malaysia Tel ++ 60 88 386136 Fax ++ 60 88 387136 Email: pilcher at tm.net.my From jos at reefcheck.org Tue Mar 21 02:42:49 2006 From: jos at reefcheck.org (Jos Hill) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:42:49 +1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Reef Check Australia Volunteer Internship Position Message-ID: <2dffe0dd8f26e53c0fa60fbe23b108e7@reefcheck.org> Reef Check Australia Volunteer Internship Position Reef Check Australia is looking for some motivated and independent people to assist with the coordination of the 2006 and 2007 survey season for our Great Barrier Reef Project. If you want to gain experience in coral reef monitoring and team management this is an outstanding opportunity! Position 1: Project Officer. May-November 2006 Position 2: Project Officer. January-June 2007 Project Officer The Project Officer position will involve the planning, coordination and leadership of Reef Check research teams to survey up to 30 sites on the Great Barrier Reef and the Coral Sea. You will also be responsible for data management, analysis and the creation of a scientific report. Additional responsibilities subject to interest include helping to design a school education program, fundraising event coordination and grant writing. Reef Check Australia has 30 trained volunteers and works with 15 dive operators on the Great Barrier Reef Project. Good communication, motivation, delegation and social skills are therefore essential. Minimum Rescue Diver required, however an insured instructor is preferred. The position is entirely volunteer. However, we can provide applicants with some support in applying to other foundations/agencies for funds to support yourself during your stay in Australia. Required skills and qualifications: ? Tertiary qualification in marine biology ? Rescue diver with a minimum of 50 logged dives ? Current first aid, CPR and oxygen provider qualifications ? Proven experience with team leadership and coordination of projects ? Good communication skills, both verbal and written ? Ability to take initiative and work independently Desired skills and qualifications: ? Divemaster or Instructor with full insurance ? Experience with coral reef monitoring Why Work for Reef Check Australia? ? Part of the United Nation?s official International coral reef monitoring program ? Strong scientific reputation ? Work with likeminded people at the cutting edge of coral reef conservation Benefits to you include the opportunity to: ? Enhance your research skills ? Enhance team management skills ? Enhance project coordination skills ? Contribute to Australia?s long-term data set ? Take part in the most comprehensive Reef Check Training program in the world ? Work with like-minded professionals and volunteers at one of the world?s leading centres of tropical marine science ? Log up to 100 dives at some of Australia?s most spectacular coral reefs ? Potential for ongoing opportunities with Reef Check Applicants should send their resume to Jos Hill at jos at reefcheck.org Jos Hill Executive Director Reef Check Australia PO Box 404 Townsville QLD 4810 Email: jos at reefcheck.org General enquiries: support at reefcheckaustralia.org Tel: +61 (0)7 4724 3950 Mob: +61 (0) 415 446 646 www.reefcheckaustralia.org www.reefcheck.org From eborneman at uh.edu Mon Mar 20 15:34:12 2006 From: eborneman at uh.edu (Eric Borneman) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:34:12 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a forum/bulletin board? In-Reply-To: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5F26005B-B4FB-4C84-838C-70A1C6AC109B@uh.edu> It would be a far more effective and current format to use for all. Mail-lists are really passe, not withstanding the enormous and much appreciated efforts of Jim to have done the list for so many years. I think website maintenance would actually be less work, and division into sections, such as policy, restoration, biology, requests for researchers names, requests for information, new papers, resources, etc could all have their own pages and threads could be more easily followed.As mentioned, each page could have an admin which would further divide up the work load, and email boxes would not get filled. I suggested this some years ago without much response. _______________________________ Eric Borneman Department of Biology and Biochemistry University of Houston Science and Research Bldg. II 4800 Calhoun Rd. Houston, TX 77204-5001 ph: 713-743-2667 On Mar 20, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Jeffrey Low wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I wonder if the list should be moved to a more structured forum / > bulletin board? > > That way, people can pick and choose whihc topics are of interest > to them, administrators can be assigned regardless of location etc. > > Any thoughts on this? > > Cheers, Jeff > > capman at augsburg.edu wrote: > I am a biologist, but I can only marginally call myself a coral > researcher (even though I have been working some with corals in > recent years). Consequently, for the several years that I have been > signed up on the Coral List I have mostly just read what others have > had to say, and only occasionally have had things to contribute. > > In the past few years I have noticed a fairly extreme intolerance on > the Coral List for discussions that might be seen as straying too far > from the mission of the list, and a strong tendency for people to > quickly move their conversations to private e-mails rather than > continuing them on the public forum. To a certain extent this is > good, though I often wish that more of the conversations that follow > from the postings to the list (and answers to questions posted on the > list) were done in the public forum so that more of us could benefit > from the wealth of expertise represented by the members of the list. > > As far as messages clogging e-mail inboxes is concerned though, there > is a fairly easy solution: Most e-mail programs (including ones like > Eudora that you can download for free) allow you to filter messages. > All of my Coral List e-mails get send automatically to a separate > mailbox where they are easy to find, but not clogging my main Inbox. > The other thing I do, once these e-mails are neatly tucked away is > this: I simply don't read them all. I just read the ones that look > like they are likely to be of interest to me (and once a thread has > become boring or not relevant to me anymore, it is very easy to > simply not read the further responses). This is pretty easy to do. > > If a person is in a remote location with very poor Internet access > (where each additional bit of data that is received really is a > burden), then I suppose my solution does not address the fundamental > problem, and I can see where this would be a big reason for keeping > postings to the list to a minimum. The drain on the moderator's time > that would result from large numbers of posts would be another reason. > > However, my sense it that the bigger concern tends to be from people > who simply don't want the distraction and bother of getting too many > e-mails all the time. As I noted above, it seems that there are easy > ways to not be bothered by Coral List e-mails without limiting > conversations that many (though not all) on the list might find > valuable. > > Bill > > >> Dear James, >> >> Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of >> responses. >> Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly >> informative >> and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: >> "Likewise, mate"! >> >> As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of >> the List >> upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed >> because of my >> recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue >> that I >> have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues >> in the >> Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since >> withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. >> >> James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as >> opposed to >> the others I have done so directly and in private) because your >> reply was in >> the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly >> knee-jerk >> hostile or personally abusive. >> >> I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it >> may be, and >> co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) >> regarding >> Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. >> In my >> opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal >> arena; an >> arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - >> period!. >> Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) >> from >> certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become >> extremely >> profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal >> profession - enough said! >> >> Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest >> to US >> scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should >> be born >> in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the >> Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far >> more can be >> accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel >> beyond the >> confines of the USA. >> >> Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort >> appears to be >> spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs >> surrounding >> Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and >> influential >> and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say >> about all >> this or what the local community have to say, I have not been >> party to; >> their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given >> my recent >> re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if >> not more) >> important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just >> begging a >> one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction >> of the >> Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully >> accomplish >> way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the >> Bahamas. >> >> There really is some "interesting data" coming from the >> Philippines. My >> point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen >> to it? >> For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes >> of CCC. >> >> All the best, >> >> Pete >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD >> Founder & Chairman >> >> Coral Cay Conservation Ltd >> 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK >> Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) >> Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) >> Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 >> email: psr at coralcay.org >> www.coralcay.org >> >> >> DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is >> intended >> only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain >> confidential >> and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or >> disclosed >> to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender >> immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this >> message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd >> and no >> liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. >> Coral Cay >> Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses >> and cannot >> accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent >> transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring >> and are >> stored for future reference. >> Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 >> 3ND, United >> Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org >> ______________________________________________ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. >> Cervino >> Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 >> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >> Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog >> them? >> >> Dear Pete, >> >> >> I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will >> kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as >> "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is >> about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site >> to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline >> diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor >> over time during this current time, and if this development project >> takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer >> is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see >> that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can >> be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an >> educational tool so close to US coastal cities. >> >> Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the >> corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this >> open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your >> "interesting data" from the Philippines! >> >> James >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done >> so: my >> emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana >> Cay Debate" >> etc etc,.... >> >> Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just >> the past >> 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely >> focussed (I >> choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just >> skewed >> because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that >> coral-list has >> been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in >> the hope >> that my initial concerns are unfounded. >> >> Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time >> for those >> wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all >> now know >> very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move >> off to >> another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and >> not clog-up >> the open channel that coral-list was established for. >> >> So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status >> of coral >> reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting >> data coming >> out of there, if you are interested. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Pete >> -- >> ************************************************** >> Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. >> Marine Pathology >> Department of Biological & Health Sciences >> Pace University New York NYC >> Phone: (917) 620-5287 >> Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org >> *************************************************** >> _______________________________________________ >> Coral-List mailing list >> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Coral-List mailing list >> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > --------------------------------- > Meet your soulmate! > Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From capman at augsburg.edu Mon Mar 20 16:54:19 2006 From: capman at augsburg.edu (capman at augsburg.edu) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:54:19 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a forum/bulletin board? In-Reply-To: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't know the logistics of doing this, but I think this sounds like an excellent idea. This would surely facilitate and foster more discussion (without intruding into people's e-mail Inboxes), and it seems this could only be a good thing. Discussions could be developed further in a public venue where we could all benefit from them, and answers to questions could be posted for all to see (currently, the only person who usually sees the responses to questions that are asked is the person who asked the question). There could even be sub-forums for special topics....e.g. bleaching events, conservation crises, research methodology, or whatever seemed appropriate. Such discussion forums can function very well if moderated properly. If a forum like this was successful, it would probably have a bit more traffic than the current Coral List. Hence the job of the moderator might be bigger. However, it seems that such forums rarely have just one moderator, and, as Jeff mentions, the moderators can be located anywhere. One thing I would suggest though, if the coral list were to go this route, is to be sure that the forum/bulletin board interface be somewhat minimalist and simple...no unnecessary graphics, for example. Otherwise, it might be difficult for folks in remote locations with slow Internet access to view the forum web pages. Bill >Hi everyone, > > I wonder if the list should be moved to a more structured forum / >bulletin board? > > That way, people can pick and choose whihc topics are of interest >to them, administrators can be assigned regardless of location etc. > > Any thoughts on this? > > Cheers, Jeff > > From J.Pandolfi at cms.uq.edu.au Mon Mar 20 19:17:18 2006 From: J.Pandolfi at cms.uq.edu.au (John Pandolfi) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:17:18 +1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Post-doc available - crustose coralline algae Message-ID: <8A715E60894B5D43A3858A909C5D1895DF8FE4@marine.marine.uq.edu.au> Centre for Marine Studies - University of Queensland, Brisbane, Australia Postdoctoral Research Fellow (Marine Palaeoecology Lab) * The position will conduct research on the effects of climate change on the ecology of living and fossil coralline algae of Western Australia. The position will undertake research within The Centre for Marine Studies at the University of Queensland. In the role of Postdoctoral Fellow you with work within the Marine Palaeoecology Lab at the Centre for Marine Studies. The Centre for Marine Studies (CMS) co-ordinates research and teaching on the ocean, coast, estuaries and reefs across Queensland for the University. The position reports to Associate Professor John M. Pandolfi, in the Marine Palaeoecology Laboratory at the Centre for Marine Studies. The Project The putative effects of global warming on living coral reefs are hotly debated, but no long-term modern data are available to gauge ecosystem response. Using a comparative approach for species distributions and community composition between living and adjacent fossil coral reefs found along the Western Australian coastline, you will determine the degree to which climatically-induced latitudinal range shifts in crustose coralline algal species influences the assembly and maintenance of coral reef communities. The research will use ecological data to broaden our ability to predict the magnitude and impact of range shifts on coral reef ecosystems during ongoing global warming. The research is focussed on comparative ecological and biogeographic study of ancient coral reef communities from multiple reef-building episodes around the Last Interglacial (Pleistocene, Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 5e, approximately 118 -135 ka - thousand years ago), preserved along a latitudinal gradient exposed on the coast of Western Australia, and their Recent (living) adjacent counterparts in WA. Sea surface temperatures were at least 2-3oC higher during MIS 5e than the modern, so a 'natural experiment' allows the investigation of the regional effects of species range movements on the taxonomic composition and diversity of reef taxa. The main aims of the work are to: * Establish the degree of correlation between latitude and the occurrence of crustose coralline algae (CCA) species from living and warmer Pleistocene reefs. * Determine the frequency, direction and magnitude of latitudinal range shifts between Pleistocene and Recent CCA communities. * Investigate the degree to which ancient species range expansion and contraction, resulting from global climate change, influenced modern CCA community composition and diversity, and thus the ability of reefs to build and thrive at Ningaloo and throughout their range in WA. Output of the project will not only involve a rigorous ecological study with implications for reef building during future global climate change, but it will also document the distribution and abundance of CCA species along the WA coastline. Given the critical role played by CCA in the facilitation of coral recruitment, such studies are extremely important for the conservation of biodiversity of WA reefs. The Applicant You should possess a PhD in the palaeoecology and/or ecology or systematics of coralline algae, marine palaeobiology, or marine ecology. The successful candidate will have a strong track record of research and scholarship in marine ecology or palaeoecology, as demonstrated by published research in peer-reviewed journals This is a fixed term (2 year), full-time appointment as a UQ Postdoctoral Research Fellow, level A. The remuneration package will be in the range of $55,544 to $59,623 per annum base salary plus employer superannuation contributions of 9%. APPLICATION Applications must consist of the following: 1. Covering Letter. The covering letter should include the vacancy reference number, your contact address, e-mail address, and telephone number. It is an opportunity in not more than one page to introduce yourself and highlight the key reasons you should be considered for the role. 2. Resume or Curriculum Vitae. A resume is a brief history of your employment and experience that covers at least the following areas: * Educational qualifications and professional affiliations that detail the full title of the qualification, the year awarded and the title of the institution attended; and * Employment history in chronological order, starting with current position and specifying dates of employment, title of each position, name of employer, main duties or accountabilities and achievements. 3. 3 Letters of Recommendation * The purpose of referee checks is to obtain, in confidence, factual information about your past work history, as well as opinions regarding the quality of your work, behaviour in the work place and suitability for the position. A referee must be able to comment on your work experience, skills and performance with respect to the selection criteria. * The letters of three referees, including if possible a senior person (preferably your supervisor or the head of your organisational unit) closely associated with your current work, are due at the time of application. 4. Selection Criteria. A statement addressing how each of the selection criteria have been met is required to assist the Selection Committee to determine whether you have the relevant qualifications, knowledge/skills, experience and personal qualities. An academic curriculum vitae should include research fields and current interests, publications (full list as attachment with three most significant marked with an asterisk), research grants awarded and, if applicable, details of teaching evaluation. Applications and Referee reports are to be sent to: Finance and HR Manager Centre for Marine Studies The University of Queensland Brisbane QLD 4072 Or email f.meek at cms.uq.edu.au Please note: * Applications should be typed; * Do not send applications that are bound or enclosed in plastic or manilla folders; * Simply staple the application at the top left hand corner; and * Retain a copy for your reference because the University does not return copies to applicants. Obtain the position description and selection criteria online (http://www.uq.edu.au/jobs/2006documents/bacs/3013714.doc ) or contact Ms Fiona Meek (07) 3365 3462 or f.meek at cms.uq.edu.au . Telephone or e-mail Associate Professor John M. Pandolfi, (07) 3365 3050, j.pandolfi at uq.edu.au to discuss the role. Send applications to the Finance and HR Manager, Centre for Marine Studies at the address below, or email f.meek at cms.uq.edu.au Closing date for applications: 16 April 2006 Reference Number: 3013714 ************************************* John M. Pandolfi Centre for Marine Studies and Department of Earth Sciences University of Queensland Brisbane, Queensland 4072 AUSTRALIA Ph: + 61 7 3365 3050 FAX: + 61 7 3365 4755 e-mail: j.pandolfi at uq.edu.au ************************************* From coralfarmguam at yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 19:37:54 2006 From: coralfarmguam at yahoo.com (Lee Goldman) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:37:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Turtle nestings Message-ID: <20060321003754.62961.qmail@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Todd, I'm afraid i'm a bit confused by your statement about the reef balls in Sabah. You established a bunch of reef balls 8 years ago and that has stopped the netting(?) and substantially increased the amount of turlte nestings in the area? Can you please elaborate on this and included your evidence? Also, when were these islands made off limits to humans? Perhaps, assuming that 8 years is enough time to see an increase in turtle nesting, there is a stronger correlation to the increase in turtle nestings due to lack of human interference? Thanks, Lee Goldman Coralfarmguam PO Box 6682 Tamuning, Guam 671.646.6744 Coralfarmgaum at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From albert at ecology.su.se Tue Mar 21 06:03:45 2006 From: albert at ecology.su.se (albert) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:03:45 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a forum/bulletin board? In-Reply-To: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060320191856.66678.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I second Jeffs suggestion of moving the list to a more structured forum. Apart from allowing individual members to browse through subjects as they see fit, the administrative burden can be shared by a far larger admin/moderator team. It also allows for much simpler search capabiliites of past discussion threads and specific references that have been posted on the list. /Albert Norstr?m Dept. Systems Ecology Natural Resource Management Stockholm University Sweden -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Low To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:18:55 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a forum/bulletin board? > Hi everyone, > > I wonder if the list should be moved to a more structured forum / > bulletin board? > > That way, people can pick and choose whihc topics are of interest to > them, administrators can be assigned regardless of location etc. > > Any thoughts on this? > > Cheers, Jeff > > capman at augsburg.edu wrote: > I am a biologist, but I can only marginally call myself a coral > researcher (even though I have been working some with corals in > recent years). Consequently, for the several years that I have been > signed up on the Coral List I have mostly just read what others have > had to say, and only occasionally have had things to contribute. > > In the past few years I have noticed a fairly extreme intolerance on > the Coral List for discussions that might be seen as straying too far > from the mission of the list, and a strong tendency for people to > quickly move their conversations to private e-mails rather than > continuing them on the public forum. To a certain extent this is > good, though I often wish that more of the conversations that follow > from the postings to the list (and answers to questions posted on the > list) were done in the public forum so that more of us could benefit > from the wealth of expertise represented by the members of the list. > > As far as messages clogging e-mail inboxes is concerned though, there > is a fairly easy solution: Most e-mail programs (including ones like > Eudora that you can download for free) allow you to filter messages. > All of my Coral List e-mails get send automatically to a separate > mailbox where they are easy to find, but not clogging my main Inbox. > The other thing I do, once these e-mails are neatly tucked away is > this: I simply don't read them all. I just read the ones that look > like they are likely to be of interest to me (and once a thread has > become boring or not relevant to me anymore, it is very easy to > simply not read the further responses). This is pretty easy to do. > > If a person is in a remote location with very poor Internet access > (where each additional bit of data that is received really is a > burden), then I suppose my solution does not address the fundamental > problem, and I can see where this would be a big reason for keeping > postings to the list to a minimum. The drain on the moderator's time > that would result from large numbers of posts would be another reason. > > However, my sense it that the bigger concern tends to be from people > who simply don't want the distraction and bother of getting too many > e-mails all the time. As I noted above, it seems that there are easy > ways to not be bothered by Coral List e-mails without limiting > conversations that many (though not all) on the list might find > valuable. > > Bill > > > >Dear James, > > > >Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. > >Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly > informative > >and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: > >"Likewise, mate"! > > > >As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the > List > >upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because > of my > >recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue > that I > >have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in > the > >Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since > >withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > > > >James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as > opposed to > >the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply > was in > >the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly > knee-jerk > >hostile or personally abusive. > > > >I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may > be, and > >co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) > regarding > >Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In > my > >opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal > arena; an > >arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - > period!. > >Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from > >certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become > extremely > >profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal > >profession - enough said! > > > >Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to > US > >scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be > born > >in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the > >Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more > can be > >accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond > the > >confines of the USA. > > > >Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to > be > >spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs > surrounding > >Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and > influential > >and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about > all > >this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party > to; > >their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my > recent > >re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not > more) > >important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging > a > >one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of > the > >Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully > accomplish > >way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. > > > >There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. > My > >point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to > it? > >For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of > CCC. > > > >All the best, > > > >Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_____________________________________________ > >Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD > >Founder & Chairman > > > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd > >40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK > >Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) > >Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) > >Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 > >email: psr at coralcay.org > >www.coralcay.org > > > > > >DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is > intended > >only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain > confidential > >and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or > disclosed > >to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender > >immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this > >message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no > >liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral > Cay > >Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and > cannot > >accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent > >transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and > are > >stored for future reference. > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, > United > >Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org > >______________________________________________ > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. > >Cervino > >Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 > >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog > them? > > > >Dear Pete, > > > > > >I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will > >kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as > >"clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is > >about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site > >to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline > >diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor > >over time during this current time, and if this development project > >takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer > >is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see > >that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can > >be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an > >educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > > > >Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the > >corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this > >open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your > >"interesting data" from the Philippines! > > > >James > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear all, > > > >I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: > my > >emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay > Debate" > >etc etc,.... > > > >Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the > past > >12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely > focussed (I > >choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed > >because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that > coral-list has > >been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the > hope > >that my initial concerns are unfounded. > > > >Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for > those > >wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now > know > >very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off > to > >another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not > clog-up > >the open channel that coral-list was established for. > > > >So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of > coral > >reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data > coming > >out of there, if you are interested. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Pete > >-- > >************************************************** > >Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. > >Marine Pathology > >Department of Biological & Health Sciences > >Pace University New York NYC > >Phone: (917) 620-5287 > >Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org > >*************************************************** > >_______________________________________________ > >Coral-List mailing list > >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Coral-List mailing list > >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > --------------------------------- > Meet your soulmate! > Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From falter at hawaii.edu Mon Mar 20 15:59:23 2006 From: falter at hawaii.edu (James Leon Falter) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:59:23 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, I second the notion of moving the coral list into a forum/discussion board format. I think it could be done at whatever pace you would feel comfotable with. I work with another federally funded project promoting the dissemination of information on coastal sensor technology called the Alliance for Coastal Technology. You can view an example of the forum pages at: http://www.act-us.info/forum/ Something like that would provide a bit more organization to the stream of discussions. I think you're doing a great job already. This is merely a suggestion. -jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jim Falter Assistant Researcher Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology tel: (808)-236-7416 fax: (808)-236-7443 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Date: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:31 am Subject: Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 40 To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Mangroves as stabilising plants (Duncan MacRae) > 2. Program Specialist Position IM Systems Group > (Jill.Meyer at noaa.gov) 3. Re: The State of the List (Lore Ayoub) > 4. Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a forum/bulletin > board? (Jeffrey Low) > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:48:24 -0000 > From: "Duncan MacRae" > Subject: [Coral-List] Mangroves as stabilising plants > To: "Todd Barber" , "Nicolas J. Pilcher" > , > Message-ID: <001e01c64c46$7cf0b7d0$c5594754 at DRM> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I'm not sure if either of you guys have been to Selingan recently, > but there > seems to be some major sediment movements going on (that all look > relatively > recent). The spit to the west of the island seems to be growing, > whilst the > other beaches are being eroded significantly - seemingly due to the > off > shore breakwater that already exists!. I realise this is causing > issues for > the buildings on the island, but the turtles are adapting fine. > Sooo > medalling here already seems to have caused problems. > > To put it bluntly I do not agree with the idea to establish a > mangrove stand > on the island for two main reasons: > > 1. there are no mangroves on the island currently because the > situation is > NOT a suitable habitat - for numerous reasons > 2. the islands sediments are dynamic and any attempt to stabilise > them will > no doubt fail in the long term or lead to further problems in the > prevailing > direction of littoral drift - with the possibility of mangroves and > their > associated nutrients/sediments ending up on the reefs > > It would be a far better idea in the long run to remove the > threatened > buildings (dilapidated dive store, staff quarters etc) and make > them > temporary structures made out of local materials such as those on > stilts > constructed for the Govt. fishing project near by. These can then > be > moved/reconstructed as required. > > I hope more folk out there can add to this discussion. > > Best, > > Duncan > > Duncan R. MacRae > > Director > Coastal Zone Management (UK) > Integrated Conservation Solutions > > Blythe Cottage > 22 Rosemundy > St. Agnes > Cornwall > TR5 0UD > > Tel: ++ (0)1872 552 219 > Mobile: ++(0)7958 230 076 > E-mail: solutions at cozm.co.uk > Website: www.cozm.co.uk > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the > individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the > sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake > and delete > this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be > guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, > corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The > sender > therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in > the > contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail > transmission. If > verification is required please request a hard-copy version > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Todd Barber" > To: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" ; > > Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 1:48 PM > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Sabah and reefballs > > > > Hi Nicolas, > > > > Why would you think I am using Reef Balls to save the day? We're > looking > > at > > planting mangroves to help stabilize the beaches because Reef > Balls > > offshore > > (8 years ago) have stopped the netting and increased the turtle > nestings> substaintially so they need as much space as possible. > Come on folks, we > > are an NGO, not a marketing company. Sure, we use Reef Balls in > a lot of > > our projects but only as one management tool of many. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Todd Barber > > Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. > > 3305 Edwards Court > > Greenville, NC 27858 > > reefball at reefball.com > > > > http://www.artificialreefs.org > > http://www.reefball.org > > http://www.reefball.com > > > > Direct: 252-353-9094 > > mobile: 941-720-7549 > > Fax 425-963-4119 > > > > Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball > > Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation > > Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: > > Available upon request > > > > Atlanta/Athens Office > > 890 Hill Street > > Athens, GA 30606 USA > > 770-752-0202 > > (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nicolas J. Pilcher" > > To: "Todd Barber" ; > > > > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:57 PM > > Subject: Sabah and reefballs > > > > > >> Interesting to hear that reefballs are going to save Sabah's > reefs from > >> erosion. Ever seen what continued man--made structures end up > looking > >> like > >> many years after being deployed in areas where shifting sands > due to > >> predominant current patters persists? The Maldives might be a > good > >> example > >> of the continued need to adjust and shift these. The turtle > islands have > >> been subject to a two-phase sand shift with the monsoon season > for many > >> more years than reef-balls, and turtles, which require a stable > nesting>> habitat in order to successfully propagate as a group of > species. Sand > >> moves one way in the monsoon season, the other in the off > season. And > >> while sand is ultimately shifting slowly in one direction, the > islands > >> are > >> obviously sufficiently stable for turtles, which nest on their > natal>> beaches but require a 30 year developmental period. That > is, the islands > >> are stable enough for 30 years, yet reefballs are going to save > the day? > >> > >> > >>>I am off to the Turtle Islands in Sabah tomorrow to save the turtle > >>>nesting > >>>grounds from erosion for those totally protected (from humans) > islands, > >>>so > >>>I > >>>won't be able to respond for the next week. So if you have a > comment try > >>>emailing it to me directly with a catchy subject that I can pick > out on a > >>>slow internet connection. > >> > >> I am writing from Sabah with a fast broadband connection. You'll > end up > >> in > >> hotels all of which have wireless broadband access for guests - > yes, > >> right > >> here in Borneo, of all places! I'd appreciate if you would not > suggest>> that this is a backward destination, you might find in > many ways Sabah > >> has > >> a lot more to offer. > >> > >> Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher > >> Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group > >> > >> Executive Director > >> Marine Research Foundation > >> 136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 > >> Taman Khidmat > >> 88450 Kota Kinabalu > >> Sabah > >> Malaysia > >> > >> Tel ++ 60 88 386136 > >> Fax ++ 60 88 387136 > >> Email: pilcher at tm.net.my > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:05:04 -0500 > From: Jill.Meyer at noaa.gov > Subject: [Coral-List] Program Specialist Position IM Systems Group > To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: <7095971630.7163070959 at noaa.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > The following position is now available. Please follow the > application information below if you are interested. > > Regards, > > Jill Meyer > > > Position: Coral Program Specialist > > Overview: > I.M. Systems Group (www.imsg.com), a contractor to the National > Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Silver Spring, MD, seeks > an > individual to serve as a Coral Program Specialist. This individual > will work with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric > Administration?s > (NOAA?s) Coral Reef Conservation Program (CRCP- > http://www.coralreef.noaa.gov/) in the areas of program > coordination, > program development, strategic planning, partnership building, and > information management. > > NOAA?s Coral Reef Conservation Program supports effective > management > and sound science to preserve, sustain and restore valuable coral > reef > ecosystems. This position is with the program?s headquarters? > coordination team. > > Core Responsibilities: > ? Support program strategic planning efforts including > identification of priorities, development of performance measures, > and > implementation of an external program review process. > > ? Manage information related to the internal NOAA funding > process. This includes managing the CRCP database, maintaining > spreadsheets generated from the database, documenting funding > decisions, and creating funding summary reports. > > ? Participate in internal NOAA proposal and project evaluations > > ? Coordinate the Coral Reef Information System > (www.coris.noaa.gov) editorial board and serve as coral program > liaison to the CORIS project team. > > ? Serve as backup support on content and updates to NOAA?s coral > newsletters and web-sites. > > Qualifications: > > Required Qualifications: > ? Bachelors degree in a relevant discipline such as marine > science, biology, marine policy, environmental management, or > policy > ? Strong verbal and writing skills > ? Strong organization skills and attention to detail > ? Self motivated energetic strategic thinker > ? Ability to work well individually and cooperatively with a > range of individuals > ? Ability to work on several projects simultaneously and to > shift priorities as needed. > ? Willingness to learn new skills > ? Technical proficiency with Microsoft Excel and Microsoft Word. > Desired: > ? Two ?three years of program or project planning preferred > ? Experience developing performance measures > ? Familiarity with coral reef conservation and management issues > ? Proficient in database organization and web-site management > > > The vacancy announcement is open until filled. The target start > date > is April 24. The salary for this position is the mid $40,000s > commensurate with experience. Qualified candidates may apply by > emailing a cover letter, resume, and 3 references (MS Word format > strongly preferred) to the following email: jobs at imsg.com and > meyerj at imsg.com with the subject heading: ORR06-001 Coral Program > Specialist. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > Today's Topics: > > 1. Reef Regeneration (Amy Ridgeway) > 2. 3rd announcement (Bonaire National Marine Park) > 3. Cold-water coral website launched (Murray Roberts) > 4. Re: Reef Regeneration (Tom Williams) > 5. Re: Coral List Submission (Tom Williams) > 6. Coral Rehabilitation (reefball at reefball.com) > 7. short term coral growth (Tennille Irvine) > -------------- next part -------------- > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:04:45 -0500 (EST) > From: "Lore Ayoub" > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The State of the List > To: "Jonathan Shrives" > Cc: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: > <50712.71.99.111.210.1142881485.squirrel at mailbox3.acomp.usf.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Jon, thank you for your well-put defense of the current discussion - > this > is a forum, after all. And our research is ineffectual without > influenceand awareness in wider circles ie the public. > > Lore > > > Dear Jim, > > > > In response to the last few threads about Guana Cay > > (Oh no I hear you cry - not MORE Guana Cay - but just > > bare with me a minute!), I feel that it's an important > > part of the list to have such debates. So what if its > > been the focus of a week's worth of e-mails? I'm > > currently researching corals as part of my PhD, and > > I've seen some big names make valuable contributions > > on this list. There have been references bounded > > around that I have dug out, and found to be really > > useful in furthering my research. As a junior > > researcher, starting my career, I have found the list > > to be an invaluable tool. I have spent the last year > > trawling through publisher's websites, Web of > > Knowledge, Google Scholar, and other such online > > journal search engines, and yet the list has always > > provided me with some of the best references to hunt > > out. > > > > So I guess what I'm trying to say is, big deal! Viva > > the List! I believe it's in the nature of us all to > > get passionate about what we believe in - and thus get > > focused on certain issues - otherwise we wouldn't be > > coral scientists ( it isn't like we do it for the > > money! ). I believe that the list will go on long > > after the Guana Cay debate, and still contribute > > massively to the causes of research and conservation. > > I don't think there are many researchers who don't > > know that every reef out there is under threat from > > localised and global anthropogenic pollution. However > > I think it is important to see how Guana Cay goes. I > > think it's important to see how scientists and > > conservationists fare up against powerful, > > money-centric developers and governments. I think it's > > a mini-case study on the backdoor of Florida, that > > will one day, I'm afraid, be a problem faced by any > > researcher in any part of the world. Maybe we should > > all re-train and become environmental lawyers?! > > > > In summary, I don't think contributors to the list > > should feel bullied or guilt-tripped into > > concentrating on other issues (certainly not by the > > CEO's of ecotourism companies!). The List is what it > > is, and if someone isn't happy with it - then > > unsubscribe! - that?s their problem not ours. > > > > Thanks once again for all your efforts Jim and > > Listers. Life would be a lot more difficult without > > the list! > > > > Cheers > > > > Jon Shrives > > > > > > Jonathan Shrives > > Tropical Ecology Research Group > > University of Oxford > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:18:55 +0800 (CST) > From: Jeffrey Low > Subject: [Coral-List] Unclog email account by moving coal-list to a > forum/bulletin board? > To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Message-ID: <20060320191856.66678.qmail at web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi everyone, > > I wonder if the list should be moved to a more structured forum / > bulletin board? > > That way, people can pick and choose whihc topics are of interest > to them, administrators can be assigned regardless of location etc. > > Any thoughts on this? > > Cheers, Jeff > > capman at augsburg.edu wrote: > I am a biologist, but I can only marginally call myself a coral > researcher (even though I have been working some with corals in > recent years). Consequently, for the several years that I have been > signed up on the Coral List I have mostly just read what others > have > had to say, and only occasionally have had things to contribute. > > In the past few years I have noticed a fairly extreme intolerance > on > the Coral List for discussions that might be seen as straying too > far > from the mission of the list, and a strong tendency for people to > quickly move their conversations to private e-mails rather than > continuing them on the public forum. To a certain extent this is > good, though I often wish that more of the conversations that > follow > from the postings to the list (and answers to questions posted on > the > list) were done in the public forum so that more of us could > benefit > from the wealth of expertise represented by the members of the list. > > As far as messages clogging e-mail inboxes is concerned though, > there > is a fairly easy solution: Most e-mail programs (including ones > like > Eudora that you can download for free) allow you to filter > messages. > All of my Coral List e-mails get send automatically to a separate > mailbox where they are easy to find, but not clogging my main > Inbox. > The other thing I do, once these e-mails are neatly tucked away is > this: I simply don't read them all. I just read the ones that look > like they are likely to be of interest to me (and once a thread has > become boring or not relevant to me anymore, it is very easy to > simply not read the further responses). This is pretty easy to do. > > If a person is in a remote location with very poor Internet access > (where each additional bit of data that is received really is a > burden), then I suppose my solution does not address the > fundamental > problem, and I can see where this would be a big reason for keeping > postings to the list to a minimum. The drain on the moderator's > time > that would result from large numbers of posts would be another reason. > > However, my sense it that the bigger concern tends to be from > people > who simply don't want the distraction and bother of getting too > many > e-mails all the time. As I noted above, it seems that there are > easy > ways to not be bothered by Coral List e-mails without limiting > conversations that many (though not all) on the list might find > valuable. > > Bill > > > >Dear James, > > > >Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of > responses.>Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, > highly informative > >and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: > >"Likewise, mate"! > > > >As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of > the List > >upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed > because of my > >recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue > that I > >have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues > in the > >Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since > >withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > > > >James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as > opposed to > >the others I have done so directly and in private) because your > reply was in > >the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly > knee-jerk > >hostile or personally abusive. > > > >I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it > may be, and > >co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) > regarding>Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is > concerned. In my > >opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal > arena; an > >arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - > period!.>Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re- > joined) from > >certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become > extremely>profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent > within the legal > >profession - enough said! > > > >Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest > to US > >scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should > be born > >in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the > >Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far > more can be > >accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel > beyond the > >confines of the USA. > > > >Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort > appears to be > >spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs > surrounding>Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the > Government and influential > >and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say > about all > >this or what the local community have to say, I have not been > party to; > >their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given > my recent > >re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if > not more) > >important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just > begging a > >one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction > of the > >Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully > accomplish>way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places > like the Bahamas. > > > >There really is some "interesting data" coming from the > Philippines. My > >point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen > to it? > >For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes > of CCC. > > > >All the best, > > > >Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_____________________________________________ > >Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD > >Founder & Chairman > > > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd > >40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK > >Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) > >Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) > >Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 > >email: psr at coralcay.org > >www.coralcay.org > > > > > >DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is > intended>only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may > contain confidential > >and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or > disclosed>to any third party. If received in error, please inform > the sender > >immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this > >message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd > and no > >liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. > Coral Cay > >Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses > and cannot > >accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent > >transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring > and are > >stored for future reference. > >Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 > 3ND, United > >Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org > >______________________________________________ > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. > >Cervino > >Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 > >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog > them?> > >Dear Pete, > > > > > >I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will > >kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as > >"clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is > >about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site > >to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline > >diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor > >over time during this current time, and if this development project > >takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer > >is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see > >that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can > >be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an > >educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > > > >Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the > >corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this > >open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your > >"interesting data" from the Philippines! > > > >James > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear all, > > > >I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done > so: my > >emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana > Cay Debate" > >etc etc,.... > > > >Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just > the past > >12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely > focussed (I > >choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just > skewed>because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say > that coral-list has > >been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in > the hope > >that my initial concerns are unfounded. > > > >Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time > for those > >wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all > now know > >very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move > off to > >another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and > not clog-up > >the open channel that coral-list was established for. > > > >So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status > of coral > >reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting > data coming > >out of there, if you are interested. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Pete > >-- > >************************************************** > >Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. > >Marine Pathology > >Department of Biological & Health Sciences > >Pace University New York NYC > >Phone: (917) 620-5287 > >Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org > >*************************************************** > >_______________________________________________ > >Coral-List mailing list > >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Coral-List mailing list > >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > --------------------------------- > Meet your soulmate! > Yahoo! Asia presents Meetic - where millions of singles gather > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 33, Issue 40 > ****************************************** > From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Tue Mar 21 07:36:23 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:36:23 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis Message-ID: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> Hey, Team! Thank you all for your suggestions concerning re-tooling Coral-List. Let me just point out some considerations we should take into account: * Our personnel resources right now are of necessity focused on tasks that we have been specifically funded for (Coral-List and our other lists have not been specifically funded for years), and we can't really afford the time (right now) to totally reconfigure Coral-List (however, see closing statement). * There already are several other very good coral-related multiple-forum Web resources out there. * This is a U.S. Government resource, so we would have to moderate the content; as you know, there are certain things we can't allow, which might creep into a Web-based free comment forum: commercialism, lobbying Congress, profanity, flaming, anti-racist or sexist remarks, etc. This actually helps to maintain decorum in an age where email seems to have encouraged a new kind of discourse, namely, the occasional tendency to be nasty to someone you wouldn't be nasty to in their presence. * What some people consider clogging, others consider important information: an important piece of information might be announced that you would have been interested in, but you missed it because it was set up in a forum area where you rarely (if ever) visit. For instance, what if your personal radar never would have picked up Guana Cay before, but now since it was sort of shoved down your throat in Coral-List, NOW you're interested and you in fact contributed some of your hard-earned moolah to the cause, or even felt compelled to fly over there and join in the battle! * Breaking up this community of ~3,500 members into different groups sort of kills the whole idea (and advantages) of a community! The current format is sort of like one big ongoing International Coral Reef Symposium, where anybody can have the floor to say what they want (within civil limits, of course). You, the student, for instance, has equal voice with some of the Big Legends of coral science. Take for instance a real ICRS (or other) symposium where everybody is fighting to be heard: if you're like me and not inclined to try to out-shout the lout next to you, who always seems to get heard because of his shouting voice, even when you consider it crud [can you say that on Coral-List?], on Coral-List you can still have volume equal to the ignorant loud-mouth next to you. However, it is good to keep the comments coming, and I'm not saying we won't re-tool in the future. In fact, we're looking into a way for subscribers to post photographs, after all. We want to continue to evolve with technology, and considering the excellent group of computer specialists we have here, I'm confident we can do right by you. However, we are jammed with some important tasks, and we may not always be on the cutting edge of list or forum technology, so for now I think we're going to stick with the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." At least for now. Remember, if you don't like the subject that is clogging your email inbox, you can just delete it, or you can apply a filter to remove or re-categorize it. Now, where was I... Cheers, Jim From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Mar 21 07:52:58 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:52:58 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis In-Reply-To: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> Message-ID: Thank you, Jim. I looked in vain through the other relevant postings for that key phrase: "And what is more, I volunteer to take over the new administrating tasks, and vow to maintain the same high standards set by Jim and his staff." Although there were several suggestions, there was only ONE complaint. I don't think it's broken-but if YOU out there think it is, then by all means volunteer to fix it. Keep your stick on the ice. Mike From dwlehman at ncsu.edu Tue Mar 21 08:41:56 2006 From: dwlehman at ncsu.edu (D. Wade Lehmann) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:41:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coral-List] Seeking reef toxicology positions Message-ID: <2524.152.1.128.25.1142948516.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> Dear Coral Listers, Since the debate over allowing/disallowing searchees to post seems to have settled on the allow side of the equation for now, I thought I?d get my shameless advertisement out. I have recently received my PhD in Environmental Toxicology and am searching for employment. I want to break more into the field of coral reef research, specifically as it relates to the impact of toxics on corals (individuals or communities). And I need your help to find individuals doing this type of research and work. My background training includes biomarker analysis, analytical methods (GC, HPLC), flow cytometry, and coral propagation among other skills. I am PADI advanced open water certified. My specific interests lie in the determination of toxic concentrations of anthropogenic contaminants, detection of toxins, genetic stress responses of corals, detection of human impact (ie- caffeine/estradiol), and fate/transport of chemicals into reef environments. If you know of any post-doc or full time positions in these areas, please don?t hesitate to pass along word. Many thanks! Wade Lehmann dwlehman at ncsu.edu CV link: http://www.earthandh2o.com/misc/Lehmann%20Curriculum%20Vitae.pdf ___________________________________________ D. Wade Lehmann Dept Environmental and Molecular Toxicology PHP Department, College of Vet Medicine 4700 Hillsborough St, CVM Research Bldg Raleigh, NC 27606 919-515-7402 (lab) 919-515-4237 (fax) __________________________________________ There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance. Hippocrates (460 BC - 377 BC), Law From tjmurdoch at gov.bm Tue Mar 21 10:43:39 2006 From: tjmurdoch at gov.bm (Murdoch, Thad) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:43:39 -0400 Subject: [Coral-List] against moving coral list Message-ID: <9DE9B5AA6E27154A92FD0C9659DD4ADE01096441@GOVEXG003.messaging.gov.bm> I wholeheartedly agree with JH on all points, and like the Coral-list as it is. Also, for those that do not want Coral-list by email, remember there already is a website for viewing the Coral List that can be viewd by topic, author, date etc: http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail/coral-list/ Yay team - Thad From whit.anderson at noaa.gov Tue Mar 21 10:37:33 2006 From: whit.anderson at noaa.gov (Whit Anderson) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:37:33 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Numerical Coral Model Message-ID: Good day, I am involved in the implementing and testing of the ocean biogeochemical (OBGC) component (developed by John Dunne of GFDL) for one of our climate general circulation models. There are no plans (yet) to include a coral model in this system. I will be putting a LONG list of tracers into the ocean model to appease the OBGC component. This leads to my question; What would a coral model need (ie tracers and fluxes)? What kind of timescales are the relevant processes? My guess is that most of what is needed will be present in the system. This post is mostly just to satisfy my curiosity. Again, there are no plans to build and couple a coral model. But just in case... Cheers, Whit Whit Anderson, Ph.D. Oceanographer <>< Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory/NOAA Princeton University Forrestal Campus, US Route 1 P.O. Box 308 Princeton, New Jersey 08542 Phone: (609) 452-6500 ext 6948 http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~wga From dr_iamacdonald at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 21 11:02:29 2006 From: dr_iamacdonald at yahoo.co.uk (Iain Macdonald) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:02:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis In-Reply-To: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <20060321160229.65313.qmail@web25308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Jim et al., After returning to my inbox crammed full of emails i would suggest to those that don't like the volume to subscribe to your digest email. I am a member of several other Internet discussion things, one i rarely check and feel out of touch whenever i do, the other sends me emails whenever a post is made - the latter option sort of negates the original point for wanting to change the coral-list. I think your team are the best hope for coral reef scientists to unite and prevent paradise being lost forever. I don't use your digest function, I'm just patient. Although when it first came out i thought it could use some links to join the headings to the actual email. Maybe you've made this improvement as it makes navigating the emails easier. All the best, Iain Jim Hendee wrote: Hey, Team! Thank you all for your suggestions concerning re-tooling Coral-List. Let me just point out some considerations we should take into account: * Our personnel resources right now are of necessity focused on tasks that we have been specifically funded for (Coral-List and our other lists have not been specifically funded for years), and we can't really afford the time (right now) to totally reconfigure Coral-List (however, see closing statement). * There already are several other very good coral-related multiple-forum Web resources out there. * This is a U.S. Government resource, so we would have to moderate the content; as you know, there are certain things we can't allow, which might creep into a Web-based free comment forum: commercialism, lobbying Congress, profanity, flaming, anti-racist or sexist remarks, etc. This actually helps to maintain decorum in an age where email seems to have encouraged a new kind of discourse, namely, the occasional tendency to be nasty to someone you wouldn't be nasty to in their presence. * What some people consider clogging, others consider important information: an important piece of information might be announced that you would have been interested in, but you missed it because it was set up in a forum area where you rarely (if ever) visit. For instance, what if your personal radar never would have picked up Guana Cay before, but now since it was sort of shoved down your throat in Coral-List, NOW you're interested and you in fact contributed some of your hard-earned moolah to the cause, or even felt compelled to fly over there and join in the battle! * Breaking up this community of ~3,500 members into different groups sort of kills the whole idea (and advantages) of a community! The current format is sort of like one big ongoing International Coral Reef Symposium, where anybody can have the floor to say what they want (within civil limits, of course). You, the student, for instance, has equal voice with some of the Big Legends of coral science. Take for instance a real ICRS (or other) symposium where everybody is fighting to be heard: if you're like me and not inclined to try to out-shout the lout next to you, who always seems to get heard because of his shouting voice, even when you consider it crud [can you say that on Coral-List?], on Coral-List you can still have volume equal to the ignorant loud-mouth next to you. However, it is good to keep the comments coming, and I'm not saying we won't re-tool in the future. In fact, we're looking into a way for subscribers to post photographs, after all. We want to continue to evolve with technology, and considering the excellent group of computer specialists we have here, I'm confident we can do right by you. However, we are jammed with some important tasks, and we may not always be on the cutting edge of list or forum technology, so for now I think we're going to stick with the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." At least for now. Remember, if you don't like the subject that is clogging your email inbox, you can just delete it, or you can apply a filter to remove or re-categorize it. Now, where was I... Cheers, Jim _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. From dtapley at salemstate.edu Tue Mar 21 11:52:58 2006 From: dtapley at salemstate.edu (David Tapley) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:52:58 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis In-Reply-To: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> References: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <076E8E9B-B326-4ABE-BCFE-3503FB7B6FAD@salemstate.edu> Dear Coral-Listers: I maintain several discussion boards AND email lists. For example, I maintain a discussion board for my departmental faculty AND our department's email lists. In general, in-depth discussions seem to fare better in the discussion-board format, whereas rapid communications do better in the email format. An advantage of discussion-board formats is that you have greater control over formatting and quoting. You can post images easily, and all the popular browsers handle them well. (The same cannot be said for formatting and images attached to emails.) Discussion boards keep all postings in a threaded format (an advantage for "serious" discussions; considered a disadvantage by many for more light-hearted chit-chat), so that you can access the entire discussion at any time without finding and then searching through an archive. Remember, the subject line of the email discussion that began all this has morphed several times now... making following it in the archives problematic. THis problem does not occur in discussion boards. I took ten minutes I don't really have today to set up the skeletal architecture of a possible "Coral Reef Research" discussion board based largely on the suggestions by Eric Borneman, hosted at InVisionFree: http://s12.invisionfree.com/Coral_Reef_Research/index.php?act=idx This skeleton could be fleshed out nicely in a very short time. I put only one or two topics in each subject area, but there could be many more. All anyone has to do is ask, and a new topic will be created. Within topics you can start as many thread/discussions as you like. I will look into configuring things so that new subject areas could be started by any member. (I believe only moderators/administrators have the power to do this.) The InVisionFree format is not perfect, but it does better than most. One drawback is the ads, but if enough people want to pony up the cashj, we can "buy out" of the ads for what is supposed to be a nominal fee. Another option is to move the board to a separate server, still using the InVisionFree skin, which I could do if enough people wish. Another advantage is that posters would not be constrained by the restrictions imposed by running Coral-List through a gummint server. Not that the gummint wouldn't still monitor every word you type, mind you... Thanks to Jim from this mostly lurker for years of fascinating reading. If people wish to try to board format, that doesn't mean the email list should end -- far from it. I will continue to read and learn from it, as I assume most or all of the others will as well. -David ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- David W. Tapley vox: 978-542-6381 Associate Professor fax: 978-542-6863 Introductory Biology Coordinator Department of Biology Salem State College 352 Lafayette St. Salem, MA 01970 dtapley at salemstate.edu ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- On Mar 21, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Jim Hendee wrote: > Hey, Team! > > Thank you all for your suggestions concerning re-tooling Coral-List. > Let me just point out some considerations we should take into account: > > * Our personnel resources right now are of necessity focused on > tasks that we have been specifically funded for (Coral-List and > our other lists have not been specifically funded for years), > and > we can't really afford the time (right now) to totally > reconfigure > Coral-List (however, see closing statement). > * There already are several other very good coral-related > multiple-forum Web resources out there. > * This is a U.S. Government resource, so we would have to moderate > the content; as you know, there are certain things we can't > allow, > which might creep into a Web-based free comment forum: > commercialism, lobbying Congress, profanity, flaming, anti- > racist > or sexist remarks, etc. This actually helps to maintain decorum > in an age where email seems to have encouraged a new kind of > discourse, namely, the occasional tendency to be nasty to > someone > you wouldn't be nasty to in their presence. > * What some people consider clogging, others consider important > information: an important piece of information might be > announced > that you would have been interested in, but you missed it > because > it was set up in a forum area where you rarely (if ever) visit. > For instance, what if your personal radar never would have > picked > up Guana Cay before, but now since it was sort of shoved down > your throat in Coral-List, NOW you're interested and you in > fact > contributed some of your hard-earned moolah to the cause, or > even > felt compelled to fly over there and join in the battle! > * Breaking up this community of ~3,500 members into different > groups > sort of kills the whole idea (and advantages) of a > community! The > current format is sort of like one big ongoing International > Coral > Reef Symposium, where anybody can have the floor to say what > they > want (within civil limits, of course). You, the student, for > instance, has equal voice with some of the Big Legends of coral > science. Take for instance a real ICRS (or other) symposium > where everybody is fighting to be heard: if you're like me and > not inclined to try to out-shout the lout next to you, who > always > seems to get heard because of his shouting voice, even when you > consider it crud [can you say that on Coral-List?], on Coral- > List > you can still have volume equal to the ignorant loud-mouth > next to > you. > > > However, it is good to keep the comments coming, and I'm not saying we > won't re-tool in the future. In fact, we're looking into a way for > subscribers to post photographs, after all. We want to continue to > evolve with technology, and considering the excellent group of > computer > specialists we have here, I'm confident we can do right by you. > However, we are jammed with some important tasks, and we may not > always > be on the cutting edge of list or forum technology, so for now I think > we're going to stick with the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix > it." At least for now. > > Remember, if you don't like the subject that is clogging your email > inbox, you can just delete it, or you can apply a filter to remove or > re-categorize it. > > Now, where was I... > > Cheers, > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From klogan at nova.edu Tue Mar 21 12:40:33 2006 From: klogan at nova.edu (Kelly Logan) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:40:33 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Looking for an article Message-ID: <20060321124033.rtrow0b57og8sgw8@mail.acast.nova.edu> I was wondering if anyone has access to a journal article entitled "TBT: An Environmental Dilemma" by ED Goldberg. It was published in Environment ENTVAR Vol 28, No 8, pp 17-20 and 42-44 in October 1986. I have searched various libraries and databases and have even tried e-mailing the author directly, but to no avail. I need a full text or pdf version of this article for a research project. If anyone has access to it and could forward it along I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. -- Kelly Logan Graduate Student LBSOP Research Assistant NOVA Southeastern University Oceanographic Center 8000 N Ocean Dr. Dania Beach, FL 954-262-3681 From renata.ferraril at gmail.com Tue Mar 21 13:14:23 2006 From: renata.ferraril at gmail.com (Renata Ferrari) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:14:23 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Genetic studies on the mesoamerican barrier reef system Message-ID: Hi, I am the marine biologist at Laughing Bird Caye National Park, at Belize. I am doing some bibliographic research on genetic studies executed on the Mesoamerican Barrier Reef Region, specially in Belize. I'm looking for general information about what kind of studies have been done lately.I think this is the perfect listto start searching, I would appreciate any information you can direct me to. Thank you in advance! Renata Ferrari -- "I must be the change I want to see in the world" M. Gandhi Renata Ferrari Legorreta Marine Biologist Friends of Nature Placencia, Belize Central America 00 501 523 3501 / 3377 www.laughingbird.org From horlicks_1989 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 21 13:53:44 2006 From: horlicks_1989 at yahoo.com (Peter Edwards) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:53:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Coral-List] cross sectoral dialogue important In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060321185344.59220.qmail@web32113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello fellow Coral-listers I am a recent addition to this list, although I have been aware of its existence for several years. It very interesting that the Guana Cay debate was at its peak when I decided to subscribe. It underscores some of the reasons why my own career path has moved in its current direction I have noted with interest the comments with respect to re-structuring the list. I have to agree with the position of Jim Hendee. While at times somewhat too adversarial the dialogue here has been useful for both coral reef advocates and "hard-core" scientists. It is this dialogue that I believe is critical to informing this unique on community how best to transfer the knowledge to the wider society. In my opinion suggestions to divide the list into "sections" further encourages compartmentalization of the all work that scientists, managers, educators, resource managers and (dare I suggest) policy analysts/advisors are doing to address the problems of coral conservation. As a Caribbean marine scientist "turned" marine policy graduate student I am attempting to gain the skill set that will allow me to assist in bridging the gap between coral reef science and policy. I have seen some comments here, which seem to suggest that persons involved in policy have inherent "credibility" issues. As student of policy, particular resource economics I have seen where the scientific rigor for this discipline is just as demanding as that found in the biological/chemical sciences. I would therefore be cautious about general labels about who is credible and who isn't. I have a tendency to ramble so to conclude, I think it is important for healthy, respectful exchange of opinions, facts and ideas. which can help with a multi-pronged approach to solving continued threats to coral reefs. Plus ... on a purely selfish note --the "hard science" coral reef information helps keep me connected to my marine biological roots! Keep the comments coming! PETER EDWARDS ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Peter E.T. Edwards Graduate College of Marine Studies 300D Robinson Hall Newark, DE 19716 http://www.ocean.udel.edu coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov wrote: Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov You can reach the person managing the list at coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis (Jim Hendee) 2. Re: Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis (Michael Risk) 3. Seeking reef toxicology positions (D. Wade Lehmann) 4. against moving coral list (Murdoch, Thad) 5. Numerical Coral Model (Whit Anderson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:36:23 -0500 From: "Jim Hendee" Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis To: Coral-List Subscribers Message-ID: <441FF347.8090101 at noaa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey, Team! Thank you all for your suggestions concerning re-tooling Coral-List. Let me just point out some considerations we should take into account: * Our personnel resources right now are of necessity focused on tasks that we have been specifically funded for (Coral-List and our other lists have not been specifically funded for years), and we can't really afford the time (right now) to totally reconfigure Coral-List (however, see closing statement). * There already are several other very good coral-related multiple-forum Web resources out there. * This is a U.S. Government resource, so we would have to moderate the content; as you know, there are certain things we can't allow, which might creep into a Web-based free comment forum: commercialism, lobbying Congress, profanity, flaming, anti-racist or sexist remarks, etc. This actually helps to maintain decorum in an age where email seems to have encouraged a new kind of discourse, namely, the occasional tendency to be nasty to someone you wouldn't be nasty to in their presence. * What some people consider clogging, others consider important information: an important piece of information might be announced that you would have been interested in, but you missed it because it was set up in a forum area where you rarely (if ever) visit. For instance, what if your personal radar never would have picked up Guana Cay before, but now since it was sort of shoved down your throat in Coral-List, NOW you're interested and you in fact contributed some of your hard-earned moolah to the cause, or even felt compelled to fly over there and join in the battle! * Breaking up this community of ~3,500 members into different groups sort of kills the whole idea (and advantages) of a community! The current format is sort of like one big ongoing International Coral Reef Symposium, where anybody can have the floor to say what they want (within civil limits, of course). You, the student, for instance, has equal voice with some of the Big Legends of coral science. Take for instance a real ICRS (or other) symposium where everybody is fighting to be heard: if you're like me and not inclined to try to out-shout the lout next to you, who always seems to get heard because of his shouting voice, even when you consider it crud [can you say that on Coral-List?], on Coral-List you can still have volume equal to the ignorant loud-mouth next to you. However, it is good to keep the comments coming, and I'm not saying we won't re-tool in the future. In fact, we're looking into a way for subscribers to post photographs, after all. We want to continue to evolve with technology, and considering the excellent group of computer specialists we have here, I'm confident we can do right by you. However, we are jammed with some important tasks, and we may not always be on the cutting edge of list or forum technology, so for now I think we're going to stick with the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." At least for now. Remember, if you don't like the subject that is clogging your email inbox, you can just delete it, or you can apply a filter to remove or re-categorize it. Now, where was I... Cheers, Jim ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:52:58 -0500 From: "Michael Risk" Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis To: "Jim Hendee" , Coral-List Subscribers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Thank you, Jim. I looked in vain through the other relevant postings for that key phrase: "And what is more, I volunteer to take over the new administrating tasks, and vow to maintain the same high standards set by Jim and his staff." Although there were several suggestions, there was only ONE complaint. I don't think it's broken-but if YOU out there think it is, then by all means volunteer to fix it. Keep your stick on the ice. Mike ===================================================================== "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us". "Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem" ("Dont make things more complicated than they need be") William of Ockham (1285-1349) check out my web site! http://ericthorjamaica.tripod.com/ericthor/index.html --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. From crowc at ipfw.edu Tue Mar 21 14:27:52 2006 From: crowc at ipfw.edu (Christopher Crow) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] against moving coral list In-Reply-To: <9DE9B5AA6E27154A92FD0C9659DD4ADE01096441@GOVEXG003.messaging.gov.bm> References: <9DE9B5AA6E27154A92FD0C9659DD4ADE01096441@GOVEXG003.messaging.gov.bm> Message-ID: <407FB19A-04F5-4AD5-B1E3-7C3ED9644DE4@ipfw.edu> Dear All: Some of us are suggesting changes be made to the format in order to foster more discussion. Others of us are suggesting changes be made to the format because we are not interested in the recent discussions. It would seem as if some of us are either unimpressed or are overwhelmed by the volume of email generated in recent discussions. This reminds me why there is an OFF button, as well as a SCAN button, on the radio in my truck: If I do not like what is being played by one station I can turn the darned thing off or request that it find me a more agreeable song on another station. I tend to sample threads here, read those threads for which I have a certain interest, and ignore those other threads for which for I lack sufficient enthusiasms. Life is interesting, but some parts of it are far more interesting than other parts of it. Allow me to suggest the obvious to those of us who would have Jim and NOAA change things here and now: You see the need, you know what is wrong with the here and now, you know the solution, and (more importantly) you know it shall not take a great deal of heavy lifting on the collective parts of those who make your requested changes. Go ahead. Do it yourself. You have the advantage of knowing it ain't gonna be hard to accomplish. Cheers, Christopher "My better mousetrap involves a lot of Saran Wrap? and a small cloth blindfold. The onliest part I'm having trouble with is convincing the mouse to keep the blindfold on long enough for me to safely employ the Saran Wrap?." (an unidentified man named Alfred, 1986, personal communication) On Mar 21, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Murdoch, Thad wrote: > I wholeheartedly agree with JH on all points, and like the Coral- > list as > it is. > > Also, for those that do not want Coral-list by email, remember there > already is a website for viewing the Coral List that can be viewd by > topic, author, date etc: > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail/coral-list/ > > Yay team - Thad > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From delbeek at waquarium.org Tue Mar 21 14:24:45 2006 From: delbeek at waquarium.org (Charles Delbeek) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:24:45 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis In-Reply-To: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> References: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060321091556.02b12ae0@mail.waquarium.org> I echo Jim's concerns on the type of discourse that can take place on a forum ... I also have a strong aversion to the common Internet forum practice of using aliases, which only seems to fuel the type of negative behaviour Jim points out below. In addition, the cost of running and moderating such a forum in man hours alone may be prohibitive, not to mention the costs to host such a forum on a server. Many of these forums rely on advertising to keep themselves going, and some have taken to charging a monthly fee to access certain forum functions such as searches, or even the forum itself. The recent debate on the Bahamas development would be better served on a forum, and those involved want to use such a venue, then why not start it on one of the forums Jim mentions are already out there? The CoralList served its purpose, it alerted those who might be interested in the issue. For those not interested in a topic ... the delete key is quite a handy one. :-) > * This is a U.S. Government resource, so we would have to moderate > the content; as you know, there are certain things we can't allow, > which might creep into a Web-based free comment forum: > commercialism, lobbying Congress, profanity, flaming, anti-racist > or sexist remarks, etc. This actually helps to maintain decorum > in an age where email seems to have encouraged a new kind of > discourse, namely, the occasional tendency to be nasty to someone > you wouldn't be nasty to in their presence. Aloha! J. Charles Delbeek M.Sc. Aquarium Biologist III Waikiki Aquarium, University of Hawaii 2777 Kalakaua Ave. Honolulu, HI, USA 96815 www.waquarium.org 808-923-9741 ext. 0 VOICE 808-923-1771 FAX From Bprecht at pbsj.com Tue Mar 21 16:04:03 2006 From: Bprecht at pbsj.com (Precht, Bill) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:04:03 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] against moving coral list Message-ID: <8511092CB6C11C4BB2632F61A82C620C04613CF8@MIAMBX.pbsj.com> To All: This list - through all its ups and downs - continues to be a source of valuable information and collegial exchange (usually). I think one of the great values of this list-serve are numerous recent call backs to comments posted years ago. Jim and NOAA should be commended for doing such an outstanding job. I hope this continues for a long time. Cheers, Bill Precht From shorttara at hotmail.com Tue Mar 21 16:00:10 2006 From: shorttara at hotmail.com (Tara Short) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:00:10 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] against moving coral list References: <9DE9B5AA6E27154A92FD0C9659DD4ADE01096441@GOVEXG003.messaging.gov.bm> <407FB19A-04F5-4AD5-B1E3-7C3ED9644DE4@ipfw.edu> Message-ID: I agree with Christopher ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Crow" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] against moving coral list Dear All: Some of us are suggesting changes be made to the format in order to foster more discussion. Others of us are suggesting changes be made to the format because we are not interested in the recent discussions. It would seem as if some of us are either unimpressed or are overwhelmed by the volume of email generated in recent discussions. This reminds me why there is an OFF button, as well as a SCAN button, on the radio in my truck: If I do not like what is being played by one station I can turn the darned thing off or request that it find me a more agreeable song on another station. I tend to sample threads here, read those threads for which I have a certain interest, and ignore those other threads for which for I lack sufficient enthusiasms. Life is interesting, but some parts of it are far more interesting than other parts of it. Allow me to suggest the obvious to those of us who would have Jim and NOAA change things here and now: You see the need, you know what is wrong with the here and now, you know the solution, and (more importantly) you know it shall not take a great deal of heavy lifting on the collective parts of those who make your requested changes. Go ahead. Do it yourself. You have the advantage of knowing it ain't gonna be hard to accomplish. Cheers, Christopher "My better mousetrap involves a lot of Saran Wrap? and a small cloth blindfold. The onliest part I'm having trouble with is convincing the mouse to keep the blindfold on long enough for me to safely employ the Saran Wrap?." (an unidentified man named Alfred, 1986, personal communication) On Mar 21, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Murdoch, Thad wrote: > I wholeheartedly agree with JH on all points, and like the Coral- > list as > it is. > > Also, for those that do not want Coral-list by email, remember there > already is a website for viewing the Coral List that can be viewd by > topic, author, date etc: > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail/coral-list/ > > Yay team - Thad > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From eborneman at uh.edu Tue Mar 21 16:20:22 2006 From: eborneman at uh.edu (Eric Borneman) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:20:22 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Regarding a Coral-List Metamorphosis In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060321091556.02b12ae0@mail.waquarium.org> References: <441FF347.8090101@noaa.gov> <6.2.3.4.2.20060321091556.02b12ae0@mail.waquarium.org> Message-ID: Charles and list: These are all aspects easily avoided with a text-only based board absent of the slow connection limitations of graphics unless in a separate graphic intensive area, requirements where not "screenames" or aliases aren't allowed is so do-able as to be a non-issue, and advertising is not needed if there is server space available and volunteers. Membership can be based like coral-list and does not have to be a public forum, even if the public could view but not contribute. Then, you also have greater public access to some of the discussions like the recent resiliency "thread" that, in turn, alerts the public concomitantly addressing the "thread" about reality TV/ getting more awareness, etc. Maybe someone would actually contact admins with ideas and offers to do just some of those ideas proposed. The fee comment - well, some sites charge them, most don't. Bringing up what other sites do or do not do has no bearing on the potential of any new creation. Using the delete key on a mailing list is a no- brainer, but you never know if you want to delete a post until you've read it. Also, some servers have limited space, and when a mailing- list gets active, and especially when one belongs to numerous mailing- lists, some far more busy than coral-list, all of a sudden people's emails start getting bounced from lack of server space or there are several hundred emails to wade through (and hit the delete key) every day which is not always the most convenient thing to do. Again, it was a suggestion and within literally minutes, David Tapley has shown how simple it can be to create such a site. I recall days of bulletin boards and usenet and sometimes moving along with technology is a good thing. As for using other forums suggested, again, that's a no-brainer. Of course people use other sites, but I think the main point suggested here was to streamline and improve an existing valuable resource and perhaps be able to expand the content in a more user-friendly manner. If it is a matter of the points Jim suggested, then case closed. Its his baby and policy may prevent any such action. But, most moderation and administration of sites I have been involved in are volunteer-based and the number of people willing to donate a modicum of time, myself included, might just be surprising. _______________________________ Eric Borneman Department of Biology and Biochemistry University of Houston Science and Research Bldg. II 4800 Calhoun Rd. Houston, TX 77204-5001 ph: 713-743-2667 On Mar 21, 2006, at 1:24 PM, Charles Delbeek wrote: > I echo Jim's concerns on the type of discourse that can take place on > a forum ... I also have a strong aversion to the common Internet > forum practice of using aliases, which only seems to fuel the type of > negative behaviour Jim points out below. In addition, the cost of > running and moderating such a forum in man hours alone may be > prohibitive, not to mention the costs to host such a forum on a > server. Many of these forums rely on advertising to keep themselves > going, and some have taken to charging a monthly fee to access > certain forum functions such as searches, or even the forum itself. > > The recent debate on the Bahamas development would be better served > on a forum, and those involved want to use such a venue, then why not > start it on one of the forums Jim mentions are already out there? The > CoralList served its purpose, it alerted those who might be > interested in the issue. > > For those not interested in a topic ... the delete key is quite a > handy one. :-) > > >> * This is a U.S. Government resource, so we would have to >> moderate >> the content; as you know, there are certain things we can't >> allow, >> which might creep into a Web-based free comment forum: >> commercialism, lobbying Congress, profanity, flaming, anti- >> racist >> or sexist remarks, etc. This actually helps to maintain >> decorum >> in an age where email seems to have encouraged a new kind of >> discourse, namely, the occasional tendency to be nasty to >> someone >> you wouldn't be nasty to in their presence. > > Aloha! > > > J. Charles Delbeek M.Sc. > > Aquarium Biologist III > Waikiki Aquarium, > University of Hawaii > 2777 Kalakaua Ave. > Honolulu, HI, USA 96815 > www.waquarium.org > > 808-923-9741 ext. 0 VOICE > 808-923-1771 FAX > From grmrs at wcs.org Tue Mar 21 19:02:16 2006 From: grmrs at wcs.org (GRMRS) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:02:16 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Help with the design of a Wet Lab Message-ID: Dear Coral list, Glovers Reef Marine Research Station is owned and run by Wildlife Conservation Society. Situated on an atoll about 28 miles from the shore of Belize, the station offers scientists throughout the world an opportunity to conduct high quality research focused on conserving marine wildlife at one of the Caribbean?s most complex and important coral reef systems. Since it?s opening in 1996, the station has undergone many changes and is currently upgrading its facilities, including building a new wet lab. As Station Manager, I am looking for people with experience building wet labs who could advise me on equipment to purchase, give me tips for a successful wet-lab design and share ideas. I am also looking for someone in the Caribbean region who would be interested in drawing plans for the wet lab and oversee the actual construction. This is a small-scale wet lab (in proportion with the island!) and would be used sporadically upon request. We have an electric generator to run a water pump during specific hours and solar system to run electricity (light) at all time. It seems that the most popular design for this type of lab is a head tank that is filled once or twice a day with the electric pump and then circulates by gravity feed into the system. My main concern is the maintenance of the system and the set up of the workstation. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thank you, Annick Cros Station Manager Glovers Reef Research Station Belize e-mail: grmrs at wcs.org tel: 501 522 2153 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/287 - Release Date: 3/21/2006 From k.fabricius at aims.gov.au Tue Mar 21 19:10:08 2006 From: k.fabricius at aims.gov.au (Katharina Fabricius) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:10:08 +1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Bremen ISRS Conference Session Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20060322100822.01a0e2a8@email.aims.gov.au> Dear Coral-Listers, We would like to draw your attention to the following session at the 6th European Meeting of the International Society for Reef Studies in Bremen, 19 - 22 September 2006. Session 8: " Long-term or large-scale observations of changes in reef communities - 1" This session will serve as a forum to discuss long-term or large-scale variation in coral reef communities. Studies may cover time scales spanning from geological to ecological periods, and/or spatial scales from regional to basin-wide studies. Contributions towards a better understanding of natural variation, and system responses to altered regimes of terrestrial runoff through catchment modification, deteriorating water quality and increasing fishing pressures are particularly relevant. Presentations may explore, but are not restricted to, concepts and relationships involving nutrient availability, predation, coral-algal dynamics, ecosystem health, ecological indicators and phase shifts. Researchers and students working on this topic are invited to submit an abstract for consideration in this session. Please submit your abstract by May 15 to http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php . Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to Session 8: " Long-term large-scale observations of changes in reef communities - 1" Please also email a copy to k.Fabricius at aims.gov.au and e.wolanski at aims.gov.au. We look forward to your participation. Best regards, Katharina Fabricius and Eric Wolanski <+><\\//><+><+><\\//><+><+><\\//> Dr. Katharina Fabricius Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS) Mail: AIMS, PMB 3, Townsville Qld 4810, Australia Phone: +61 - 7 - 4753 4412 or 4758 1747, Fax: +61 - 7 - 4772 5852 Email: k.fabricius at aims.gov.au Web: http://www.aims.gov.au, http://www.reef.crc.org.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The information contained in this communication is for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed, and may contain information which is the subject of legal privilege and/or copyright. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return E-Mail and delete the transmission, together with any attachments, from your system. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jaapk at science.uva.nl Wed Mar 22 05:01:44 2006 From: jaapk at science.uva.nl (Jaap Kaandorp) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:01:44 +0100 Subject: [Coral-List] Numerical Coral Model Message-ID: <20060322100144.GA29220@mremote.science.uva.nl> Dear Whit, This idea to include a coral model in a climate circulation models sounds very interesting. Regarding your question about fluxes and time scales, we might have some ideas about this. In my group we have been developing models of growth and form of individual coral colonies and the influence of the physical environment. In the models we have been investigating the influence of different flow velocities and flow patterns, (advection-)diffusion processes, available light intensities, and carbonate limitation of the growth process. We have also investigated these environmental parameters in 3D models created from actual corals using 3D images obtained with computer tomography scanning (CT). Although our models are far more detailed (and contain for example a detailed morphological description of the coral colony) than what you probably will need in a climate circulation models, we might be able to provide you with some estimations of fluxes, absorption of nutrients, time scales and model parameters. Two papers about the coral models: J.A. Kaandorp, P.M.A. Sloot, R.M.H. Merks, R.P.M. Bak and M.J.A. Vermeij, Morphogenesis of the branching reef coral Madracis mirabilis, Proc. Roy. Soc. B. 272:127-133, 2005 J.A. Kaandorp, E.A. Koopman, P.M.A. Sloot, R.P.M. Bak, M.J.A. Vermeij and L.E.H. Lampmann Simulation and analysis of flow patterns around the scleractinian coral Madracis mirabilis (Duchassaing and Michelotti). Phil. Trans. R. Soc. Lond. B Please let me know if we can help you here in creating such a climate circulation model including a coral model and if it would be useful to talk more about this. best regards, Jaap >Message: 5 >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:37:33 -0500 >From: Whit Anderson >Subject: [Coral-List] Numerical Coral Model >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > >Good day, > >I am involved in the implementing and testing of the ocean >biogeochemical (OBGC) component (developed by John Dunne of GFDL) for >one of our climate general circulation models. There are no plans >(yet) to include a coral model in this system. I will be putting a >LONG list of tracers into the ocean model to appease the OBGC >component. This leads to my question; What would a coral model need >(ie tracers and fluxes)? What kind of timescales are the relevant >processes? My guess is that most of what is needed will be present in >the system. This post is mostly just to satisfy my curiosity. Again, >there are no plans to build and couple a coral model. But just in >case... > >Cheers, > >Whit > > >Whit Anderson, Ph.D. Oceanographer <>< >Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory/NOAA >Princeton University >Forrestal Campus, US Route 1 P.O. Box 308 >Princeton, New Jersey 08542 >Phone: (609) 452-6500 ext 6948 >http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~wga -- Dr. Jaap A. Kaandorp Section Computational Science Faculty of Science University of Amsterdam Kruislaan 403 1098 SJ Amsterdam The Netherlands Phone: +31 20 5257539 / +31 20 5257462 email: jaapk at science.uva.nl fax: +31 20 5257490 URL: http://www.science.uva.nl/~jaapk/ See for the 3rd INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON NETWORKS IN BIOINFORMATICS May 29 - 31, 2006 in Amsterdam http://isnb.amc.uva.nl/ From george at hwoodman.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 22 08:55:49 2006 From: george at hwoodman.demon.co.uk (George Woodman) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:55:49 +0800 Subject: [Coral-List] re size of email Message-ID: <44215765.1040303@hwoodman.demon.co.uk> I have a quick practical suggestion to reduce the size of the Coral List emails. Usually more than half of each email contains quoted portions of previous messages, even when the thread is obvious. Often I have to scroll a long way down from a message because of its quoted material before I can find the next message. Therefore I suggest that everyone making a posting undertakes a little deletion work when 'replying' to the list, thus saving a lot of download and scrolling activity of all of the other members of the list. This has to be a winner on utilitarian grounds! If the thread of the message to be posted needs highlighting, it's simple enough to make a reference to the issue number and the author of the original message that is the subject of the reply. Cheers, George From dustanp at cofc.edu Wed Mar 22 11:26:00 2006 From: dustanp at cofc.edu (Phil Dustan) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:26:00 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Message-ID: <44217A98.1040009@cofc.edu> Dear Listers, Now that we have exhausted all the rhetoric and have cleared our minds and consciences, might it be possible to translate our feelings into actions that could be accomplished at the scales of Global, regional, and local? lease post your comments if you?d like to contribute and I will work towards collating them?????Please try to keep things short (and perhaps sweet). Here are a few possibilities: Global - US should sign the Kyoto Accord, Reduce generation of African Dust Regional in the Caribbean Large scale culture and release of Diadema antillarum Construct a basin-wide system of no-take MPAs Local: Larger no-take zones in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary Construction of sewer and septic systems in the Florida Keys that actually meet design criteria for removal of nutrients,BOD, and microbial contaminants Provide incentives to restore the terrestrial landscape to minimize loss of nutrients and sediments Thanks, Phil -- Phillip Dustan Ph.D. Department of Biology College of Charleston Charleston SC 29424 (843) 953-8086 voice (843) 953-5453 (Fax) From gte405r at mail.gatech.edu Wed Mar 22 16:15:26 2006 From: gte405r at mail.gatech.edu (Sara Edge) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:15:26 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Water picking coral tissue Message-ID: <1143062126.4421be6e7d29d@webmail.mail.gatech.edu> Can anyone recommend a water pick that works well to remove tissue from coral (Porites, Montastrea, Pocillopora etc.), preferably in small volumes? Sara Edge Georgia Institute of Technology School of Biology 310 Ferst Drive Atlanta, Georgia 30332-0230 gte405r at prism.gatech.edu From pilcher at tm.net.my Wed Mar 22 19:06:00 2006 From: pilcher at tm.net.my (Nicolas J. Pilcher) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:06:00 +0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Sabah's turtles / reefs and reefballs to the rescue Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060323080514.024a6070@pop.tm.net.my> Hi all: The turtle islands (there are three) were purchased by the Sabah State Government in 1966, and have been home to only a small team of rangers and their families since that time. On Selingan there is also a small detachment of security personnel. There is a significant trawl industry out of nearby Sandakan. In Sarawak, our neighbouring state, the Parks authority seeded reefballs at random in waters near their islands to deter bottom trawling - the idea was that no trawler captain wanted to be raising a reefball in his nets. By and large this worked there. I am not aware of the reason for deploying them in Sabah though - however, if the reason was to deter netting, it is likely successful at that - just not at creating a new reef or providing erosion control. As for turtle nesting, the population size / nesting trend is (for the most) part not related. I raised the turtle nesting issue simply because the age to maturity is in the region of 30 years, and the hatchlings that leave return as adults to the same beaches - thus the stability is obviously sufficient for the beaches to continue to exist 30 years later without the need for reefballs. Hope this helps, Nick At 04:37 PM 3/20/2006 -0800, Lee Goldman wrote: >Hi Todd, > > I'm afraid i'm a bit confused by your statement about the reef balls in > Sabah. You established a bunch of reef balls 8 years ago and that has > stopped the netting(?) and substantially increased the amount of turlte > nestings in the area? Can you please elaborate on this and included your > evidence? Also, when were these islands made off limits to humans? > Perhaps, assuming that 8 years is enough time to see an increase in > turtle nesting, there is a stronger correlation to the increase in turtle > nestings due to lack of human interference? > > Thanks, > > Lee Goldman > Coralfarmguam > PO Box 6682 > Tamuning, Guam > 671.646.6744 > Coralfarmgaum at yahoo.com > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail >Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list Dr. Nicolas J. Pilcher Co-Chair IUCN SSC Marine Turtle Specialist Group Executive Director Marine Research Foundation 136 Lorong Pokok Seraya 2 Taman Khidmat 88450 Kota Kinabalu Sabah Malaysia Tel ++ 60 88 386136 Fax ++ 60 88 387136 Email: pilcher at tm.net.my From cat64fish at yahoo.com Thu Mar 23 08:50:49 2006 From: cat64fish at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Low) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:50:49 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list In-Reply-To: <44217A98.1040009@cofc.edu> Message-ID: <20060323135049.10713.qmail@web35905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Phil, I collated some from the various emails on this issue ... mostly "personal" level stuff, though. Hope this helps. Key actions - local actions for global response 1. Education - educate the kids - reach out (don't preach to the converted) - identify a mascot species - create realistic, entertaining shows - educate developers / politicians 2. Reduce consumption - reduce energy consumption (air conditioners, lights, electrical appliances) - make recycling part of our life - consume less - buy local - travel less - use public transport, use the stairs, walk instead of drive (for short distances) 3. Participate - teach at a local school - be active in NGOs - blog about issues - by creating websites on conservation issues --- Phil Dustan wrote: > Dear Listers, > Now that we have exhausted all the rhetoric and > have cleared our minds > and consciences, might it be possible to translate > our feelings into > actions that could be accomplished at the scales of > Global, regional, > and local? > > lease post your comments if you?d like to contribute > and I will work > towards collating them Please try to keep things > short (and perhaps > sweet). > > Here are a few possibilities: > > Global - > US should sign the Kyoto Accord, > Reduce generation of African Dust > > Regional in the Caribbean > Large scale culture and release of Diadema > antillarum > Construct a basin-wide system of no-take MPAs > > Local: > Larger no-take zones in the Florida Keys National > Marine Sanctuary > Construction of sewer and septic systems in the > Florida Keys that > actually meet design criteria for removal of > nutrients,BOD, and > microbial contaminants > Provide incentives to restore the terrestrial > landscape to > minimize loss of nutrients and sediments > > Thanks, > Phil > > > -- > Phillip Dustan Ph.D. > Department of Biology > College of Charleston > Charleston SC 29424 > (843) 953-8086 voice > (843) 953-5453 (Fax) > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/ From j_urich at yahoo.com Thu Mar 23 10:42:33 2006 From: j_urich at yahoo.com (Juan F Urich) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:42:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Another Forrest Gump Argument against moving the list Message-ID: <20060323154234.75918.qmail@web32812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Listers: Sorry if I dont extend much on the argument, but I pose the following for considering. On one hand Coral list is invaluable due to the speed with which important scientific and technical discussion and knowledge transfer occur among coral reef scientist (The origin of internet), that also include informed stakeholders. This added to the concerns of other nonscientist but nevertheless interested stakeholders with valuable opinions and information regarding the coral reef ecosystem, makes coral list an unusal example of a "transdisciplinarity common of concerns" not necesarily totally scientific but nevertheless fruitful and positive towards the comprehension and conservation of the coral reef. This last point Is it not what the whole list is all about?. One last thought Without going as far as Science for the People of the mid 70`s: Having mundane discussions are part of the boundary conditions with which Scientist have to deal many times in order to set the right scientific questions in the appropiate reality context. I hope my comments are not take as harsh or offensive "Thats all I have to say about that". Regards Juan F Urich --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. From jogden at marine.usf.edu Thu Mar 23 11:06:22 2006 From: jogden at marine.usf.edu (John Ogden) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:06:22 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060323110543.047fa8f8@marine.usf.edu> Hear ye, hear ye! Billy Causey, Superintendent of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, has been selected by USF to receive an Honorary Ph.D. in Marine Science at Commencement in May 2006. John C. Ogden, Director Florida Institute of Oceanography 830 First Street South St. Petersburg, FL 33701 USA Tel. 727-553-1100 Fax 727-553-1109 Http://www.marine.usf.edu/FIO/ http://www.cas.usf.edu/biology/Faculty/ogden.html From Garrett-George at MonroeCounty-FL.Gov Thu Mar 23 12:09:46 2006 From: Garrett-George at MonroeCounty-FL.Gov (Garrett-George) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:09:46 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. Message-ID: <4C55A8BB151ED1438E87E498EF2BD08514344B@mc-srv-exchange.bocc.monroecounty-fl.gov> All: I happened to be at the NOAA docks in Key West the day before yesterday (March 21) to hear this great news from Billy first hand. I know from my conversation with him that he was dumbfounded and extremely humbled. I have had the pleasure of knowing Billy for more than 20 years and consider him my mentor on issues of marine conservation. For those who know Billy and have had the pleasure of working with him over the years, this is an honor that USF could not have better placed. For those who don't know Billy, trust those of us who do - this is fantastic and could not have been bestowed on a better or more deserving individual. George Garrett Director of Marine Resources Monroe County, Florida The Florida Keys -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of John Ogden Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:06 AM To: Coral List Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. Hear ye, hear ye! Billy Causey, Superintendent of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, has been selected by USF to receive an Honorary Ph.D. in Marine Science at Commencement in May 2006. John C. Ogden, Director Florida Institute of Oceanography 830 First Street South St. Petersburg, FL 33701 USA Tel. 727-553-1100 Fax 727-553-1109 Http://www.marine.usf.edu/FIO/ http://www.cas.usf.edu/biology/Faculty/ogden.html _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From gbustamante at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 23 11:22:03 2006 From: gbustamante at bellsouth.net (Georgina Bustamante) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:22:03 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060323110543.047fa8f8@marine.usf.edu> Message-ID: wow!! That is a good news... He fully deserves it!! He has contributed to the expansion, visibility and application of coral reef scientific knowledge more than most Ph.Ds. ... and not only in the Fl Keys and the US, but also in the Caribbean region, where he is highly respected and regarded as a strong US ally in coral reef conservation. Congratulations Dr. Billy!! Georgina Bustamante, Ph.D. Marine Science and Policy Consultant 3800 N Hills Dr. #216 Hollywood, Florida 33021 U.S.A. tel/fax(request) 954-963-3626 -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov]On Behalf Of John Ogden Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:06 AM To: Coral List Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. Hear ye, hear ye! Billy Causey, Superintendent of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, has been selected by USF to receive an Honorary Ph.D. in Marine Science at Commencement in May 2006. John C. Ogden, Director Florida Institute of Oceanography 830 First Street South St. Petersburg, FL 33701 USA Tel. 727-553-1100 Fax 727-553-1109 Http://www.marine.usf.edu/FIO/ http://www.cas.usf.edu/biology/Faculty/ogden.html _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From szmanta at uncw.edu Thu Mar 23 12:21:45 2006 From: szmanta at uncw.edu (Szmant, Alina) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:21:45 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Message-ID: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90AC634CD@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> I'd like to add one real 'biggy' to the list: DON'T EAT REEF SPECIES, ESPECIALLY SPINY LOBSTER It's seafood demand that creates the incentive for people to capture, at any cost, and down to the last critter, reef fishes, lobsters, octopi etc. There is plenty of evidence, some only conjectural I admit, about the effects on 'reef health' of lop-sided coral reef trophic webs with no predators, and that includes the grazers, too, which prey on smaller critters. I was amazed after the furor about Bakers Cay that there was barely a peep about opening the Florida Keys lobster fishery a month early. The lobster fishermen in the Keys are trashing our precious coral reefs with their traps and lines, and I don't hear anyone screaming about that...only sewage! Why not???? After every hurricane or major storm, the reefs are covered by trap debris that stays there for years banging into the corals. The thick lines from the traps drag for 50 to 100 of feet and get tangled into the few remaining Acropora colonies, and all over sponges and soft corals. The lobster fishermen are not responsible for recovering lost/broken traps. They just go buy new ones and toss them out there the following year as close as they can to any unprotected hard-bottom/coral reef and out-lining the perimeters of the SPAs(Sanctuary Preservation Areas... no-take zones within the FKNMS). No wonder that the traps end up inside the SPAs after every storm. The modern seafood industry is amazing! And the issue is not limited to just local reef fisheries. Fishes (generically including lobster, octopus etc) caught off of Honduras, Martinique, Guana Cay or any place else in the world, end up in consolidation markets in major ports (e.g. Miami, San Francisco), and from their to major re-packagers and international seafood redistribution centers (e.g. Kansas City) from where they are shipped to local distributors for sale to restaurants (e.g. Chicago, Wilmington, La Parguera PR, Athens Ga, Key Largo FL, Nassau). So there's no way to know which desecrated reef the snapper or grouper you buy came from (i.e. one in your back yard you are trying to protect, or one in somebody else's back yard that you are willing to look the other way in order to enjoy a nice meal). David Doubilet, famous National Geographic UW photographer, who is lucky enough to travel and photograph the most remote and 'pristine' of coral reefs, was asked what the biggest change he had observed in coral reefs was (this was ca. 10 years ago), and he replied: No big fishes or big anything else. Thus it's not just near developments that this is happening, it's everywhere people can get with their boats and GPS and sonar fish finders...everywhere... Including where the 15 commercial fishing boats on Guana Cay catch their fishes. My suggestions for all of you out there who care about the World's coral reefs (and "World Peace", for those of you who are Miss Congeniality fans)do the following: 1) Never, ever again take a vacation to a coral reef unless you have a way to take home with you every scrap of material (soda & beer bottles, left over food, your personal waste products, including used toilet paper). 2) Convince all of your friends and neighbors from taking reef vacations, and protest at local travel agents that sell people tours to coral reef locations. 3) Never, EVER again eat a spiny lobster, grouper, snapper or any other reef dwelling predator, and complain vociferously if you find them listed on the menu any place you eat, or if anyone else in your party orders them in your presence. If everyone participated in this way, we could maybe start to reverse the health of coral reefs, all of which are overfished compared to their pre-modern condition. Even within no-take zones there's plenty of poaching,a nd by only trying to protect a few reef areas against fishing (20 % of US reefs is the goal of the US Coral Reef Task Force) then you condemn 80 % of the reefs of the world to have dysfunctional trophic dynamics (i.e. too much algae and sponges, and not much of anything else). OK, this is longer than I had hoped, but I am now ready for the flaming to begin. Jim H. advised me to drink some good PR rum to fortify myself, but rum is made from sugar cane and we all know that sugar cane uses a lot of fertilizer, and the run-off from the sugar cane fields has been damaging to coral reefs all over the Caribbean, especially those of my beloved Puerto Rico (in the past, very little cane left in PR; now it's sun coffee for all you coffee drinkers), so I'll have to stick with Diet Coke (until I can find the connection from that to coral reefs). Alina Szmant ******************************************************************* Dr. Alina M. Szmant Coral Reef Research Group UNCW-Center for Marine Science 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln Wilmington NC 28409 Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410 Cell: (910)200-3913 email: szmanta at uncw.edu Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta ****************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Low Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:51 AM To: Phil Dustan; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Hi Phil, I collated some from the various emails on this issue ... mostly "personal" level stuff, though. Hope this helps. Key actions - local actions for global response 1. Education - educate the kids - reach out (don't preach to the converted) - identify a mascot species - create realistic, entertaining shows - educate developers / politicians 2. Reduce consumption - reduce energy consumption (air conditioners, lights, electrical appliances) - make recycling part of our life - consume less - buy local - travel less - use public transport, use the stairs, walk instead of drive (for short distances) 3. Participate - teach at a local school - be active in NGOs - blog about issues - by creating websites on conservation issues --- Phil Dustan wrote: > Dear Listers, > Now that we have exhausted all the rhetoric and > have cleared our minds > and consciences, might it be possible to translate > our feelings into > actions that could be accomplished at the scales of > Global, regional, > and local? > > lease post your comments if you'd like to contribute > and I will work > towards collating them...............Please try to keep things > short (and perhaps > sweet). > > Here are a few possibilities: > > Global - > US should sign the Kyoto Accord, > Reduce generation of African Dust > > Regional in the Caribbean > Large scale culture and release of Diadema > antillarum > Construct a basin-wide system of no-take MPAs > > Local: > Larger no-take zones in the Florida Keys National > Marine Sanctuary > Construction of sewer and septic systems in the > Florida Keys that > actually meet design criteria for removal of > nutrients,BOD, and > microbial contaminants > Provide incentives to restore the terrestrial > landscape to > minimize loss of nutrients and sediments > > Thanks, > Phil > > > -- > Phillip Dustan Ph.D. > Department of Biology > College of Charleston > Charleston SC 29424 > (843) 953-8086 voice > (843) 953-5453 (Fax) > > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From sjameson at coralseas.com Thu Mar 23 06:47:05 2006 From: sjameson at coralseas.com (Dr. Stephen Jameson) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:47:05 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] NEW anti-global warming ad campaign In-Reply-To: <44217A98.1040009@cofc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Coral-List, See press releases below. Best regards, Dr. Stephen C. Jameson, President Coral Seas Inc. - Integrated Coastal Zone Management 4254 Hungry Run Road, The Plains, VA 20198-1715 USA Office: 703-754-8690, Fax: 703-754-9139 Email: sjameson at coralseas.com Web Site: http://www.coralseas.com and Research Collaborator Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History Washington, DC 20560 ************************************ March 02, 2006, 11:59:22 PM Title: Gore to launch anti-global warming ad campaign http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002114 941 (http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=100211 4941) (AdWeek) - Former vice president Al Gore launched his keynote address at the American Association of Advertising Agencies' Media Conference here this morning by promising not to do a commercial for his new cable network, Current TV. And he didn't. Instead, he urged the media industry to contribute airtime to an upcoming public service campaign alerting consumers to the dangers of global warming. Gore spent most of his 20-minute presentation detailing the heavy toll that global warming is taking on the earth's ecosystem. He said that a new coalition, to be announced soon, comprised of environmental, labor, religious and other groups would be raising money to make "major ad buys over the next three years" to address global warming. Gore then asked the media industry to step up with a "dollar for dollar" matching contribution for that campaign. Gore said he was contributing the proceeds from a book and a documentary on the subject (both to be released later this year) to the coalition. "The climate crisis is the most serious challenge our civilization has ever faced," he said. (http://www.adweek.com/adweek/photos/2006/03/02_Media_News_AlGore_L.jpg) Title: Re: Gore to launch anti-global warming ad campaign Post by: Janet on March 03, 2006, 12:42:01 AM Forgive the source and it's snarkiness, but it has a few more details... http://www.nypost.com/business/60438.htm (http://www.nypost.com/business/60438.htm) GORE: GREENS PLAN BIG AD SPEND March 3, 2006 -- ORLANDO - Former Vice President and wannabe media mogul Al Gore is hitting up Madison Avenue for help on a major ad blitz aimed at fighting global warming. Speaking to a room of advertising and media executives, Gore announced yesterday that a coalition of environmental, labor and religious groups will launch a three-year campaign to warn the U.S. public about the "climate crisis." "Mother nature is knocking on our door," said Gore, who delivered the keynote speech at an annual media gathering. Since losing his White House bid in that same state, Gore has been trying to reinvent himself as a media mogul and the chairman of Current TV, a network he launched to target the under-30 crowd. As part of his pitch to Madison Avenue, Gore called on the industry to publicize the dangers of global warming and he challenged it to match the forthcoming campaign "dollar for dollar." He said the members of the coalition, which would be revealed next month, would be making "significant ad buys" in each of the next three years, although he didn't provide a dollar amount. Gore, who also championed environmental issues when he was in office, portrayed global warming as a dire threat that was already wreaking havoc on a global scale. Armed with slides and statistics, he argued that increasing levels of carbon monoxide are raising the planet's temperature, causing glaciers and the polar ice caps to melt. He blamed the trend for record high temperatures and a growing number of violent storms - notably, the devastation Katrina wrought on New Orleans. Title: Re: Gore to launch anti-global warming ad campaign Post by: Janet on March 04, 2006, 01:29:43 AM Gore To Media Conference: Help Save Our Planet, Help Us Plan It http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleH omePage&art_aid=40513 (http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle HomePage&art_aid=40513) by Joe Mandese, Friday, Mar 3, 2006 8:00 AM EST ? ORLANDO - MADISON AVENUE HAS been called upon to launch new products, resuscitate ailing brands, turn corporations around, and even elect our nation's leaders. On Wednesday, one of those former leaders, Al Gore, beseeched a roomful of media buyers and planners to help with what undoubtedly is their greatest cause ever: saving our planet. During a keynote at the American Association of Advertising Agencies Media Conference and Trade Show here, the former vice president unveiled plans for a massive advertising collaborative of leading environmental and faith-based organizations to combat global warming, and asked the agency executives to match it "dollar for dollar" with pro bono contributions. "It is the most serious challenge that our civilization will experience," said Gore, cuing up a ten-minute video presentation showing the ravages of global warming on planet earth. Gore said the collaborative would kick off with public service ads from the Advertising Council in three weeks, which would be followed by a "large ad buy" breaking in mid-April. Gore, who ironically declined to speak with reporters at the conference following his presentation, implied the news media wasn't doing a good enough job of getting the message of global warming out to the American public, and that it was Madison Avenue's job to make up the gap. "We have to get this complicated information out to the American people. The news media simply does not work the way it used to. You know that better than any other industry," said Gore, adding that he and his wife, Tipper Gore, have pledged all the proceeds from two related media projects--a movie he is producing with Paramount Pictures, and a book being published by Rodale Press-- to the collaborative, to help pay for what he described as a "major advertising purchase over the next three years--a very significant buy." "Mother Nature is knocking on our door," he said, emphasizing the gravity of the situation, and the need for the ad industry's support. On a seemingly more prosaic note, Gore, who is also chairman of current affairs cable channel Current TV, said he has enjoyed becoming an "adjunct" member of the advertising and media community, and that he sympathized with the challenges faced by advertisers and media planners and buyers during "a period of unprecedented change for your industry." From cat64fish at yahoo.com Thu Mar 23 13:48:19 2006 From: cat64fish at yahoo.com (Jeffrey Low) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:48:19 +0800 (CST) Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list In-Reply-To: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90AC634CD@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> Message-ID: <20060323184820.18689.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Alina. I can't help but think that I should not be eating, or breathing very much, living in Asia (we do so love our seafood), and living along the coast. I also like to visit coral reef sites (who doesn't?). So what to do? Quite a dilemma ... which bears discussion and introspection. Cheers, Jeff --- "Szmant, Alina" wrote: > I'd like to add one real 'biggy' to the list: > > DON'T EAT REEF SPECIES, ESPECIALLY SPINY LOBSTER > > It's seafood demand that creates the incentive for > people to capture, at > any cost, and down to the last critter, reef fishes, > lobsters, octopi > etc. There is plenty of evidence, some only > conjectural I admit, about > the effects on 'reef health' of lop-sided coral reef > trophic webs with > no predators, and that includes the grazers, too, > which prey on smaller > critters. I was amazed after the furor about Bakers > Cay that there was > barely a peep about opening the Florida Keys lobster > fishery a month > early. > > The lobster fishermen in the Keys are trashing our > precious coral reefs > with their traps and lines, and I don't hear anyone > screaming about > that...only sewage! Why not???? > > After every hurricane or major storm, the reefs are > covered by trap > debris that stays there for years banging into the > corals. The thick > lines from the traps drag for 50 to 100 of feet and > get tangled into the > few remaining Acropora colonies, and all over > sponges and soft corals. > The lobster fishermen are not responsible for > recovering lost/broken > traps. They just go buy new ones and toss them out > there the following > year as close as they can to any unprotected > hard-bottom/coral reef and > out-lining the perimeters of the SPAs(Sanctuary > Preservation Areas... > no-take zones within the FKNMS). No wonder that the > traps end up inside > the SPAs after every storm. > > The modern seafood industry is amazing! And the > issue is not limited to > just local reef fisheries. Fishes (generically > including lobster, > octopus etc) caught off of Honduras, Martinique, > Guana Cay or any place > else in the world, end up in consolidation markets > in major ports (e.g. > Miami, San Francisco), and from their to major > re-packagers and > international seafood redistribution centers (e.g. > Kansas City) from > where they are shipped to local distributors for > sale to restaurants > (e.g. Chicago, Wilmington, La Parguera PR, Athens > Ga, Key Largo FL, > Nassau). So there's no way to know which desecrated > reef the snapper or > grouper you buy came from (i.e. one in your back > yard you are trying to > protect, or one in somebody else's back yard that > you are willing to > look the other way in order to enjoy a nice meal). > > David Doubilet, famous National Geographic UW > photographer, who is lucky > enough to travel and photograph the most remote and > 'pristine' of coral > reefs, was asked what the biggest change he had > observed in coral reefs > was (this was ca. 10 years ago), and he replied: No > big fishes or big > anything else. Thus it's not just near developments > that this is > happening, it's everywhere people can get with their > boats and GPS and > sonar fish finders...everywhere... Including where > the 15 commercial > fishing boats on Guana Cay catch their fishes. > > My suggestions for all of you out there who care > about the World's coral > reefs (and "World Peace", for those of you who are > Miss Congeniality > fans)do the following: > > 1) Never, ever again take a vacation to a coral > reef unless you have a > way to take home with you every scrap of material > (soda & beer bottles, > left over food, your personal waste products, > including used toilet > paper). > > 2) Convince all of your friends and neighbors from > taking reef > vacations, and protest at local travel agents that > sell people tours to > coral reef locations. > > 3) Never, EVER again eat a spiny lobster, grouper, > snapper or any other > reef dwelling predator, and complain vociferously if > you find them > listed on the menu any place you eat, or if anyone > else in your party > orders them in your presence. > > If everyone participated in this way, we could maybe > start to reverse > the health of coral reefs, all of which are > overfished compared to their > pre-modern condition. Even within no-take zones > there's plenty of > poaching,a nd by only trying to protect a few reef > areas against fishing > (20 % of US reefs is the goal of the US Coral Reef > Task Force) then you > condemn 80 % of the reefs of the world to have > dysfunctional trophic > dynamics (i.e. too much algae and sponges, and not > much of anything > else). > > OK, this is longer than I had hoped, but I am now > ready for the flaming > to begin. Jim H. advised me to drink some good PR > rum to fortify > myself, but rum is made from sugar cane and we all > know that sugar cane > uses a lot of fertilizer, and the run-off from the > sugar cane fields has > been damaging to coral reefs all over the Caribbean, > especially those > of my beloved Puerto Rico (in the past, very little > cane left in PR; now > it's sun coffee for all you coffee drinkers), so > I'll have to stick with > Diet Coke (until I can find the connection from that > to coral reefs). > > Alina Szmant > > > ******************************************************************* > Dr. Alina M. Szmant > Coral Reef Research Group > UNCW-Center for Marine Science > 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln > Wilmington NC 28409 > Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410 > Cell: (910)200-3913 > email: szmanta at uncw.edu > Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta > ****************************************************************** > > -----Original Message----- > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On > Behalf Of Jeffrey Low > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:51 AM > To: Phil Dustan; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency > Part 3: making a list > > Hi Phil, > > I collated some from the various emails on this > issue > ... mostly "personal" level stuff, though. Hope this > helps. > > Key actions - local actions for global response > > 1. Education > - educate the kids > - reach out (don't preach to the converted) > - identify a mascot species > - create realistic, entertaining shows > - educate developers / politicians > > 2. Reduce consumption > - reduce energy consumption (air conditioners, > lights, > electrical appliances) > - make recycling part of our life > - consume less > - buy local > - travel less > - use public transport, use the stairs, walk instead > of drive (for short distances) > > 3. Participate > - teach at a local school > - be active in NGOs > - blog about issues > - by creating websites on conservation issues > > --- Phil Dustan wrote: > > > Dear Listers, > > Now that we have exhausted all the rhetoric and > > have cleared our minds > > and consciences, might it be possible to translate > > our feelings into > > actions that could be accomplished at the scales > of > > Global, regional, > > and local? > > > > lease post your comments if you'd like to > contribute > > and I will work > > towards collating them...............Please try to > keep things > > short (and perhaps > > sweet). > > > > Here are a few possibilities: > > > > Global - > > US should sign the Kyoto Accord, > > Reduce generation of African Dust > > > > Regional in the Caribbean > > Large scale culture and release of Diadema > > antillarum > > Construct a basin-wide system of no-take MPAs > > > > Local: > > Larger no-take zones in the Florida Keys > National > > Marine Sanctuary > > Construction of sewer and septic systems in the > > Florida Keys that > > actually meet design criteria for removal of > > nutrients,BOD, and > > microbial contaminants > > Provide incentives to restore the terrestrial > > landscape to > > minimize loss of nutrients and sediments > > > > Thanks, > > Phil > > > > > > -- > > Phillip Dustan Ph.D. > > Department of Biology > > College of Charleston > > Charleston SC 29424 > > (843) 953-8086 voice > > (843) 953-5453 (Fax) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Coral-List mailing list > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles > and photos. > http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/ From sputron at bbsr.edu Thu Mar 23 14:36:14 2006 From: sputron at bbsr.edu (Samantha de Putron) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:36:14 -0400 Subject: [Coral-List] Summer course in coral reef ecology at the Bermuda Biological Station for Research Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060323152955.0386aae0@sargasso.bbsr.edu> Places are still available for this summer's coral reef ecology course at the Bermuda Biological Station for Research. Scholarship and financial aid available. Application deadline April 15th. Summer Course in Coral Reef Ecology The Bermuda Biological Station for Research is pleased to announce a course in Coral Reef Ecology. Course instructor: Dr. Samantha de Putron. Course dates: 9-29 July Location: Bermuda Qualifications: Open to undergraduates and graduate students with strong academic credentials. The course is open only to divers. Additional details: http://www.bbsr.edu/Education/summercourses/cre/cre.html Scholarship and financial aid available Course summary: The Coral Reef Ecology course at the Bermuda Biological Station for Research is comprised of lectures, required reading, laboratory exercises and field surveys. The lectures cover a broad range of relevant topics in coral reef ecology that are supplemented by readings from the primary literature with attention given to active areas of research. The course is divided into 24 lectures, 9 field trips (4 hours each), 5 lab sessions (4-5 hours each), 3 evening lab discussion sessions, a morning written exam, an afternoon of oral presentations and an afternoon discussion session/debate on a current topic. An additional 10-15 hours is taken to complete the working-group analyses and presentations. The course is aimed towards upper undergraduates and graduate students. The lab work is focused on training in practical techniques: ? separation of coral tissue from skeleton ? fractionation by centrifugation ? enumeration of zooxanthellae with a haemocytometer ? chlorophyll analysis ? determination of coral surface area ? coral growth determination using a buoyant weighing technique Various field techniques and subsequent lab analyses are used repetitively at different sites so that each student has the opportunity to become familiar with the following methods: ? video-taping of reef transects to assess community structure ? quantification of reef fish community structure using a visual census method ? quadrat sampling of reef algae, sorting, identification and dry weight biomass estimation ? quadrat sampling and measurement of juvenile corals to construct size/frequency curves ? quantification of parrotfish feeding rates and social interactions The laboratory and field work are synthesized as final oral presentations that are based on a typical format for presenting scientific results to an audience and so are designed to provide experience in communicating science. For further information please contact: Gerry Plumley at plumley at bbsr.edu or Samantha de Putron at sputron at bbsr.edu ----------------------------------------------------------- Dr Samantha de Putron Assistant Research Scientist Bermuda Biological Station for Research Ferry Reach St Georges GE 01, Bermuda Tel: (441) 297 1880 ext 261 Fax: (441) 297 8143 Web: www.bbsr.edu From Brylske at aol.com Thu Mar 23 15:07:46 2006 From: Brylske at aol.com (Brylske at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:07:46 EST Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Message-ID: <2cb.60e0e0b.31545a12@aol.com> In a message dated 3/23/06 1:19:48 PM, szmanta at uncw.edu writes: > 1)? Never, ever again take a vacation to a coral reef unless you have a > way to take home with you every scrap of material (soda & beer bottles, > left over food, your personal waste products, including used toilet > paper). > > 2)? Convince all of your friends and neighbors from taking reef > vacations, and protest at local travel agents that sell people tours to > coral reef locations. > Dr. Szmant: I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, and long ago heeded your clarion call about the loss of biodiversity on reefs. And I certainly admit that my opinion could be biased, having spent most of my adult life in the marine tourism industry. But I have to ask, if people stop visiting coral reefs, how can we build the constituency to protect them? I've always felt that Sylvia Earle was right on target when she asked, "How can we except people to love coral reefs who have never seen one?" Do you think that even an IMAX film can sufficiently convey the experience of being on a reef? Personally, I don't think so. But then again, I'm just a dump scuba instructor. I'm not at all trying to pick a fight here. It's just that opposition to tourism is a conservation strategy that I've never encountered before, and I'd like to hear more of what you and others think about this. Of course, the other issue is that tourism is now the largest industry on earth, and most of it takes place in or near the sea. So, this will be a real uphill battle. Alex F. Brylske, Ph.D. Training Manager The Coral Reef Alliance (CORAL) "Working together to keep coral reefs alive." please respond to: 3324 SW 8th Court Cape Coral, FL 33914 USA Tel: +239-281-1197 Fax: +281-664-9497 E-mail: abrylske at coral.org Web site: www.coral.org International Office: 417 Montgomery Street, Suite 205 San Francisco, CA? 94104 Tel:? (415) 834-0900 Fax:? (415) 834-0999 This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. From deevon at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 23 16:25:22 2006 From: deevon at bellsouth.net (DeeVon Quirolo) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:25:22 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list In-Reply-To: <44217A98.1040009@cofc.edu> References: <44217A98.1040009@cofc.edu> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060323162157.022b4888@bellsouth.net> Hi Phil---For my two cents, I'd add to the regional the following: clean up the agricultural runoff from the Everglades and Florida Bay that reaches the downstream coral reefs of Florida. And create a section for "federal" with: adopt and implement an energy policy that reduces fossil fuel emissions and its role in coral bleaching and disease, possibly by designating Elkhorn, Staghorn and Fused Staghorn to the Endangered Species Act (thus triggering federal review of actions that affect them). Best, DeeVon Quirolo, Reef Relief At 11:26 AM 3/22/2006, Phil Dustan wrote: >Dear Listers, > Now that we have exhausted all the > rhetoric and have cleared our minds >and consciences, might it be possible to translate our feelings into >actions that could be accomplished at the scales of Global, regional, >and local? > >lease post your comments if you?d like to contribute and I will work >towards collating them Please try to keep things short (and perhaps >sweet). > >Here are a few possibilities: > > Global - > US should sign the Kyoto Accord, > Reduce generation of African Dust > > Regional in the Caribbean > Large scale culture and release of Diadema antillarum > Construct a basin-wide system of no-take MPAs > > Local: > Larger no-take zones in the > Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary > Construction of sewer and > septic systems in the Florida Keys that >actually meet design criteria for removal >of nutrients,BOD, and >microbial contaminants > Provide incentives to restore > the terrestrial landscape to >minimize loss of nutrients and sediments > > Thanks, > Phil > > >-- >Phillip Dustan Ph.D. >Department of Biology >College of Charleston >Charleston SC 29424 >(843) 953-8086 voice >(843) 953-5453 (Fax) > > >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From kruer at 3rivers.net Thu Mar 23 13:50:36 2006 From: kruer at 3rivers.net (Curtis Kruer) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:50:36 -0700 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list References: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90AC634CD@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> Message-ID: <4422EDFC.9020200@3rivers.net> Alina, In this day and age aggressive, progressive approaches to resource management is exactly what's needed - both from a resource management and the advocacy standpoint. We've tried the other approach and the victories have been few and far between. And understanding "shifting baselines" is critical. A friend in the Keys recently reminded me that the place still looks great to newbies from New Jersey. AS: "The lobster fishermen in the Keys are trashing our precious coral reefs with their traps and lines, and I don't hear anyone screaming about that...only sewage! Why not???? "" In regard to the problem of traps and trap debris in the Keys I agree with you completely but disagree about no one screaming about it. How many copies of letters to the state and feds with data and information backing up the claims of scope and impact would you like? Agencies in the Keys are well aware of the magnitude of the problem with hundreds of thousands of traps and styro buoys predictably lost each year and hundreds of miles of non-degradable poly trap line left in the environment. The agencies heard from me loud and clear for many years and have chosen to do next to nothing other than some well publicized cleanups in highly visible areas of nearshore flats. Maybe Tom Mathews and John Hunt with the FWCC in the Keys could speak up and advise us what's being done to address the problem. The trap fishermen as we speak are asking for subsidies ($$ and an earlier, longer season) and are not being held responsible for their mess in Keys waters. The state has been concerned for a long time about the terrible inefficiency in this fishery and the widespread problem of ghost traps that continue to fish. NOAA determined years ago that traps left in one spot for more then a few weeks kill the seagrass under them (a 40 lb concrete slab forms the base of a typical trap). And, as you suggest, the problems is extremely obvious to all underwater in heavily trapped areas of the reef. This issue is a classic example of Keys agencies knowing what's happening and choosing to either not address it at all (like "sacrifice areas") or doing just enough to get by. If you want info about the problems of trap debris in the Keys just let me know. And with that I'm going to have a rum - I still drink it. Curtis Kruer Szmant, Alina wrote: > I'd like to add one real 'biggy' to the list: > > DON'T EAT REEF SPECIES, ESPECIALLY SPINY LOBSTER > > It's seafood demand that creates the incentive for people to capture, at > any cost, and down to the last critter, reef fishes, lobsters, octopi > etc. There is plenty of evidence, some only conjectural I admit, about > the effects on 'reef health' of lop-sided coral reef trophic webs with > no predators, and that includes the grazers, too, which prey on smaller > critters. I was amazed after the furor about Bakers Cay that there was > barely a peep about opening the Florida Keys lobster fishery a month > early. > > The lobster fishermen in the Keys are trashing our precious coral reefs > with their traps and lines, and I don't hear anyone screaming about > that...only sewage! Why not???? > > After every hurricane or major storm, the reefs are covered by trap > debris that stays there for years banging into the corals. The thick > lines from the traps drag for 50 to 100 of feet and get tangled into the > few remaining Acropora colonies, and all over sponges and soft corals. > The lobster fishermen are not responsible for recovering lost/broken > traps. They just go buy new ones and toss them out there the following > year as close as they can to any unprotected hard-bottom/coral reef and > out-lining the perimeters of the SPAs(Sanctuary Preservation Areas... > no-take zones within the FKNMS). No wonder that the traps end up inside > the SPAs after every storm. > > The modern seafood industry is amazing! And the issue is not limited to > just local reef fisheries. Fishes (generically including lobster, > octopus etc) caught off of Honduras, Martinique, Guana Cay or any place > else in the world, end up in consolidation markets in major ports (e.g. > Miami, San Francisco), and from their to major re-packagers and > international seafood redistribution centers (e.g. Kansas City) from > where they are shipped to local distributors for sale to restaurants > (e.g. Chicago, Wilmington, La Parguera PR, Athens Ga, Key Largo FL, > Nassau). So there's no way to know which desecrated reef the snapper or > grouper you buy came from (i.e. one in your back yard you are trying to > protect, or one in somebody else's back yard that you are willing to > look the other way in order to enjoy a nice meal). > > David Doubilet, famous National Geographic UW photographer, who is lucky > enough to travel and photograph the most remote and 'pristine' of coral > reefs, was asked what the biggest change he had observed in coral reefs > was (this was ca. 10 years ago), and he replied: No big fishes or big > anything else. Thus it's not just near developments that this is > happening, it's everywhere people can get with their boats and GPS and > sonar fish finders...everywhere... Including where the 15 commercial > fishing boats on Guana Cay catch their fishes. > > My suggestions for all of you out there who care about the World's coral > reefs (and "World Peace", for those of you who are Miss Congeniality > fans)do the following: > > 1) Never, ever again take a vacation to a coral reef unless you have a > way to take home with you every scrap of material (soda & beer bottles, > left over food, your personal waste products, including used toilet > paper). > > 2) Convince all of your friends and neighbors from taking reef > vacations, and protest at local travel agents that sell people tours to > coral reef locations. > > 3) Never, EVER again eat a spiny lobster, grouper, snapper or any other > reef dwelling predator, and complain vociferously if you find them > listed on the menu any place you eat, or if anyone else in your party > orders them in your presence. > > If everyone participated in this way, we could maybe start to reverse > the health of coral reefs, all of which are overfished compared to their > pre-modern condition. Even within no-take zones there's plenty of > poaching,a nd by only trying to protect a few reef areas against fishing > (20 % of US reefs is the goal of the US Coral Reef Task Force) then you > condemn 80 % of the reefs of the world to have dysfunctional trophic > dynamics (i.e. too much algae and sponges, and not much of anything > else). > > OK, this is longer than I had hoped, but I am now ready for the flaming > to begin. Jim H. advised me to drink some good PR rum to fortify > myself, but rum is made from sugar cane and we all know that sugar cane > uses a lot of fertilizer, and the run-off from the sugar cane fields has > been damaging to coral reefs all over the Caribbean, especially those > of my beloved Puerto Rico (in the past, very little cane left in PR; now > it's sun coffee for all you coffee drinkers), so I'll have to stick with > Diet Coke (until I can find the connection from that to coral reefs). > > Alina Szmant > > > ******************************************************************* > Dr. Alina M. Szmant > Coral Reef Research Group > UNCW-Center for Marine Science > 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln > Wilmington NC 28409 > Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410 > Cell: (910)200-3913 > email: szmanta at uncw.edu > Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta > ****************************************************************** > > -----Original Message----- > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Low > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:51 AM > To: Phil Dustan; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list > > Hi Phil, > > I collated some from the various emails on this issue > ... mostly "personal" level stuff, though. Hope this > helps. > > Key actions - local actions for global response > > 1. Education > - educate the kids > - reach out (don't preach to the converted) > - identify a mascot species > - create realistic, entertaining shows > - educate developers / politicians > > 2. Reduce consumption > - reduce energy consumption (air conditioners, lights, > electrical appliances) > - make recycling part of our life > - consume less > - buy local > - travel less > - use public transport, use the stairs, walk instead > of drive (for short distances) > > 3. Participate > - teach at a local school > - be active in NGOs > - blog about issues > - by creating websites on conservation issues > > --- Phil Dustan wrote: > > >>Dear Listers, >> Now that we have exhausted all the rhetoric and >>have cleared our minds >>and consciences, might it be possible to translate >>our feelings into >>actions that could be accomplished at the scales of >>Global, regional, >>and local? >> >>lease post your comments if you'd like to contribute >>and I will work >>towards collating them...............Please try to keep things >>short (and perhaps >>sweet). >> >>Here are a few possibilities: >> >> Global - >> US should sign the Kyoto Accord, >> Reduce generation of African Dust >> >> Regional in the Caribbean >> Large scale culture and release of Diadema >>antillarum >> Construct a basin-wide system of no-take MPAs >> >> Local: >> Larger no-take zones in the Florida Keys National >>Marine Sanctuary >> Construction of sewer and septic systems in the >>Florida Keys that >>actually meet design criteria for removal of >>nutrients,BOD, and >>microbial contaminants >> Provide incentives to restore the terrestrial >>landscape to >>minimize loss of nutrients and sediments >> >> Thanks, >> Phil >> >> >>-- >>Phillip Dustan Ph.D. >>Department of Biology >>College of Charleston >>Charleston SC 29424 >>(843) 953-8086 voice >>(843) 953-5453 (Fax) >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Coral-List mailing list >>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >> > > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos. > http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > From oveh at uq.edu.au Thu Mar 23 17:28:17 2006 From: oveh at uq.edu.au (Ove Hoegh-Guldberg) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:28:17 +1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060323110543.047fa8f8@marine.usf.edu> Message-ID: <200603232228.k2NMSN6o096668@smtp2.uq.edu.au> Wonderful news. Hooray for Billy! Ove Hoegh-Guldberg Professor and Director Centre for Marine Studies University of Queensland St Lucia 4072 QLD -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of John Ogden Sent: Friday, 24 March 2006 2:06 AM To: Coral List Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey, Ph.D. Hear ye, hear ye! Billy Causey, Superintendent of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, has been selected by USF to receive an Honorary Ph.D. in Marine Science at Commencement in May 2006. John C. Ogden, Director Florida Institute of Oceanography 830 First Street South St. Petersburg, FL 33701 USA Tel. 727-553-1100 Fax 727-553-1109 Http://www.marine.usf.edu/FIO/ http://www.cas.usf.edu/biology/Faculty/ogden.html _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From zennnnwoman at hotmail.com Thu Mar 23 15:49:20 2006 From: zennnnwoman at hotmail.com (megan berkle) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:49:20 +0000 Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey Message-ID: Hey Everyone: I have known Billy for many years. He has made many amazing contributions to protecting reefs in Florida and around the world. He is truly an inspiration to us all and this recognition is well deserved. Congratulations!! Megan Berkle Marine Sciene teacher Cooper City, Florida 33318 From chwkins at yahoo.com Thu Mar 23 18:32:01 2006 From: chwkins at yahoo.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:32:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list In-Reply-To: <20060323184820.18689.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060323233201.14089.qmail@web32814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All: I think there is some stimulating conversation emerging. This is one of the great things about the List, in my opinion. I may not be into everything coming down the pipe, but I like to hear about what is going on in coral reef research and management that differs from what I am working on. Two strings of thought: 1. Regarding the remnancy vs. resiliency vs. no remnancy or resiliency exchange, the items being placed on Phil's "list" in the past couple of days have little do directly with that topic. Some good and passionate comments, though. Let me offer some of my own about resilience. First, much of what I have read here has been rather negative and has been from a more academic standpoint. Gregor stated that prospects for applications of resilience are "nil". I can't help but wonder if we are approaching the concept from vastly different viewpoints or understanding. I say this because as a recent manager-type in the South Pacific, and having attended a resilience workshop in Palau, I can absolutely see potential practical applications of what I learned and observed. For example, published research is forthcoming about a stand of corals that seems to do better than surrounding areas when threshold temperatures are exceeded. There is also ongoing research regarding micosporine-like amino acids, and if there differences in the levels of this "sunscreen" between species. The application for both of these to management is to protect these potentially special places in case of mass mortality elsewhere. The representative areas portion of the resiliency concept also seemed to hold promise for conservation activities. On the high islands where I worked last, there were areas of fairly constant wave action, areas that are shaded most of the day, and areas in the middle of upwelling. All places to be considered for inclusion when designing a system of MPAs. Now, debate may be centered on whether or not this is resilience. For example, my neighbor, the redheaded Irishman, might not fair so well under the hot equatorial sun. He would, arguably, do much better under a tree. Is he now a resilient person? No, he hasn't really changed. But then the extrinsic nature of the resiliency concept says that he won't die of skin cancer if he stays under that tree, and hence will be able to (or at least in a position to!) pass along on his genetics. Owing to not being dead. Most of the people I am know who are doing work on resiliency, and it is being done in a variety of locales-especially in the Pacific, haven't responded to this debate, probably because they are busy doing something else: undertaking and trying to publish research. 2. Regarding Alina's comments: I like to remember a quote that begins the Kennedy and Thomas Model of resource management: " 'Everything is' is one extreme. 'Nothing is' is another. Between these two I teach the truth of interdependent origination."--The Buddha. (Kennedy and Thomas, 1995). Now, I may not be a practicing Buddha, but I do know that managing from an extreme is not going to fly, and that telling people wholesale that they cannot go to a reef or cannot eat seafood (I know, Alina's comments were stated in a way to challenge ourselves) are non-starters. That's why it is called resource management and not resource dictatorship. Fortunately or un, most of us live in democracies. And we have to keep working at our science, our message, and our management approaches. The easy way out is to put up a sign and that says, "Sorry folks, ocean's closed". Best, Chris _________ Ph.D. Student in Human Dimensions of Marine and Coastal Ecosystems Department of Natural Resources Conservation University of Massachusetts, 160 Holdsworth Way Amherst, MA 01003 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Mar 23 20:08:17 2006 From: riskmj at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Michael Risk) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:08:17 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list In-Reply-To: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90AC634CD@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> Message-ID: Hi Alina. Thank you for that passionate and pointed plea. I agree with much of what you say. It is a depressing fact, however, that the global subsidies paid to the world's fishing fleets exceed the value of the global landed catch. Think of the money that would be saved if everyone stopped fishing...but that won't happen. If the US (to take one example) subsidizes cotton-farmers in the SE so heavily that small farmers in Nilotic Africa cannot compete, then this will be a tough nut to crack. I do not think the reefs of Florida will come back if lobster fishing stops. March Break time has passed, but one thing I used to tell my students is: "by all means, go south somewhere, do all those things we did when we were your age-but safely, which we never did. Before you book, ask the hotel how they treat their sewage. If you are not happy with the answer, cancel, tell them why, and go elsewhere." There is a thread running through this thread (sorry), one on which Dr. Brylske has put his finger. There are reefs in the First World that have been loved to death: there are reefs in the Third World which will be saved only through tourism. The only way to get local populations to cease destructive utilisation of reef resources is to provide alternative sources of income, and tourism is one of the best. Mike From szmanta at uncw.edu Thu Mar 23 18:57:20 2006 From: szmanta at uncw.edu (Szmant, Alina) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:57:20 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Message-ID: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90AC636B4@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> >From message below "But I have to ask, if people stop visiting coral reefs, how can we build the constituency to protect them? " Aah! That IS the problem. We all love coral reefs and some want to live as near them as possible. Few of us can unless we are really poor and have nowhere else to go (e.g. third world people who by necessity over exploit the resources to stay alive), and then there's us first world folks. Some of us can't afford to go there often but we go as frequently as we can save up for a brief vacation (but there has to be the infra-structure to support these brief visits), and some of us are really rich and want to have our own place to be able to visit whenever we want. But we all place a demand on these systems, whether rich or poor: the airplanes and boats that get us there, the exhaust from these vehicles; the land development that takes place to accommodate and entertain us(unless we sleep on the beach in a sleeping bag and tent); the restaurants that feed up; the local populations that take care of the facilities that house us, and all the things they need to reside there. It goes on and on... the teachers for the children of the people that live there and work in hotels, restaurants, dive centers etc; the nurses, dentists and doctors for the residents and teachers; the grocery store owners.... Where does it all stop? Are we to state that only poor and mid-income people can live on or visit coral reefs? My message was a sarcastic and cynical response to the on-and-on Guana Cay discussion, where there were some obvious self-serving messages and diatribes by people who want to save the reef for themselves (or their special friends) while continuing to exploit (e.g. fish it)and live there themselves (with all their daily waste production, etc). There is a lot of hypocrisy going around, not necessarily intentional or even recognized by the people exercising it. Just because somebody gets there first, does that give them the right to keep others out? That has been tested in courts all over the world, and the democratic reply has been no. The dilemma is that we all love those pristine "nobody has been here before me" vistas and remote islands, and so we want to protect them for the future (so we can go back again, or take our children to see them, right?). But that rapidly goes down hill after the first few thousand (or million) humans have tromped through the area. My message was intended to provoke a different kind of introspective debate. The only way to fix the problem is for there to be fewer humans, and for fewer humans to live or visit the sensitive areas: how are we going to manage that (globally)? Who decides who gets to go there and in what kind of style? Right now the practical answer is money. If you are rich enough to afford to go there, then you get to pay to stay in an expensive resort (and expensive does not necessarily mean fancy...some of the more remote and eco-touristy places are pretty pricey). Or you are really poor (e.g. folks in coastal areas of the Philippines) and you have nowhere else to go. So now I'm repeating myself and I will stop. But the part about not eating reef predators was for real... ******************************************************************* Dr. Alina M. Szmant Coral Reef Research Group UNCW-Center for Marine Science 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln Wilmington NC 28409 Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410 Cell: (910)200-3913 email: szmanta at uncw.edu Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta ****************************************************************** Dr. Szmant: I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, and long ago heeded your clarion call about the loss of biodiversity on reefs. And I certainly admit that my opinion could be biased, having spent most of my adult life in the marine tourism industry. But I have to ask, if people stop visiting coral reefs, how can we build the constituency to protect them? I've always felt that Sylvia Earle was right on target when she asked, "How can we except people to love coral reefs who have never seen one?" Do you think that even an IMAX film can sufficiently convey the experience of being on a reef? Personally, I don't think so. But then again, I'm just a dump scuba instructor. I'm not at all trying to pick a fight here. It's just that opposition to tourism is a conservation strategy that I've never encountered before, and I'd like to hear more of what you and others think about this. Of course, the other issue is that tourism is now the largest industry on earth, and most of it takes place in or near the sea. So, this will be a real uphill battle. Alex F. Brylske, Ph.D. Training Manager The Coral Reef Alliance (CORAL) "Working together to keep coral reefs alive." please respond to: 3324 SW 8th Court Cape Coral, FL 33914 USA Tel: +239-281-1197 Fax: +281-664-9497 E-mail: abrylske at coral.org Web site: www.coral.org International Office: 417 Montgomery Street, Suite 205 San Francisco, CA? 94104 Tel:? (415) 834-0900 Fax:? (415) 834-0999 This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From tshannon at uga.edu Thu Mar 23 20:42:38 2006 From: tshannon at uga.edu (Tom Shannon) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:42:38 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Message-ID: Alina and others, As a relative neophyte to this amazing world of reef-based science, perhaps it is not my place to jump into this discussion, but there appears to be several oversights in your suggestion... and allow me to preface my comments by claiming, as others have, that I completely respect your intelectual prowess and academic merits within this field... no sense in burning bridges before I even get a chance to cross them :) With that said: 1. We, as scientists, are but a small group within the world community, and are privy to far more data concerning the direct and indirect dangers to reef health and survival than the rest of the world will ever know or care to know. We have provided the world with many unfavorable diagnoses in the past and have had to argue our points to the sometimes incensed public that they should trust our judgements, alter their livelyhoods, reformat their lifestyles and pay more taxes for the honor while they're at it. In short, a majority of folk (my own observation and opinion) in this world don't exactly trust our little community and already view us as ultra-liberal, anti-conservative, God-hatin', meddlesome, know-it-all brocolli-lovers whose prime objective is the ultimate subversion and censorship of all they hold true and enjoy... okay, so that's the conspiracy-theory minority of the majority... anyhow... In the same way that many well-meaning activists have ultimately undermined the desired impact of their message by staging spectacles that succeed only in irking the general public, what message will we be sending to the wary, non-science world by telling them they're bad people for taking their family on a vacation to Curacao so the kids can finally get out of creationist-country and see something natural besides corn and tornadoes? How will we continue to gain the respect and trust of people by interupting their Lent-season, friday night restaurant date and telling them they really should have had some Mrs. Pauls reconstituted fishsticks instead of ordering that delicious, blackened red-snapper with steamed asparagus hollandaise and cajun potatoes? In this particular situation, I think that public protest and similar activist episodes would actually be detrimental to our being taken seriously. There is no quick fix to this problem since the only viable route, as I see it, is eductaion... and that takes time, not show-boating. 2. As a person who has received government monies, I am more than aware that the way to the heart of a grant committee member is through not only good science but giving them a project that can be offered to the gods to be shown to the flocks such that the gods will be exalted. The gods, of course, is congress, the flock is their constituency. Who among us has successfully received a government grant for reef studies WITHOUT stressing the economic value of healthy reefs and the millions of tourist dollars they generate? In blocking tourism, we take away a REALLY big chunk of the justification congress knows they can take to their constituents without being tarred and feathered. Without that justification, FAR less reef grants will be granted, and the reaserch necessary to help the reefs will suffer severe under-funding. As for me, I like scotch... single malt. Cheers, Tom Tom Shannon Institute of Ecology University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 Lab(706)542-3328 www.arches.uga.edu/~tshannon Evolution IS "just a theory". Creationism, however, is an unsubstantiated hypothesis. From selena.medrano at gmail.com Thu Mar 23 21:04:21 2006 From: selena.medrano at gmail.com (Selena Medrano) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:04:21 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Could Restricting Access to Reefs Be Counterproductive? Message-ID: I must say that I agree with Alex. Coral reefs are not the "charismatic macrofauna" that dolphins, tigers, and wolves are. Unless we show people their magnificence, how will they know? People have no reason to care about these things in the ocean unless those of us who know something about coral reefs share our knowledge. I think the goal should be to take your friends on a reef vacation to teach them about reefs. Begin by explaining why your friends must not touch the coral. Describe how long it takes a colony to grow, why reefs are important to the ecosystem, and explain that corals are sensitive to temperature changes and nutrients. Take a slate and pencil on a dive or snorkel trip and point to and identify critters that live in/on/around the reef. Maybe this will get more people excited about and behind our goals of conservation and protection of the reefs. While some reefs may need restricted access to improve local infrastructures or to protect seed banks, restricting visitor access to all reefs would greatly hinder the learning process. There are responsible dive shops in the Keys and around the globe; a little research on the vacationers' part will cover that issue. As always, set an example. Thanks, Selena From dfenner at blueskynet.as Fri Mar 24 02:46:08 2006 From: dfenner at blueskynet.as (Douglas Fenner) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:46:08 -1100 Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list References: Message-ID: <011b01c64f17$03ac1850$127f46ca@DOUGLASFENNER> The global subsidies that exceed the value of the world's fish catch come from governments, who get their money from taxes from their citizens. The citizens are forced to pay fishermen to do fishing that would otherwise be uneconomical, and help destroy the world's fish stocks. That is called a "perverse subsidy." Meyers N (1998) Lifting the veil on perverse subsidies. Nature 392: 327-328 -Doug From Dixon.Waruinge at unep.org Fri Mar 24 01:10:52 2006 From: Dixon.Waruinge at unep.org (Dixon Waruinge) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:10:52 +0300 Subject: [Coral-List] Billy Causey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Billy?s work has impacted far and wide From Eastern Africa, it is hats off for Billy This is wonderful news for a deserving champion. From lesk at bu.edu Fri Mar 24 08:57:56 2006 From: lesk at bu.edu (lesk at bu.edu) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:57:56 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Dr. Billy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060324085756.c8pil822skoocsg8@www.bu.edu> FOR BILLY: Never so deserved nor long awaited, Fishes long aligned, their breathing bated Spelling out the name we hold enshrined Now how am I going to make this damned thing rhyme. Congratulations BILLY! Considerably more than honorary! Les From lesk at bu.edu Fri Mar 24 09:33:56 2006 From: lesk at bu.edu (lesk at bu.edu) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:33:56 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Proposed: "Until We Know Better" campaign for coral reefs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060324093356.2298u6pxk40wsgk8@www.bu.edu> I think we should follow through on Alina's consumer-side suggestions, just think them through a bit more. Until we can think of a better name, I propose that we call this the "Until We Know Better" campaign. The point of this name is to reverse the burden of proof, as long ago suggested by Paul Dayton. Until we know better, we should not eat any spiny lobster or large reef predators. Until we know better, we should do everything in our power to allow populations of these species to rebuild themselves. Until we know better, we should designate limited areas of coral reef or other tropical marine habitat, for use and destruction. This is a better idea- more easily enforced and more likely to work- than designating limited areas of coral reef for protection. There is no theoretical minimum area for an area designated to be over-used and destroyed. It can be as small as you like. However, there is a definite minimum area for protection to be effective. We do not really know what this minimum is, except that it is obviously much larger than most of our existing protected areas, because they are nearly all degrading. So, until we know better, let's gazette areas for destruction instead of restoration, and let the undestroyed areas restore themselves. MPA scientists have often arrived at a figure of about 20% of the seabottom as a minimum area for a global network of marine reserves. That is a good-sounding number. Let's say instead, that 20% of the seabottom be designated for sustainable use. Until we know better, let us take at face value the evidence that human activities are changing the atmosphere and climate in ways that threaten coral reefs. Until we know better, let's do everything possible to resist these changes. I wonder if SeaWeb might be up to the dare of taking on this campaign? The obvious challenge is to recommend positive steps to alleviate the hunger and desparation that such a position will cause. It made no sense for northwest Pacific coast loggers in the US to keep logging old growth forest, knowing full well that it would run out. We need grease, lots of it, to slide people over to other ways of doing and being. However, the logic of "Until We Know Better" is unassailable. It has worked for primitive societies for millenia. Our increased destructive potential notwithstanding, we are still a quite primitive society. Les From Susan_White at fws.gov Fri Mar 24 10:48:45 2006 From: Susan_White at fws.gov (Susan_White at fws.gov) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:48:45 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Proposed: "Until We Know Better" campaign for coral reefs In-Reply-To: <20060324093356.2298u6pxk40wsgk8@www.bu.edu> Message-ID: As we advocate for any campaign, let us also lend truth to advertising. I propose that we require that use of any and all photographs for coral reefs (be it advertising, publications, journals, education, etc.) have the date the image was taken imbedded in the bottom right corner. Using old pictures of healthy reefs to describe the ecosystem is no longer valid for many of our reefs. ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> Susan White Deputy Refuge Supervisor - Florida Southeast Regional Office U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 1875 Century Blvd. Suite 420 Atlanta, GA 30345 ph: 404-679-7224 fx: 404-679-4082 cell: 239-209-1976 email: susan_white at fws.gov http://www.fws.gov/southeast ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> lesk at bu.edu Sent by: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov 03/24/2006 09:33 AM To coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov cc Subject [Coral-List] Proposed: "Until We Know Better" campaign for coral reefs I think we should follow through on Alina's consumer-side suggestions, just think them through a bit more. Until we can think of a better name, I propose that we call this the "Until We Know Better" campaign. The point of this name is to reverse the burden of proof, as long ago suggested by Paul Dayton. Until we know better, we should not eat any spiny lobster or large reef predators. Until we know better, we should do everything in our power to allow populations of these species to rebuild themselves. Until we know better, we should designate limited areas of coral reef or other tropical marine habitat, for use and destruction. This is a better idea- more easily enforced and more likely to work- than designating limited areas of coral reef for protection. There is no theoretical minimum area for an area designated to be over-used and destroyed. It can be as small as you like. However, there is a definite minimum area for protection to be effective. We do not really know what this minimum is, except that it is obviously much larger than most of our existing protected areas, because they are nearly all degrading. So, until we know better, let's gazette areas for destruction instead of restoration, and let the undestroyed areas restore themselves. MPA scientists have often arrived at a figure of about 20% of the seabottom as a minimum area for a global network of marine reserves. That is a good-sounding number. Let's say instead, that 20% of the seabottom be designated for sustainable use. Until we know better, let us take at face value the evidence that human activities are changing the atmosphere and climate in ways that threaten coral reefs. Until we know better, let's do everything possible to resist these changes. I wonder if SeaWeb might be up to the dare of taking on this campaign? The obvious challenge is to recommend positive steps to alleviate the hunger and desparation that such a position will cause. It made no sense for northwest Pacific coast loggers in the US to keep logging old growth forest, knowing full well that it would run out. We need grease, lots of it, to slide people over to other ways of doing and being. However, the logic of "Until We Know Better" is unassailable. It has worked for primitive societies for millenia. Our increased destructive potential notwithstanding, we are still a quite primitive society. Les _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From mekvinga at yahoo.com Fri Mar 24 10:51:35 2006 From: mekvinga at yahoo.com (Melissa Keyes) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:51:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Saving reefs and the wild places Message-ID: <20060324155135.91716.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Dr. Szmant, and Listers, "...we all love those pristine "nobody has been here before me" vistas and remote islands, and so we want to protect them for the future." I must defer. Here on St. Croix, a smallish island with a population of 55,000, we are having two "camps". One, the "Let's keep it the way it is" people, and the other the devlopers. The local environmental association has been able to block almost all large resort property developement. For some odd reason, the developers want to go in and fence us out of the most beautiful beaches and bays here that we love, and bring in hundreds or thousands of visitors who seem to want something very different than a beautiful beach, and pristine corals. Tourists cry, "What are we going to do?" and, "What are we going to do next?". They cannot seem to relax. Diving a pleasant coral reef is boring without Sharks! and Dolphins! and Manta Rays! They seem to require nonstop entertainment. There was a meeting last week that had a theme of, "Can't we compromise?" Few attended, as the "Disney World" types look at a beautiful mountain and sea vista and believe there is nothing there. I was amazed to learn this only recently. Nothing there. Sometimes it seems humans are just two polarized groups, with no possible middle ground for everyone. Cheers, Melissa Keyes St. Croix, US Virgin Islands --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Fri Mar 24 12:19:34 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:19:34 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] NEW anti-global warming ad campaign In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44242A26.2060407@noaa.gov> Maybe Al Gore, or his side-kick, Bill Clinton, can be our voices of concern to the public! Anybody having lunch with good ol' Bill this week? He's helped coral reefs in the past, maybe he'll continue to carry the torch. Wouldn't hurt to ask, I reckon... Dr. Stephen Jameson wrote: >Dear Coral-List, > >See press releases below. >... etc. ... > > >March 02, 2006, 11:59:22 PM > > >Title: Gore to launch anti-global warming ad campaign > >(AdWeek) - Former vice president Al Gore launched his keynote address at the >American Association of Advertising Agencies' Media Conference here this >morning by promising not to do a commercial for his new cable network, >Current TV. ...[etc.]... > > From Brylske at aol.com Fri Mar 24 12:23:51 2006 From: Brylske at aol.com (Brylske at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:23:51 EST Subject: [Coral-List] Saving reefs and the wild places Message-ID: <22c.8e52ee7.31558527@aol.com> In a message dated 3/24/06 11:57:06 AM, mekvinga at yahoo.com writes: > ? Tourists cry, "What are we going to do?"? and, "What are we going to do > next?". They cannot seem to relax.? Diving a pleasant coral reef is boring? > without Sharks! and Dolphins! and Manta Rays!? They seem to require nonstop > entertainment.? > ?? > ? There was a meeting last week that had a theme of, "Can't we compromise?"? > Few attended, as the "Disney World" types look at a beautiful mountain and > sea vista and believe there is nothing there.? I was amazed to learn this only > recently.? Nothing there > Melissa: You point out an important and growing problem in reef tourism. With the broadening demographic of who's becoming a diver has come this issue of "boredom" (something I never thought I'd hear). The answer to it lies in the interpretive skills of the dive guide. The problem is that many operators?whose legitimate first concern is keeping their doors open?just don't understand that they have to train their staff to do a better job as both guides and conservation ambassadors. Once they see that the more their employees know and can communicate the real drama of any coral reef, the happier their customer will be, and more likely they'll return next year. It's a snowball effect: The more engaged and committed the customer becomes, the more likely they'll want to return, and the more likely these "occasional divers" will become coral reef advocates. But this doesn't happen without guidance, and guides have to be trained. Frankly, speaking as someone with a foot in both worlds of tourism and marine conservation, the answer is simple. We have the programming to train them. We just have to get tourism professionals to start asking the right questions. However, what's also interesting is the exact opposite problem: Folks going to a barren wasteland of algal covered hard bottom and thinking it was the greatest dive in the world. Talk about a shifted baseline; if they only knew. I'd better shut up before this gets too long. It's a real soapbox issue to me. Alex F. Brylske, Ph.D. Training Manager The Coral Reef Alliance (CORAL) "Working together to keep coral reefs alive." please respond to: 3324 SW 8th Court Cape Coral, FL 33914 USA Tel: +239-281-1197 Fax: +281-664-9497 E-mail: abrylske at coral.org Web site: www.coral.org International Office: 417 Montgomery Street, Suite 205 San Francisco, CA? 94104 Tel:? (415) 834-0900 Fax:? (415) 834-0999 This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly forbidden. From martin_moe at yahoo.com Fri Mar 24 14:52:15 2006 From: martin_moe at yahoo.com (Martin Moe) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:52:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list Message-ID: <20060324195215.17032.qmail@web60016.mail.yahoo.com> All, Alina?s post, although a bit strident, was right on. But it isn?t going to work. Let?s face it, creating educational material and appealing to science, reason, conscience, love and respect for natural systems, effective enforcement of existing conservation and environmental law, and even graphic depiction of the inevitable catastrophic results of our current attitudes and policies; is not going to change the way the vast majority of people, first world, second world, or third world, personally interact with their environment. The factors of personal economics (primarily), greed, corruption, cultural superstitions, religion, and ignorance will trump science and reason almost every time. It is good and very important, to think and act with an environmental conscience, and to urge others to do so as well, and this will have an impact, but it is just a ripple in a pond. Actual or perceived economic interests will almost always drive or at least affect environmental law. This is a given in our society, and our method of creating environmental law is flawed. Garrett Hardin said it all in 1968 when he coined the phrase, ?Tragedy of the Commons?, or in essence, ?Freedom in a commons brings ruin to all.? The fisherman?s response to declines in the resource is almost always new territory, bigger gear, and/or more traps. And unfortunately a commons regulated by the exploiters is not a whole lot better than just plain freedom. The history of commercial fishing, recreational fishing, and tourism development is blunt testimony to Hardin?s insight. Now there are good commercial fishermen, fishermen that are very concerned about the state of the resource and that work hard to help regulate a sustainable fishery. But fishermen are fiercely independent, hard working, and strong willed people who resent, to a greater or lesser degree, anyone, average citizens or educated desk jockeys, that try to meddle in the business that they, and their fathers and grandfathers, have carved from the sea and are convinced that they ?know better than any else? how to manage ?their? resource. Often many will give lip service to the pronouncements of scientific regulators and then resent and ignore as much as possible the regulations that are established to protect the resource and, concomitantly, the future of their fishery. Take the Florida lobster fishery for example. For some time I have been trying to create interest in developing a research project on use of a den trap in the Florida fishery. A den trap basically gives spiny lobsters a refuge similar to a natural den during the day, but allows the lobsters to egress at night to forage and eventually migrate. This is not a new concept; this type of device was used many years ago at the beginning of the fishery. It consisted of an ?ice can?, a large metal container open at one end that was used to freeze water to produce ice. When these cans were discarded, fishermen would compress the opening to make it smaller, attach a rope and buoy and harvest it as appropriate. But lobsters were not contained as they are in the modern trap. As the fishery expanded, a more efficient method of harvest was needed. But, now there are many potential advantages to the resource and eventually to the fishery if a den trap design is proven effective. 1. Traps lost from buoy cutoffs and traps lost in storms or abandoned after the season become ghost traps and kill lobster for up to a year if they are not found and disabled or removed from the water. A den trap, if lost, would become habitat during the time before disintegration and would enhance rather then destroy the future of the fishery. There would be no loss of lobster or other marine species due to death in a ghost trap and this would preserve perhaps as many as 400,000 lobsters per year for the fishery and the environment. 2. Juvenile or ?short? lobsters are used as attractants (bait) in confinement traps and 1 to 3 million may die each year due to this practice. It is also possible that the legal use of shorts for this purpose may facilitate the illegal trade in juvenile lobsters. Use of den traps would eliminate this practice completely and make any possession of short lobsters illegal. This would preserve up to 2.5 million lobsters a year for the future of the fishery. 3. Poaching is a serious problem in the fishery, the most serious problem according to many lobster fishermen. Use of den traps throughout the fishery would eliminate any poaching that was conducted during night time hours 4. Lobsters, large and small, have an important function in the environment. The rock base beneath the sediments in Florida Bay contains many solution holes and cracks and crevices. These hard bottom habitats are cleared of sediments by lobsters and groupers, which provides hard bottom area for many other animals, including sponges, corals and juvenile lobsters and fish. Substantially increasing the numbers of juvenile lobsters in this environment will enhance creation and maintenance of exposed hard bottom, which in turn will enhance lobster and fish populations. Large lobsters on the offshore reefs feed on some organisms that feed on corals. Increasing the numbers of large lobsters on offshore reef areas may, to some degree, enhance the condition of the reefs and provide more breeding adult lobsters to enhance reproduction of the species. A responsible fishery does not eliminate the breeding stock even if recruitment is largely from other areas. Use of den traps throughout the fishery would strengthen natural lobster populations and enhance the effect of these populations in the environment through elimination of loss of trapped lobsters and through the freedom of lobsters up to the day of capture. The survival of additional lobsters in the population, combined with the establishment of refugia and research only areas should increase the numbers of adult breeding lobsters. 4. Trap loss and destruction during storms creates ?trap trash? that fouls grass flats, beaches and mangroves areas after storms. It is possible that the lower profile of a den trap and perhaps the increased weight to volume area will keep the trap a bit more stationary during weather events thus decreasing trap loss and diminishing accumulations of trap trash in the environment. 5. Other benefits of the den trap should include better condition of the lobsters taken in the fishery and in increase in the CPUE (catch per unit of effort) over that of the standard, top entry, confinement trap. Since lobsters are free to enter and leave the den trap they will not suffer from starvation and loss of condition in the trap. And since their condition will not decline with capture time in the trap, occurrence of disease will decrease, weight will remain normal, and better product will be delivered to market. The easy entrance to a den trap may increase the catch of lobster per trap (CPUE), when the number of traps is reduced to proper levels. Also, elimination of the practice of using juvenile lobster as attractants (bait) in lobster traps may reduce the occurrence of a recently discovered lobster virus that is lethal to juvenile lobsters by eliminating the collection and transport of juvenile lobsters to areas where traps are set. I thought that this concept was worthy of at least a research project to determine if den traps might be useful and helpful to the future of the spiny lobster fishery. The response of the fishery was almost universally negative; in fact I was called an ignorant ?orifice that passes bodily waste? on public radio after I sent a letter to the editor of a local newspaper suggesting such a research project. A grant was also submitted by John Hunt to conduct a research project but this was not funded. Maybe the FWC will take another look at the possiblilities at a future time. We are a free society, and this must be preserved, but as our numbers increase (and it seems that they will), we have to find ways that will preserve the environment and our natural resources. It is not easy to make changes that will protect the reefs, but we must try, and I think that economics is the only key that will work to make significant change. There are three things that can be done. Continue to use the best possible science to educate, regulate and enforce environmental and conservation issues. Reduce exploitation of sensitive natural resources. Mitigate the economic hardships that may be created by the reduction of exploitation to levels that will protect the environment and sustain the populations of fish and invertebrates. This could be done through economic means. Place a large environmental tax on the production of fishery products (and perhaps even non-consumptive use of natural resources) that would be adequate to fund research, education, enforcement, and even subsidize existing fisheries up the point that the participants in the fishery are equal to the allowable harvest and the new market structure. The resulting high price of some fishery products would then reduce demand for wild caught organisms, increase demand for aquacultured products (OK, this has its own constellation of problems), and ease the transition of the existing fisheries from high production at low prices to low production at high prices. The tax would come after the sale of the product so that increased price would not drive increased production. Easier said than done, of course, many political and economic stumbling blocks, but perhaps easier to accomplish than trying to educate and motivate millions of people concerned primarily with their own economic welfare, cultural norms, and entertainment requirements to change to a more environmentally conservative lifestyle. Martin Moe From j_urich at yahoo.com Fri Mar 24 16:59:51 2006 From: j_urich at yahoo.com (Juan F Urich) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:59:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Alina´s & Susan´s proposal and Lesk comments Message-ID: <20060324215951.27548.qmail@web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I feel that Alina?s and Susan Proposal as well as Lesk comments: Essentially based consumer rational power and enforcerment, Is what can keep us away from Huxleys Brave New World. I am not current with mayor diving magazines Skin Diver, Mondo Sommerso and so on but I wonder If they would buy in as to having a section on coral reef destruction and perhaps more: advertising "Destroyed Coral Reef dive tours". as some sort of negative feed back on destruction. After all, the trend seem to be that in less than a life time many of this Tourism and advertising industry could be out of business because the positive feedback that is likely to be occuring The more destroyed reefs the higher the diving pressure on healthy ones (a Coral reef tragedy of the commons?)" with developers and Policy makers favoring the short term development vision. Regards to all Juan F Urich --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. From jmichel at researchplanning.com Sat Mar 25 15:57:01 2006 From: jmichel at researchplanning.com (Jacqui Michel) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 15:57:01 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] rapid assessment protocols for vessel groundings Message-ID: I am looking for example protocols for use in rapid assessment of damage to corals and hardbottom habitats from vessel groundings. The need is to have emergency response protocols that can be implemented by local field staff to collect initial data on the extent and degree of damage to benthic habitats. Would appreciate suggestions and lessons learned. Thanks! -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jacqueline Michel, Ph.D. President Research Planning, Inc. P. O. Box 328, Columbia, SC 29202 Street Address is 1121 Park Street (Zip code is 29201) (P) 803-256-7322 x 329; Fax: 803-254-6445; (cell) 803-513-5650 Visit us! http://www.researchplanning.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From reefball at reefball.com Sun Mar 26 14:50:29 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:50:29 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Turtle Islands (Selingaan, Bakkungaan & Gulisaan)- I have questions for the list. References: <20060324195215.17032.qmail@web60016.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <020301c6510e$89025020$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hello All, Our field work in the Turtle Islands is completed and the findings are worse than expected. All three islands are eroding away at an accelerating pace that has gotten especially bad since 1996. The explaination is fairly simple...the coral reef is dying or has been killed. These islands are basically coral reef sands with humus from plant life perched on sandstone or volcanic rock and the sole source of sand is from the reef (the local sand is composed of coral, shelled marine life, coraline algae with a small amount of terrestrial sand on Bakkungaan due to volcanic action. Note: Bakkungaan is the exception to this basic description as the core is mostly volcanic mud not sand). The last 30 years has seen dynamite fishing, huge amounts of excessive sedimentation due to coastal changes in Sandakan, intensive fishing, excessive plastics in the water and the usual human pollution factors. Our working hypothesis, therefore, is that sand is being lost over the edge of the atoll faster than bio-erosion produces sand due to loss of the reef. Therefore, any form of coastal protection for these islands is, at best, only a short term band-aid fix to a greater problem. Large scale coral reef rehabilitation is the only long term solution if our hypothesis is correct. The concern here is that these three islands are major turtle nesting sites. Each island is litteraly covered with turtle tracks and nests and there are hundreds (often thousands) of eggs laid each night. (And there is important historical and cultural value to these important islands managed by Sabah National Parks). To get to my questions for the group's scientists and perhaps anyone that has visited these islands. 1) Does anyone have any good data from this region on the productivity of the coral reef in terms of sand production (I.E. X square meters of healthy reef yields X amount of sand per year). If so, please reply on-list. 2) Does anyone have any historical aerial photos of these islands (other than the professional images from the government). (Even good photos, in particular of Silingaan showing the beaches would be helpful, especially if taken at a known date and time). If so, please contact me directly off list. 3) Are there any scientists on this list that contributed to the 1996 Develop & Managment Plan study? It is an excellent collaberation of many scientists and is the basis of our long term recommendations for recouperation of the beach sands. If so, please contact me directly off list. 4) As an emergancy measure, they built an emergant, non-segmented rock breakwater on Selingaan. We will recommend they remove it because it could interfere with turtle nestings, but our recommendation would be strengthened by wave tank models showing that it interferes rather than enhances coastal processes. (It has protected the structures that it was intended to protect, but we suspect is has starved the sand down drift and is not adding any net sand to the island). Therefore, it would be highly useful for Pulau Selingaan to be modeled in a wave tank, but there is not currently a budget for this. So, are there any PhD or other students interested in doing this as a project? If so, contact me directly off list. I will be posting project photos to our website within a few days. Our recomendations report will be availble there too once completed. Please wait for that report before any long winded on-list debates on potential remedies for the islands. But, as always, my direct email welcomes any views. Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Moe" To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Remnancy vs resiliency Part 3: making a list All, Alina's post, although a bit strident, was right on. But it isn't going to work. Let's face it, creating educational material and appealing to science, reason, conscience, love and respect for natural systems, effective enforcement of existing conservation and environmental law, and even graphic depiction of the inevitable catastrophic results of our current attitudes and policies; is not going to change the way the vast majority of people, first world, second world, or third world, personally interact with their environment. The factors of personal economics (primarily), greed, corruption, cultural superstitions, religion, and ignorance will trump science and reason almost every time. It is good and very important, to think and act with an environmental conscience, and to urge others to do so as well, and this will have an impact, but it is just a ripple in a pond. Actual or perceived economic interests will almost always drive or at least affect environmental law. This is a given in our society, and our method of creating environmental law is flawed. Garrett Hardin said it all in 1968 when he coined the phrase, "Tragedy of the Commons", or in essence, "Freedom in a commons brings ruin to all." The fisherman's response to declines in the resource is almost always new territory, bigger gear, and/or more traps. And unfortunately a commons regulated by the exploiters is not a whole lot better than just plain freedom. The history of commercial fishing, recreational fishing, and tourism development is blunt testimony to Hardin's insight. Now there are good commercial fishermen, fishermen that are very concerned about the state of the resource and that work hard to help regulate a sustainable fishery. But fishermen are fiercely independent, hard working, and strong willed people who resent, to a greater or lesser degree, anyone, average citizens or educated desk jockeys, that try to meddle in the business that they, and their fathers and grandfathers, have carved from the sea and are convinced that they "know better than any else" how to manage "their" resource. Often many will give lip service to the pronouncements of scientific regulators and then resent and ignore as much as possible the regulations that are established to protect the resource and, concomitantly, the future of their fishery. Take the Florida lobster fishery for example. For some time I have been trying to create interest in developing a research project on use of a den trap in the Florida fishery. A den trap basically gives spiny lobsters a refuge similar to a natural den during the day, but allows the lobsters to egress at night to forage and eventually migrate. This is not a new concept; this type of device was used many years ago at the beginning of the fishery. It consisted of an "ice can", a large metal container open at one end that was used to freeze water to produce ice. When these cans were discarded, fishermen would compress the opening to make it smaller, attach a rope and buoy and harvest it as appropriate. But lobsters were not contained as they are in the modern trap. As the fishery expanded, a more efficient method of harvest was needed. But, now there are many potential advantages to the resource and eventually to the fishery if a den trap design is proven effective. 1. Traps lost from buoy cutoffs and traps lost in storms or abandoned after the season become ghost traps and kill lobster for up to a year if they are not found and disabled or removed from the water. A den trap, if lost, would become habitat during the time before disintegration and would enhance rather then destroy the future of the fishery. There would be no loss of lobster or other marine species due to death in a ghost trap and this would preserve perhaps as many as 400,000 lobsters per year for the fishery and the environment. 2. Juvenile or "short" lobsters are used as attractants (bait) in confinement traps and 1 to 3 million may die each year due to this practice. It is also possible that the legal use of shorts for this purpose may facilitate the illegal trade in juvenile lobsters. Use of den traps would eliminate this practice completely and make any possession of short lobsters illegal. This would preserve up to 2.5 million lobsters a year for the future of the fishery. 3. Poaching is a serious problem in the fishery, the most serious problem according to many lobster fishermen. Use of den traps throughout the fishery would eliminate any poaching that was conducted during night time hours 4. Lobsters, large and small, have an important function in the environment. The rock base beneath the sediments in Florida Bay contains many solution holes and cracks and crevices. These hard bottom habitats are cleared of sediments by lobsters and groupers, which provides hard bottom area for many other animals, including sponges, corals and juvenile lobsters and fish. Substantially increasing the numbers of juvenile lobsters in this environment will enhance creation and maintenance of exposed hard bottom, which in turn will enhance lobster and fish populations. Large lobsters on the offshore reefs feed on some organisms that feed on corals. Increasing the numbers of large lobsters on offshore reef areas may, to some degree, enhance the condition of the reefs and provide more breeding adult lobsters to enhance reproduction of the species. A responsible fishery does not eliminate the breeding stock even if recruitment is largely from other areas. Use of den traps throughout the fishery would strengthen natural lobster populations and enhance the effect of these populations in the environment through elimination of loss of trapped lobsters and through the freedom of lobsters up to the day of capture. The survival of additional lobsters in the population, combined with the establishment of refugia and research only areas should increase the numbers of adult breeding lobsters. 4. Trap loss and destruction during storms creates "trap trash" that fouls grass flats, beaches and mangroves areas after storms. It is possible that the lower profile of a den trap and perhaps the increased weight to volume area will keep the trap a bit more stationary during weather events thus decreasing trap loss and diminishing accumulations of trap trash in the environment. 5. Other benefits of the den trap should include better condition of the lobsters taken in the fishery and in increase in the CPUE (catch per unit of effort) over that of the standard, top entry, confinement trap. Since lobsters are free to enter and leave the den trap they will not suffer from starvation and loss of condition in the trap. And since their condition will not decline with capture time in the trap, occurrence of disease will decrease, weight will remain normal, and better product will be delivered to market. The easy entrance to a den trap may increase the catch of lobster per trap (CPUE), when the number of traps is reduced to proper levels. Also, elimination of the practice of using juvenile lobster as attractants (bait) in lobster traps may reduce the occurrence of a recently discovered lobster virus that is lethal to juvenile lobsters by eliminating the collection and transport of juvenile lobsters to areas where traps are set. I thought that this concept was worthy of at least a research project to determine if den traps might be useful and helpful to the future of the spiny lobster fishery. The response of the fishery was almost universally negative; in fact I was called an ignorant "orifice that passes bodily waste" on public radio after I sent a letter to the editor of a local newspaper suggesting such a research project. A grant was also submitted by John Hunt to conduct a research project but this was not funded. Maybe the FWC will take another look at the possiblilities at a future time. We are a free society, and this must be preserved, but as our numbers increase (and it seems that they will), we have to find ways that will preserve the environment and our natural resources. It is not easy to make changes that will protect the reefs, but we must try, and I think that economics is the only key that will work to make significant change. There are three things that can be done. Continue to use the best possible science to educate, regulate and enforce environmental and conservation issues. Reduce exploitation of sensitive natural resources. Mitigate the economic hardships that may be created by the reduction of exploitation to levels that will protect the environment and sustain the populations of fish and invertebrates. This could be done through economic means. Place a large environmental tax on the production of fishery products (and perhaps even non-consumptive use of natural resources) that would be adequate to fund research, education, enforcement, and even subsidize existing fisheries up the point that the participants in the fishery are equal to the allowable harvest and the new market structure. The resulting high price of some fishery products would then reduce demand for wild caught organisms, increase demand for aquacultured products (OK, this has its own constellation of problems), and ease the transition of the existing fisheries from high production at low prices to low production at high prices. The tax would come after the sale of the product so that increased price would not drive increased production. Easier said than done, of course, many political and economic stumbling blocks, but perhaps easier to accomplish than trying to educate and motivate millions of people concerned primarily with their own economic welfare, cultural norms, and entertainment requirements to change to a more environmentally conservative lifestyle. Martin Moe _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From reefball at reefball.com Sun Mar 26 17:54:38 2006 From: reefball at reefball.com (Todd Barber) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:54:38 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Question on Malaysian Sarawak Reef Balls Message-ID: <027901c65128$42f0d920$6801a8c0@LaFalda> Hi Lee, I am sorry to be late in answering your question, for some reason it did not make it to my inbox but our Executive Director, Kathy Kirbo, forwarded it to me. Anyway, The program was by the Sarawak Forestry Department, and around 3 national forest designated islands they deployed over 2,000 Large Reef Balls (I get some reports that they did even more...around 5,000) randomly so that fishermen would not know where they were and would avoid the area with their nets. This worked and the Forestry Department published several informational brochures and one scientific report on the subject. Adult turtle deaths declined and egg landings increased. You should be able to find them and more detailed reports on the project at http://www.reefball.org/album/malaysia/index.html Then navigate to Borneo -> Sarawak -> Reef Ball Working Group Turtle Protection Project. (Or it may be under Malaysia -> Sarawak -> Reef Ball Working Group depending upon when you access it in relation to our current website update). (Sorry, I would give you the exact URL but the page is being updated as I write this and the URL will change as we re-organized the geographic listings when we added the new Sabah projects). Feel free to contact me if you need more information. -Todd Barber From: Lee Goldman To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: [Coral-List] Turtle nestings Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:37:54 -0800 (PST) >Hi Todd, > > I'm afraid i'm a bit confused by your statement about the reef balls in Sabah. You established a bunch of reef balls 8 years ago and that has stopped the netting(?) and substantially increased the amount of turlte nestings in the area? Can you please elaborate on this and included your evidence? Also, when were these islands made off limits to humans? Perhaps, assuming that 8 years is enough time to see an increase in turtle nesting, there is a stronger correlation to the increase in turtle nestings due to lack of human interference? > > Thanks, > > Lee Goldman > Coralfarmguam > PO Box 6682 > Tamuning, Guam > 671.646.6744 > Coralfarmgaum at yahoo.com > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail >Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. >_______________________________________________ >Coral-List mailing list >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list Thanks, Todd Barber Chairman Reef Ball Foundation, Inc. 3305 Edwards Court Greenville, NC 27858 reefball at reefball.com http://www.artificialreefs.org http://www.reefball.org http://www.reefball.com Direct: 252-353-9094 mobile: 941-720-7549 Fax 425-963-4119 Personal Space: http://www.myspace/reefball Group Space http://groups.myspace.com/reefballfoundation Skype & MSN For Voice or Video Conferences: Available upon request Atlanta/Athens Office 890 Hill Street Athens, GA 30606 USA 770-752-0202 (Our headquarters...not where I work see above) From delbeek at waquarium.org Sun Mar 26 18:00:15 2006 From: delbeek at waquarium.org (Charles Delbeek) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:00:15 -1000 Subject: [Coral-List] Fwd: Re: Could Restricting Access to Reefs Be Counterproductive? Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060326125955.02ab1160@mail.waquarium.org> >At 04:04 PM 3/23/2006, you wrote: > >"Unless we show people their magnificence, how will they >know? People have no reason to care >about these things in the ocean unless those of us who know something about >coral reefs share our knowledge. I think the goal should be to take your >friends on a reef vacation to teach them about reefs. Begin by explaining >why your friends must not touch the coral. Describe how long it takes a >colony to grow, why reefs are important to the ecosystem, and explain that >corals are sensitive to temperature changes and nutrients. Take a slate and >pencil on a dive or snorkel trip and point to and identify critters that >live in/on/around the reef. Maybe this will get more people excited about >and behind our goals of conservation and protection of the reefs. While >some reefs may need restricted access to improve local infrastructures or to >protect seed banks, restricting visitor access to all reefs would greatly >hinder the learning process. " > >Thanks, >Selena >_______________________________ > >This may be somewhat controversial to some, but, there are thousands >of marine aquarium hobbyists around the world who have living, >thriving, growing "coral reefs" in their homes. The vast majority of >these people also have an extremely well developed environmental >awareness of the plights of corals reefs. Many of these people have >never been to a real coral reef, yet they have a deep seated empathy >for the plight of these systems. Many of these people also act as >educators, educating family and friends alike on coral reef ecology, >many host school groups in their homes several times a year. These >people ARE getting the message of coral reefs out there and ARE >raising public awareness for people who will never have the >opportunity to see a living coral reef in the wild. Finally, many of >these aquarists take great pride in the fact that their "coral >reefs" consist almost entirely of aquacultured specimens, some even >home grown and traded with other hobbyists. > >I would urge those who are not aware of this "resource" to check out >online forums such as reefcentral.com and reefs.org, both of which >have Tank of the Month sections ... you might be shocked and amazed >to see what people are accomplishing when it comes to growing and >propagating corals in closed systems, 1000's of miles/km from the sea. > >Sincerely, > >J. Charles Delbeek M.Sc. From jerald_padi at yahoo.co.in Mon Mar 27 05:57:53 2006 From: jerald_padi at yahoo.co.in (jerald wilson) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:57:53 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Coral-List] LIT Data software Message-ID: <20060327105753.72845.qmail@web8503.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear All I got the ARMDES package from AIMS, Australia for data analysis. Its really good and nice. But it was a beta version and needs to improve more. (eg. Lat and Long entry not working) If anybody have the updated version or the source to get, Pls forward me. Thanks in advance Cheers J. Jerald Wilson Research Fellow Centre for Marine & Coastal Studies Madurai Kamaraj University Madurai 625 021 HP: +(91) 9826 37535 --------------------------------- Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. From Bprecht at pbsj.com Mon Mar 27 09:37:25 2006 From: Bprecht at pbsj.com (Precht, Bill) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:37:25 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] FW: Retirement of Gene Shinn, Pioneer in Carbonate Sedimentology and Coral-Reef Ecosystems (USGS Soundwaves, 2/2006) Message-ID: <8511092CB6C11C4BB2632F61A82C620C0477B768@MIAMBX.pbsj.com> To All: Please read this wonderful article Cheers, BP - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retirement of Gene Shinn, Pioneer in Carbonate Sedimentology and Coral-Reef Ecosystems By Bob Halley and Jack Kindinger USGS Soundwaves - http://soundwaves.usgs.gov February 2006 http://soundwaves.usgs.gov/2006/02/staff2.html Gene Shinn prepares a conch for dinner while explaining to a group of geologists (outside photograph) how to tell male conchs from female conchs. http://soundwaves.usgs.gov/2006/02/GeneShinn.jpg It's the end of an era: after 31 years, Gene Shinn has decided to retire from the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), where he has conducted pioneering scientific research on carbonate sediments and coral-reef ecosystems. Gene came to the USGS after a distinguished career at Shell Oil and, in 1974, established the Fisher Island Field Station, Miami Beach, Fla. During his years at the field station, Gene won a USGS award for developing a hydraulic drilling device, and he published extensively on coral-reef ecosystems and modern and ancient carbonate sediments. Gene's groundbreaking research on carbonates showed that widespread submarine lithification is occurring on the sea floor in the Persian Gulf, producing features that previously were believed to form only during subaerial exposure. As a participant in the Pacific Enewetak Atoll Crater Exploration (PEACE) project in Enewetak, Marshall Islands, Gene made submersible and scuba dives to help determine the size, morphology, and deformation depth of two submarine craters created by hydrogen-bomb testing in the 1950s-a multifaceted study the USGS conducted at the request of the Defense Nuclear Agency. Gene was a co-discoverer of modern giant submarine stromatolites (similar to the dominant fossils of the Precambrian) that are forming in the Exuma Islands, Bahamas, reported in the November 1986 issue of Nature (v. 324, no. 6092, p. 55-58; see URL http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v324/n6092/abs/324055a0.html). This exciting discovery helped change the way that geologists interpret the environments in which ancient stromatolites formed. In 1989, when he moved to what is now the USGS Center for Coastal and Watershed Studies in St. Petersburg, Fla., Gene was working on a project that explored the effects of offshore drilling on ecosystems-a topic as timely today as it was then. Ever the pioneer in exploring environmental issues, Gene also led a project from 1991 to 1994 that helped determine the pathways and movement of sewage-contaminated ground water in the Florida coral-reef tract. These data have been used widely and are the basis for several court cases and environmental hearings. Later, Gene continued to work on ground-water-seepage rates and flow direction in Florida Bay and the Florida Keys. Recently, most people know Gene for his research and theories on the effects of African dust on coral-reef ecosystems. Once again the pioneer, Gene hypothesized, and led a research group to demonstrate, that dust coming from Africa contains viable microbes that could potentially harm various species and ecosystems. His research even spawned a fictional novel by Sarah Andrews entitled Killer Dust (see Science and Fiction-Sarah Andrews, Author of Killer Dust, Discusses Her Latest Mystery Novel in Sound Waves, April 2003). Gene's scientific impact spreads far and wide. Numerous scientists and lay people alike know him, have seen him on TV, have talked to him on the phone, or have e-mailed him. Why? Because Gene has always been a great communicator on all levels. He has been an American Association of Petroleum Geologists (AAPG) Distinguished Lecturer and has received three "best paper" and "outstanding paper" awards from major journals and national meetings. He won the 2002 USGS Shoemaker Award for Distinguished Achievement in Communications (see URL http://internal.usgs.gov/OUTREACH/shoemaker/a_winners.html#2002). Gene has led field courses for geologists since the 1950s. Carefully elucidating how to observe carbonate-producing organisms, their accumulated sediment, and their interpretations in ancient rocks, he has tutored three generations of aspiring sedimentologists. It is not unusual for students to greet Gene with the remark that "My father/mother says your field trip in 19xx was one of the best experiences of his/her life!" Eugene Shinn's extraordinary contributions to our understanding of carbonate sedimentology and coral-reef ecosystems were recognized in 1991 by the Meritorious Service Award of the Department of the Interior, in 1998 by Honorary Membership in the Society for Sedimentary Geology, and in 1998 by an Honorary Doctoral Degree bestowed by the University of South Florida. Though "retired" (not!), Gene remains dedicated to pursuing his scientific interests as a Courtesy Professor at the University of South Florida, College of Marine Sciences. We wish Gene all the best; you may contact him at eshinn at marine.usf.edu. ----------------------------------------- From dvaughan at mote.org Mon Mar 27 09:41:04 2006 From: dvaughan at mote.org (David Vaughan) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:41:04 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Sponge Workshop Announcement Message-ID: <4427F980.2090009@mote.org> SPONGE WORKSHOP ANNOUNCEMENT! Mote's Tropical Research Laboratory in the Florida Keys, announces "Ecology and Taxonomy of Marine Sponges", a week-long workshop for advanced undergraduates, graduate students, and marine professionals to be held at Mote's Tropical Research Laboratory, Summerland Key, Florida, August 12- 20, 2006. Course Description: The course includes a background on the general ecology, biology, and taxonomy of tropical marine sponges. Taxonomic training includes the characteristics and identification of the various sponge orders and common taxa of the Florida Keys. Through hands-on ecological and taxonomic experience, participants will develop the ability to describe and identify common sponges living on the shallow coral reefs of the Florida Keys. Daily activities will include morning and afternoon lectures, field and lab work, and discussions. Instructor: Shirley Pomponi, Ph.D., Harbor Branch Oceanographic Institution Dates: August 12 - 20, 2006 Location: Mote's Tropical Research Laboratory, Summerland Key, Florida For a full course description, fees, and application materials, go to http://www.mote.org/Keys/sponge_workshop.phtml Application deadline is April 30, 2006. The workshop is limited to 14 participants. Please forward this to any persons, agencies or institutions who may be interested. Thank you for listing. Dave Vaughan, Ph.D. Executive Director, Tropical Research Laboratory Director, Center for Coral Reef Research Mote Marine Lab, Florida Keys From david at trilliumfilms.net Mon Mar 27 14:52:31 2006 From: david at trilliumfilms.net (David McGuire) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:52:31 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] Sexy scientists and Marine Sanctuaries In-Reply-To: <20060324155135.91716.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060324155135.91716.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Listers, It is with great interest I read the thread of selling science and using sexy science or hero types. I too was inspired by J. Cousteau and Wild Kingdom and went on to study marine biology and environmental science. I have worked in the science education field and am now completing a shark- coral reef conservation documentary. We just interviewed Dr Enric Sala, Pew Fellow and a rising star in ocean conservation who is working to make serious impacts on the public perception of ocean conservation issues. His sincerity, excellent analogies and panache all qualify him as an intriguing ocean spokesman. We hope that Enric's articulate nature and passion will convey itself to the audience. He also looks great on camera. Perhaps he can be one of our next ocean awareness pioneers. By the way, Sylvia Earle has been and still is one of the greatest ocean advocates as well as a highly respected scientist. Lets not forget her indefatigable efforts. The beauty of her words, her scientific deeds, and her person far exceed M. Cousteau in my mind. Our film, focusing primarily on reef sharks but addressing l threats to all sharks- including shark finning, is not reality TV and may not wrest the gameboys out of kids hands, but we hope the vivid shark images, the sailing and Polynesian cultural elements will draw some attention towards the gravity of the issues to a general audience. This film will not be your typical IMAX eye candy and brush over the issues (no slur on the film makers who produce these enviable products- more the producers looking for the big return), nor will it be sharks leaping out of the air or tearing into seals, but instead will highlight important conservation issues including coral reef habitat destruction. By nature this will reduce the audience who will be required to think and face the issues. However, to maintain a general audience, we have to reduce some of the science- it is the inevitable compromise. We conclude with support of the proposed 14th National Marine Sanctuary- another thread I would like to invite comment and information about. I have just returned from hawaii and working with some of the NOAA folks and have great content and material on the Northwest Hawaiian Islands. We hope to complete the film by August for 07 PBS and 06 film festival screenings. Regarding the marine sanctuary off the Florida keys: The NWHI do not have the direct human impacts the reefs off Florida must endure and are better situated geographically to withstand some of the sea water increases, but as recent bleaching events reveal, they are not immune to degradation. Has their been success in fisheries management through no take reserves in the Florida sanctuary, and are they designed with connectedness in mind? Is anyone aware of areas where coral reefs in the sanctuary has recovered relative to areas outside, or perhaps is even less degraded? Thank you for your thoughts. David McGuire Producer, Trillium Films Sausalito CA From szmanta at uncw.edu Mon Mar 27 19:51:34 2006 From: szmanta at uncw.edu (Szmant, Alina) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:51:34 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Four summer coral reef internships available Message-ID: <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C9091CB11D@UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu> Four two-month field research assistant internships with UNCW are available for work in the Florida Keys (3 interns) and Puerto Rico (1 intern) to assist with research on coral larval culture, coral settlement ecology, and Diadema recruitment. The internships begin July 24, 2006, in Wilmington NC and run for two months. Requirements include Advanced Scuba certification with a minimum of 30 logged dives and at least a few night dives, and the ability to captain a 25 ft boat (Coast Guard or Power Squadron type of boat handling course, and 20+ logged boat hours at the helm). Applicants with prior AAUS certification are preferred. Only US citizens or people with a US work permit can be considered. The Internship stipend is $1900 per month and includes transportation from Wilmington NC to either the Florida Keys or Puerto Rico, and lodging but not food or other expenses. You will also be responsible for obtaining a dive physical, current first aid, CPR and DAN O2 administration certifications before the internship begins. For more information please call or email: Dr. Margaret Miller (305-361-4561; margaret.w.miller at noaa.gov ) or Dr. Alina Szmant (910-962-2362; szmanta at uncw.edu). Applications will be reviewed as they come in, and positions will be filled on a first-come, first-qualified-come basis. UNCW is committed to equal opportunity employment. ******************************************************************* Dr. Alina M. Szmant Coral Reef Research Group UNCW-Center for Marine Science 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln Wilmington NC 28409 Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410 Cell: (910)200-3913 email: szmanta at uncw.edu Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta ****************************************************************** From isrs2006 at zmt-bremen.de Tue Mar 28 07:15:03 2006 From: isrs2006 at zmt-bremen.de (ISRS 2006 Bremen) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:15:03 +0200 Subject: [Coral-List] ISRS 2006 European Meeting Bremen: Session 3 Announcement Message-ID: <1143548103.442928c71d7b4@www2.zfn.uni-bremen.de> Dear coral-list Please find below the session abstract and announcement for "Session 3: Temperate, deep and cold water reef communities" at the ISRS 2006 European Meeting Bremen which we are posting on behalf of Jan Helge Foss? (chair of this session). Best regards, ISRS 2006 Bremen --- Dear colleagues, The organiser of session 3 ?Temperate, deep and cold water reef communities? at the International Society for Reef Studies European meeting in Bremen (Sept 19-22nd 2006) would like to invite submission of abstracts for consideration. Traditionally the ISRS European Conference has been a venue for tropical coral reef scientists, but in Cambridge 2002, a session on deep-cold-water corals was included for the first time. The session was very successful and it is now hoped for a worthy follow-up. Research on tropical reefs represents a long and strong tradition and cold-water coral scientists may benefit from interacting with their ?tropical? colleagues, and vice versa. The interest in cold-water coral research has increased in recent years. This is reflected in the growing number of participants from the ?1st International Symposium on Deep-Sea corals? in 2000 in Halifax to the 3rd in 2005 in Florida. It is an exciting research field, but also there is a huge demand for knowledge from marine managers and society in general because coral species and habitats are threatened by human use of the sea. In various regions of the world the deep coral communities are so extensive that they are likely to play a major role in the local/regional ecosystem. This is one of the reasons why it is important to describe the ecological significance (importance as fish habitat, biodiversity hot spots) of the corals and to understand their role in the marine food web. Along these lines papers on the following themes are invited: * Distributions and explanatory factors (present and past) * Reef development and morphology (present and past) * Significance of corals as habitat for species * The role of cold-water corals in the marine food web * Ecological consequences of damage or impact to coral communities * Management ? useful practices, design and effectiveness of MPAs These topics include many aspects of ongoing research, but please feel free not to be limited by these suggestions. If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May 15 at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on ?Registration? and assign your abstract to session ?3?. Please send an electronic copy to the session chair (jhf at imr.no). We look forward to your participation. ISRS2006 homepage: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/ Best wishes Jan Helge Foss? Jan Helge Foss? Head Benthic Habitat Research Group Institute of Marine Research Bergen, Norway www.imr.no jhf at imr.no Phone: + 47 55 23 85 33 -- Local Organising Committee ISRS 2006 European Meeting Bremen Center for Tropical Marine Ecology (ZMT) Fahrenheitstr. 6 D-28359 Bremen Germany Fax +49-421-2380030 http://isrs2006.zmt-bremen.de mailto: isrs2006 at zmt-bremen.de From isrs2006 at zmt-bremen.de Tue Mar 28 08:41:42 2006 From: isrs2006 at zmt-bremen.de (ISRS 2006 Bremen) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:42 +0200 Subject: [Coral-List] ISRS 2006 European Meeting Bremen: Session 13 Announcement Message-ID: <1143553302.44293d165c0b9@www2.zfn.uni-bremen.de> Dear coral-list Please find below the session abstract and announcement for "Session 13: Reef rehabilitation" at the ISRS 2006 European Meeting Bremen which we are posting on behalf of Buki Rinkevich and Helmut Schuhmacher (chairs of this session). Best regards, ISRS 2006 Bremen ------------------------ Request for abstracts: Reef rehabilitation: We would like to invite submission of abstracts for the session ?Reef Rehabilitation? which is part of the ISRS meeting in Bremen (Sept. 19-22nd 2006). The decline of coral reefs worldwide has prompted the need for urgent development of adequate rehabilitation and restoration methodologies. In many cases protection of reefs failed to prevent further habitat degradation. Hence, active measures are numerous, but not all are ecologically compatible. Adequate concepts of reef restoration, preferably embedded in theories of uw-landscape ecology, are still in their infancies and state-of-the-art remediation protocols are rare. Another point for consideration is the overharvesting of reef organisms for food and ornamental trade, degrading reef health as well. In this session, we welcome original studies on: ? Reef rehabilitation and restoration ? Concepts for reef restoration ? Reef rehabilitation sites, case studies ? Mariculture of corals and other reef organisms Please submit your abstract by May 15 at http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php. Click on ?Registration?, go to ?Abstract Submission?, and assign your abstract to session 14 ?Reef rehabilitation?. Send a copy to Buki Rinkevich (buki at ocean.org.il) and Helmut Schuhmacher (h.schuhmacher at uni-essen.de). -- Local Organising Committee ISRS 2006 European Meeting Bremen Center for Tropical Marine Ecology (ZMT) Fahrenheitstr. 6 D-28359 Bremen Germany Fax +49-421-2380030 http://isrs2006.zmt-bremen.de mailto: isrs2006 at zmt-bremen.de From Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov Tue Mar 28 12:02:21 2006 From: Jim.Hendee at noaa.gov (Jim Hendee) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:02:21 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] 6th European ISRS Meeting in Bremen - Session 6 Message-ID: <44296C1D.5050605@noaa.gov> [This is being forwarded for Sylvie Tambutt?, who is having trouble posting to coral-list; please reply as appropriate...] Subject: 6th European ISRS Meeting in Bremen - Session 6 From: "ISRS_Monaco Team" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:38:58 +0100 To: Call for papers: Bremen ISRS meeting We would like to invite submission of abstracts for a thematic session on ? Key taxa and processes ? to be held at the 6th European ISRS Meeting in Bremen in September 2006. Key themes to be considered in this session will be: (1) processes of photosynthesis and calcification: from the gene to the ecosystem (2) heterotrophy, coral feeding (3) gene flow/coral genomics If you are interested in participating in this session, please submit your abstract by May15th at: http://isrs2006.zmt.uni-bremen.de/regis.php Click on 'Registration', go to 'Abstract Submission', and assign your abstract to session [6] "Key taxa and processes". Please also forward copies of the abstract, indicating whether you would prefer an oral or poster presentation, to us at: isrs_monacoteam at centrescientifique.mc We look forward to your participation. Best Regards Sylvie Tambutt? & Christine Pag?s Centre Scientifique de Monaco Avenue Saint Martin MC 98000 Monaco www.centrescientifique.mc From Roger.B.Griffis at noaa.gov Tue Mar 28 12:20:42 2006 From: Roger.B.Griffis at noaa.gov (Roger.B.Griffis) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:20:42 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Request for contacts conducting currrent research/monitoring on Caribbean Bleaching events Message-ID: <4429706A.8010701@noaa.gov> TO: Coral List RE: AP reporter looking for contacts conducting currrent research/monitoring on Caribbean Bleaching Forwarding request for information below.... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: can you post this on the coral reef llist serv? Thanks Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:22:08 -0500 From: Borenstein, Seth National Associated Press Science Writer seeks recent bleaching research Seth Borenstein, a science writer with the Associated Press, is seeking to talk to scientists who have done research/dives in the past month or so (or in the near future) regarding the large bleaching event in the carribbean in 2005. "I'm looking to write a story about the magnitude and severity of the bleaching and would like some of hte most recent research and anecdotes. If you have photos, that's definitely a plus. Also, if anyone is about to embark on such a study, let me know. My telephone is 202-776-9454. My e-mail is sborenstein at ap.org Thank you very much, Seth Borenstein AP Science Writer" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The information contained in this communication is intended for the use of the designated recipients named above. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify The Associated Press immediately by telephone at +1-212-621-1898 and delete this email. Thank you. From willi3ac at aol.com Tue Mar 28 21:53:57 2006 From: willi3ac at aol.com (willi3ac at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:53:57 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Philippines Interest In-Reply-To: <006301c64b9c$1bcc6800$1946a8c0@cccpete> Message-ID: <8C820F328C10C40-132C-1338@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Hi Pete (and coral-listers)! Funny you should mention the Philippines. I am in my first semester at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington, doing Graduate studies in Marine Science. I will actually be traveling to the Philippines both this summer and next summer to do thesis research. I would love to learn more about what information you have to share, as it could most likely assist in my thesis research!! Originally, I had planned to do a biodiversity study inside VS outside an MPA in the Philippines, but, with nearly 500 species of coral to memorize in the next month or so, it seems to be a far-fetched idea. I am familiar with Caribbean corals, naturally, but I want to expand my coral knowledge and have an opportunity to study in the Philippines. Now, I'm trying to figure out a way to do a study on the general health of the coral/marine ecosystem because memorizing 500-some species seems like too much for my particular study. I am open to any and all suggestions about a good way to approach this research (this is an open suggestion to anyone, please!). I like to hear new/new-fangled ideas about doing unique research, though I know I should be building upon someone else's research. I will most likely piece together bits here and there. Thank you! Cheers Amanda W. -----Original Message----- From: Pete Raines To: 'James M. Cervino' ; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:47 -0000 Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? Dear James, Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: "Likewise, mate"! As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of my recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed to the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was in the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk hostile or personally abusive. I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, and co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - period!. Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal profession - enough said! Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can be accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the confines of the USA. Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and influential and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully accomplish way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. All the best, Pete _____________________________________________ Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD Founder & Chairman Coral Cay Conservation Ltd 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 email: psr at coralcay.org www.coralcay.org DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or disclosed to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are stored for future reference. Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org ______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. Cervino Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? Dear Pete, I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor over time during this current time, and if this development project takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an educational tool so close to US coastal cities. Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your "interesting data" from the Philippines! James Dear all, I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay Debate" etc etc,.... Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed (I choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list has been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope that my initial concerns are unfounded. Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for those wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now know very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not clog-up the open channel that coral-list was established for. So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of coral reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming out of there, if you are interested. Cheers, Pete -- ************************************************** Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. Marine Pathology Department of Biological & Health Sciences Pace University New York NYC Phone: (917) 620-5287 Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org *************************************************** _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list _______________________________________________ Coral-List mailing list Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From layoub at mail.marine.usf.edu Wed Mar 29 05:01:30 2006 From: layoub at mail.marine.usf.edu (Lore Ayoub) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:01:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Coral-List] Phillipines study and Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? In-Reply-To: <8C820F328C10C40-132C-1338@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> References: <006301c64b9c$1bcc6800$1946a8c0@cccpete> <8C820F328C10C40-132C-1338@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <50116.71.99.111.210.1143626490.squirrel@mailbox3.acomp.usf.edu> I wish you luck with your project, Amanda, though I don't have experience to give many suggestions, except perhaps you can find archive data on biodiversity indices, that way the coral ID's have already been done and you don't need to know them all. Also, would cover be another way to describe health ie identifying %coral cover vs algae vs sand and so on? Regarding the Phillipines and Guana Cay, perhaps the Guana Cay case, especially if successful, can be used as a case for the neglected Phillipines, to bring to issue with the Phillipines government. I really am for the Guana Cay discussion, also for the reasons James C. mentioned, and applaud their dedication. If this can spawn awareness and possibly necessity of assessment groups to rival developers in other areas, that would be great. Is the Guana Cay defender group able to get support from other countries' laws? For example, do places like Bermuda have laws that protect reefs from development, that can be used as a case for the Guana Cay reefs? I know one scientist there is actively doing research on the effects of golf course pesticides (See Bermuda Aquarium, Museum and Zoo, Jamie Bacon) in conjunction with the ecotoxicology lab at the Bermuda Biological Station, but I am not sure if they are extending their analysis to reefs. Lore > Hi Pete (and coral-listers)! > Funny you should mention the Philippines. I am in my first semester at > the University of North Carolina, Wilmington, doing Graduate studies in > Marine Science. I will actually be traveling to the Philippines both this > summer and next summer to do thesis research. I would love to learn more > about what information you have to share, as it could most likely assist > in my thesis research!! Originally, I had planned to do a biodiversity > study inside VS outside an MPA in the Philippines, but, with nearly 500 > species of coral to memorize in the next month or so, it seems to be a > far-fetched idea. I am familiar with Caribbean corals, naturally, but I > want to expand my coral knowledge and have an opportunity to study in the > Philippines. Now, I'm trying to figure out a way to do a study on the > general health of the coral/marine ecosystem because memorizing 500-some > species seems like too much for my particular study. I am open to any and > all suggestions about a good way to approac > h this research (this is an open suggestion to anyone, please!). I like > to hear new/new-fangled ideas about doing unique research, though I know > I should be building upon someone else's research. I will most likely > piece together bits here and there. > Thank you! > Cheers > Amanda W. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Raines > To: 'James M. Cervino' ; > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:47 -0000 > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog > them? > > > Dear James, > > Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. > Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative > and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: > "Likewise, mate"! > > As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List > upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of > my > recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I > have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the > Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since > withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > > James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed > to > the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was > in > the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk > hostile or personally abusive. > > I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, > and > co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding > Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my > opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an > arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - > period!. > Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from > certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely > profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal > profession - enough said! > > Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US > scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born > in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the > Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can > be > accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the > confines of the USA. > > Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be > spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding > Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and > influential > and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all > this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; > their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent > re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) > important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a > one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the > Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully > accomplish > way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. > > There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My > point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? > For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. > > All the best, > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD > Founder & Chairman > > Coral Cay Conservation Ltd > 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK > Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) > Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) > Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 > email: psr at coralcay.org > www.coralcay.org > > > DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended > only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain > confidential > and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or > disclosed > to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender > immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this > message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no > liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay > Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and > cannot > accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent > transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are > stored for future reference. > Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United > Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org > ______________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. > Cervino > Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 > To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? > > Dear Pete, > > > I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will > kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as > "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is > about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site > to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline > diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor > over time during this current time, and if this development project > takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer > is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see > that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can > be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an > educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > > Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the > corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this > open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your > "interesting data" from the Philippines! > > James > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my > emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay > Debate" > etc etc,.... > > Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past > 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed > (I > choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed > because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list > has > been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope > that my initial concerns are unfounded. > > Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for > those > wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now > know > very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to > another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not > clog-up > the open channel that coral-list was established for. > > So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of > coral > reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming > out of there, if you are interested. > > Cheers, > > Pete > -- > ************************************************** > Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. > Marine Pathology > Department of Biological & Health Sciences > Pace University New York NYC > Phone: (917) 620-5287 > Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org > *************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > From gallardo at ait.ac.th Wed Mar 29 07:48:53 2006 From: gallardo at ait.ac.th (Wenresti G. Gallardo) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:48:53 +0700 Subject: [Coral-List] Philippines Interest References: <8C820F328C10C40-132C-1338@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000c01c6532f$22a47790$8d139fcb@B103> Hi Amanda, Where in the Philippines do you plan to do your research? Who is your contact person there? I am from the Philippines and have worked in the Southeast Asian Fisheries Development Center (SEAFDEC) in Iloilo, Philippines for about 15 years but I am now teaching here in the Asian Institute of Technology (AIT), Thailand. My team had an initial survey of the corals and reef resources in Sagay Marine Reserve in Negros, Philippines and I have an on-going research on abalone stock enhancement.. If you do not have a particular area for your research yet, I would suggest doing it in Sagay Marine Reserve which is a 32,000 ha protected seascape. But of course you have to communicate and ask permission from the Protected Area Management Board (PAMB) of Sagay Marine Reserve. You can know more about Sagay Marine Reserve thru the internet. If you wish to communicate directly with me, my email address is gallardo at ait.ac.th. Wishing you the best, Wenresti G. Gallardo ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Philippines Interest > Hi Pete (and coral-listers)! > Funny you should mention the Philippines. I am in my first semester at > the University of North Carolina, Wilmington, doing Graduate studies in > Marine Science. I will actually be traveling to the Philippines both this > summer and next summer to do thesis research. I would love to learn more > about what information you have to share, as it could most likely assist > in my thesis research!! Originally, I had planned to do a biodiversity > study inside VS outside an MPA in the Philippines, but, with nearly 500 > species of coral to memorize in the next month or so, it seems to be a > far-fetched idea. I am familiar with Caribbean corals, naturally, but I > want to expand my coral knowledge and have an opportunity to study in the > Philippines. Now, I'm trying to figure out a way to do a study on the > general health of the coral/marine ecosystem because memorizing 500-some > species seems like too much for my particular study. I am open to any and > all suggestions about a good way to approac > h this research (this is an open suggestion to anyone, please!). I like > to hear new/new-fangled ideas about doing unique research, though I know I > should be building upon someone else's research. I will most likely piece > together bits here and there. > Thank you! > Cheers > Amanda W. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Raines > To: 'James M. Cervino' ; > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Sent: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:47 -0000 > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog > them? > > > Dear James, > > Not surprisingly, my recent email has elicited a variety of responses. > Happily, most have been constructive, well considered, highly informative > and above all, polite. Only a couple have been otherwise and to them: > "Likewise, mate"! > > As I said in my previous email regarding my views and comments of the List > upon recently re-joining it: "At best, my view is just skewed because of > my > recent rejoining." Clearly there is much more on the Bahamas issue that I > have not been party too. However, I am well aware of some issues in the > Bahamas, having not too distantly become extremely P'd-off and since > withdrawn CCC's offer of support for a GEF initiative there. > > James, I wanted to reply to your email openly via coral-list (as opposed > to > the others I have done so directly and in private) because your reply was > in > the first-person, informative & constructive, and not instantly knee-jerk > hostile or personally abusive. > > I remain convinced that the dialogue I have seen (limited as it may be, > and > co-limited as to the period of my rejoining the List has been) regarding > Guana has at best run it's course as far as the List is concerned. In my > opinion, it now needs to be shifted into another dedicated focal arena; an > arena that all wishing to join should be openly invited to do so - > period!. > Some of what I have read posted to coral-list (since I re-joined) from > certain parties regarding Bahamas could, in other hands, become extremely > profitable to those whose livelihoods are dependent within the legal > profession - enough said! > > Be advised also that the Bahamas issue is US-centric: of interest to US > scientist adjacent to the US coastal cities. It (the issue) should be born > in mind, but related and extended to those countries such as the > Philippines, where in my own limited experience (21 years), far more can > be > accomplished and achieved by US scientists willing to travel beyond the > confines of the USA. > > Let me put this another way: a good deal of time and effort appears to be > spent on trying to protect a few hectares (?) of coral reefs surrounding > Guana, and at face value perhaps at odds with the Government and > influential > and well-financed development stakeholders. What BEST has to say about all > this or what the local community have to say, I have not been party to; > their voice/comments via the List I have not seen, perhaps given my recent > re-entry. There are several thousand ++ hectares of equally (if not more) > important reefs out there in places like the Philippines just begging a > one-tenth diversion of US reef-focus to them. With just a fraction of the > Guana attention and focus, US reef scientists would successfully > accomplish > way more than they could ever hope to in tiny places like the Bahamas. > > There really is some "interesting data" coming from the Philippines. My > point is: is there anyone from the USA that really wants to listen to it? > For the very small minority that do/can, please contact the likes of CCC. > > All the best, > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > Peter Raines MBE FRGS FIBiol CGeog CBiol MInstD > Founder & Chairman > > Coral Cay Conservation Ltd > 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, UK > Tel: +44 (0)20 7874 5212 (direct line) > Tel: +44 (0)777 176 7423 (cellphone) > Fax: +44 (0)870 750 0667 > email: psr at coralcay.org > www.coralcay.org > > > DISCLAIMER: This message (and any files transmitted with it) is intended > only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain > confidential > and privileged information which may not be copied, distributed or > disclosed > to any third party. If received in error, please inform the sender > immediately and delete from your mailbox. Any views expressed in this > message are not necessarily those of Coral Cay Conservation Ltd and no > liability is accepted for loss or damage arising from their use. Coral Cay > Conservation Ltd takes all reasonable action to suppress viruses and > cannot > accept responsibility for any loss or damage caused by inadvertent > transmission of contagious files. Emails may be open to monitoring and are > stored for future reference. > Coral Cay Conservation Ltd, 40-42 Osnaburgh Street, London NW1 3ND, United > Kingdom. Tel: +44 (0)870 750 0668 www.coralcay.org > ______________________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of James M. > Cervino > Sent: 18 March 2006 12:50 > To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > Subject: [Coral-List] Corals don't Clog, Discovery Inc. will clog them? > > Dear Pete, > > > I don't think bringing attention to a development project that will > kill 200 year old corals in the Bahamas can be constituted as > "clogging up this list". Do you realize that the Bahamas Govt is > about to approve such an action? We were using Guana as a study site > to monitor corals that are infected with very low indices of coraline > diseases. We coral scientists need to have old colonies to monitor > over time during this current time, and if this development project > takes place with the help of these so called "experts" the developer > is paying we will loose this study site. I was actually happy to see > that this reef, if the levels of nutrients were to be controlled, can > be a great study site for many scientists and divers to use as an > educational tool so close to US coastal cities. > > Erik Gauger has told me that this thread may actually help save the > corals of Guana. We appreciate Jim Hendee's efforts for having this > open platform and are looking forward to hearing about your > "interesting data" from the Philippines! > > James > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > I've just rejoined the List and am starting to regret having done so: my > emails having been immediately swamped today by "The Great Guana Cay > Debate" > etc etc,.... > > Much of what I have read and been party to on this issue (in just the past > 12 hrs since I rejoined) seems somewhat polarised and extremely focussed > (I > choose my words very carefully here!). At best, my view is just skewed > because of my recent rejoining. At worst, some would say that coral-list > has > been hijacked. I shall remain on the List for a few days more in the hope > that my initial concerns are unfounded. > > Important as the Guana issue is (and it is), perhaps it's now time for > those > wishing to pursue it so passionately (and you have all made us all now > know > very load and clear who you are) to do so amongst yourselves, move off to > another dedicated communication channel amongst yourselves, and not > clog-up > the open channel that coral-list was established for. > > So, having said all that: anyone out there want info on the status of > coral > reefs in Southern Leyte (Philippines)? Some really interesting data coming > out of there, if you are interested. > > Cheers, > > Pete > -- > ************************************************** > Dr. James M. Cervino, MS, Ph.D. > Marine Pathology > Department of Biological & Health Sciences > Pace University New York NYC > Phone: (917) 620-5287 > Web site: http://www.globalcoral.org > *************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list > _______________________________________________ > Coral-List mailing list > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list From Chantal.Collier at dep.state.fl.us Wed Mar 29 09:39:01 2006 From: Chantal.Collier at dep.state.fl.us (Collier, Chantal) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Land-Based Sources of Pollution Project Coordinator - Coral Reef Conservation Program Vacancy Message-ID: <943FD515DC6DA1448B46F948346DFB3301405016@tlhexsmb3.floridadep.net> Apologies for cross-postings, please distribute widely. Florida Gulf Coast University seeks a Project Coordinator to provide technical assistance and lead the planning and implementation of local action strategy projects addressing land-based sources of pollution and water quality for the Southeast Florida Coral Reef Initiative. The Land-Based Sources of Pollution Project Coordinator is a full-time contract position in the Florida Department of Environmental Protection's Coral Reef Conservation Program, located in Miami, Florida. Please see the full announcement at: http://www.fgcu.edu Select the link for Employment Opportunities, then Search Postings. Search on Requisition ID number 0338. This is a grant funded position with anticipated refunding for up to 3 years. Relocation expenses to Miami, Florida are not available. The vacancy announcement closes on April 17, 2006. For more information about the Southeast Florida Coral Reef Initiative, please visit: http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/programs/coral/ and http://www.southeastfloridareefs.net Thank you, Chantal Collier Coral Reef Program Manager Florida Department of Environmental Protection From j_urich at yahoo.com Wed Mar 29 10:14:05 2006 From: j_urich at yahoo.com (Juan F Urich) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:14:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Coral calcification references Message-ID: <20060329151405.27322.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Lister: I would greatly appreciate your help in providing me with key Scientific references and possible electronically published papers on the General Physiology, Cell Biology and Biophysics of the Coral calcification process Regards to all Juan F Urich Ecology Proffesor Universidad Gran Marical de Ayacucho Maturin- Edo. Monagas Venezuela --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From coralite at gmail.com Wed Mar 29 10:31:55 2006 From: coralite at gmail.com (Jake) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:31:55 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Zooxanthellae Podcast Message-ID: <8e68a17a0603290731s7ca0e544nc5dafb0576194eab@mail.gmail.com> Dear Listers, My name is Jake Adams and I am a marine science senior at the University of Soutch Carolina. I want to inform you of a podcast that I have recently produced which is specifically about coral zooxanthellae. The program is divided into two parts. The first part (~10 min) introduces the basic characteristics of what zooxanthellae is and how it interacts with its coral host. The second part (~20min) is an interview with Dr. Daniel Thornhill in which we discuss about a dozen recent zooxanthellae related topics. Although I am sure many of you are familiar with the material, the podcast is at an intermediate level of scientific jargon and it is my hope that it will be of particular usefulness to junior scientists and upper level education outreach. The podcast can be downloaded at http://www.talkingreef.com/podcasts/Zooxanthellae-TR-Ep41.mp3 There is also a supporting webpage which includes a transcription of part 1. http://coralite.net/researchzoox.html The content is under a creative commons license and anyone is free to distribute the content for non-commercial purposes, without modification and with attribution of the author (Jake Adams). I would just ask that you make an effort to host the file on your own webspace if you plan to make a large distribution as the current server is often maxed out. I aim to produce a couple more episodes with content garnered from the upcoming symbiofest meeting (wink-wink to those of you who plan to attend), and I would greatly appreciate any input into making the program as useful as possible. Thanks, Jake Adams -- www.coralite.net Jesus Saves, passes to Moses, He dribbles He Shoots, HE SCORES!!! From wjaap at marine.usf.edu Wed Mar 29 16:33:40 2006 From: wjaap at marine.usf.edu (Walt Jaap) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:33:40 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Posting a workshop announcement Message-ID: <012001c65378$723d9fe0$7f8af783@KORAL> I am cohosting this workshop if you feel it meets standards, please post. Thank you Walt Jaap Training workshop on Analysis of Multivariate Data from Ecology and Environmental Science, using PRIMER v6 Clam Bayou Marine Science Education Center (USF), Boca Ciega Bay, St Petersburg FL, October 16-20, 2006 Course ? This five day workshop will cover the statistical analysis of assemblage data (species by samples matrices of abundance, area cover etc) and/or multi-variable environmental data which arise in a wide range of applications in environmental science and ecology, from environmental impact assessments, through fundamental community ecology studies and monitoring of widescale biodiversity change, to biomarker studies and purely physical or chemical analyses ? Based on the PRIMER package (Plymouth Routines In Multivariate Ecological Research), a worldwide standard software tool used in over 2000 recent SCI-listed papers, for analysis of assemblages of marine benthic flora/fauna, corals, plankton, fish, algae etc, and, increasingly, terrestrial, freshwater, palaeontological, microbial & genetic data ? The workshop covers definitions of similarity, clustering (CLUSTER), ordination by non-metric multi-dimensional scaling (MDS) and principal components analysis (PCA), hypothesis testing on similarity matrices (ANOSIM) and other permutation tests (RELATE), linking biotic patterns to environmental variables (BEST/Bio-Env), identifying species responsible for observed community pattern (SIMPER, BEST/BvStep), comparison of ordinations (2nd stage MDS), dominance curves and (bio)diversity indices, including measures based on taxonomic relatedness of species (TAXDTEST), and practical issues such as taxonomic identification level, sample design, choice of analysis, etc ? Lectures will also cover new tools in PRIMER v6, released in March 2006, e.g. a much wider range of similarity measures including new dispersion-weighted and taxonomically-based coefficients, new global permutation tests for a) groups formed in dendrograms (for a priori unstructured samples), b) dominance curves and c) optimal biota-environment relationships (the latter also examined by new non-parametric ?linkage trees?). Also new in v6 are SIMPER analyses for 2-way layouts and abiotic variables, missing data algorithms for environmental data, improved MDS plots and diagnostics, merging of non-matching species lists, a wide class of richness estimators, workspaces which are navigable and savable, major speed and data capacity enhancements etc ? The workshop will be given by Dr K R Clarke (PRIMER-E and an honorary fellow of the Plymouth Marine Lab, UK). Bob Clarke is a researcher in ecological statistics and has worked for many years at the PML, where he was responsible for adapting and developing the methods underlying the PRIMER package ? ?Hands-on? lab sessions will use real literature case studies, analyzed with PRIMER. Participants are also encouraged to bring some of their own data to the course. The emphasis throughout is on practical application and interpretation, the theoretical aspects (e.g. the multivariate statistical methods which are the core of the course) being carefully selected to be those that are simple to describe and understand. No prior statistical knowledge is assumed Venue ? The workshop will be held at the University of South Florida, Clam Bayou Marine Science Education Center, set in a Nature Preserve on Boca Ciega Bay, about 15 minutes drive from the St Pete Campus of USF. Whilst the schedule is an intensive 5 days of lectures and labs, 8 am to 5 pm (but finishing mid-afternoon Friday for those who need to get away), there will be opportunity to relax-recreate during lunch breaks by wandering round the reserve or taking short canoe trips. ? In addition to snacks and coffee at mid-morning and afternoon breaks, lunches will be provided as part of the course fee. Accommodation and other main meals; however, are not covered by the course fee (though it is hoped to arrange an evening event at the center, including dinner, on the Thursday). ? Accommodation is not available at the Clam Bayou center itself. There are several chain hotels (Holiday Inn, Howard Johnson?s, Hampton Inn) about 10 minutes? drive from the center; also the small town of Gulfport (about 15 minutes away) has character accommodation and restaurants. Non-local participants will need to arrange their own travel and accommodation, but the local organizer, Walt Jaap, can provide further information on the hotels and travel possibilities ? Lectures and exercises will take place in a multi-function room, not a computer laboratory, so participants are expected to bring their own laptop computers to use during the lab sessions, analyzing literature data sets and some of their own data (with Bob Clarke?s help). Not every participant needs a laptop and you may prefer to share with a colleague ? one machine between two people is very workable (in fact, has some benefits in terms of livelier interactions!). Workshop costs ? Course fee: $700 ($500 for full-time students) for a full 5 days. This includes materials (but not software), and catering at breaks and lunches ? Software license for PRIMER6. The PRIMER version 6 software will be used throughout and, to register, participants must either already have purchased a license for this new version or purchase/upgrade at the time of the course*. The below are discounted license fees for course participants (postage will be added if software is required in advance of the workshop) Private sector company: $800 new v6 $400 upgrade+ to v6 from v5 Public sector institution: $600 new v6 $300 upgrade+ to v6 from v5 University staff/student (research use only**): $400 new v6 $200 upgrade+ to v6 from v5 *An exception can only be made for a student who will, in future, only be using their supervisor?s PC (and their supervisor already has a registered v6 license), or they will be using a machine covered by a v6 teaching license at their university. **University use of v6 for contractual work requires an appropriate public or private sector license + If upgrading, please first check with Cathy (admin at primer-e.com) that you hold a valid v5 license Contact and Registration ? Contact the local organizer, Walt Jaap, e-mail: wjaap at tampabay.rr.com, wjaap at marine.usf.edu phone: 727-896-0521 or 727-553-3612. Walt can e-mail you a detailed schedule for the workshop and a registration form, and can send non-locals information on the hotels and directions. ? Registration for the course is solely through PRIMER-E in Plymouth, UK. Registration must be accompanied by payment, for both course and software fees, preferably by providing credit card information (Visa or Mastercard only). Cards will be debited on receipt of registration form, or later if requested, but no later than the registration deadline of 21 July 2006. Dollar checks drawn on a US bank can also be accepted but these must again arrive by the registration deadline. ? The course will cater for about 25 participants, and is limited to an absolute maximum of 30: places will be allocated in strict order of receipt of registration, with payment. Forms can be faxed (++44 1752 783366) or posted to Cathy Clarke at PRIMER-E. Invoices, confirming payment, will be issued. (Cathy can also e-mail proforma invoices, if requested. Contact her on admin at primer-e.com). Late registrations will be accepted, space permitting, also in order of payment. From bluewatervolunteers at yahoo.com Wed Mar 29 20:48:25 2006 From: bluewatervolunteers at yahoo.com (Blue Water Volunteers) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:48:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] Philippines MPA study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060330014825.92857.qmail@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Amanda, Nice to know that you have a project going in this part of the world! Yup, the number and diversity of hard coral species can be daunting, but that said, the Philippine researchers are pretty familiar with their own corals, so they should be able to help you out there! What aspects are you studying with regards to MPAs? Their overall effectiveness, effectiveness of zoning, enforcement, etc.? I guess this would help to narrow down the scope somewhat. You might want to try reviewing the major impacts outside the MPA that are excluded (theorectically or not) by the formation of the MPA. Some examples would be harvesting (both fish and invertebrates), destructive fishing methods, construction of resident or tourist dwellings (all resorts recently torn down at Pulau Sipadan, Sabah, as they were deemed to have negative impacts on the surrounding reef), and more, depending on the area. To get around the 500+ scleractinian species and hundreds of thousands of other reef species, just do a recce of the proposed study locations, you might find some dominant species (coral or otherwise), that you can use for comparisons. Some have also looked at the diversity of hard coral growth forms in addition to live coral cover to link to reef status. All the best for your research! Cheers, Tse-Lynn _____________ Loh Tse-Lynn Chairperson Blue Water Volunteers Conservation.Awareness.Education www.bluewatervolunteers.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:53 AM > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Philippines Interest > > > > Hi Pete (and coral-listers)! > > Funny you should mention the Philippines. I am in > my first semester at > > the University of North Carolina, Wilmington, > doing Graduate studies in > > Marine Science. I will actually be traveling to > the Philippines both this > > summer and next summer to do thesis research. I > would love to learn more > > about what information you have to share, as it > could most likely assist > > in my thesis research!! Originally, I had planned > to do a biodiversity > > study inside VS outside an MPA in the Philippines, > but, with nearly 500 > > species of coral to memorize in the next month or > so, it seems to be a > > far-fetched idea. I am familiar with Caribbean > corals, naturally, but I > > want to expand my coral knowledge and have an > opportunity to study in the > > Philippines. Now, I'm trying to figure out a way > to do a study on the > > general health of the coral/marine ecosystem > because memorizing 500-some > > species seems like too much for my particular > study. I am open to any and > > all suggestions about a good way to approac > > h this research (this is an open suggestion to > anyone, please!). I like > > to hear new/new-fangled ideas about doing unique > research, though I know I > > should be building upon someone else's research. > I will most likely piece > > together bits here and there. > > Thank you! > > Cheers > > Amanda W. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From lbeddoe at gmail.com Wed Mar 29 16:02:19 2006 From: lbeddoe at gmail.com (Lee Ann Beddoe) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:02:19 -0400 Subject: [Coral-List] PostDoc Ad at UWI Message-ID: <85ab8360603291302p62676672k797729c5eae27840@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, Please note the following advertisement for a post-doctoral coral researcher at The University of the West Indies, St. Augustine, Trinidad West Indies. Thank you. Lee Ann *Post-Doctoral Researcher in Coral Research* Faculty of Science & Agriculture Department of Life Sciences *Qualifications* Applicants must have a PhD. in coral biology, ecology, health, management or any other related areas. He/She must be competent in the design, conduct and interpretation of field and laboratory experiments and should have relevant research experience in either molecular techniques or tropical marine systems. *Experience/Competencies/Skills* The successful candidate will be expected to conduct research in one of the following areas and publish findings in appropriate peer-reviewed scientific journals: Coral reef regeneration; Microbial and environmental influences on coral health; Algal-coral interactions; Evaluation of fish and coral population health in local reefs. Additionally you will be expected to submit applications for funding coral reef research and provide leadership/mentorship to graduate research students, as well as deliver a limited number of lectures. Further Information For further information on the post, of Post-Doctoral Researcher in Coral Researcher please contact Dr. Dawn Phillip at dphillip at fsa.uwi.tt *Closing Date:* Sunday, April 16, 2006 From j_urich at yahoo.com Thu Mar 30 11:59:31 2006 From: j_urich at yahoo.com (Juan F Urich) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:59:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Coral-List] coral calcification thanks Message-ID: <20060330165931.26329.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to the following listers that provided most valuable references on coral calcification. AnneCohen, Jean-Pierre Gattuso,Thomas Goreau,Greg Hess, Ruth Ketty, Casey Saenger & Noga Stambler. Regards Juan F Urich --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From cstorlazzi at usgs.gov Thu Mar 30 14:08:42 2006 From: cstorlazzi at usgs.gov (Curt Storlazzi) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:08:42 -0800 Subject: [Coral-List] meeting session: Carbonate Beaches and Coral Reefs Message-ID: Dear colleagues: We would like to draw your attention to a meeting session on: Carbonate Beaches and Coral Reefs at the Sixth International Symposium on Coastal Engineering and Science of Coastal Sediment Processes - Coastal Sediments 07 - to be held 13-20 May, 2007, in New Orleans, Louisiana. Please visit the conference web site for more information: http://www.asce.org/conferences/cs07 Thematic Session Description: Carbonate sand beaches and coral reefs are major features along low-latitude coasts. They differ, however, from most sedimentary coastlines due to their complex bathymetry, hydrodynamic roughness and heterogeneous sedimentary properties (densities, shapes, etc). The goal of this session is to foster a comprehensive, multi-disciplinary exchange of new information and insights on physical processes, sediment transport and morphologic change along carbonate beaches and over coral reefs. Following the conference's overall theme of science over a range of scales, we welcome papers ranging from grain-scale interactions and flow through individual coral heads up to the vulnerability of carbonate beaches and reefs to future climatic forcing. Papers describing modeling efforts, quantitative prediction and observational studies establishing links between environmental change and coastal response, as well as storm effects, are especially encouraged. Moderators: Lisa Robbins, U.S. Geological Survey, Center for Coastal and Watershed Studies, St. Petersburg, FL (lrobbins at usgs.gov, 727-803-8747 x 3002) Curt Storlazzi, U.S. Geological Survey, Pacific Science Center, Santa Cruz, CA (cstorlazzi at usgs.gov, 831-427-4721) Abstract Submittal Deadline: May 16, 2006 Abstract Submission Procedure: Prospective authors are encouraged to discuss their abstract submission with the moderators in advance of abstract deadline and send copy of the abstract to the moderators when finally submitted to the CS07 web site (http://www.asce.org/conferences/cs07/abstract.cfm). If you know of anyone who might be interested but did not receive this notice, please feel free to pass it on. We are excited about this session and look forward to your participation in New Orleans! Lisa and Curt -- ciao..... _______________________ Curt Storlazzi, Ph.D. Research Oceanographer U.S. Geological Survey Pacific Science Center 400 Natural Bridges Drive Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (831) 427-4721 phone (831) 427-4748 fax Staff web page: http://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/staff/cstorlazzi/ Coral Reef Project: http://coralreefs.wr.usgs.gov Pleasure Point Project: http://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/research/projects/pleasurept.html From evmresearch at gmail.com Thu Mar 30 20:29:15 2006 From: evmresearch at gmail.com (Erich Mueller) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:29:15 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] course announcement Message-ID: <6dc4b4a80603301729u3533dda0hd91055d3c5c6ad95@mail.gmail.com> Course Announcement: 2006 LMSEP - Sea Of Abaco There are still a couple of berths available for this summer's Lucaya Marine Science Expedition Program (LMSEP). This course is a unique opportunity for advanced undergraduates and graduate students to explore the natural and cultural history of the Sea of Abaco. The program is designed to provide students with an intensive hands-on study of the flora and fauna of the Sea of Abaco with an emphasis on coral reefs and the challenges they face in today's world. Combined with lectures and readings encompassing a wide range of marine science topics, students will learn various field techniques and lab analyses aboard a working research vessel. Students will actively participate in all research vessel operations, including training in sailing and navigation. LMSEP has been granted permits from the Ministry of the Bahamas to collect samples for *Symbiodinium* diversity analyses and to install several permanent survey stations throughout the Abacos. Students will actively participate in sampling and processing a wide variety of symbiotic cnidarians for subsequent molecular diversity analyses. Additionally, students will learn the practical skills of properly selecting and installing permanent stations for benthic marine surveys. A few practical techniques of the LMSEP will include: ? oceanographic profiling and analyses ? introduction to PAM fluorometry ? extraction and isolation of Symbiodinium from host tissue ? cell counts using a haemocytometer ? light and dissecting scope microscopy ? quadrat sampling, linear transect and radial belt transect survey methodologies ? GPS and costal piloting, plotting and navigation The two-week program sets sail from Marsh Harbour, Abaco on 8 July and returns to port on the 21st. See http://www.coralreefscience.com for more information and application materials. From emma.hickerson at noaa.gov Fri Mar 31 11:33:39 2006 From: emma.hickerson at noaa.gov (Emma Hickerson) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:33:39 -0600 Subject: [Coral-List] Bleaching and Disease report - Flower Garden Banks NMS Message-ID: <442D59E3.1050307@noaa.gov> This is an update on observations of the status of coral bleaching and disease at the coral reefs of the East and West Flower Garden Banks, northwestern Gulf of Mexico conducted the first week of March, 2006. Coral bleaching was still present but much reduced compared to surveys conducted in October and November 2005, but similar to results from January 2006 surveys. A number of belt transects were conducted (same locations as January 2006 surveys), 15 meters long by 1 meter wide, in which every coral colony was counted and scored as to its bleaching condition (totally bleached, partially bleached or unbleached). Transects were established from known reference points (mooring buoy anchor pins). The average number of coral colonies affected by bleaching ranged from 4.0% (West FGB) and 5.7% (East FGB). As a reminder, this is compared to an average of 42% in October, and 46% in November. January (4.5%) and March (4.0%) observations were similar at the West FGB, and continued recovery was documented at the East FGB; January (10.3%) and March (4.0%). Of the species affected, Millepora alcicornis, Stephanocoenia intersepta and Montastraea cavernosa had colonies that were considered still "totally bleached" (0.5%), with most species scored as "partially bleached". Video was taken along each transect but has not yet been analyzed. Water temperature during the survey was 73 degrees F (22.8 degrees C). Coral disease surveys were conducted along transects varying from 15m x 1m wide to 50m x 1m at both the East and West Flower Garden Banks. Coral colonies exhibited white plague like symptoms on 3.33% at the West FGB, and 8.34% at the East FGB. In localized areas at the East FGB, up to 20% of the colonies were affected. In the previous bleaching surveys (October and November) no disease was noted on the transects. White plague symptoms were noted on Colpophyllia natans, Diploria strigosa, Porites astreoides, Montastrea annularis, M. faveolata, and M. franksi. Disease was also affecting the single known colony of Acropora palmata on the East FGB. Last year, 2005, was the first year a widespread coral disease event was documented at the Flower Garden Banks NMS, affecting seven species. This also was a winter event. This event slowed as water temperatures increased. This second event appears to be more severe. Depths of surveys: West FGB ? approx. 70?-77? (21.3-23.5m) East FGB ? approx. 60? ? 85? (18.3-25.9m) Diseased colonies were tagged to track the progress of the disease. Additional surveys will be conducted in the coming weeks to monitor the status bleaching and disease. Observations provided by: Emma Hickerson (FGBNMS) Andy Bruckner (NOAA Fisheries) Eric Borneman (Univ. of Houston) Bob Jonas (George Mason Univ.) Geoff Cook (George Mason Univ.) Beth Zimmer (Florida Int?l Univ.) -- ````````````````````````````````````````````````` Emma L. Hickerson Research Coordinator emma.hickerson at noaa.gov Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary 1200 Briarcrest Drive, Ste. 4000 Bryan, TX 77802 PH: 979-846-5942, ext. 111 FAX: 979-846-5959 flowergarden.noaa.gov sanctuaries.noaa.gov ````````````````````````````````````````````````` From Louis.Florit at noaa.gov Fri Mar 31 15:30:34 2006 From: Louis.Florit at noaa.gov (Louis Florit) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:30:34 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] "Caribbean coral suffers record die-off" Message-ID: <442D916A.5000103@noaa.gov> Corals in the news, on CNN's website, Science & Space section: http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/31/coral.death.ap/index.html "WASHINGTON (AP) -- A one-two punch of bleaching from record hot water followed by disease has killed ancient and delicate coral in the biggest loss of reefs scientists have ever seen in Caribbean waters. Researchers from around the globe are scrambling to figure out the extent of the loss. Early conservative estimates from Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands find that about one-third of the coral in official monitoring sites has recently died." -- Louis Florit, Research Associate University of Miami/CIMAS NOAA/Atlantic Oceanographic Meteorological Laboratory 4301 Rickenbacker Causeway Miami, FL 33149 Phone: (305) 361-4445 From ricksanders at comcast.net Fri Mar 31 15:38:45 2006 From: ricksanders at comcast.net (Rick Sanders) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:38:45 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] Caribbean Coral Suffers Record Bleaching, Death - Associated Press Message-ID: <00e701c65503$1b4dbc60$640da8c0@manta> Just thought I would pass this on in case someone didn't see it.... Caribbean Coral Suffers Record Bleaching, Death March 31, 2006 - By Seth Borenstein, Associated Press WASHINGTON - A one-two punch of bleaching from record hot water followed by disease has killed ancient and delicate coral in the biggest loss of reefs scientists have ever seen in Caribbean waters. Researchers from around the globe are scrambling to figure out the extent of the loss. Early conservative estimates from Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands find that about one-third of the coral in official monitoring sites has recently died. "It's an unprecedented die-off," said National Park Service fisheries biologist Jeff Miller, who last week checked 40 stations in the Virgin Islands. "The mortality that we're seeing now is of the extremely slow-growing reef-building corals. These are corals that are the foundation of the reef ... We're talking colonies that were here when Columbus came by have died in the past three to four months." Some of the devastated coral can never be replaced because it only grows the width of one dime a year, Miller said. Coral reefs are the basis for a multibillion-dollar tourism and commercial fishing economy in the Caribbean. Key fish species use coral as habitat and feeding grounds. Reefs limit the damage from hurricanes and tsunamis. More recently they are being touted as possible sources for new medicines. If coral reefs die "you lose the goose with golden eggs" that are key parts of small island economies, said Edwin Hernandez-Delgado, a University of Puerto Rico biology researcher. On Sunday, Hernandez-Delgado found a colony of 800-year-old star coral -- more than 13 feet high -- that had just died in the waters off Puerto Rico. "We did lose entire colonies," he said. "This is something we have never seen before." On Wednesday, Tyler Smith, coordinator of the U.S. Virgin Islands Coral Reef Monitoring program, dived at a popular spot for tourists in St. Thomas and saw an old chunk of brain coral, about 3 feet in diameter, that was at least 90 percent dead from the disease called "white plague." "We haven't seen an event of this magnitude in the Caribbean before," said Mark Eakin, coordinator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Coral Reef Watch. The Caribbean is actually better off than areas of the Indian and Pacific ocean where mortality rates -- mostly from warming waters -- have been in the 90 percent range in past years, said Tom Goreau of the Global Coral Reef Alliance. Goreau called what's happening worldwide "an underwater holocaust." And with global warming, scientists are pessimistic about the future of coral reefs. "The prognosis is not good," said biochemistry professor M. James Crabbe of the University of Luton near London. In early April, he will investigate coral reef mortality in Jamaica. "If you want to see a coral reef, go now, because they just won't survive in their current state." For the Caribbean, it all started with hot sea temperatures, first in Panama in the spring and early summer, and it got worse from there. New NOAA sea surface temperature figures show the sustained heating in the Caribbean last summer and fall was by far the worst in 21 years of satellite monitoring, Eakin said. "The 2005 event is bigger than all the previous 20 years combined," he said. What happened in the Caribbean would be the equivalent of every city in the United States recording a record high temperature at the same time, Eakin said. And it remained hot for weeks, even months, stressing the coral. The heat causes the symbiotic algae that provides food for the coral to die and turn white. That puts the coral in critical condition. If coral remains bleached for more than a week, the chance of death soars, according to NOAA scientists. In the past, only some coral species would bleach during hot water spells and the problem would occur only at certain depths. But in 2005, bleaching struck far more of the region at all depths and in most species. A February NOAA report calculates 96 percent of lettuce coral, 93 percent of the star coral and nearly 61 percent of the iconic brain coral in St. Croix had bleached. Much of the coral had started to recover from the bleaching last fall, but then the weakened colonies were struck by disease, finishing them off. Eakin, who oversees the temperature study of the warmer water, said it's hard to point to global warming for just one season's high temperatures, but other scientists are convinced. "This is probably a harbinger of things to come," said John Rollino, the chief scientist for the Bahamian Reef Survey. "The coral bleaching is probably more a symptom of disease -- the widespread global environmental degradation -- that's going on." Crabbe said evidence of global warming is overwhelming. "The big problem for coral is the question of whether they can adapt sufficiently quickly to cope with climate change," Crabbe said. "I think the evidence we have at the moment is: No, they can't. "It'll not be the same ecosystem," he said. "The fish will go away. The smaller predators will go away. The invertebrates will go away." Source: Associated Press Rick Sanders President Deep Blue Solutions 610-892-5272 ricksanders at comcast.net From Sarah.FriasTorres at noaa.gov Fri Mar 31 18:01:20 2006 From: Sarah.FriasTorres at noaa.gov (Sarah Frias-Torres) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:01:20 -0500 Subject: [Coral-List] status of Epinephelus itajara in western Atlantic Message-ID: <442DB4C0.70406@noaa.gov> Dear Coral-listers Apologies for cross-postings. I am evaluating the status of goliath grouper, jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) in the western Atlantic. This includes Caribbean and south to Brazil. In spanish speaking countries it is called mero guaza, mero de profundidad. In Quintana Roo, Mexico, it is called cherna. I have searched through all the peer-review publications in the subject (ASFA search). I will welcome any information on their existence (present or past), current conservation status, and habitats used in any of the countires within the region. Any reports, gray literature, unpublished data you wish to share with me, even personal statements, it's all welcome. Sarah Frias-Torres University of Miami & NOAA Fisheries