[Coral-List] "vertebrate chauvinism:" Not the problem
Thomas Goreau
goreau at bestweb.net
Thu Aug 30 13:47:58 EDT 2007
Dear Will,
What I meant by vertebrate chauvinism is that Bt was approved based
on lack of impacts to vertebrates, and evidence of widespread impacts
on insects and soil fauna was downplayed, and while a little was done
on rivers, there seems to have been little or nothing on marine impacts.
It is great to hear there are groups out there working on these
impacts. There has been of course a focus on persistent organic
chemicals, and there the funding is never enough to keep up with the
new compounds being tested. Good luck to all those working in this
important area!
Best wishes,
Tom
On Aug 30, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Will Davis wrote:
>
> Tom,
> RE: "This is pure vertebrate chauvinism!"
>
> I will not criticize your passion, a characteristic that which to
> be AWOL among those managing or directing recruitment and
> application of research funds !
>
> However, I would like everyone to learn that there are some very
> dedicated people working on arduous and apparently unrecognized
> research on toxic effects of pesticides to marine invertebrate
> organisms. This has been an important component of the research
> conducted at EPA's Gulf Ecology Division (nee Gulf Breeze
> Ecological Research Laboratory), Pensacola Beach, FL. Mysid shrimp,
> clams, oysters commercial shrimp, algal species sea grasses and
> even corals have and are applied in evaluation of pesticide
> substances and other stressors. There are other labs and agencies
> working "invisibly (?)' in these areas as well.
>
> However, many of these projects are often notoriously limited in
> time and focused. Likewise, questions of COMBINED effects are
> rarely visited (tell me where on earth there is only one agent
> present ?). Part of the problem is that the passion you've shown
> does not get to 'decision-makers' who allocate the buck (resources
> if you will) and as soon as one of us dies or retires, much of the
> load we shouldered is dumped by the wayside.
>
> To educate in a timely manner and insure continuity would be a very
> significant step forward ! Let's apply our collective knowledge
> and passion to see if we can make this happen !
>
>
>>> --- Thomas Goreau <goreau at bestweb.net> wrote:
>>>> Thanks to all of you for your comments on Bt.
>>>> Gene is right, it is sprayed against Mosquitoes on a
>>>> large scale.
>>>> Alina is right it is sold all over the world as a
>>>> "specific" and
>>>> "safe" control for all sorts of insect pests.
>>>
>>>> Indeed it has become the centerpiece of the "new"
>>>> "green"
>>>> "environmentally responsible" integrated pest
>>>> management (IPM)
>>>> worldwide on grounds that no vertebrates are harmed,
>>>> and seemingly
>>>> that alone. This is pure vertebrate chauvinism!
>>>
>>>> However there is nothing specific about it's action,
>>>> it seems to kill
>>>> practically all invertebrates indiscriminately, the
>>>> good along with
>>>> the bad, the essential recyclers and pollinators
>>>> along with the
>>>> pests, and as we now seem to be seeing the marine
>>>> along with the
>>>> terrestrial.
>>>>
>>>> Will Davis' points are also well taken. There are
>>>> many strains, and I
>>>> don't know if these have been shown to be more
>>>> specific, but I
>>>> suspect all are very broad-spectrum killers.
>>>>
>>>> I think the key is that until we found it in dying
>>>> marine sponges
>>>> and looked at the literature, there seemed to be
>>>> very little studies
>>>> on the impacts on marine invertebrates, although
>>>> soil snails and
>>>> nematodes were killed, and as I recall, dragonfly
>>>> larvae and other
>>>> aquatic insects.
>>>>
>>>> What is clearly needed is to see if Bt is in waters
>>>> draining oil palm
>>>> plantations and other places where it is used, and
>>>> specific tests of
>>>> its effects against aquatic and marine invertebrates
>>>> be carried out.
>>>>
>>>> We also found Pseudomonas in dying sponges almost
>>>> identical to those
>>>> used in oil palm plantations against fungal rust
>>>> diseases. We don't
>>>> know how specific this is, so the question is
>>>> whether fungi that are
>>>> essential in soil and aquatic mineral and nutrient
>>>> cycling are also
>>>> being affected.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the Pfisteria goes, this a very
>>>> controversial topic, on
>>>> which Alina's husband is an expert, and I am sure
>>>> she will add to that.
>>>>
>>>> Thomas J. Goreau, PhD
>>>> President
>>>> Global Coral Reef Alliance
>>>> 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>> 617-864-4226
>>>> goreau at bestweb.net
>>>> http://www.globalcoral.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:09:13 -0400
>>>>> From: Gene Shinn <eshinn at marine.usf.edu>
>>>>> Subject: [Coral-List] Pal Oil plantation and
>>>> Bacillus thurigiensis in
>>>>> sponges
>>>>> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <a06230966c2f9d91a0e39@[131.247.137.127]>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ;
>>>> format="flowed"
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, The pathogen, Bacillus thuringiensis, you
>>>> identified in dead
>>>>> sponges was cultured and identified in African
>>>> dust reaching the
>>>>> Caribbean in 2003. It is used to control
>>>> mosquitoes in north Africa.
>>>>> Gene
>>>>>
>>>>> Atmospheric microbiology in the northern Caribbean
>>>> during African
>>>>> dust events, Aerobiologia 19: 143-157.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>> E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
>>>>> University of South Florida
>>>>> Marine Science Center (room 204)
>>>>> 140 Seventh Avenue South
>>>>> St. Petersburg, FL 33701
>>>>> <eshinn at marine.usf.edu>
>>>>> Tel 727 553-1158----------------------------------
>>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:44:12 -0400
>>>>> From: "Szmant, Alina" <szmanta at uncw.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Pal Oil plantation and
>>>> Bacillus thurigiensis
>>>>> in sponges
>>>>> To: "Gene Shinn" <eshinn at marine.usf.edu>,
>>>>> <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> <4E15FCC7981F7A4CA5AA0DEF4B2141C90F8DA9FF at UNCWMAILVS2.dcs.uncw.edu>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> It's also used to control caterpillars and worms
>>>> on terrestrial
>>>>> plants.
>>>>> I think you can by it at Home Depot. It's
>>>> commonly used by organic
>>>>> gardeners instead of pesticides on plants like
>>>> cannas, ginger,
>>>>> hibiscus
>>>>> etc. It is considered to be a specific pathogen
>>>> for those kids of
>>>>> bugs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> *******************************************************************
>>>>> Dr. Alina M. Szmant
>>>>> Coral Reef Research Group
>>>>> UNCW-Center for Marine Science
>>>>> 5600 Marvin K. Moss Ln
>>>>> Wilmington NC 28409
>>>>> Tel: (910)962-2362 & Fax: (910)962-2410
>>>>> Cell: (910)200-3913
>>>>> email: szmanta at uncw.edu
>>>>> Web Page: http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:54:27 -0700
>>>>> From: Jeremy Kerr <Jeremy_Kerr at csumb.edu>
>>>>> Subject: [Coral-List] Mystery Event - Lankayan
>>>> Island, Sulu Sea,
>>>>> Sandkan
>>>>> To: coral-list at aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>
>>> <fc.000f7aeb0e90755c000f7aeb0e90755c.e907925 at csumb.edu>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>
>>>>> According to "Environmental Politics and Policy"
>>>> by Walter A.
>>>>> Rosenbaum, the microbe Pfiestreia piscicida caused
>>>> a "sudden,
>>>>> dramatic increase in fish kills between 1991 and
>>>> 1993 within North
>>>>> Carolina's vast estuaries." Along with large
>>>> numbers of
>>>>> dead fish, there was a strong smell that burned
>>>> the eyes and nose,
>>>>> but it was not that of dead fish. The cause of
>>>> the deaths was
>>>>> intially assumed due to anoxic water. However,
>>>> research found high
>>>>> levels of nitrogen and phosophorus caused a
>>>>> population explosion in P piscicida. The microbe
>>>> population
>>>>> infected the fish, which lead to the die-off. A
>>>> quick web search
>>>>> shows this was not an isolated incident. After
>>>> reading the
>>>>> discussion on Coral List regarding the Lankayan
>>>> Island
>>>>> incident, I think a microbe is the most likely
>>>> suspect in this "who-
>>>>> done-it."
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeremy
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 6
>>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 8:41:53 -0500
>>>>> From: Will Davis <willp2 at tds.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Bti and the fact sheet
>>>>> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <20070829084153.9BLAB.264515.root at webfep13>
>>>>
>>> === message truncated ===
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coral-List mailing list
>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
Thomas J. Goreau, PhD
President
Global Coral Reef Alliance
37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge MA 02139
617-864-4226
goreau at bestweb.net
http://www.globalcoral.org
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