[Coral-List] Cooling reefs to prevent bleaching

[James Cervino PhD.]

Hi Mark et al.,

I will answer under your comments for easy view:

Quoting Mark Eakin <Mark.Eakin at noaa.gov>:

* James,
*
* You are absolutely right that ideas such as cooling of reefs brings
* with them disadvantages.  So is your recommendation that we instead do
* nothing but watch?

James: Of course my recommendation is not to watch! We need to remain
scientifically logical and accurate in our solution. You seem to miss what will
happen if this illogical method of pumping up nutrient rich, low pH water to the
surface will do during the early stages of a hot-spot anomaly to the sensitive
and delicate biochemical balance between the coral host and its symbioant.. 
First, lets not forget this paper by Muscatine, L., Grossman, D. and Doino, J.
(1991). Release of symbiotic algae by tropical sea anemones and corals after
cold shock. Mar. Ecol. Prog. Ser. 77, 233–243.  The confounding stresses
associated with this approach cannot be tested based on the adverse effects it
will have on the corals. Its been known that the coral-algal association is
complex, and disfunction of the symbiosis results from eutrophication
(Falkowski et al. 1993) and further tests have showed that elevated nutrients
have been known to have negative cellular effects or impairments and disrupt
reproduction in scleractinian corals....Evelyn F. Cox & S. WardImpact of
elevated ammonium on reproduction in two Hawaiian scleractinian corals with
different life history patterns: Marine Pollution Bulletin Volume 44, Issue 11,
November 2002, Pages 1230-1235.
..
*
* In light of this, I think we have to consider things like this "crazy
* idea" to help save corals.  No, we would not want to have these things
* pumping all the time for the very reasons you suggested.  However, to
* have such options that we can turn on at times when bleaching is
* imminent makes a great deal of sense.  Yes, the waters will have
* higher nutrients and lower pH.  However, I seem to recall that you
* told me at the Ocean Sciences meeting in Orlando that you thought
* there was no sense even worrying about ocean acidification because
* high temperatures were going to kill the corals first.  If that is
* true, shouldn't we be doing everything we can to turn down the heat
* when it is at its worst?

James: I did not say “not to worry about acidification”, I just wanted the
scientific truth about thermal heat stress shown to be more of a coral “killer”
than ocean acidification which leads to slower growth rates currently. When you
put a slide up there that shows acidic conditions being more of a concern on
the “coral killer pecking order” that causes the press and policy makers to
delay and begin to fund and investigate which one is worse for corals
.and we
know the answer.  Granted you are correct in saying to me that both are bad for
corals, however, not pointing out the “hear and now” severity regarding
increased CO2--&#8594; leads to heat trapping gasses lagging in the
atmosphere----&#8594; leading to immediate thermal stress towards coral death
in a few months if not weeks. Acidification is bad for coral algal
stabilization in situ, I agree with you and the science behind this research,
however, this causes delay in policy action that’s all I was saying. Will you
agree that thermal stress is worse for corals than acidic conditions? Don’t you
think that letting policy makers know the real biological facts would a better
point to address thereby allowing action to be immediate?

I have no vested interest in cooling reefs, shading reefs, or swapping
* strains of zooxanthellae. Ideas like this cooling system may be
* exactly what we need when conditions are so bad that a bit of
* nutrients and CO2 are the least of our worries.  Yes, it has some
* downsides, but it may keep the corals alive if it is handled
* properly.  Ditto for ideas of enhancing corals' abilities to withstand
* high temperatures.  "Crazy ideas" like these must be embarked on with great
care.  However, to throw them out and do nothing would be like fiddling while
Rome burns.  I'd rather grab a fire hose.
*
* Cheers,
* Mark
*

James: Investigation symbiotic algae swapping/tolerance/adaptation research for
the sake of investigating coral-algal-symbiosis is very noble Mark and worth
challenging not to mention much less expensive than pumping up nutrient rich
waters to save little patches of corals. Swapping is not just about swapping
algal subtypes, its about having an appreciation and understanding of how this
endangered organism works and what species will be left in this global warming
world.

Cool water pumping; why engage in a crazy idea that cannot work? If you read the
coral physiology papers as well as having an “appreciation” for bottom up
controls of the CORAL system you will understand why this is illogical, even as
a thought. However, I do appreciate your wanting to do something as these are
desperate times, however, I would rather grab the hose knowing that the fire I
put out has a chance to be extinguish the burning building. I would never take
federal funds and waste them on something that cannot work as I would much
rather maintain my “non-biostitute” status as a scientist and let Rome burn!
'

Take care Mark, James


*************************************
Dr. James M. Cervino
Pace University &
Visiting Scientist
Woods Hole Oceanographic Inst.
Department of Marine Chemistry
Woods Hole MA.
NYC Address: 9-22 119st
College Point NY NY 11356
Cell: 917-620*5287
************************************


Quoting Mark Eakin <Mark.Eakin at noaa.gov>:

* James,
*
* You are absolutely right that ideas such as cooling of reefs brings
* with them disadvantages.  So is your recommendation that we instead do
* nothing but watch?
*
* There is no doubt that we need to take two sets of action to deal with
* the increasing temperatures that are causing mass bleaching:
* 1) Reduce CO2 emissions, and eventually atmospheric CO2
* concentrations, to address the root cause of the problem.
* 2) Take local actions to increase reef resilience in light of thermal
* stress that will happen before we can complete work on (1).
*
* The climate system is like a big ship -- slow to stop or turn around.
* The best estimates are that we will see another 1-2 degrees C of
* temperature rise even if we all stop driving our cars, flying, running
* our computers, breathing, etc. -- right now.  For that reason (1) is
* not enough by itself.  (2) is also not enough by itself as we have to
* address the root cause or we will just keep applying bandages forever.
*
* In light of this, I think we have to consider things like this "crazy
* idea" to help save corals.  No, we would not want to have these things
* pumping all the time for the very reasons you suggested.  However, to
* have such options that we can turn on at times when bleaching is
* imminent makes a great deal of sense.  Yes, the waters will have
* higher nutrients and lower pH.  However, I seem to recall that you
* told me at the Ocean Sciences meeting in Orlando that you thought
* there was no sense even worrying about ocean acidification because
* high temperatures were going to kill the corals first.  If that is
* true, shouldn't we be doing everything we can to turn down the heat
* when it is at its worst?
*
* I have no vested interest in cooling reefs, shading reefs, or swapping
* strains of zooxanthellae. Ideas like this cooling system may be
* exactly what we need when conditions are so bad that a bit of
* nutrients and CO2 are the least of our worries.  Yes, it has some
* downsides, but it may keep the corals alive if it is handled
* properly.  Ditto for ideas of enhancing corals' abilities to withstand
* high temperatures.  "Crazy ideas" like these must be embarked on with
* great care.  However, to throw them out and do nothing would be like
* fiddling while Rome burns.  I'd rather grab a fire hose.
*
* Cheers,
* Mark
*
*
*
* On Dec 21, 2008, at 10:12 AM, James Cervino PhD. wrote:
*
* > Dr Quenton- Brings up serious flaws in the way in which how
* > information is
* > interpreted by the masses. Here is another example of how political
* > leaders,
* > journalists and the masses think that corals can be saved by a
* > company thereby
* > implementing a "cooling system" New Scientist" 2008, to protect and
* > save reefs!
* >
* > The Cooling System
* > An idea by Atmocean Inc.  has developed a simple pumping system for
* > bringing
* > cool, deep water up to the surface. They claim that we could use
* > pumps could
* > cool reefs by bringing up deep water, using only wave power.
* >
* > This is an example of the insanity, where they claim that it would
* > be feasible
* > to implement a pump that brings Cool Deep Nutrient Rich Waters to
* > the surface
* > thereby cooling reef off which will prevent them from overheating.
* >
* > What about the pH shifts?  This crazy idea would speed up the acidic
* > conditions
* > and surely kill the corals and their symbioants. Corals do not have
* > the
* > cellular mechanics or " on off switches" to deal with the above water
* > chemistry.
* >
* > This theory would bring up:
* >
* > Low pH (more acidic)
* > Low O2
* > High Hydrogen Sulfide
* >
* >
* >
* >
* > *************************************
* > Dr. James M. Cervino
* > Pace University &
* > Visiting Scientist
* > Woods Hole Oceanographic Inst.
* > Department of Marine Chemistry
* > Woods Hole MA.
* > NYC Address: 9-22 119st
* > College Point NY NY 11356
* > Cell: 917-620*5287
* > ************************************
*
*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* C. Mark Eakin, Ph.D.
* Coordinator, NOAA Coral Reef Watch
* National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
* Center for Satellite Applications and Research
* Satellite Oceanography & Climate Division
* e-mail: mark.eakin at noaa.gov
* url: coralreefwatch.noaa.gov
*
* E/RA31, SSMC1, Room 5308
* 1335 East West Hwy
* Silver Spring, MD 20910-3226
* 301-713-2857 x109                   Fax: 301-713-3136
*
* "Now is the time to confront [the climate change] challenge once and
* for all. Delay is no longer an option.
* Denial is no longer an acceptable response. The stakes are too high.
* The consequences, too serious."
* President-Elect Barack Obama, Nov. 18 2008
*
*


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