[Coral-List] Gulf eco-conspiracy

Thu Aug 12 22:12:19 EDT 2010

It's potentially a bit "men in black"-conspiracy, so I checked
> > with a
> > * friend who runs snapper charters in Texas- there are no fish in his
> > favorite
> > * spots, even spots many miles out that (to his knowledge) saw no oil

___________________________________________________________________

There is a difference between "no fish"and "not catching any fish".  Perhaps you have been fishing and experienced this in the absence of a spill.

I understand that folks want to see evidence from the government.  I am sure there are a lot of data to sort through.  PAH analysis takes time and no draft data should be distributed.  I know the laboratories are also backed up...there are only a few that are capable of the sort of principle component, biomarker, and mixing model forensic analyses needed.  It is ironic to me that many who are critical of the lack of evidence dont seem to hold themselves to the same standard when making statements like "terrifying toxicity" or "loss of entire year classes".  Speaking of evidence...got any?

Having worked on many oil spills, if I had a nickel for every time someone reported something they have "never seen before" that turned out to be  unrelated,  I would be the Prince of Nickels. This includes capable scientists in their own fields.

There are a lot of extremely qualified petrochemists and petroleum toxicologists working on the problem (I'm certainly not one of them) ......and there will be more. I vote that we have some patience and let the data speak.  Just my two cents.

Greg E. Challenger Marine Scientist/Associate Polaris Applied Sciences, Incorporated 12509 130th Lane NE Kirkland, WA 98034 425-823-4841 425-823-3805 fx 206-369-5686 cell visit us at: polarisappliedsciences.com

> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 05:08:02 +0400
> From: allison.billiam at gmail.com
> To: osha at oshadavidson.com
> CC: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Gulf eco-conspiracy
> 
> Somewhere in the middle I suppose, is this article in this week's Nature:
> http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100811/full/466802a.html
> 
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 9:22 PM, Osha Gray Davidson
> <osha at oshadavidson.com>wrote:
> 
> > Bravo, Steve. There are always "journalists" (aka, hacks) who favor the
> > sensational over the truth. But the situation, even for those of us who are
> > trying to do our jobs, is made much more difficult when information from
> > the
> > government is withheld longer than is necessary. I know that much of the
> > time there are legitimate reasons for not releasing information
> > immediately.
> > But, as you pointed out, the reality is that conspiracy theories flourish
> > in
> > a vacuum. As a member of the Society of Environmental Journalists, I can
> > tell you that this topic is a top priority of the group: the late release
> > of
> > information, and its counterpart: the difficulty of interviewing government
> > scientists directly and on the record.
> >
> > These two problems came together for me recently while I was trying to
> > write
> > a story about a photograph of a decomposing whale that went viral (the
> > photo) during the burn controversies.
> >
> > In early July I wrote a NOAA media officer:
> >
> > "I’m writing a piece for OnEarth magazine about the threats to Gulf
> > wildlife
> > from the BP oil spill. The picture I attached came from a blog complete
> > with
> > conspiracy theories about suppression of evidence. I wanted first to make
> > sure that this was indeed the whale referred to in your site’s story at
> > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100617_whale.html."
> >
> > The media guy was great, very professional and helpful. I was referred to a
> > more senior NOAA media person who wrote: "I have contacted my marine mammal
> > experts about the dead whale, but I can tell you that I have heard them say
> > on a couple of occasions that the burned looking skin on some dead whales
> > results from floating under the hot sun."
> >
> > I explained that I needed to interview one of those marine mammal experts
> > on
> > the record. If I only quoted someone from NOAA media, conspiracy theorists
> > would (rightly) have condemned my piece as inadequate. That PR person
> > didn't
> > respond to my request. In the end, I couldn't write about the whale photo
> > (I
> > had a deadline), leaving the field open to the sensationalists/conspiracy
> > theorists.
> >
> > You want accurate reporting. I want to report accurately. If NOAA were more
> > helpful in providing timely information and access to scientists for
> > interviews, everyone (but the crazies) would be better-served.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Osha
> >
> >
> > Osha Gray Davidson
> > Phoenix, AZ
> > 602-263-5582
> >
> > Correspondent, OnEarth magazine
> > Editor, El Phoenix Sun
> > Twitter @thephoenixsun
> > Member, Society of Environmental Journalists
> > Author of The Enchanted Braid: Coming to Terms with Nature on the Coral
> > Reef
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of
> > Steve.Gittings at noaa.gov
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:46 AM
> > To: James Cervino PhD.
> > Cc: 'Coral-List Subscribers'
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Gulf eco-conspiracy
> >
> > I spent about 6 weeks working on the spill in one of the command centers,
> > doing occasional overflights and field visits, and twice a week doing open
> > houses with the public in towns from the Mississippi River to Cameron. I
> > have to admit that from what I saw, the sky does not appears to be falling,
> > at least not for natural resources. Yes, the crab observations are
> > definitely worth more attention. They are a possible mechanism for oil to
> > get into the food chain. I am hopeful, however, that the lack of fresh oil
> > offshore and in the bays will keep it from becoming a long-term problem..
> >
> > The open houses that we started in June were one of the best decisions made
> > on this spill, in my opinion. People were, and still are scared by what
> > they heard from the national media. It was highly slanted to the negative,
> > and often inaccurate. Not their fault alone. The lack of daily or
> > periodic
> > environmental updates from people on the inside made the problem
> > inevitable.
> > Until the open houses started, there was no way for even local people to
> > hear from those on the ground or technical experts working on the inside.
> > Along with the open houses, there should have been periodic environmental
> > press conferences along the lines of what Kent Wells does for BP on the
> > technical activities of source control efforts. A lesson for any of us
> > involved in these incidents in the future - don't hinder information flow
> > from inside experts. Fear mongering, speculation, and conspiracy
> > accusations will gladly fill the space.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > sg
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Cervino PhD." <jcervino at whoi.edu>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:53 am
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Gulf eco-conspiracy
> > To: andrew ross <andyroo_of72 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: 'Coral-List Subscribers' <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> >
> >
> > > Dear Andrew-
> > >
> > > The gas and oil think-tankers never ask the local communities how
> > > truly bad it
> > > is, or they underestimate the power that the over-whelming truth will
> > > get out.
> > > The "Sky is not falling" folks need to take a trip to a local community
> > > gathering in each of the gulf states to see if the sky has not already
> > > fell on
> > > the tops of their heads! The FOG is getting thicker and the articles
> > > like the
> > > NYT are already taking their toll on the American TV eye.....
> > >
> > > For evidence that the oil is already in the food chain:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *************************************
> > > Dr. James M. Cervino
> > > Visiting Scientist
> > > Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute
> > > Contact Information:
> > > NYC Address: 9-22 119st
> > > College Point New York, 11356
> > > Cell: 917-620*5287
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting andrew ross <andyroo_of72 at yahoo.com>:
> > >
> > > * Jim and Quenton,I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I have to ask:Why are
> > > these
> > > * (apparent cover-up) reports any more absurd then, for example (and not
> > > * looking to tread on delicate toes), the non-existant WMDs in Iraq?
> > > * This report is certainly not scientific, but I also don't read it as
> > > trying
> > > * to be. It's a collection of personal stories and no firm evidence,
> > > which is
> > > * also part of their story. Convenient and sensational, yes, but also
> > > worth
> > > * taking a moment over as on this list we all read weeks of bright &
> > > * knowledgeable people talking of the terrifying toxicity of these
> > > * dispersants.Again, I'm not a conspiracy-guy and we should all take
> > anything
> > > * like this with a grain of salt, but I'm also not fresh off the turnip
> > > * truck. Immediately discounting it as "Jerry Springer" can't be
> > appropriate.A
> > > * --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Quenton Dokken <qdokken at gulfmex.org> wrote:
> > > *
> > > * From: Quenton Dokken <qdokken at gulfmex.org>
> > > * Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Gulf eco-conspiracy
> > > * To: "'Jim Hendee'" <jim.hendee at noaa.gov>, "'Coral-List Subscribers'"
> > > * <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> > > * Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:53 AM
> > > *
> > > * Jim,
> > > *
> > > * You are absolutely correct. The absurdity of some of the rhetoric
> > coming
> > > * across the media has been mind numbing. Unfortunately, we are the
> > > nation of
> > > * the National Inquirer and Jerry Springer; no matter how absurd,
> > > there is an
> > > * audience.
> > > *
> > > * Quenton Dokken, Ph.D.
> > > * Executive Director
> > > * Gulf of Mexico Foundation, Inc.
> > > * PMB 51 5403 Everhart Rd.
> > > * Corpus Christi, TX 78411
> > > *
> > > * Office: 3833 South Staples Suite S214
> > > * Corpus Christi, TX 78411
> > > *
> > > * 361-882-3939 o
> > > * 361-882-1262 f
> > > * 361-442-6064 c
> > > *
> > > * www.gulfmex.org
> > > *
> > > * -----Original Message-----
> > > * From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > > * [ On Behalf Of Jim Hendee
> > > * Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:04 AM
> > > * To: Coral-List Subscribers
> > > * Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Gulf eco-conspiracy
> > > *
> > > * Hi, Andrew...
> > > *
> > > * Thanks for showing us that article,
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > * tml
> > > *
> > > * which the author of the piece calls the "crime of the century." I
> > would
> > > * like to respond to the article referenced in your post, something I
> > > * rarely do.
> > > *
> > > * I should say here that even though I'm the Administrator of this
> > > * list, and I represent NOAA in what I say and do, I am herewith hoping
> > > * that I can successfully plop down a disclaimer right here and now and
> > > * say that the view below is mine as an individual, and not an official
> > > * (i.e., passed through chain-of-command) view.
> > > *
> > > * I am so disgusted with this writer's type of non-scientific
> > approach
> > > * to observation and reporting that I had written a couple of pages of
> > > a
> > > * response, quoting the author and spelling out what was wrong with this
> > > * type of writing. However, I despaired, because this is unfortunately
> > > * not new from these guys trying to get in "print" (actually, anybody
> > > can
> > > * put junk on a blog these days) and/or trying to bring attention to a
> > > * subject, the latter of which is fine, but you have to wonder if the
> > > * former is more important to some of these writers. So, I'm just going
> > > * to end with one quote.
> > > *
> > > * "The Gulf of Mexico from the Source into the shore is a giant kill
> > zone.."
> > > *
> > > * By inference I take it to mean that the ENTIRE Gulf of
> > > * Mexico--radiating out from the Source to the shores of Louisiana,
> > across
> > > * to South Florida and the Keys, west to Texas, and down to the Gulf of
> > > * Campeche--is completely devoid of life. Big zone, big kill. Bad guys,
> > > * all in collusion.
> > > *
> > > * How ridiculous. We already know it's bad. Why not put more time
> > > * into describing the huge amount of science that is now, and for years
> > > * ahead, going to go into figuring out the effects of this spill on the
> > > * ecosystem, and the engineering to make the unfortunately necessary oil
> > > * discovery process continue successfully. Of course that would take
> > > a
> > > * lot more research on the part of the writer, making it much more
> > > * difficult to make that deadline on Friday...
> > > *
> > > * Jim
> > > *
> > > * On 8/9/2010 10:01 AM, andrew ross wrote:
> > > * > Jim and all,Have you seen this?
> > > * >
> > > *
> > > * tml
> > > * > It's potentially a bit "men in black"-conspiracy, so I checked
> > > with a
> > > * friend who runs snapper charters in Texas- there are no fish in his
> > > favorite
> > > * spots, even spots many miles out that (to his knowledge) saw no oil.
> > > * >
> > > * > Little to do with coral directly, so I'll leave it up to you
> > > whether or
> > > * not to post to the list.
> > > * > Andrew
> > > * >
> > > * >
> > > * >
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > * _______________________________________________
> > > * Coral-List mailing list
> > > * Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > > *
> > > *
> > > * _______________________________________________
> > > * Coral-List mailing list
> > > * Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
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> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > >
> > >
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> 
> 
> -- 
> ________________________________
> "reality leaves a lot to the imagination..." John Lennon
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