[Coral-List] Coral killing continues in Florida

Bill Raymond billraymond10 at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 12 07:05:44 EDT 2015


No offense toward your Terry Hughes, but I believe geologists in general have a wider perspective of the world than biologists, who look at the way things are here and now, but don't have the same vision of the ebb and flow of life. The truly great ones that I've met often challenge the old guard, yet are the most open minded ones of all. Secure in themselves enough to stand up to the crowd and the crown, and in the end turn out to be right. Like the philosopher said, that which is commonly believed generally turns out to be false. Science changes. Gene is a changer. All that ranting and raving about global warming, and now look. It's cooling again. Watch the sun. 


     On Saturday, September 12, 2015 3:35 AM, Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:
   

 Bill,   If you read the posts by Ian Zink and Andrew Baker, you'll see that actually, on this subject, Gene doesn't know what he's talking about.  He knows what he's talking about on a lot of things (not including climate change), but not this one.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:

Bill,    Where did you get that Gene is probably the top coral reef scientist in the world??  He's a good geologist, no doubt.  That's not the same thing as the top coral reef scientist.  That's almost certainly Terry Hughes.  More publications in top journals than any other coral reef scientist.  Head of the world's largest coral reef research institute and James Cook Univ. in Australia.  This is nothing against Gene at all, but he's no where near the top coral reef scientist in the world.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 3:47 AM, Bill Raymond <billraymond10 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I dunno, that's a tough one. I see your point about what's appropriate and professional and going too far. On the other hand, Gene's right, over emphasizing and exaggerating the true picture only serves to weaken our case, and is so idiotically ignorant and dangerous perhaps it should be addressed publicly. Gene is probably the top coral reef scientist without Alzheimers in the world today. He makes a valid point that should be heard, even if it is rude and blunt. 


     On Friday, September 11, 2015 10:23 AM, Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net> wrote:



Gene, Good scientists should not communicate in a way that would appear to demean or humiliate a fellow scientist . . especially in a public, peer-surveyed forum. Challenge all you want, but don't lose sight of what constitutes proper decorum and civility. You and I and many others have expressed differences before, but never with such a noticeable and personal level of vitriol. I know you are not likely to take any advice from me, but before I respond on list to any provocation I take a couple of deep breaths which usually results in some measure of editorial restraint. That has helped me avoid airing out musings that likely would have been seen as a mean spirited rant.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Eugene Shinn <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu> wrote:
>
> Sarah, Your rant re, "killing hundreds of acres of endangered
> corals"---- the Corps of Engineers, "bulldozing crusade," "Port of Miami
> disaster," and "nightmare" may be a little over stated. That kind of
> language may create some excitement with some but is not likely to get
> you anywhere with the agencies involved. Good scientists should not rant
> that way or misidentify Golith Grouper poop for reproductive fluid as
> you did on the list last year. Did you apologize to readers for that
> mistake?
>
> My former office on Fisher Island overlooked the dredging area in
> question for 15 years. I know it well and although there were some
> corals there it is a stretch to consider it a coral reef. That limestone
> area had been essentially devoid of reef-building corals for millennia.
> The few corals that were there were only the hardiest, weediest species.
> In fact we could not grow corals in the water from government cut that
> we collected there at high tide for experiments. Admittedly, that was
> before the Virginia Key sewage outfall was moved further offshore. I am
> aware that a large amount of money was spent moving corals and on
> monitoring the effects of the dredging spoil on the few live corals
> found there today (coral cover off Miami-Dade County is routinely
> measured at a half percent or less by SECREMP). Some divers have
> photographed sediment accumulations on corals near the dredge area but
> were not aware the sediment was on corals already dead. The greatest
> threat was the regional 2014 bleaching event followed by regional white
> plague disease that ranged from Monroe to Palm Beach County well outside
> the dredging area (and is still ongoing). The scientists doing the work
> of course cannot discuss the results of the required monitoring studies
> at the present time because of ongoing lawsuits. I suspect that at
> sometime in the future many interesting publications and reports will
> become available for more critical review. I can appreciate the feeling
> of the many who have seen the unavoidable plumes that result from any
> dredging but it is something that none of us can stop. The danger is
> that strong contestable language now may backfire and create deleterious
> effects on the credibility of coral scientists in the future. A year
> from now the area in question will likely look no different than nearby
> areas not touched by this dredging.Gene
>
> --
>
>
> No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
> ------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
> E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
> University of South Florida
> College of Marine Science Room 221A
> 140 Seventh Avenue South
> St. Petersburg, FL 33701
> <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
> Tel 727 553-1158
> ---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
>
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-- 
Douglas Fenner
Contractor with Ocean Associates, Inc.
PO Box 7390
Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA

phone 1 684 622-7084
Join the International Society for Reef Studies.  Membership includes a subscription to the journal Coral Reefs, there are discounts for pdf subscriptions and developing countries.  www.fit.edu/isrs/

"Belief in climate change is optional, participation is not."- Jim Beever.   "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts."- Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Energy policy: push renewables to spur carbon pricing.  (the world subsidizes fossil fuels a half Trillion dollars a year!)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v525/n7567/full/nature14876.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20150904&spMailingID=49465812&spUserID=MjA1NTA3MjA0OQS2&spJobID=760401953&spReportId=NzYwNDAxOTUzS0

5 trillion tons of ice lost since 2002.  (that's trillion with a "T".  Check the steady loss in the graphs.)
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/03/ice_loss_greenland_and_antarctica_lost_5_trillion_tons_since_1992.html

Historically unprecedented global glacier decline in the early 21st century..

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/igsoc/jog/pre-prints/content-ings_jog_15j017



website:  http://independent.academia.edu/DouglasFenner

blog: http://ocean.si.edu/blog/reefs-american-samoa-story-hope





-- 
Douglas Fenner
Contractor with Ocean Associates, Inc.
PO Box 7390
Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA

phone 1 684 622-7084
Join the International Society for Reef Studies.  Membership includes a subscription to the journal Coral Reefs, there are discounts for pdf subscriptions and developing countries.  www.fit.edu/isrs/

"Belief in climate change is optional, participation is not."- Jim Beever.   "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts."- Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Energy policy: push renewables to spur carbon pricing.  (the world subsidizes fossil fuels a half Trillion dollars a year!)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v525/n7567/full/nature14876.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20150904&spMailingID=49465812&spUserID=MjA1NTA3MjA0OQS2&spJobID=760401953&spReportId=NzYwNDAxOTUzS0

5 trillion tons of ice lost since 2002.  (that's trillion with a "T".  Check the steady loss in the graphs.)
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/09/03/ice_loss_greenland_and_antarctica_lost_5_trillion_tons_since_1992.html

Historically unprecedented global glacier decline in the early 21st century..

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/igsoc/jog/pre-prints/content-ings_jog_15j017



website:  http://independent.academia.edu/DouglasFenner

blog: http://ocean.si.edu/blog/reefs-american-samoa-story-hope



  


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