[Coral-List] Why do fish swim upside down in caves?

Mon Feb 8 20:58:51 EST 2016

Thanks all who have chimed in!

*J. Charles Delbeek, M.Sc. *Assistant Curator, Steinhart Aquarium
California Academy of Sciences

Desk: 415.379.5303
Fax: 415.379.5304

*cdelbeek at calacademy.org <cdelbeek at calacademy.org> *www.calacademy.org

55 Music Concourse Dr.

Golden Gate Park

San Francisco CA 94118

Discover nature’s secret language in *Color of Life*, a dazzling new
exhibit—now open.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 6:38 AM, William Precht <william.precht at gmail.com>
wrote:

> When I took my first class in Coral Reef Ecology back in 1978 this was a
> topic of great interest.
>
> I pulled this reference out of my required reading list from that course.
> It may answer a lot of these questions.
>
> Meyer, D.L., Heiligenberg, W. and Bullock, T.H., 1976. The ventral
> substrate response - A new postural control mechanism in fishes. *Journal
> of Comparative Physiology A: Neuroethology, Sensory, Neural, and Behavioral
> Physiology*, *109*(1), pp.59-68.
>
> "Some fishes show a tendency to orient their ventral side towards a
> substrate and may thus tilt considerably when swimming near vertical walls
> or even under the ceiling of caves. This behavior was named the*Ventral
> Substrate Response (VSR)* and was quantitatively studied in the black
> croaker (*Cheilotrema saturnum*, Sciaenidae) and in the weakly electric
> fish *Eigenmannia* sp. (Rhamphichthyidae)..."
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Magnus Johnson <m.johnson at hull.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > I remember talking to Mike Land on the RRS Discovery about some
> > mesopelagic amphipods he had been looking at.  The assumption was that
> > their bilobed eye was an adaption for the differences in light
> > quality/quantity depending on whther you looked up or down.  The ventral
> > portion of the eye was apparently adapted for dim environments while the
> > dorsal was adapted for vertically downwelling light.  It all made perfect
> > sense (and was seen for example in mesopelagic decapods).  However when
> he
> > observed the animals in a tank he thought that they were  sometimes using
> > the dorsal portion of their eye to scan (as we might with our fovea) and
> > swam in all sorts of orientations.  Shaun Collin did lots of interesting
> > work on the retinae of reef and deep sea teleosts and found that the
> foveal
> > geography reflected their lifestyle.
> >
> > So my guess would be that fish can swim upside-down as easily as the
> > "right way" around and their eyes will be adapted to a particular
> > orientation with respect to the "bottom" (as suggested below).  Whatever,
> > "Ecovisiology" is very cool!
> >
> > Collin S, Partridge J (1996) Fish Vision: Retinal specializations in the
> > eyes of deep-sea teleosts. J Fish Biol 49:157–174.
> > Johnson M, Shelton P, Gaten E, Herring P (2000) Relationship of
> > dorsoventral eyeshine distributions to habitat depth and animal size in
> > mesopelagic decapods. Biol Bull 199:6–13.
> > Land MF (2009) Locomotion and visual behaviour of mid-Water crustaceans..
> J
> > Mar Biol Assoc United Kingdom 72:41. doi: 10.1017/S0025315400048773
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: BRUCE CARLSON [exallias2 at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 04 February 2016 19:58
> > To: psammarco at lumcon.edu
> > Cc: Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Why do fish swim upside down in caves?
> >
> > I think of it this way:  if I’m lying on the floor, I have a very hard
> > time eating if I’m on my back; roll over and it’s easy to eat.  OK,
> that’s
> > not quite the same as this situation, but perhaps for the grouper there
> is
> > a greater efficiency feeding if your ventral side stays oriented towards
> > the substratum, especially if you’re a carnivore feeding on fish that
> might
> > pop out of the holes.  I can’t quite imagine how they would feed
> > efficiently with their back to the rock.   Other larger groupers that may
> > not feed on little fish in holes would be better off just remaining in
> the
> > “normal” orientation.
> >
> > Just guessing.
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 4, 2016, at 5:25 AM, Paul Sammarco <psammarco at lumcon.edu>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Charles,
> > >
> > > Hello.  This is all a guessing game, but my suspicion is that the
> > phenomenon may be a combination of two things.  Firstly, where is direct
> or
> > reflected light coming from?  Which way is it light, and which way is it
> > dark?  Also, perhaps it's also a matter of looking dorsally for
> predators..
> > They should certainly know which way is up and which way is down.
> > >
> > > Food for thought.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > Paul W. Sammarco, Ph.D.
> > > Professor
> > > Louisiana Universities Marine Consortium (LUMCON)
> > > 8124 Hwy. 56
> > > Chauvin, LA  70344-2110
> > >
> > > 1-985-851-2876 (tel)
> > > 1-985-851-2874 (FAX)
> > > 1-985-232-6575 (Cell)
> > > psammarco at lumcon.edu
> > > www.lumcon.edu
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:
> > coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Charles Delbeek
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 3:22 PM
> > > To: Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > > Subject: [Coral-List] Why do fish swim upside down in caves?
> > >
> > > Our exhibit design consultant asked me this question concerning
> > Cephalopholis polleni.
> > >
> > > My thoughts were that since these fish are bottom oriented they feel
> > more secure with something on their ventral surface, I also believe they
> > can see more what is ahead and below them where most predators come from
> > for bottom oriented fish?? Also when a fish swims into a cave or overhang
> > they are swimming down a reef face and coming across the opening so it is
> > safer to remain oriented to the rock face then twisting and turning as
> they
> > enter to cave/crevice. Also the shelter holes are in the ceiling so it is
> > easier to dart into them when it is below them then above their line of
> > sight, but I am just guessing on these.
> > >
> > > Anyone have something more definitive on this?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance!
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > *J. Charles Delbeek, M.Sc. *Assistant Curator, Steinhart Aquarium
> > California Academy of Sciences
> > >
> > > Desk: 415.379.5303
> > > Fax: 415.379.5304
> > >
> > >
> > > *cdelbeek at calacademy.org <cdelbeek at calacademy.org> *www.calacademy.org
> > >
> > > 55 Music Concourse Dr.
> > >
> > > Golden Gate Park
> > >
> > > San Francisco CA 94118
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Discover nature’s secret language in *Color of Life*, a dazzling new
> > exhibit—now open.
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> >
> > BRUCE CARLSON
> > exallias2 at gmail.com
> > BCarlson at GeorgiaAquarium.org
> >
> > Carbon-dioxide concentrations hit their highest level in 4m years <
> >
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21577342-carbon-dioxide-concentrations-hit-their-highest-level-4m-years-measure&ct=ga&cad=CAEQAhgAIAAoATAAOABAg-SwjAVIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=i9IW-ZD9Lxc&usg=AFQjCNFYqbjH-5nMF6If2GtXM1bbeZhjNQ
> > >
> > The Economist <x-msg://267/>
> >
> > AT NOON on May 4th, 2013, the carbon-dioxide concentration in the
> > atmosphere around the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii hit 400 parts per
> > million (ppm).
> >
> >
> >
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