[Coral-List] Coral mortality in a warmer and acidified ocean
Risk, Michael
riskmj at mcmaster.ca
Tue Feb 7 09:49:42 EST 2017
Hi Esther.
Always good to hear from you.
We don’t let just anybody in. We like them to be tough, self-reliant, and
immune to propaganda.
Sometimes (often) to get away from things I walk through our forests. But
those forests are not what they were-first, we lost the American Chestnut,
back in the 40’s, to an imported blight. Then the Dutch Elm disease hit,
wiping out magnificent old trees that caused Toronto to be called the Green
City, because that was all you could see from the air. Then the Spruce
Budworm, the Pine Beetle…and now there’s the Emerald Ash Borer, imported
from the orient and spread by movement of firewood by ignorant people. (We
have Ash >1m diam. that are now doomed.)
Most of these are imports; all have their activity accelerated by global
warming and humans. You may have a point. When I dove the Caribbean in the
60’s and 70’s I don’t recall ever seeing diseased corals, and Cliona
delitrix was a rarity. Both of these phenomena are driven by nutrients.
Mike
On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Esther Peters <[1]estherpeters at verizon.net>
wrote:
Thanks, Mike, for the immigration instructions....
Which reminded me, what I think we are missing in the current global change
crisis is not just the temperature and pH changes, but the "globalization
change" that has brought about rapid mixing of species, from one ocean or
continent to another that have been separated by geographic and geologic
barriers for eons, by transportation via seas, skies, and roadways; the
demand by humans to bring species to locations where they weren't previously
found, either on purpose or accidentally. The result is they have escaped
from our homes and businesses, or from bilge or ballast water, airplane or
shipping cargo and baggage. They have been introduced into situations where
they may conquer native species and alter ecosystems. And for every foreign
macro-organism that we can easily find in a new habitat, there may be
associated microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, protozoa, algae, metazoans) as
well, that may cause diseases or mortalities when they infect hosts that
lack the immune responses to deal with them.
I think this problem is also contributing to why organisms are not thriving
where they once did, on top of the changing abiotic factors in our world.
Esther
On 2/4/2017 9:15 AM, Risk, Michael wrote:
Good day.
Please excuse me if I sound somewhat testy-as I said, these are
perilous
times, when we scientists should all be on our best behaviour. Not only
will
we thereby gain merit-some of you living in that nation which is about
to be
made great again (or not) need to realise there are people looking over
your
shoulder, searching for excuses.
Don’t shoot the messenger. Do not allow your opinion of the messenger
to
cloud your appraisal of the message.
Read the freakin paper. It is free access. It clearly states Acropora
“...has not only survived these environmental changes, but has
maintained
its distinct skeletal biomineralization pattern for at least 40 My.”
Those
environmental changes involved large swings in temperature and pH.
Arguments that the present rate of change is more rapid than those that
came
before are valid, but irrelevant to what I think is the central
message: how
did we get here?
If we really want to save the reefs of today, we must be able to
say-from
what? As a group, we have probably been aware that the most important
thing
we could possibly do is identify and prioritise the threats to reefs.
We have yet to do this, which is a signal failure of the group. I
realise
that absorbing the results of this work may shake some shibboleths, but
that
is how science advances.
Instructions outlining how to emigrate to Canada may be found
at [1][2]http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGlish/immigrate/index.asp
Mike
On Feb 3, 2017, at 6:52 PM, Steve Mussman <[2][3]sealab at earthlink.net>
wrote:
As a scientifically literate non-scientist, the first thing I do when
examining new information is consider the source(s). So while in this
case
I don't advocate shooting the messenger, I certainly have the right to
question his motives especially considering the fact that this isn't
the
first time he has chosen to cite a source which you have described as
having
questionable credibility. By accepting such sources we begin to
legitimize
them. Next thing you know "alternative science" will creep into our
lexicon
right along with "alternative facts".
Regards,
Steve
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Risk, Michael <[3][4]riskmj at mcmaster.ca>
wrote:
Hi Pedro (Doug, Gene).
These are perilous times, with science seemingly under threat from
all
sides
and societies increasingly polarized. This is especially true of the
US.
It is increasingly important to all of us on this list that we stick
to
the
science. Gene's scientific credentials should need no repeating to
anyone
on
this list. He also performs a valuable although sometimes annoying
service
by posting items that cause us to think, or cause our hair to catch
on
fire.
This recent exchange I think can be used as a microcosm to formulate
our
proper responses. We must not fall into the trap of shooting the
messenger.
It is true that Gene's posting came from a website that some of us
would
not
deem as credible. Nonetheless, however, the description of the
science
itself was accurate. Gracious behaviour on our part would be to thank
Gene
for bringing this to our attention.
Lost in the noise is the essential conclusion of this piece of
science,
and
I am disappointed that this seems not to have been absorbed. We as a
group
need to accept that one of our major genera of reef building corals
has
sailed through previous climate changes with its skeletal
architecture
intact. We either have to accept that the recent declines are due to
local
stresses, or we need to devise experiments to challenge the
original
findings.
Mike
On Feb 1, 2017, at 3:00 PM, Pedro H. Rodríguez
<[1][4][5]phernanrod at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Doug,
Thanks for checking the references provided to the list to support
a
counter-argument. An apparent need for attention has, once again,
disguised
as someone's "pushing the boundary" of the science with a
fact-based
argument. This is a huge disservice to the List- many people not have
the
time to check every claim that poses as a scientifically-based
argument.
As
a defense mechanism, some of us pay special attention to claims made
by
frequently debunked offenders.
Best,Pedro
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:20:08 -0500
From: Douglas Fenner <[2][5][6]douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Coral mortality in a warmer and acidified
ocean
To: Nicole Crane <[3][6][7]nicrane at cabrillo.edu>
Cc: Eugene Shinn <[4][7][8]eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>,
"[5][8][9]coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"
<[6][9][10]coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
<[7][10][11]CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at ma
il.gmail.
com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Well, all of the wording in Gene's message other than the article
reference
was from the "CO2 Science" website, except where it quotes the
article...
_______________________________________________
Coral-List mailing list
[8][11][12]Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
[12][13]http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
Risk, Michael
[9][13][14]riskmj at mcmaster.ca
References
1. [14][15]mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
2. [15][16]mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
3. [16][17]mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
4. [17][18]mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
5. [18][19]mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
6. [19][20]mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
7.
[20][21]mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gm
a
[22]il.com
8. [21][23]mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
9. [22][24]mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
_______________________________________________
Coral-List mailing list
[23][25]Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
[24][26]http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
Risk, Michael
[25][27]riskmj at mcmaster.ca
References
1. [28]http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGlish/immigrate/index.asp
2. [29]mailto:sealab at earthlink.net
3. [30]mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
4. [31]mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
5. [32]mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
6. [33]mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
7. [34]mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
8. [35]mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
9. [36]mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
10.
[37]mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gmail.
com
11. [38]mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
12. [39]http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
13. [40]mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
14. [41]mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
15. [42]mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
16. [43]mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
17. [44]mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
18. [45]mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
19. [46]mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
20.
[47]mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gmail.
com
21. [48]mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
22. [49]mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
23. [50]mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
24. [51]http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
25. [52]mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
_______________________________________________
Coral-List mailing list
[53]Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
[54]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Risk, Michael
[55]riskmj at mcmaster.ca
References
1. mailto:estherpeters at verizon.net
2. http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGlish/immigrate/index.asp
3. mailto:sealab at earthlink.net
4. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
5. mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
6. mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
7. mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
8. mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
9. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
10. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
11. mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gmail
12. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
13. http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
14. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
15. mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
16. mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
17. mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
18. mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
19. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
20. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
21. mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gma
22. http://il.com/
23. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
24. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
25. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
26. http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
27. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
28. http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGlish/immigrate/index.asp
29. mailto:sealab at earthlink.net
30. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
31. mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
32. mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
33. mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
34. mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
35. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
36. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
37. mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gmail.com
38. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
39. http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
40. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
41. mailto:phernanrod at yahoo.com
42. mailto:douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
43. mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu
44. mailto:eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
45. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
46. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
47. mailto:CAOEmEkF34OUZHy2WWtY6=3opq5eX3TLhj+eybY4YJUun6ZODNw at mail.gmail.com
48. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
49. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
50. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
51. http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
52. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
53. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
54. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
55. mailto:riskmj at mcmaster.ca
More information about the Coral-List
mailing list