[Coral-List] 'Internships'

Nicole Crane nicrane at cabrillo.edu
Fri Mar 17 17:58:55 EDT 2017 

I don't understand this vote.  Is it a degree or an internship we are 
talking about?


On 3/17/17 6:42 AM, Sander Scheffers wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>  From Oz here. Do we have a consensus (1) that potential students work with you to get a real degree? , or (2) do we allow second rate providers to dictate us what we need to agree on?.
>
> Please vote, 2 or 1.
>
>
> Dr. Sander Scheffers
>
> Senior Lecturer (Hoogleraar), School of Environment, Science & Engineering, Southern Cross University
>
> Honorary Research Fellow, University of Queensland, QLD, Australia
>
> Associate Researcher, Caribbean Institute for Biodiversity (CARMABI), Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
>
> Military Rd, Lismore NSW 2477
> T: 02 6620 3277<tel:02%206620%203277> | E: sander.scheffers at scu.edu.au<mailto:sander.scheffers at scu.edu.au>
> CRICOS Provider: 01241G
>
> On 18 Mar 2017, at 00:20, Will Nuckols <wnuckols at erols.com<mailto:wnuckols at erols.com>> wrote:
>
> If it is an education opportunity that a student is paying for, that is a
> class, and should be structured with appropriate instruction and have
> expectations for educational outcomes like any other course. Educational
> goals, and the credentials of the instructors, should be provided in
> advance, information which a student could convey to a future school or
> employer to explain how the course furthered their education.
>
> If a student undertakes an opportunity and supports themselves while
> giving to a worthy cause, that is an act of charity, not an internship.
> I¹ve donated pro bono expertise over the years and can tell you that
> unpaid work is a donation, even if one learns something in the process.
> Donated cash and expertise is not a vacation - lets not devalue the
> contributions by flippant labels. Still, they are donations.
>
> An internship that serves an academic function is altogether different.
>
> Schools and employers can use whatever filters they choose to evaluate
> whether the value an academic internship is the same as donated labor for
> a charitable cause, but institutions should label these experiences fairly
> so schools and employers can understand the nature of the experiences and
> make judgements accordingly.
>
> It is a reality that without outside funding some organizations may be
> unable to achieve their missions. That¹s not a good excuse to mislabel
> their experiences.  Asking for donations of expertise and hard cash is
> fine, and those who are able to make donations should be encouraged to do
> so. Its important to donate to worthy causes, but the worthiness of the
> cause doesn¹t forgive improper labeling of the activity.
>
> Building a program that supports an ethic that includes charity is a
> valuable life experience for both students and career professionals. But
> lets not confuse those activities with internships in an academic sense,
> lest we devalue the programs that are run as proper academic internships.
>
> Interns are students. They should not treated as donors unless you are
> willing to give them credit for their philanthropy.
>
> Will Nuckols
>
>
>
>
> On 3/15/17, 2:03 PM, "steven.carrion"
> <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral..aoml.noaa.gov> on behalf of
> steven.carrion at knights.ucf.edu<mailto:steven.carrion at knights.ucf.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hello Coral-list,
>
> I have long wanted to provide some input on this, especially since I
> don't think many students comment on these listservs. As a graduate
> student who is working to become a fully fledged scientist one day in
> academia it has been disheartening to see many organizations seemingly
> working to exploit the labor of starry-eyed students. If I were to
> estimate, I would say 75% of the opportunities I see advertised require a
> student to pay several thousands to participate in a rather short
> 'internship' of usually two to four weeks [and I don't think the benefits
> out-weight these costs].
>
> As an undergraduate student I led a research society at my university and
> I remember hearing from many students wanting to become involved in
> research say things like "I cannot afford to have an unpaid internship"
> or "I don't have money, I can't do that stuff". Research and scientific
> progress should be guided by merit, not if your parents have enough money
> to fund such pricey 'internships'- and especially not to compensate for a
> student's lack of merit. What does it mean for science when only students
> from well-off families can afford to participate in these internships?
>
> It is understandable that some institutions cannot afford to financially
> assist students so by providing unpaid internships it can open up
> opportunities that would otherwise not be available. This isn't
> necessarily bad. These can be potentially funded through grants or
> scholarship money. However, its unfair to an exploitative point to expect
> students to not only pay for travel and living costs, but also an
> absurdly high fee to even partake in the opportunity. Some internships
> with  organizations I have seen require a student to work full-time, no
> benefits, and no pay. I have also seen an organization which actually
> charges students several thousands of USD so that students are able to
> complete their dissertation projects with them. The pay for play
> 'internship' opportunities are just plain sad and absurd.
>
> Best Regards,
> Steven Carrion
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml<mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml>..noaa.gov<http://noaa.gov>> on behalf of Lescinsky, Halard
> <hlescinsky at otterbein.edu<mailto:hlescinsky at otterbein.edu>>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 10:36 AM
> To: Damien Beri
> Cc: Coral -List
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Summer Coral Reef Internship in Roatan
>
> As a Professor at a primarily undergraduate institution where we are
> continuously helping students find summer internships, I'd like to respond
> to Damien's email.  In the US the general definition of an internship is
> that it should be free to the student or perhaps paid.  From a student
> point of view, paid internships are of course better, but they are much
> rarer and more difficult to get.  Free (volunteer) internships are pretty
> typical, and those internships often don't include travel or housing
> stipends, making them a significant out of pocket expense.  But even if
> they are totally free to the student they still exert an economic filter
> since most of my students need to make money over the summer to help
> contribute to their fall tuition.  They simply can't afford to spend a
> summer without racking up cash.  The reality (at least in the US) is that
> the educational system is far from economically fair and students have to
> constantly weigh how much to spend now (on tuition, doing "unpaid
> internships", accruing student loans) in order to invest in their futures.
> The playing field is no where near even.
>       I don't begrudge any institution from offering any opportunity to
> students who are looking for experience, but I do agree with Damien, that
> if students are paying what is essentially a tuition fee (including
> classroom fees!), calling it an internship is problematic- since it
> violates the general definition of the term.  On the other hand, it may
> not
> be an organized course in the traditional sense either, and I have little
> doubt that part of the driving force is that students prefer the term
> "internship" on their resume because it seems to imply a higher level of
> selection and seriousness.
>      My guess is that the Roatan opportunity is much like what many
> non-profits do.  They offer "volunteer" positions for which participants
> pay more than their costs, and the participants feel good about helping,
> and the NGOs explicitly view it as a fund raising activity.   These are
> win-win opportunities for the participants and programs so I see no
> problem
> with them, but they are certainly not internships in the traditional
> sense.
>
> Hal Lescinsky
> Otterbein University
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Damien Beri <beridl at g.cofc.edu<mailto:beridl at g.cofc.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dear Coral List,
>
> I opt to negotiate the terms in which we decide something is eligible to
> be called an internship on this list.  An internship should not cost
> anyone
> money.  3000$ for eligibility for an internship is elitist.  It doesn¹t
> matter if its for room & board, travel, or what not.  The internship
> should
> be offered to students of the prospective area of study, if room &
> board +
> travel are included in the internship offerers budget.  While I
> understand
> coral reef research requires various types of external forms of funding
> to
> function, due to lack of said funding.  It is simply wrong to offer such
> opportunities to those with the merits afforded by monitory exchanges,
> and
> the situation in which you were raised that offered you the ability to
> receive such scholarly merits or funding to attend such an internship.
> I
> am sure many will agree with this point, and I am sure even more will
> disagree.  I however feel that this email chain should be open to this
> discussion.
>
> Thank you,
> Warm regards,
> D
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2017, at 4:57 PM, RIMS Internship <internship at roatanims.org<mailto:internship at roatanims.org>>
> wrote:
>
> There are just a few weeks left until the March 31st application
> deadline.
> Please share this information with students and other educators who
> may
> be
> interested!
>
>
> *CORAL REEF RESEARCH INTERNSHIP IN ROATAN (July 22 ­August 19, 2017)*
>
>
> *PROGRAM LOCATION:  *The Roatan Institute for Marine Sciences (RIMS),
> Roatan, Bay Islands, Honduras.
>
>
> The Roatan Institute for Marine Sciences (RIMS) is excited to offer a
> 4-week long Coral Reef Research Internship this summer.  If you are
> interested in coral reef ecology and conservation, this internship
> will
> provide a unique opportunity to live on a small Caribbean island and
> gain
> valuable field research experience on one of the most biologically
> diverse
> and well-developed reefs in the Caribbean.
>
> RIMS was founded in 1989 with the primary objective of protecting
> Roatan¹s
> natural resources through education and research.  In almost three
> decades
> our facility has established itself as a dedicated teaching
> institution
> and
> we are visited throughout the year by colleges and universities from
> abroad
> to study tropical marine ecosystems.  Our facility is ideally located
> on
> the northwest coast of Roatan with easy access to miles of fringing
> and
> barrier reef, seagrass beds, and mangrove communities.
>
>
> *INTERNSHIP DATES:* The 4-week internship will run from July 22
> through
> August 19, 2017.
>
>
> *ELIGIBILITY:  *The program will be limited to 12 interns and is open
> to
> upper level undergraduate students or recent graduates with a genuine
> interest in coral reef ecosystems. Students must be 18 years old at
> the
> start of the internship and SCUBA certified.  We do not offer course
> credit
> for the program, but due to the intensive structure of the course, we
> encourage successful applicants to arrange for independent studies or
> undergraduate research credit through their home institution.
>
>
> *INTERNSHIP DESCRIPTION:*  During the 4 weeks spent on Roatan,
> students
> will interact with staff experts and visiting faculty as they
> investigate
> and explore a variety of coral reef environments.  Through lectures,
> site
> visits and practical field exercises, students will learn the flora
> and
> fauna of the region and understand the roles of different ecological
> processes on a coral reef.
>
>
> Through collaborative research activities, mentorship and independent
> research projects, students will receive direct exposure to reef
> monitoring
> methods, as they develop, implement and communicate their own
> research.
> In
> addition to the academic and research opportunities our program
> provides,
> interns will also gain important cultural and social development. This
> internship is a chance of a lifetime and the transformative
> experiences
> students will be exposed to can contribute to personal growth and
> career
> advancement.
>
> Under the direction of professional mentors and marine biologists and
> RIMS
> staff, students will engage in a wide variety of activities and gain
> experience in the:
>
>   - Field experience in the Identification of Caribbean coral, fish,
>   invertebrates and algal species
>   - Application of field research methods to assess coral cover,
>   abundance, and reef health
>   - Development and implementation of an independent research project.
>   - Participation in reef restoration projects and maintenance and
>   monitoring of our coral nurseries.
>   - Management of invasive lionfish populations through collaboration
> with
>   the Roatan Marine Park.
>   - Participation in field trips on and around Roatan.
>   - Interaction with local conservation professionals.
>
> *COURSE FEE:*  The fee for the course is *$2975.00 USD*.  The fee
> includes
> full room & board, diving, tanks and weights, lab and classroom fees,
> airport transfers, off site field excursions and all applicable taxes.
>
> *APPLICATION DEADLINE*:  Applications are due by March 31st, 2017.
> Applications will not be accepted if all the required forms have not
> been
> received.
>
> For more information about the Coral Reef Research Internship at RIMS
> and
> to access the *Application Form* please visit our webpage at:
> www.roatanims.org<http://www.roatanims.org><http://www.roatanims.org>
> Roatán Institute for Marine Sciences | Roatan |
> Honduras<http://www.roatanims.org/>
> www.roatanims.org<http://www.roatanims.org>
> A Caribbean Marine Laboratory dedicated to the preservation of Roatan's
> natural resources through education and research.
>
>
>
>
> *CONTACT INFORMATION:*  For more information or questions about the
> internship please contact:
> Jennifer Keck
> Education & Research Coordinator
> Roatan Institute for Marine Sciences
> internship at roatanims.org<mailto:internship at roatanims.org>
> 011-504 9556-0212 <+504%209556-0212>
> www.roatanims.org<http://www.roatanims.org><http://www.roatanims.org>
> Roatán Institute for Marine Sciences | Roatan |
> Honduras<http://www.roatanims.org/>
> www.roatanims.org<http://www.roatanims.org>
> A Caribbean Marine Laboratory dedicated to the preservation of Roatan's
> natural resources through education and research.
>
>
>
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