[Coral-List] More La Ninia

Julian @ Reefcheck Malaysia julian at reefcheck.org.my
Wed Dec 1 20:21:40 EST 2010 

I can't remember whether you two guys are believers or deniers, but I do
find it interesting that two people who both seem to understand the
mechanisms involved in climate are using the same piece of evidence...but
arguing it shows completely different results.

Now do you understand why there are deniers out there? Even the scientists
can agree with each other. Where does that leave the rest of us?

Julian Hyde
General Manager
Reef Check Malaysia Bhd
03 2161 5948
www.reefcheck.org.my
Follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/rcmalaysia

"The bottom line of the Millenium Asessment findings is that human actions
are depleting Earth's natural capital, putting such strain on the
environment that the ability of the planet's ecosystems to sustain future
generations can no longer be taken for granted."


-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of David M.
Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010 10:11 PM
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] More La Ninia


   The claim you're trying to make is, frankly, laughable.  First, the
monthly
   temperature/monthly CO2 curve works in an opposite direction from what
   you're suggesting in this case.  If there were no terrestrial biota
taking
   up and releasing carbon dioxide, we wouldn't be seeing such a seasonal
cycle
   in CO2 concentrations.  So no, it's not the temperature driving the
seasonal
   cycles in CO2 concentrations, it's the biota.
   Dave
   On 11/30/2010 9:01 AM, Greg Challenger wrote:

     > Gene, please get your facts right. The annual zigzags in the Keeling
     > curve are seasonal changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels
     > triggered by seasonal changes in the balance between photosynthesis
     > (which removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere) and respiration
     > (which releases carbon dioxide to the atmosphere) in northern
hemisphere
     > terrestrial ecosystems.
     >
     > In the fall, deciduous species drop their leaves, other species stop
     > growing. Living plants need energy, and produce it by respiration.
     > Dead plants decompose, the bacteria and fungi responsible for that
     > decomposition produce energy by respiration, too. Respiration
dominates
     > the balance through the winter into the spring -- as it does so,
     > atmospheric CO2 concentrations increase. In the spring and summer,
     > plants leave out and grow -- photosynthesis dominates the balance,
and
     > atmospheric CO2 concentrations decrease. So, contrary to you comment,
     > it's not temperature driving the seasonal changes in CO2, but the
     biosphere.
     >
     > You really should invest in a fire extinguisher. The physics is
     > settled, whether or not you choose to pay attention to it.
     >
     Forgive me if I missed something, but are you arguing it is not factual
to
     suggest temperature has anything to do with seasonal fluctuation in
     atmospheric CO2 caused by photosynthesis, respiration and
decomposition?
     Arent you both talking about the same thing?


     Greg E. Challenger
     Marine Scientist/Principal
     Polaris Applied Sciences, Incorporated
     12525 131st Ct NE Kirkland, WA 98034
     425-823-4841
     425-823-3805 fx
     206-369-5686 cell
     visit us at: [1]www.polarisappliedsciences.com


     > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:50:36 -0500
     > From: [2]dave at fuzzo.com
     > To: [3]coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
     > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] More La Ninia
     >
     > Gene, please get your facts right. The annual zigzags in the Keeling
     > curve are seasonal changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels
     > triggered by seasonal changes in the balance between photosynthesis
     > (which removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere) and respiration
     > (which releases carbon dioxide to the atmosphere) in northern
hemisphere
     > terrestrial ecosystems.
     >
     > In the fall, deciduous species drop their leaves, other species stop
     > growing. Living plants need energy, and produce it by respiration.
     > Dead plants decompose, the bacteria and fungi responsible for that
     > decomposition produce energy by respiration, too. Respiration
dominates
     > the balance through the winter into the spring -- as it does so,
     > atmospheric CO2 concentrations increase. In the spring and summer,
     > plants leave out and grow -- photosynthesis dominates the balance,
and
     > atmospheric CO2 concentrations decrease. So, contrary to you comment,
     > it's not temperature driving the seasonal changes in CO2, but the
     biosphere.
     >
     > You really should invest in a fire extinguisher. The physics is
     > settled, whether or not you choose to pay attention to it.
     >
     > Dave
     >
     > On 11/29/2010 9:33 AM, Eugene Shinn wrote:
     > > I suspect that Arhenius did not know that if you raise the
     > > temperature you also raise the CO2 level.(thats the little annual
     > > spikes on the Keeling CO2 curve) Even if it was CO2 causing the
     > > cycles in deep sea cores described by Arrhenius what caused the CO2
     > > spikes.
     > >
     > >
     >
     > --
     > ------------------------------------------------------
     > David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786
     > 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787
     > Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [4]dave at fuzzo.com
     > USA | http: [5]http://fuzzo.com
     > ------------------------------------------------------
     >
     > "All drains lead to the ocean." -- Gill, Finding Nemo
     >
     > "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
     >
     > "No trespassing
     > 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     > Coral-List mailing list
     > [6]Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
     > [7]http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list

--
------------------------------------------------------
 David M. Lawrence        | Home:  (804) 559-9786
 7471 Brook Way Court     | Fax:   (804) 559-9787
 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [8]dave at fuzzo.com
 USA                      | http:  [9]http://fuzzo.com
------------------------------------------------------

"All drains lead to the ocean."  -- Gill, Finding Nemo

"We have met the enemy and he is us."  -- Pogo

"No trespassing
 4/17 of a haiku"  --  Richard Brautigan

References

   1. http://www.polarisappliedsciences.com/
   2. mailto:dave at fuzzo.com
   3. mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   4. mailto:dave at fuzzo.com
   5. http://fuzzo.com/
   6. mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   7. http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
   8. mailto:dave at fuzzo.com
   9. http://fuzzo.com/
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