[Coral-List] Need for more oil
Ed Blume
eblume2702 at gmail.com
Wed May 19 15:33:24 EDT 2010
I've seen estimates that the U.S. has enough flat rough space to produce
four times our current electricity need from solar. If I can dig out one of
the estimates, I'll post it.
Lifestyle changes are certainly out best options, but you know what Cheney
said, "Our lifestyle is non-negotiable."
Ed Blume
www.renewwisconsin.org
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM, fautin at ku.edu <fautin at ku.edu> wrote:
> In addition to being a coral reef biologist, I am a long-time bird-watcher
> (not birder, with its connotations of competitiveness). I was dismayed to
> learn recently that prairie chickens do not nest within an amazingly large
> distance from power lines (I was not amazed to learn they also avoid
> buildings). Thus, even if what is left of US midwest grasslands are
> otherwise fairly undisturbed, if there is a power line within sight, you
> are unlikely to see those birds. And, as Doug says, to get power from
> where there is abundant wind or sun but few people to where the people
> live requires such lines. Common when I was a child, prairie chickens are
> now nearly gone. I do not know what they see, hear, or feel -- but it is
> clear they perceive something. The old question is whether we are willing
> to forego air conditioners or microwave ovens, etc. to prevent the
> extirpation of prairie chickens (and who knows what else?). And that is
> where we can see and easily count -- compared to in the sea.
>
>
> Daphne G. Fautin
> Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
> Curator, Natural History Museum and Biodiversity Research Center
> Haworth Hall
> University of Kansas
> 1200 Sunnyside Avenue
> Lawrence, Kansas 66045-7534 USA
>
> telephone 1-785-864-3062
> fax 1-785-864-5321
> evo user name fautin
> website www.nhm.ku.edu/~inverts
>
> direct to database of hexacorals, including sea anemones
> newest version released 1 December 2009
> ***http://hercules.kgs.ku.edu/Hexacoral/Anemone2***
>
>
> On Tue, 18 May 2010, Douglas Fenner wrote:
>
> > I agree, to my knowledge not a single fossil fuel plant in the world
> manages
> > to sequester the carbon it produces yet (but maybe there are ones I don't
> > know about). One or two that were planned in the US were canceled, I
> > believe, maybe due to high costs or technical problems, I don't know.
> > As for visual pollution by wind turbines, well I tend to think
> beauty
> > is in the eye of the beholder. I suspect that anyone making a lot of
> money
> > in the oil industry thinks an oil refinery looks beautiful (gas flares
> > burning at night, all those lights on towers, kind of romantic way to
> read
> > your profit checks by?). Really, it does change your perspective, those
> > that may make profits from windmills won't have much sympathy for those
> that
> > want the unspoiled natural beauty. That is, the natural beauty of amber
> > waves of grain and green fields of corn, which totally replaced the North
> > American prairie, an ecosystem that was totally obliterated by white
> > settlers, with only minute scraps of it left in a few places (and a fair
> bit
> > on the western edge where it is too dry to farm, so cattle are run on it
> > instead of the bison that were killed to starve the Native Americans off
> the
> > plains so whites could take the land.) Likely those farms look beautiful
> to
> > those who make a good living off them. (By the way, I'm a U.S. citizen,
> one
> > who hopes coral reefs won't be obliterated like the prairies were.)
> > As for space for solar, there is vastly more space in the US
> southwest
> > deserts for solar instalations than ever will be needed. And in Germany
> > farmers have solar collectors all over their fields, and make money off
> the
> > cows feeding underneath them on the grass as well as the solar. You can
> do
> > both easily. There is plenty of room. More of a problem is that the
> desert
> > southwest is too far from the populous US east coast markets, and most of
> > the energy would be lost in the electric lines. But for Phoenix,
> Arizona, a
> > low-tech solar electric plant was cheaper and quicker to build than any
> > other kind of plant, and provides electricity best during peak demand, on
> > hot sunny days when everyone has their air conditioner on. Australia and
> > North Africa have enough desert for solar plants to power much of the
> world,
> > the problem is not space, it is distance from markets.
> > There are great technical hurdles, indeed. But as JFK said "We
> choose
> > to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is difficult."
> If
> > the alternative is to let climate change cause massive damage around the
> > world (like when Greenland melts and oceans drown many of the worlds
> largest
> > cities which are on coasts, or we have to put dikes around them all and
> huge
> > pumps like New Orleans and hope Hurricane Katrina doesn't hit. Estimates
> of
> > when Greenland will melt vary widely, I believe, and it's likely to be
> > hundreds of years or more.), should we be looking for excuses to not
> solve
> > the problems, or for ways to solve the problems???
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Quenton Dokken" <qdokken at gulfmex.org>
> > To: "'Eugene Shinn'" <eshinn at marine.usf.edu>;
> > <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Need for more oil
> >
> >> Strong commentary Gene. We must also deal with the issue of visual
> >> pollution by wind turbines and space allocations for solar. We seem to
> be
> >> caught between a rock and a hard place.
> >>
> >> Quenton
> >>
> >> Quenton Dokken, Ph.D.
> >> Executive Director
> >> Gulf of Mexico Foundation, Inc.
> >> PMB 51 5403 Everhart Rd.
> >> Corpus Christi, TX 78411
> >>
> >> Office: 3833 South Staples Suite S214
> >> Corpus Christi, TX 78411
> >>
> >> 361-882-3939 o
> >> 361-882-1262 f
> >> 361-442-6064 c
> >>
> >> www.gulfmex.org
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> >> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Eugene
> Shinn
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:01 AM
> >> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> >> Subject: [Coral-List] Need for more oil
> >>
> >>> Dear Listers who wish to end oil use. An interesting article was
> >>> published recently in the NYTimes titled "A Bad Bet On Carbon." The
> >>> article lists a number of problems with Co2 sequestration but the
> >>> significant one had to do with scale. Here is the direct quote.
> >>> "The third, and most vexing, problem has to do with scale. In 2009,
> >>> carbon dioxide emissions in the United States totaled 5.4 billion
> >>> tons. Lets assume that policymakers want to use carbon capture to
> >>> get rid of half of those emissions---say 3 billion tons per year.
> >>> That works out to about 8.2 million tons of carbon dioxide per day,
> >>> which would have to be collected and compressed to about 1,000 psi
> >>> (that compressed volume of carbon dioxide would be roughly
> >>> equivalent to the volume of daily global oil production).
> >>> In other words, we would need to find an underground location (or
> >>> locations) able to swallow a volume equal to the contents of 41 oil
> >>> supertankers each day, 365 days a year."
> >>> The rest of the article is about the 23,000 miles of new
> >>> pipeline needed and the social problems with property rights and the
> >>> 25% reduced output of power plants due to carbon capture.
> >>
> >> Any thinking person can see this is a near impossible task in the
> >> near term even if the figure is cut in half. Many look to France for
> >> Co2 reduction where its no secret that they do it using nuclear
> >> energy and reprocess the waste. They even export some electricity to
> >> other European nations. If you believe Co2 is a real problem for
> >> corals and want to reduce oil use we should do what the French did.
> >> That way we can remain productive and not depend on foreign sources
> >> of goods such as the computers on which we write these messages. Gene
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Gene
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
> >> ------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
> >> E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
> >> University of South Florida
> >> Marine Science Center (room 204)
> >> 140 Seventh Avenue South
> >> St. Petersburg, FL 33701
> >> <eshinn at marine.usf.edu>
> >> Tel 727 553-1158----------------------------------
> >> -----------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
More information about the Coral-List
mailing list