[Coral-List] Bill Raymond, Steve Mussman, Climate Change, GBR, & Skeptic Conversion
Jack Sobel
jack_sobel at verizon.net
Thu Nov 1 12:10:50 EDT 2012
Bill Raymond suggested that the question is no longer about whether the
climate is changing, but rather about whether anthropogenic activities are
(one of) the cause(s) of this change. I think this question has also
largely been answered. While Mr. Raymond doesn't cite any science
supporting his contention that anthropogenic activities are not responsible,
there is plenty of science supporting the major contribution caused by human
activity, even if you don't choose to believe the IPCC or scientific
consensus statements. It should give even skeptics like Mr. Raymond some
pause that this science includes work done by former climate skeptic
scientist Richard Muller as part of a group of eleven scientists working on
the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Project (funded in part by Charles
Koch). For those unfamiliar with Richard Muller, his conversion and the
work of this group, here are two links to an Op-Ed piece by Richard Muller
and to the Berkeley site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change
-skeptic.html?pagewanted=all
<http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-chang
e-skeptic.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0> &_r=0
http://berkeleyearth.org/results-summary/
Jack Sobel
4910 Earlston Drive
Bethesda, MD 20816
(301)320-0880
(202)262-6926
jack_sobel at verizon.net
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Today's Topics:
1. New Publication (Juan Carlos Marquez Hoyos)
2. Great Barrier Reef is rapidly losing coral (Steve Mussman)
3. Dr. Starck (Jim Hendee)
4. Re: Great Barrier Reef is rapidly losing coral (August Heim)
5. Re: Dr. Starck (Dennis Hubbard)
6. Re: Content filtered message notification (Dennis Hubbard)
7. climate change and the sun (Thomas Webler)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 07:27:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Juan Carlos Marquez Hoyos < <mailto:juanitomarquez at yahoo.com>
juanitomarquez at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Coral-List] New Publication
To: Coral List < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
<
<mailto:1351693622.86927.YahooMailNeo at web160104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
1351693622.86927.YahooMailNeo at web160104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Dear colleagues,
The following paper has been published:
M?rquez, J.C. and S. Zea. 2012. Parrotfish mediation in coral mortality and
bioerosion by the encrusting excavating sponge Cliona tenuis. Marine Ecology
33: 417?426.?
Please, feel free to wirte to me for a pdf.
Abstract
The parrotfish Sparisoma viride often grazes live coral from edges
undermined by the Caribbean encrusting and excavating sponge Cliona tenuis.
To test whether parrotfish biting action has an effect on the dynamics of
the sponge?
coral interaction, we manipulated access of parrotfishes to the sponge?coral
border in two species of massive corals. When parrotfish had access to the
border, C. tenuis advanced significantly more slowly into the coral
Siderastrea siderea than into the coral Diploria strigosa. When fish bites
were prevented, sponge spread into S. siderea was further slowed down but
remained the same for D. strigosa. Additionally, a thinner layer of the
outer coral skeleton was removed by bioerosion when fish were excluded, a
condition more pronounced in D. strigosa than in S. siderea. Thus, the speed
of sponge-spread and the extent of bioerosion by parrotfish was coral
species-dependent. It is hypothesized that coral skeleton architecture is
the main variable associated with such dependency. Cliona tenuis spread is
slow when undermining live S. siderea owing to the coral?s compact skeleton.
The coral?s smooth and hard surface promotes a wide and shallow parrotfish
bite morphology, which allows the sponge to overgrow the denuded area and
thus advance slightly faster. On the less compact skeleton of the brain
coral, D. strigosa, sponge spread is more rapid. This coral?s rather uneven
surface sustains narrower and deeper parrotfish bites which do not
facilitate the already fast sponge progress. Parrotfish corallivory thus
acts synergistically with C. tenuis to further harm corals whose skeletal
architecture slows sponge lateral spread. In addition, C. tenuis also
appears to mediate the predator?prey fish?coral interaction by attracting
parrotfish biting.
?
____________________________________________
Juan Carlos M?rquez Hoyos, Ph.D
Tel: (57) 316 8700480
<mailto:juancmarquezh at gmail.com> juancmarquezh at gmail.com
LinkedIn: <http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/juan-carlos-marquez/44/296/64>
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/juan-carlos-marquez/44/296/64
LinkedIn spanish:
<http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/juan-carlos-marquez/44/296/64/es>
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/juan-carlos-marquez/44/296/64/es
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:31:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Steve Mussman < <mailto:sealab at earthlink.net> sealab at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Coral-List] Great Barrier Reef is rapidly losing coral
To: Bill Raymond < <mailto:billraymond10 at yahoo.com> billraymond10 at yahoo.com>
Cc: " <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
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..net>
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Bill,
I certainly don't refer to everyone who disagrees with my view on
climate
change as a pseudo-scientist.
I honestly try to avoid what might be considered ridicule although I
feel
that some remarks deserve an aggressive challenge.
If you contend that AGW or what I refer to as climate change is based
on
pseudo-science, it becomes more difficult to respond graciously. But I
can
try.
Could you please explain why these well respected (not pseudo)
scientists
omitted the effects of the Sun from their consensus statement?
[1] <http://www.icrs2012.com/Consensus_Statement.htm>
http://www.icrs2012.com/Consensus_Statement.htm
Do you actually believe that there is a world-wide conspiracy to
mislead
based on data mined deliberately from maniplulated computer models?
You can respond off-list if you prefer. I'm uncomfortable using my name
as the subject line.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Raymond
>Sent: Oct 31, 2012 9:55 AM
>To: Coral List
>Subject: [Coral-List] Mussman
>
>You call anyone who disagrees with you a pseudo-scientist? Anthropogenic
Global Warming is pseudo-science. It has not been proven, yet you
ridicule
anyone who dares to challenge it.. When someone disagrees with AGW, you
throw in their face all the arguments for climate change. Climate change
is
not the issue; greenhouse gases being the cause is. You know the climate
has
changed many times before. Yet you continue to ignore the obvious cause:
the
sun. Pseudo-science is articles such as comparing the sun-spot cycle to
past
ones and concluding greenhouse gases must be the cause, with no
supporting
evidence other than computer models, which will show whatever you want
them
to. The IPCC, in considering the evidence, concludes the solar imput
since
1750 has not changed significantly to explain the present climate change,
but greenhouse gases have risen, ergo that must be the cause. During that
same period, the third lobe of the Little Ice Age proceeded, ca.
> 1775, and sea level DROPPED until the nineteenth century started,
glaciers
readvanced globally, and the only explanation is the sun. We may not
fully
understand the sun, but to rule it out as the cause of the present
climate
change is real pseudo-science.
>_______________________________________________
>Coral-List mailing list
> <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
References
1. <http://www.icrs2012.com/Consensus_Statement.htm>
http://www.icrs2012.com/Consensus_Statement.htm
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:19:10 -0400
From: Jim Hendee < <mailto:jim.hendee at noaa.gov> jim.hendee at noaa.gov>
Subject: [Coral-List] Dr. Starck
To: Coral-List < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
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<mailto:CA+OFz=fjm8j06r0ZU0WTzOspsru4yNmVb=newy7mS4fu9QQbQw at mail.gmail.com>
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Hey, folks, I know Dr. Starck is well known (now, anyway) and that he's
starting become celebrity status, and so is considered fair game and
out-of-reach for defamation litigation, but I would appreciate it if we do
not issue personal invectives against the fellow, especially since he's not
on the list.
Thanks,
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:32:56 -0400
From: August Heim < <mailto:august.heim at gmail.com> august.heim at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Great Barrier Reef is rapidly losing coral
To: Steve Mussman < <mailto:sealab at earthlink.net> sealab at earthlink.net>
Cc: " <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: < <mailto:EC3AA8DB-F705-47A9-AE60-C1FBBC3CD028 at gmail.com>
EC3AA8DB-F705-47A9-AE60-C1FBBC3CD028 at gmail.com>
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Why is this conversation continuing? The first rule of discourse is do you
forsee any conditions with which your mind will change? If not then there
is no point in discussing.
On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:31 AM, Steve Mussman wrote:
> <http://www.icrs2012.com/Consensus_Statement.htm>
http://www.icrs2012.com/Consensus_Statement.htm
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:53:56 -0400
From: Dennis Hubbard < <mailto:dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Dr. Starck
To: Coral-List < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
<
<mailto:CAFjCZNatkaDJK9eOUb82Xpwu_Dc4aeb9kvdxyePrzKVdyOADuw at mail.gmail.com>
CAFjCZNatkaDJK9eOUb82Xpwu_Dc4aeb9kvdxyePrzKVdyOADuw at mail.gmail.com>
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Thanks to Jim for calling me on this. I was thinking about my last line
while I trekked across campus to pick up lunch and would have probably
weighed in with an apology anyway. Actually, right now I'm more disappointed
with those we would refer to as "real scientists" than I am at those
"pseudo-scientists"
Dennis
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Jim Hendee < <mailto:jim.hendee at noaa.gov>
jim.hendee at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Hey, folks, I know Dr. Starck is well known (now, anyway) and that
> he's starting become celebrity status, and so is considered fair game
> and out-of-reach for defamation litigation, but I would appreciate it
> if we do not issue personal invectives against the fellow, especially
> since he's not on the list.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
--
Dennis Hubbard
Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
(440) 775-8346
* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:58:36 -0400
From: Dennis Hubbard < <mailto:dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Content filtered message notification
To: " <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" < <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
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Regarding the thread on climate skepticism, recent events may change all of
this. In class discussions we are often split between those students who
argue that New Orleans got what it should have expected being largely below
sea level and those that argue for social justice, citing the
disenfranchisement of those in the lower ninth ward. In truth, both have
valid points. However, I remember CNN coverage of the last storm (less than
a year ago) threatening New York City with Ali Velshi standing on the edge
of the East River. The storm surge (and tide) subsided just as the river was
starting to over-top the concrete. This time, however, it didn't stop and,
in addition to all that damage above ground, the subway flooded. This is
going to happen again..... and again. London has already built huge flood
gates as have other major financial centers. Global sea level will be higher
next year and storm intensity will be greater - only by a very small and
perhaps immeasurable amount, but eventually these factors will again
coalesce to create the next "perfect storm". So...... when the debate in my
class again comes around to why we continue to pour all those dollars into
New Orleans, I can add New York to the mix. Sea level is rising and weather
patterns are getting more variable. As a result, the coincidence of "freak"
events that cause new records will increase. Unfortunately, we initially
fixed on the term "global warming", which was a tough sell to skeptics.
Fortunately, this has morphed to "climate change", a term we can more
effectively champion - if we try.
Our main problem is that we are not particularly good at advocating our
position. So, in a way, we had it coming and should quit whining about other
people who are more effective in the public debate. We're getting our butts
kicked.... and for very good reason. I can remember when I started as a
young scientist - applied science was "dirty" and "beneath us". It was hard
to get my colleagues to either advocate their ideas.... or to get involved
in things like working with park management. Then, depending on how cynical
you are, a combination of increased public awareness and NSF funds getting
tighter encouraged us to start looking to organizations like NOAA and NPS
for support. However, we still hesitated to make our science accessible
because (and, again, depending on your level of cycisism) we either wanted
to maintain our "integrity" and "objectivity", or just thought the public
wasn't smart enough to understand all those complex ideas that we scientists
did.
SO, here we are. One could correctly note that the percentage of folks who
do not believe in climate change is pretty much the same as those who don't
believe in evolution. Whatever we attribute this to, we are losing the
debate. We can isolate ourselves in chat rooms and list serves pointing out
how evil those nay-sayers are or how foolish the public is to believe them,
or....... we can get off our butts and spend more intellectual energy
"getting dirty". We often lose sight of the fact that if we don't engage the
public, they won't embrace our views. Some on this list have worked very
hard to do just this and I apologize to them for lumping them into the
larger uncommunicative masses. It's easier for those of us in institutions
where undergraduate education is a higher priority than grantsmanship
because we have to face students who are smarter than we are every day.
However, we still need to figure out ways to get our of our comfort zone and
outside the college walls. And, that's not writing a book instead of an
article if it's going to be read by largely the same audience..... or
creating web sites that believers will flock to. It's talking to the Rotary
Club, the Chamber of Commerce or retirement homes and not giving that guest
lecture at another university. Web pages with tricky widgets are cool, but
that's not as effective as sitting down with a single "honest" skeptic (and
they do exist) and trying to talk to their reasonable side.
Sorry.... I've rambled on way too long, especially given recent
admonishments about length (my defense is that I rarely post). So I'll stop
abruptly, hoping that at least we won't have to open another 50 short
comments on Mr Starck. I'll try to spend more of my energy on the public and
less on arguing who's science is real and "pseudo".
Dennis
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Jim Hendee < <mailto:jim.hendee at noaa.gov>
jim.hendee at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Dennis, I think this didn't go through because of the attached little
> lobster icon. Try again.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: < <mailto:mailman-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
mailman-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> Date: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM
> Subject: Content filtered message notification
> To: <mailto:coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>
>
> The attached message matched the coral-list mailing list's content
> filtering rules and was prevented from being forwarded on to the list
> membership. You are receiving the only remaining copy of the
> discarded message.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dennis Hubbard < <mailto:dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
> To: <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:07:02 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] DR. Starck conflict of interest?
> Regarding the thread on climate skepticism, recent events may change
> all of this. In class discussions we are often split between those
> students who argue that New Orleans got what it should have expected
> being largely below sea level and those that argue for social justice,
> citing the disenfranchisement of those in the lower ninth ward. In
> truth, both have valid points. However, I remember CNN coverage of the
> last storm (less than a year ago) threatening New York City with Ali
> Velshi standing on the edge of the East River. The storm surge (and
> tide) subsided just as the river was starting to over-top the
> concrete. This time, however, it didn't stop and, in addition to all
> that damage above ground, the subway flooded. This is going to happen
> again..... and again. London has already built huge flood gates as
> have other major financial centers. Global sea level will be higher
> next year and storm intensity will be greater - only by a very small
> and perhaps immeasurable amount, but eventually these factors will
> again coalesce to create the next "perfect storm". So...... when the
> debate in my class again comes around to why we continue to pour all
> those dollars into New Orleans, I can add New York to the mix. Sea level
is rising and weather patterns are getting more variable. As a result, the
coincidence of "freak"
> events that cause new records will increase. Unfortunately, we
> initially fixed on the term "global warming", which was a tough sell to
skeptics.
> Fortunately, this has morphed to "climate change", a term we can more
> effectively champion - if we try.
>
> Our main problem is that we are not particularly good at advocating
> our position. So, in a way, we had it coming and should quit whining
> about other people who are more effective in the public debate. We're
> getting our butts kicked.... and for very good reason. I can remember
> when I started as a young scientist - applied science was "dirty" and
> "beneath us". It was hard to get my colleagues to either advocate
> their ideas.... or to get involved in things like working with park
> management. Then, depending on how cynical you are, a combination of
> increased public awareness and NSF funds getting tighter encouraged us
> to start looking to organizations like NOAA and NPS for support.
> However, we still hesitated to make our science accessible because
> (and, again, depending on your level of cycisism) we either wanted to
> maintain our "integrity" and "objectivity", or just thought the public
> wasn't smart enough to understand all those complex ideas that we
scientists did.
>
> SO, here we are. One could correctly note that the percentage of folks
> who do not believe in climate change is pretty much the same as those
> who don't believe in evolution. Whatever we attribute this to, we are
> losing the debate. We can isolate ourselves in chat rooms and list
> serves pointing out how evil those nay-sayers are or how foolish the
> public is to believe them, or....... we can get off our butts and
> spend more intellectual energy "getting dirty". We often lose sight of
> the fact that if we don't engage the public, they won't embrace our
> views. Some on this list have worked very hard to do just this and I
> apologize to them for lumping them into the larger uncommunicative
> masses. It's easier for those of us in institutions where
> undergraduate education is a higher priority than grantsmanship because we
have to face students who are smarter than we are every day.
> However, we still need to figure out ways to get our of our comfort
> zone and outside the college walls. And, that's not writing a book
> instead of an article if it's going to be read by largely the same
> audience..... or creating web sites that believers will flock to. It's
> talking to the Rotary Club, the Chamber of Commerce or retirement
> homes and not giving that guest lecture at another university. Web
> pages with tricky widgets are cool, but that's not as effective as
> sitting down with a single "honest" skeptic (and they do exist) and trying
to talk to their reasonable side.
>
> Sorry.... I've rambled on way too long, especially given recent
> admonishments about length (my defense is that I rarely post). So I'll
> stop abruptly, hoping that at least we won't have to open another 50
> short comments on this guy Starck who seems totally underwhelming as a
> topic of discussion. I'll spend my energy on the public and not
> learning more about this clown.
>
> [?]
>
> Dennis
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:19 AM, martina <
> <mailto:m.milanese at studioassociatogaia.com>
m.milanese at studioassociatogaia.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Ian for stressing this important node.
>> The point, however, remains that we know what's going on. But people
>> like Dr. Starck get to the news. We don't...
>>
>> Maybe besides finding effective ways to communicate about climate
>> change (and many other topics) we should also help people understand
>> what is like being a researcher... I mean, the good that kids dream
>> of, but also the bad that we deal with on a daily basis - including
>> but not limited to struggling with spending reviews, unstable careers
>> and harsh private choices. Never asked yourself "what for? And sitll
running...
>>
>> Another point that may be good to clarify with the public is that
>> scientists judge and validate science (although I agree that the
>> peer-reviewed process is not flawless). That's a great example of
>> people working for free for a common cause that is the advancement of
>> our understanding of the world, for the common good.
>>
>> Are there interests at stake in this? For sure yes, nothing human is
>> perfect. Yet, I like to believe that most of the system is real...
>>
>> Martina
>>
>> Il 29/10/12 16.11, Ian Zink ha scritto:
>> > All,
>> > I'd just like to add an interesting point to the topic - Dr. Starck
>> heavily criticizes ecologists for what has been dubbed "getting rich"
>> off their work. Dr. Starck states that lack of disclosure of
>> conflicts of interests in funding that overshadows outcomes of
>> studies: I would assume implying that one hand washes the other and
>> resulting in some large scale conspiracy that governments and
>> researchers and managers all lie in the same bed to vindictively control
access to resources?
>> >
>> > Has anyone questioned the conflict of interest from Dr. Starck's
>> persepective? Among other great works and groups Dr. Starck has been
>> a member of (he has spent a substantial effort extorting his life's
>> works - which DO include a number interesting and novel works), he is
>> a member of the Scientific Adivsory Panel of the Australian Climate
>> Science Coalition, "a climate change skeptics website created by the
>> the Australian Environment Foundation (AEF), a spin-off group created
>> by the the corporate funded think tank, the Institute of Public Affairs."
>> >
>> <http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Australian_Climate_Science>
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Australian_Climate_Science
>> _Coalition
>> >
>> > Check out the Aust. Climate Science Coalition, interesting...
>> > <http://www.auscsc.org.au/> http://www.auscsc.org.au/
>> >
>> > Institute of Public Affairs (for which Dr. Starck writes articles
>> though I can't readily find a more solid connection) "...supports the
>> free market of ideas, the free flow of capital, a limited and
>> efficient government, evidence-based public policy, the rule of law,
>> and representative democracy." <http://ipa.org.au/about>
http://ipa.org.au/about
>> >
>> > Supposedly, the IPA is well connected to big corporate donors: "The
>> > IPA
>> funded by its membership which include both private individuals and
>> businesses.. Among these businesses are ExxonMobil,[4] Telstra, WMC
>> Resources, BHP Billiton, Phillip Morris,[5] Murray Irrigation
>> Limited,[6] and Visy Industries.. IPA donors have also included
>> Clough Engineering, Caltex, Shell and Esso..[7] Other donors were
>> electricity and mining companies, as well as British American Tobacco
>> (BAT).[7]" The IPA also has ties to American think-tanks such as the
Heartland Institute.
>> >
>> > One can keep searching for hours to try to find the ties between
>> climate change-denial webs; one thing is certain though, Dr. Starck
>> has his own agenda, and doesn't seem to back it up with research,
>> just personal opinions.
>> >
>> > FOLLOW THE MONEY.
>> >
>> > Thanks for reading my rant (or continuous cut and pastes from
>> > various
>> sources).
>> > -Ian
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From:
<mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov[coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml
> coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov[coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.
>> .noaa.gov] on behalf of Dishon L.. Murage [lionelmurage at yahoo.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 1:31 AM
>> > To: <mailto:coral-list at coral..aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral..aoml.noaa.gov
>> > < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Great Barrier Reef is rapidly loosing
>> > coral
>> (Eugene Shinn)
>> >
>> > Sorry,but my impression on the argument by Dr Stark is that its
>> > rather
>> confusing and not well presented.Climate change is no longer an issue
>> for discussion but a reality and engaging in an argument stating
>> otherwise indicates a person who wants to draw attention to himself
>> or someone who has strong vested interest that need protected by denying
the reality.
>> >
>> > That's my take on Dr Stark presentation.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Dishon Lionel Murage
>> > P.O. Box 1976-80100,
>> > Mombasa,
>> > Kenya
>> >
>> >
>> > e-mail: <mailto:lionelmurage at yahoo.com> lionelmurage at yahoo.com
>> > Tel: +254722270298 or +254713900361
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: " <mailto:coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"<
>> <mailto:coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> > To: <mailto:coral-list at coral..aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral..aoml.noaa.gov
>> > < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:00 PM
>> > Subject: Coral-List Digest, Vol 50, Issue 21
>> >
>> > Send Coral-List mailing list submissions to
>> > <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > <mailto:coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > <mailto:coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Coral-List digest...", e.g., cut and paste
>> > the Subject line from the individual message you are replying to.
>> > Also, please only include quoted text from prior posts that is
>> > necessary to make your point; avoid re-sending the entire Digest back
to the list.
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Great Barrier Reef is rapidly loosing coral (Eugene Shinn)
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:26:14 -0400
>> > From: Eugene Shinn< <mailto:eshinn at marine.usf.edu>
eshinn at marine.usf.edu>
>> > Subject: [Coral-List] Great Barrier Reef is rapidly loosing coral
>> > To: <mailto:coral-list at coral..aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral..aoml.noaa.gov
>> > < <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> > Message-ID:< <mailto:a06230936ccadc2a54198@[131.247.136.119]>
a06230936ccadc2a54198@[131.247.136.119]>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>> >
>> > Dear listers, I just received a most interesting publication on the
>> > GBR situation. It is from Dr. Walter Stark who I briefly knew in
>> > the 1960s when he was receiving his doctorate from the University
>> > of Miami. Walter grew up in the Florida Keys and after receiving
>> > his degree sailed to Australia where he has remained as a
>> > researcher and Dive tour operator. Walter is an original and has
>> > been around longer than most Australian reef researchers. He
>> > received no government research funding and therefore has a
>> > decidedly different view of what is happening to the GBR. I know
>> > many readers will disagree but it may be worth examining his
>> > alternative view of what is happening on the GBR. Remember, I am
>> > just the messenger. Gene
>> >
>> <http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2012/10/reef-alarmists>
http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2012/10/reef-alarmists
>> -jump-the-shark
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> > No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
>> > ------------------------------------
>> > -----------------------------------
>> > E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
>> > University of South Florida
>> > College of Marine Science Room 221A
>> > 140 Seventh Avenue South
>> > St. Petersburg, FL 33701
>> > < <mailto:eshinn at marine.usf.edu> eshinn at marine.usf.edu>
>> > Tel 727 553-1158----------------------------------
>> > -----------------------------------
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Coral-List mailing list
>> > <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> > <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>> >
>> > End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 50, Issue 21
>> > ******************************************
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Coral-List mailing list
>> > <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> > <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Coral-List mailing list
>> > <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> > <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coral-List mailing list
>> <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dennis Hubbard
> Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
> (440) 775-8346
>
> * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
> Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
>
>
>
>
--
Dennis Hubbard
Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
(440) 775-8346
* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:34:53 -0400
From: Thomas Webler < <mailto:twebler at seri-us.org> twebler at seri-us.org>
Subject: [Coral-List] climate change and the sun
To: <mailto:billraymond10 at yahoo.com> billraymond10 at yahoo.com,
<mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Message-ID:
<
<mailto:CAGtW6v1RfEU62PjUFMvgOQz1WHSp=Z2R2A4RerTaUVjJzocjHQ at mail.gmail.com>
CAGtW6v1RfEU62PjUFMvgOQz1WHSp=Z2R2A4RerTaUVjJzocjHQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear Mr. Raymond,
As one of the vast majority of scientists who have examined the science
behind the causes and effects of global climate change, I want to assure you
that humans *are* changing the atmosphere and that these changes
*are*resulting in changes in precipitation, temperature, and the severity of
storms. The changes in solar luminosity have been studied and found to be
insufficient to cause the changes in warming that we are measuring.
I have to be blunt and say that you are wrong and, that promoting false
understandings encourages society to continue to fail to act to remedy our
effect. The consequence is that we will not leave our children a world that
is as beautiful, benevolent, or safe as the world our forefathers left us.
If you are a scientist, you need to look at the data, not just the politics.
If you are not a scientist, you should take your contributions to a
political space.
Tom Webler
--
Thomas Webler
Research Fellow
Social & Environmental Research Institute Suite 404
278 Main Street
Greenfield MA 01370 USA
<http://www.seri-us.org> www.seri-us.org
------------------------------
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