[Coral-List] what agency should list corals

Rudy Bonn rudy_bonn at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 6 15:29:35 EDT 2013

In response to Gene's post, which he is correct BTW, but we do know that the disease that has nearly wiped out elkhorn coral in the Florida Keys and the bacterium associated with the disease is the same bacterium found in the human intestinal tract.  Serratia marcescens was determined to be the source and a coral snail the vector, transmitting it from coral to coral.  What are we going to do, dig up every septic tank in the keys?  Not likely, see  
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › Journal List › PLoS One › v.6(8); 2011
we know this, is there anything being done?  when are all the keys going to have advanced waste water treatment?  whats the problem, economics, politics, is there a social science involvement?  Should homeowners care enough to get their leaking septic systems repaired?  you tell me!

Rudy S Bonn

--- On Sat, 4/6/13, coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:

From: coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <coral-list-request at coral.aoml..noaa.gov>
Subject: Coral-List Digest, Vol 56, Issue 13
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 12:00 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. What agency should list corals (Eugene Shinn)
   2. Re: Request for a student (John McManus)


Message: 1
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 11:24:39 -0400
From: Eugene Shinn <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
Subject: [Coral-List] What agency should list corals
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Message-ID: <515EECB7.8090406 at mail.usf.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I agree with everything Quenton Dokken says. How can we not all agree 
with what he says? However, none of what he has pointed out explains how 
listing corals will save them because we simply do not understand what 
is killing them. We do know periods of coral demise have happened in the 
not to distant past. It is unlikely humans could have been responsible 
back then. That is not to say humans are not doing something to day that 
is causing demise. The problem is we just do not know what it is so we 
do not know what to protect them from.Giving money to tax free Non 
Government Organization may make us feel good, especially the rich who 
need tax breaks, but their legal means of forcing government agencies to 
list corals under the Endangered Species Act will not solve the problem 
if we do not know what the problems are. In fact, listing makes it even 
more difficult (e.g.permitting) to do the science needed to determine 
the problem.If we were dealing with fish being over fished then we know 
what to do. Simply use the ESA to stop overfishing.In the case of corals 
where disease is the main problem listing will not bring them back until 
we have the science that pinpoints the source of the disease. If we knew 
that we would know what to do. Sociology, which may manage human 
behavior, certainly will not bring the corals back with out scientific 
knowledge to guide social change.Gene


No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
University of South Florida
College of Marine Science Room 221A
140 Seventh Avenue South
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
<eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
Tel 727 553-1158
---------------------------------- -----------------------------------


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 12:31:06 -0400
From: John McManus <jmcmanus at rsmas.miami.edu>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Request for a student
To: <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <008b01ce321a$f9a1c4b0$ece54e10$@rsmas.miami.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Dennis,

Here are some early readings:
Polunin NV, Roberts C eds. (1996) Reef Fisheries (Fish & Fisheries Series).
Johannes RE (1992) Words of the Lagoon: Fishing and Marine Lore in the Palau
District of Micronesia. University of California Press 
Johannes RE ed. (1989) Traditional Ecological Knowledge: A Collection of
Essays. IUCN

Many more that were published subsequently. The literature on this is quite

BTW, I always say "Social science is not rocket science, it is far more
complex and difficult."


-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Dennis Hubbard
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 1:08 PM
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: [Coral-List] Request for a student

I have an undergraduate student (double major bio-geo) who is interested in
fisheries. He is putting together a proposal to examine the role that local
traditions play (or don't) in the fisheries management practices of Tonga,
Samoa and Maori (or other spots in the region). Might anyone have any
recommendations on where he might start to look for information? Or even
better, might anyone have contacts (NGO, management agency; tribal leaders)
he could use to see whether what he is thinking about might be practical (he
wants to actually spend time living and working with the local communities
and fishers in these places)? Given all the back-and-forth about about
social versus natural versus hard versus soft science, I sense that there
are many folks lurking on the list who would be able to help someone get
started doing what we've been talking about . This is for a Watson
Fellowship that would occur after his senior year (a year from now).
He's a very bright and diligent student.... still with the idealism that's
been beaten out of most of us.

Feel free to contact me off-line.... and thanks!


Dennis Hubbard
Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
(440) 775-8346

* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
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