[Coral-List] NYT Article on "Predatory Open-Access Journals"

Thu Apr 25 10:08:09 EDT 2013

Again, I agree with Kerim and Ulf on the role of traditional academic journals staying around for quite some time and being needed. But somehow quite a few of these journals are getting so expensive that even the likes of Harvard University balked at the cost of keeping libraries

Take a look at these articles:
http://www.boston.com/yourtown/cambridge/articles/2012/04/28/harvard_pushes_back_against_academic_publishers_pricing_encourages_open_access/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/apr/24/harvard-university-journal-publishers-prices

http://openscience.com/journal-publishers-prices-are-too-high-even-for-the-university-of-harvard/

There needs to be a middle ground. Access to scientific information is of vital importance to practicing good science, and the cost must somehow be kept within the reach of all, whether in the developed world or in developing countries.

I think Harvard University has a well balanced take on the issue.

Milton Ponson, President
Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
(Rainbow Warriors International)
Tel. +297 568 5908
PO Box 1154, Oranjestad 
Aruba, Dutch Caribbean 
Email: southern_caribbean at yahoo.com
http://www.rainbowwarriors.net

To unite humanity in a global society dedicated to a sustainable way of life

________________________________
 From: Ulf Erlingsson <ceo at lindorm.com>
To: karim <karim.benmustapha at instm.rnrt.tn> 
Cc: 'RainbowWarriorsInternational' <southern_caribbean at yahoo.com>; 'Derek Alexander Soto Rodriguez' <dereksoto at gmail.com>; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov 
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] NYT Article on "Predatory Open-Access Journals"

Dear Kerim, thank you for those words but it seems they were intended for Milton Ponson and not for me. 

Anyway, I'd like to quote my late colleague Valter Axelsson when speaking of scientific inquiry, "You have to be the best in the world at what you are doing. Otherwise there is no point in carrying on." Imagine a world in which "what you are doing" gets increasingly more narrow, until each and every one is "the best in the world" at what they are doing - since nobody else is doing the same thing. That is where we are headed with the open access and paid submissions which amount in effect to advertisement. To be meaningful science has to be focused on the important questions, and that requires some method of sifting through the sand to find the diamonds. My prediction is that the traditional journals will have an important role to play doing just that, for a long time to come..

Ulf

On 2013-04-25, at 06:24, karim wrote:

Dear all
>I fully agree with Dr erlingsson definition of good science and good
>scientist. Im a tunisian marine biologist and still I do not knew if I
>fulfill those criteria nevertheless I should insist that a good scientist is
>a scientist doing #sciences with consciences#, that means doing our job for
>the well being of peoples which is closely linked (included) in/to the well
>being of ecosystems on earth. And the last UN green economy (for Sustainable
>development) issue isn't as #green# at it should be...first of all let us
>speaks about green meaning. It shouldn't be about green washing like UNEP is
>pushing for with the support of government and private company as well. 
>We should keep in mind the scarcity of the natural resources and the
>increasing pressure on earth ecosystems... I do
 not see it green to just
>makeup the reality of the global social and economical crisis as UN is doing
>(see the last RIO+20 summit); Making it a financial issue (UN, corporations
>and Governments are willing to give a financial value to ecosystem
>functioning look at the CO2 market for instance or the UNEP ERDD program)
>will not bring the solution but will deepen the ecological and social
>crisis.
>So open science and open access journals via an open society should be dealt
>with caution even though access to tradional journals isn't an easy think
>for us, neither doing good sciences due to several inhibiting factors...
>kerim     
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: RainbowWarriorsInternational [mailto:southern_caribbean at yahoo.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 05:32 PM
>To: Ulf Erlingsson
>Cc: Derek Alexander Soto Rodriguez; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] NYT Article on "Predatory Open-Access Journals"
>
>Ulf, as a citizen of Sweden, member of the EU like the Kingdom of the
>Netherlands of which I am a citizen, you must be aware of the fact that the
>EU espouses open science which includes "citizen science" in its upcoming
>Horizon 2020 research funding program.
>
>Open science entails open source, open access and collaborative (research)
>networks. In this wider setting librarians are going to have a hard time.
>
>Traditional peer-reviewed science journals, conferences etc. are well
>equipped through knowledgeable librarians to deal with the issues at hand.
>
>What the Green Economy the UN heralds as the stepping stone for sustainable
>development with job creation in new areas will require a more open society
>and thus open science.
>
>As a
 member of seven global federated networks of organizations each dealing
>with different areas of sustainable development I have found that it becomes
>increasingly hard to determine what good science is whether in a more
>traditional setting or a more open.
>
>I am a mathematician by training and in my own disciple there are now over
>300 specialized fields and we as one of the few disciplines actually have a
>Map of Mathematics to make sense of our own backyard.
>
>The point I am trying to make is that by virtue of what constitutes good
>science in general a good scientist focuses on one or more areas of specific
>research, given his/her skills, talents, and available resources and
>backing.
>
>The Internet is an enabling technology for open science, but it begs the
>question, how do we go from the traditional setting to the open science
>setting, changing nothing in the traditional, yet incorporating these
 new
>players and areas of non-traditional research?
>
>In Sweden and many EU member countries libraries and librarians are well
>equipped to deal with the job, the rest of the world is not so fortunate and
>that is where these predatory open access journals try to find a foothold.
>
>I only have to bring up the issue of what constitutes good science for the
>global climate change debate to make my point.
>
>I have posted the discussion about predatory open access journals in other
>lists, e.g. for the World Wide Web Consortium for Semantic web technologies,
>which deals with stuff like Dublin Core Meta Data standards, linked data,
>big data and themes known to knowledgeable librarians and what I have found
>so far is that the NY Times article has scratched the surface of a subject
>not yet fully on the radar of scientists in general as important.
>
>One of my areas of interest and expertise is ICT as enabling
 technologies
>for research networks, research in general and open science with the
>Internet and related technologies as indispensable.
>
>The Internet holds great potential for improving the field of practice of
>science, but is has challenges we need to address, and IMHO the NY Times
>correctly signaled one of these challenges.
>
>
> 
>Milton Ponson, President
>Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
>(Rainbow Warriors International)
>Tel. +297 568 5908
>PO Box 1154, Oranjestad 
>Aruba, Dutch Caribbean 
>Email: southern_caribbean at yahoo.com
>http://www.rainbowwarriors.net
>
>To unite humanity in a global society dedicated to a sustainable way of life
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Ulf Erlingsson
 <ceo at lindorm.com>
>To: RainbowWarriorsInternational <southern_caribbean at yahoo.com> 
>Cc: Linda Pikula - NOAA Federal <linda.pikula at noaa.gov>; Derek Alexander
>Soto Rodriguez <dereksoto at gmail.com>; "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"
><coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> 
>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] NYT Article on "Predatory Open-Access Journals"
>
>
>
>Milton, here I just have to express my dissenting opinion, as a scientist.
>Librarians (at least in my country, Sweden) are very well educated, they are
>recruited from PhDs and other (real) doctors (not MDs or JDs), and then they
>get significant additional education. And this kind of stuff is what they
>are there for. Researchers and scientists can't do everything by themselves,
>that is why there are supporting staff positions, from engineers to
>librarians to secretaries to boat crews. And at my department,
 one person
>exclusively managing the maps. God bless them all.
>
>Ulf Erlingsson, Ph.D.
>President and CEO
>Lindorm, Inc.
>http://lindorm.com
>
>
>On 2013-04-23, at 13:43, RainbowWarriorsInternational wrote:
>
>Yes, I did see that loud and clear. But I have talked at length with some
>librarians I know at US Universities exactly about publishers of journals
>and I do not think it is fair that librarians should be doing the dirty work
>for scientists and researchers all by themselves.
>
>
>>
>
>>
> 
>>
>Milton Ponson, President
>>
>Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
>>
>(Rainbow Warriors International)
>>
>Tel. +297 568 5908
>>
>PO Box 1154, Oranjestad 
>>
>Aruba, Dutch Caribbean 
>>
>Email: southern_caribbean at yahoo.com
>>
>http://www..rainbowwarriors.net
>>
>
>>
>To unite humanity in a global society dedicated to a sustainable way of
>>life
>
>
>>
>
>>
>________________________________
>>
>From: Linda Pikula - NOAA Federal <linda..pikula at noaa.gov>
>>
>To: RainbowWarriorsInternational <southern_caribbean at yahoo.com> 
>>
>Cc: Derek Alexander Soto Rodriguez <dereksoto at gmail..com>;
>>"coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa..gov> 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:12 AM
>>
>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] NYT Article on "Predatory Open-Access Journals"
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>Dear Milton,
>>
>
>>
>If you read the NY Times article you will see that a Librarian, Jeffrey
>>Beall at the University of Colorado, Denver has prepared an extensive list
>of predatory journals.
>
>
>>
>Linda Pikula
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 11:51 PM, RainbowWarriorsInternational
>><southern_caribbean at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>Derek,
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>This is a problem which manifests itself in every discipline and it preys
>>on basic human needs for recognition. The current publishing world of
>academia itself is to blame partially.
>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>Because in each field of science scientists and researchers usually have a
>>short list of peer-reviewed journals and conferences in their mental narrow
>focus, only librarians typically have a (often not much) better overview of
>available reputable journals and
 conferences in respective fields.
>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>It is high time for a global registry of scientific publishers and their
>>respective journals and a form of rating and grading them.
>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
> 
>>
>
>>>
>Milton Ponson, President
>>
>
>>>
>Rainbow Warriors Core Foundation
>>
>
>>>
>(Rainbow Warriors International)
>>
>
>>>
>Tel. +297 568 5908
>>
>
>>>
>PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
>>
>
>>>
>Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
>>
>
>>>
>Email: southern_caribbean at yahoo.com
>>
>
>>>
>http://www.rainbowwarriors..net
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>To unite humanity in a global society dedicated to a sustainable way of
>>life
>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>________________________________
>>
>
>>>
> From: Derek Alexander Soto Rodriguez <dereksoto at gmail.com>
>>
>
>>>
>To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>
>
>>>
>Sent: Monday, April 8, 2013 10:56 AM
>>
>
>>>
>Subject: [Coral-List] NYT Article on "Predatory Open-Access Journals"
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>I want to share an article from the New York Times on so called
>>
>
>>>
>pseudo-scientific journals and conferences and would like to hear opinions
>>
>
>>>
>from other members of the community.
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>http://nyti.ms/17mHk0Y
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>Cheers!
>>
>
>>>
>--
>>
>
>>>
>*Derek A. Soto Rodriguez*
>>
>
>>>
>*Master's Candidate*
>>
>
>>>
>*Coral Biology and Ecology Laboratory
>>
>
>>>
>Department of Marine Sciences*
>>
>
>>>
>*University of Puerto Rico, Mayagüez Campus
>>
>
>>>
>Call Box 9000, Mayagüez, PR 00681
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>Tel: 1-787-899-2048 ext. 272 (Lab)
>>
>
>>>
>Fax: 1-787-899-5500*
>>
>
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>>
>
>>>
>Coral-List mailing list
>>
>
>>>
>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>
>
>>>
>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>>
>
>>>
>Coral-List mailing list
>>
>
>>>
>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>
>
>>>
>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>-- 
>>
>Linda Pikula
>>
>NOAA Regional Librarian
>>
>Library Director Miami Regional Library AOML/NHC
>>
>4301 Rickenbacker CSWY
>>
>Miami, Fl.33133
>>
>305-361-4429
>>
>305-361-4552
>>
>_______________________________________________
>>
>Coral-List mailing list
>>
>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>
>http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>
>>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>Coral-List mailing list
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