[Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread

[Alice Grainger]

Steve,
Just to say, I also agree with you, including this in dive
certification courses could go a long way to giving the issue
credibility and visibility. I support your efforts whole heartedly.
Best
Alice

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Alice Grainger <alicetgrainger at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> I see what you mean. I think perhaps I have been 'lucky', in that
> everyone I know, everyone I have spoken to about this is in agreement.
> I have never met a climate sceptic!
> Best
> Alice
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Dear Alice,
>>
>> You are certainly spot on to suggest that certification agencies need to be
>> more aggressive in promoting responsible diving practices as part of their
>> efforts to address coral reef conservation. But I would have to take issue
>> with you linking the development of an emotional connection to the reefs
>> with acceptance of the very real threats that climate change holds for coral
>> reefs world-wide. In my experience the two concepts are often totally
>> disconnected. Many divers care deeply about coral reefs, but reject the idea
>> that climate change is anything more than misguided hyperbole. Too many
>> conservation-oriented divers still reject the idea that we need to reduce
>> CO2 emissions and/or our dependency on fossil fuels. This is exactly why we
>> are asking DEMA and other leaders in the scuba industry to take a stand.
>> Their current policy of sidestepping the issue by refusing to address it
>> directly only serves to encourage disbelief and prolong debate. Real
>> leadership calls for tough and sometimes unpopular decisions when there is
>> the most at stake. Regardless of motive, remaining silent is tantamount to
>> taking the easy way out.
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Alice Grainger
>>>Sent: Aug 6, 2013 7:20 AM
>>>To: Douglas Fenner
>>>Cc: coral list
>>>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>
>>>It should also be noted that while, of course, reducing diver impact
>>>on reefs popular with tourists may not have a significant positive
>>>impact on reef health when factoring in acidicfation etc. Perhaps,
>>>though, if responsible diver practice was promoted as an esential
>>>aspect of certificaiton and a requirement for holding a professional
>>>qualification (maybe with requirement from the WRSTC),every student
>>>diver would come away from their course with an understanding of the
>>>fragility of reef systems and therefore an awareness and emotional
>>>investment in the necessity for reducing CO2 emissions, fishing
>>>subsidies etc, This woud then result in growing consenus and support
>>>for environmental protection, reducation of fossil fuels etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Douglas Fenner
>>> wrote:
>>>> I support reducing local impacts to reefs as much as we can, including
>>>> diver damage. As someone pointed out correctly, the more we can reduce
>>>> local impacts, the stronger reefs will be when mass coral bleaching
>>>> starts
>>>> killing corals in an ever more serious way. This is the idea of
>>>> resilience. Some divers and dive operators find reducing diver impact
>>>> appealing, because it is an impact that divers can reduce. It is
>>>> something
>>>> that they can do to do their part to help. I'm all for that.
>>>> The problem is that diver impact, while important for some small areas
>>>> of reef, is one of the most minor impacts on the world's coral reefs.
>>>> While it will contribute to improving the future prospects of reefs, if
>>>> it
>>>> is the only thing we do, reefs will continue to degrade, including those
>>>> where diver impacts are minimized.
>>>> Increasing reef resilience by reducing impacts can buy us a little time
>>>> to get climate change under control.
>>>> But if we want to save reefs, we MUST stop global warming and
>>>> acidification. We also must reduce local impacts, primarily overfishing,
>>>> nutrification, chemical pollution, coral disease, and introduced species
>>>> like lionfish, to mention some of the major categories of local impacts.
>>>> NONE of these local impacts will be easy to stop.
>>>> A recent paper by Kennedy et al. ended with the sentence, "We also
>>>> provide unambiguous evidence that local efforts must be accompanied by
>>>> rigorous global action to mitigate climate change." Their study found
>>>> that
>>>> removing major local impacts could delay the destruction of reefs, but
>>>> unless climate change was stopped, reef destruction happened anyhow. The
>>>> greatest delay came from stopping nutrients and stopping fishing for
>>>> parrotfish, and only provided a 10 year delay before the destruction
>>>> caused
>>>> by climate change set in. Removing all local impacts did not change the
>>>> final outcome, it was always the destruction of the reef, unless climate
>>>> change was stopped. If climate change is stopped, stopping local impacts
>>>> improved the situation. (They didn't even model the effects of stopping
>>>> all diver damage, because it is such a small impact it has no hope of
>>>> stopping the degradation of the world's reefs. Note also that they found
>>>> that mass coral bleaching is the effect of climate change that will kill
>>>> the reefs before acidification.)
>>>> The survival of reefs depends on stopping climate change, it does not
>>>> depend on stopping diver impacts. Scientists have publicly called for
>>>> action on climate change. We need the dive industry to call for action on
>>>> climate change as well. It is great to reduce diver damage, but we must
>>>> act on BOTH climate change and local impacts to have any hope of saving
>>>> reefs. The same reefs that much of the dive industry depends on for it's
>>>> income.
>>>> The time has come for the dive industry, from divers to operators to
>>>> organizations like DEMA to stand up and be heard and be counted,
>>>> supporting
>>>> action on climate change.
>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>
>>>> Kennedy, E.V. et al. 2013. Avoiding coral reef functional collapse
>>>> requires local and global action. Current Biology 23: 912-918.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jay Burkos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doug and Julian,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand both of your views on climate change and how we as
>>>>> individuals have little ability to cut down on major factors. (Even
>>>>> total deniers struggle with how to be better stewards against
>>>>> pollution, which NO ONE denies is a major problem).
>>>>>
>>>>> So I explain it like this: whether a person believes in man impacted
>>>>> climate shifts or not, a damaged reef must work twice as hard to
>>>>> repair itself AND survive. Just like a hospital patient who is
>>>>> immunologically compromised by AIDS or another similar disease, a
>>>>> break, cut or other damage creates a major problem that endangers the
>>>>> entire reef.
>>>>>
>>>>> By being divers who not only avoid damaging reefs, but actively work
>>>>> to restore corals and remove debris while lobbying against pollution,
>>>>> we can actively help in a large way.
>>>>>
>>>>> That, and kick the guy you catch dumping oil illegally.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Douglas Fenner
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > No need for trepidation! I agree!! I am sure that the reason that some
>>>>> > dive operators try to encourage and teach their divers to be more
>>>>> > responsible about the reef is that it is something they can obviously
>>>>> > do
>>>>> to
>>>>> > help. Everything they do to protect their local reefs does help, no
>>>>> > question about that. Building an environmental ethic in divers is a
>>>>> > very
>>>>> > good thing to do, no question. Further, ALL of us are frustrated that
>>>>> > there is so little we can do to make a difference on climate change.
>>>>> > We
>>>>> > just want to encourage people to start thinking of next steps to add
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > their diver education. A few comments, hints, that there are other
>>>>> > major
>>>>> > problems that will have to be solved if we are to save reefs, some
>>>>> obvious
>>>>> > like reducing overfishing, sedimentation and nutrient runoff, and
>>>>> > others
>>>>> > that will take entire societies and the governments to do, like
>>>>> > tackling
>>>>> > climate change. Like Lad was saying, divers can be champions for
>>>>> > reefs.
>>>>> > We need to encourage that, and encourage them to not only not bash
>>>>> > them
>>>>> > when they're diving, but also support doing meaningful things to move
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > renewable energy. So far the diving industry seems to be quiet on
>>>>> > that,
>>>>> we
>>>>> > want to encourage people to start thinking about that problem too and
>>>>> > supporting action.
>>>>> > We all have different things we can contribute, and it will take
>>>>> > everybody working on this to make it happen. Divers not bashing reefs
>>>>> > is
>>>>> > part of the solution. Divers and the dive industry speaking up about
>>>>> > climate change is another part of the solution. There are lots of
>>>>> > other
>>>>> > parts as well, the list of threats to reefs is long. It's also good to
>>>>> > keep in mind which are the big threats worldwide that we absolutely
>>>>> > HAVE
>>>>> to
>>>>> > fix to save reefs, and which are the more minor solutions that are
>>>>> > great
>>>>> to
>>>>> > contribute to as well. We're saying we need people, including the dive
>>>>> > industry, to recognize that climate change is one of the biggest
>>>>> > threats
>>>>> to
>>>>> > reefs, and speak up about that as well as champion good diving
>>>>> > practices.
>>>>> > Cheers, Doug
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Julian @ Reef Check <
>>>>> julian at reefcheck.org.my
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> It is with trepidation that I raise a voice in an argument with Doug,
>>>>> with
>>>>> >> all his years of experience, but here goes.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Yes, climate change is an important factor. But how many of us really
>>>>> feel
>>>>> >> we can do something about it?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> But maybe we can do something to change behaviour on an individual
>>>>> >> basis
>>>>> >> and
>>>>> >> turn the people who are damaging reefs (and they are legion) into
>>>>> >> people
>>>>> >> who
>>>>> >> care for reefs. Maybe this group could then be motivated to help to
>>>>> >> address,
>>>>> >> or at least start lobbying about, the wider issues such as climate
>>>>> change.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think I've said enough on this thread now! But many thanks to those
>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> you
>>>>> >> who have responded with some useful suggestions.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Julian Hyde
>>>>> >> General Manager
>>>>> >> Reef Check Malaysia Bhd
>>>>> >> 03 2161 5948
>>>>> >> www.reefcheck.org.my
>>>>> >> Follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/rcmalaysia
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> HEARD A FISH BOMB? TEXT US AT 012 647 1294 WITH DATE, TIME AND
>>>>> >> LOCATION!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "The bottom line of the Millenium Assessment findings is that human
>>>>> actions
>>>>> >> are depleting Earth's natural capital, putting such strain on the
>>>>> >> environment that the ability of the planet's ecosystems to sustain
>>>>> future
>>>>> >> generations can no longer be taken for granted."
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> >> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Douglas
>>>>> >> Fenner
>>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, 1 August, 2013 9:07 AM
>>>>> >> To: coral list
>>>>> >> Subject: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Well said, Lad, I agree.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I fully support minimizing diver damage. We need to reduce all kinds
>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> human-produced damaging effects on coral reefs. Lad and Steve keep
>>>>> >> bringing
>>>>> >> up climate change. What does that have to do with diver damage??
>>>>> >> Diver damage is important, isn't it?? But they are right. Climate
>>>>> change
>>>>> >> is the 800 pound gorilla in the corner of the room. If we don't do
>>>>> >> anything
>>>>> >> about that, we could stop all diver damage, and it would be like
>>>>> >> re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
>>>>> >> In fact, if you look at any assessment or rating or ranking of the
>>>>> >> causes of coral reef decline around the world, diver damage is always
>>>>> near
>>>>> >> the bottom of the list. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I
>>>>> >> remember,
>>>>> >> "Reefs at Risk" lists overfishing and destructive fishing as the
>>>>> >> Number
>>>>> One
>>>>> >> LOCAL threat to coral reefs, pollution (including sedimentation,
>>>>> nutrient
>>>>> >> runoff and chemical pollution) as the other big threat. The top
>>>>> >> GLOBAL
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> future threats to coral reefs are climate change and acidification.
>>>>> The
>>>>> >> extensive review of threats by the NOAA team reviewing the petition
>>>>> >> for
>>>>> >> endangered coral status came to the same conclusion, as have others.
>>>>> >> These are the big things that we have to take care of if we are going
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> have reefs left decades from now.
>>>>> >> I do not mean to under-estimate the threat from divers. In some
>>>>> >> locations they can do serious damage, there are published papers
>>>>> >> demonstrating this. But we need to keep it in perspective. Coral
>>>>> disease
>>>>> >> has killed vastly more coral in the Caribbean & Florida than divers.
>>>>> >> A
>>>>> >> single hurricane can kill millions, maybe billions of tons of coral.
>>>>> >> I
>>>>> saw
>>>>> >> corals in Cozumel recovering after Hurricane Gilbert, in spite of
>>>>> >> 2000
>>>>> >> dives
>>>>> >> a day on just 15 miles of reefs. Reefs are fully capable of
>>>>> >> recovering
>>>>> >> from
>>>>> >> hurricanes, hurricanes have been going on for hundreds of millions of
>>>>> years
>>>>> >> and the reefs are still here (granted, they are brief events while
>>>>> >> human
>>>>> >> caused stress is chronic).
>>>>> >> SO, while I support reducing diver damage, and it is important in
>>>>> some
>>>>> >> areas, if that is the primary focus of concern for us, and for the
>>>>> >> dive
>>>>> >> industry, we are going to loose the reefs, and it IS re-arranging the
>>>>> deck
>>>>> >> chairs on the Titanic. We have to solve the big problems, the primary
>>>>> >> causes of reef decline or else we are wasting our time on reducing
>>>>> >> diver
>>>>> >> damage.
>>>>> >> Steve and Lad are fundamentally right, if the public (including the
>>>>> >> dive
>>>>> >> industry) and governments don't get to work in a serious way on
>>>>> >> climate
>>>>> >> change, we are going to loose the coral reef ecosystems (they will
>>>>> become
>>>>> >> dominated by algae and be algae beds with a few scattered corals).
>>>>> >> We as a world community are going to loose a lot more, too. A recent
>>>>> study
>>>>> >> found that just the release of methane from Siberian permafrost
>>>>> >> caused
>>>>> by
>>>>> >> global warming, will cause (if we let global warming continue) about
>>>>> >> $60
>>>>> >> TRILLION dollars damage in addition to the rest of the damage climate
>>>>> >> change
>>>>> >> will do, which is much larger. That is just less than a whole year
>>>>> >> of the whole world economy ($70 trillion). Think what that will do to
>>>>> >> the world economy, and you realize the magnitude of the threat.
>>>>> >> Killing
>>>>> >> off
>>>>> >> coral reef ecosystems, bad as it would be, would be a small part of
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> problem for humanity.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Global Price Tag for Arctic Thawing: $60 Trillion
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://weather.yahoo.com/global-price-tag-arctic-thawing-60-trillion-1841275
>>>>> >> 80.html
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Cheers, Doug
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Lad Akins wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> HI All,
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I've been reading the diver impact thread over the last few days -
>>>>> >>> it
>>>>> >>> seems to flare up every year or two and I'd like to throw in another
>>>>> >>> slightly different point of view to consider. In most parts of the
>>>>> >>> world, especially the Caribbean, diver damage is an undetectable
>>>>> >>> signal compared to natural disturbances and other human induced
>>>>> >>> impacts (storms, bleaching, ocean acidification, overfishing, etc).
>>>>> >>> Yes, it's easy to point a finger at a diver touching the bottom or a
>>>>> >>> wayward gauge, but look at what happens in one winter blow, not even
>>>>> >>> a
>>>>> >>> hurricane, or from turtles grazing on sponges and you'll see more
>>>>> >>> damage than divers cause in a year. I'm not saying we shouldn't
>>>>> >>> encourage good behavior, proper buoyancy control and a better
>>>>> >>> understanding of the marine ecosystem, but realistically, putting
>>>>> >>> significant time and effort into diver regulation is not going to
>>>>> >>> solve any problems.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Thinking more broadly about conservation of coral reefs, divers and
>>>>> >>> snorkelers are the true supporters of conservation efforts. If it
>>>>> >>> were not for them (us - if you venture into the sea to conduct your
>>>>> >>> research, for you too are a diver), who would provide public support
>>>>> >>> for protection of this resource unseen to most? How many of us reach
>>>>> >>> out to the public to help them better understand the issue? A few on
>>>>> >>> the list preach communication of scientific research to the public,
>>>>> >>> but most on the list are content to conduct research (often diving
>>>>> >>> to
>>>>> >>> do so), and publish the results in a journal read only by peers.
>>>>> >>> Protection of coral reef ecosystems is only going to come with broad
>>>>> >>> public support. And public support is not going to come from those
>>>>> >>> who don't have the opportunity to learn about the sea first-hand.
>>>>> >>> Restricting divers to distant viewing of marine life is only going
>>>>> >>> to
>>>>> >>> reduce the intimate connections with the reef system that are
>>>>> >>> necessary to build support for difficult decisions that do matter.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I caution the easy finger pointing towards an industry who brings
>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >>> vast majority of stakeholders into the conservation family. I would
>>>>> >>> encourage the discussion of regulation on water quality issues,
>>>>> >>> protection from overharvest and clean energy. Tough issues, but ones
>>>>> >>> that will make a real difference.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Lad
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> **************************
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Lad Akins
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Director of Special Projects
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> REEF
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> P O Box 370246
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> 98300 Overseas Hwy
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Key Largo FL 33037
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> (305) 852-0030 w
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> (305) 942-7333 c
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> www.REEF.org
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Lad at REEF.org
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>> >>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> >>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> PO Box 7390
>>>>> >> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>>
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