[Coral-List] Diver impacts to reefs
Michael Risk
riskmj at mcmaster.ca
Thu Aug 8 12:39:41 EDT 2013
All very good and motherhoodish, until near the end.
If you do your homework, you will discover that those nations with the highest per-capita carbon outputs are "developed" ones, such as the US, Canada, and Australia, topped only by ME countries awash in petroleum and petrodollars. Russia, China and India are well down and, when "we" preach top them about climate change, they reply "clean up your own act first." A fair comment…
On 2013-08-08, at 8:52 AM, Jay Burkos wrote:
> I think we can all agree that politicians are for the most part simply
> self interested. They don't do what is best for the country...let
> alone the planet.
>
> One of the areas that must be addressed and could make a major impact
> in the western hemisphere would be a national moratorium on coastal
> development. Also, since the US Supreme Court authorized eminent
> domain use for increasing tax bases, could they not use it for
> reclaiming coastal lands to undevelop and restore as coastal marshland
> and natural resource areas? Locally, you can push your town, county,
> state, etc to create "no cut" natural plant and grasses buffers along
> streams and waterways. Such efforts increase green space, provide
> strong sources of filtration that help reduce nitrates and phosphates,
> and also help conserve native species.
>
> While global warming is an important issue, our impact in the US,
> while large, is mere microns of the carbon footprint of India, China
> and Russia. They have no interest in changing their ways and levels
> of pollution consistently increase.
>
> So act by example, then act locally by proposing smart and frankly,
> fun policies to beautify your community. At the same time you are
> creating a pollution buffer that can help save the reefs.
>
> Jay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 8, 2013, at 8:36 AM, Rudy Bonn <rudy_bonn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Im very sorry that divers sometimes get paper cuts to their skin, or usually the fingers, what do you think you have done to that coral that you innocently brushed up against? You broke the SML of the coral, opening up a channel to pathogens, which could kill that coral. In the Florida keys, every year, they have a mini season for lobster, I and friends of mine, have witnessed first hand people turning over coral heads to get the lobsters, they don't care, they wanna be the big guy capturing more lobsters than anyone else on the boat, I'll bet, that they even bet on who is going to bring in the limit, and the biggest lobster, this is just one example mind you, I also agree that climate change ie, warming sst's and ocean acidification are a bigger threat. Corals today are under a tremendous amount of pressure from many sources; pollution, warming sst's, acidification, physical impacts from vessels and divers and snorkelers, destructive
>> fishing practices ad infinitum, so, where do we start, do we talk to the politicians in Washington about reducing CO2 emissions , do we mention that as the arctic permafrost thaws, it releases tons of methane into the atmosphere? If we are going to save the reefs, from extinction, which is a possibility, it is going to take a global effort, reducing one stressor, is at least a beginning, who knows it may lead to others when the diving public realizes that coral reefs are dying all over the world, how do we accomplish that? I don't know do you? you know we scientist always talk about having a better informed public, I don't think we are very good at it!
>>
>> Rudy S Bonn
>> Marine Educator/Biologist
>> Miami, Florida
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 2:25 PM
>> Subject: Coral-List Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12
>>
>>
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>> make your point; avoid re-sending the entire Digest back to the list.
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. PLOS1 Paper relating to management of divers on reefs
>> (Magnus Johnson)
>> 2. Re: NOAA Denies Application (Will Nuckols)
>> 3. Re: Divers and coral reef damage and a a two meter distance
>> (brucewda at rogers.com)
>> 4. Re: Fwd: Diver damage thread (Steve Mussman)
>> 5. Re: Fwd: Diver damage thread (Jay Burkos)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:41:55 +0000
>> From: "Magnus Johnson" <m.johnson at hull.ac.uk>
>> Subject: [Coral-List] PLOS1 Paper relating to management of divers on
>> reefs
>> To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> Message-ID:
>> <8A3EA8C56DC9804680CDA8CD57F3FFD53752B8FB at PAT-DG1.scar.hull.ac.uk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Apparently the link I provided last time didn't work (sorry):
>>
>> The Relationship between Diver Experience Levels and Perceptions of Attractiveness of Artificial Reefs - Examination of a Potential Management Tool
>>
>> http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal..pone.0068899
>>
>> Cheers, Magnus
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 09:54:04 -0400
>> From: "Will Nuckols" <wnuckols at erols.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] NOAA Denies Application
>> To: <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> Message-ID: <055f01ce9375$94ac9c80$be05d580$@com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are often calls for new laws and regs to protect ocean resources, but
>> possibly more importantly we need to properly implement the existing laws
>> and regs already on the books.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good to see NOAA saying no to the GA Aquarium's request.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we are just as vigilant with the implementation of all laws that dictate
>> the resources NOAA is entrusted to protect the world's oceans will be the
>> better for it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> William H. Nuckols III
>> Principal
>> W. H. Nuckols Consulting
>>
>> <http://whnuckolsconsulting.com/govrelations.htm> Government Relations l
>> <http://whnuckolsconsulting.com/stratcom.htm> Strategic Communications l
>> <http://whnuckolsconsulting.com/policy.htm> Policy Analysis l
>> <http://whnuckolsconsulting.com/tech.htm> Technology Solutions
>> Capitol Hill, Washington, DC
>> will at whnuckolsconsulting.com
>> <http://www.whnuckolsconsulting.com/> www.WHNuckolsconsulting.com
>> 202-484-1390
>>
>> 443-994-1493 cell
>>
>> Follow Will on <http://twitter.com/#!/enviroxpert> Twitter at
>> <http://twitter.com/#!/enviroxpert> @enviroxpert on
>> <http://pinterest.com/willnuckols/> Pinterest at
>> <http://pinterest.com/willnuckols/> http://pinterest.com/willnuckols/
>> and on linkedIn at <http://www.linkedin.com/in/whnuckols/>
>> www.linkedin.com/in/whnuckols/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Mussman
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:16 PM
>> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> Subject: [Coral-List] NOAA Denies Application
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please, just allow a shout-out to NOAA Fisheries.
>>
>>
>>
>> Way to go. Thank you. You are restoring my faith in humanity.
>>
>>
>> <http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/20130806_georgiaaquarium.html>
>> http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/20130806_georgiaaquarium.html
>>
>> Ecstatic Regards, if there is such a thing,
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Mussman
>>
>> Sea Lab Diving
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Coral-List mailing list
>>
>> <mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>
>> <http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 06:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: brucewda at rogers.com
>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Divers and coral reef damage and a a two
>> meter distance
>> To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1375883923.38851.YahooMailNeo at web162202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Dear coral-list readers,
>>
>> I am a snorkeler of many years and recently, 2011, a scuba diver.? I too find myself getting really close to life on the reef for pictures.? Some rather amazing shots are all over a reef.? I have been on one reef, and I don't recall which one it was, where the rule getting off the boat was no gloves allowed.? When I asked why I was told that without gloves people touch so much less.? These guys are right.? I've never used gloves and I always dive in a shorty wetsuit..? Yes, I admit that once in a while I might brush, ever so lightly against a fragment of coral and I receive the nastiest of paper cut like injuries.? I'm not being silly here, these little things are more than annoying, they sting and last for days.? They are clear motivation to extend every effort to stay off the corals, don't touch anything.? Wearing gloves and a full wet suit might will allow me to survive being clumsy, no gloves and a shorty and you bet I'm keenly aware of my
>> every movement near the corals, and everything else. This practice of no gloves could be extended to no full style wet suits allowed.I advocate the no gloves and shorty wetsuits along with effective buoyancy control.? Respect the reef or come back with raser cuts that won't heal for a week.
>>
>>
>> The ability of coral to cut, and other things to sting you is no mistake in evolution, it is to these delicate creatures survive by creating an incentive for other creatures to not disturb them.? Let's get that incentive working for their survival along with all the other protective and restorative actions we might find appropriate.
>>
>> Bruce Davenport
>> Niagara Falls, Ontario
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:02:45 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>> To: "frahome at yahoo.com" <frahome at yahoo.com>,
>> "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> Message-ID:
>> <9993890.1375884165928.JavaMail.root at mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>>
>> Dear Francesca,
>>
>> Your characterization of the average modern-day recreational diver is
>> broadly accurate and I would add that many in the diving industry are
>> complicit in developing the stereotype. It is currently the popular image
>> that the industry chooses to project and sell. You are also correct to
>> assume that we can?t expect dive operators to chastise their clients for
>> expanding their carbon footprints by traveling to dive in remote locations
>> spewing CO2 all along the way. At the same time, there may be effective ways
>> to change the paradigm if we can first come to recognize that transformation
>> is required. A responsible approach need not be self-defeating. I believe
>> that we can continue to enjoy diving on healthy reefs in wild blue oceans,
>> maintain a high standard of living and resolve these problems.
>>
>> The diving industry must first have the courage to lead by openly
>> recognizing that prompt action is called for on both the local and global
>> levels to deal with land-based sources of pollution, sedimentation,
>> over-fishing and climate change. They can encourage divers to work to
>> improve their diving skills and knowledge of coral reef ecology; reduce
>> their emissions through simple actions like driving more fuel efficient
>> vehicles, changing to CFL or LED light bulbs, powering down electronics,
>> using less water, and recycling. And perhaps most importantly, a responsible
>> diving industry can encourage divers to support business and political
>> leaders who actively promote policies that will shift our world towards more
>> renewable, sustainable energy production. If just these simple steps can be
>> implemented, we will have moved in the right direction towards preserving
>> valued coral reefs for generations to come.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "frahome at yahoo.com"
>>> Sent: Aug 6, 2013 5:15 PM
>>> To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"
>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>
>>> Several posters mentioned that divers do dive cause they like what they see
>> and thus they are inclined to protect it.. Unfortunately I have a different
>> experience and unless I am diving with scientists or researchers I haven't
>> noticed any above average environmental sensitivity among recreational
>> divers than the one you could detect among those sitting under an umbrella
>> on the beach. The main drivers for nowadays mass recreational diving, I have
>> found, are depth records, big fishes sightseeing often wishing they were in
>> a plate or on a hook, "I dive so I am cool" kind of attitudes and maybe
>> photography. Of course there are exceptions but I do not expect divers
>> campaigning or acting to save reefs more than someone sitting at home
>> watching documentaries, but likely I am wrong.
>>>
>>> Also I can't imagine diving operators telling their customers they
>> shouldn't have flew to that site, taken that boat, stayed at that resort and
>> eaten fish for dinner or at least that they shouldn't do it that often, nor
>> lobbying the government to quit oil subsidies and account for its
>> externalities so the price will raise and better represent oil true cost.
>>>
>>> What kind of stewardship are we expecting from them? Having them asking
>> someone else to reduce their footprint than themselves or their clients? If
>> so, who and in which way? I am sincerely wishing for an answer that would
>> maybe relieve some guilt from taking a plane and go diving somewhere and be
>> more effective than buying carbon offsets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Francesca
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Douglas Fenner
>>> To: coral list
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 11:01 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>
>>>
>>> I support reducing local impacts to reefs as much as we can, including
>>> diver damage. As someone pointed out correctly, the more we can reduce
>>> local impacts, the stronger reefs will be when mass coral bleaching starts
>>> killing corals in an ever more serious way. This is the idea of
>>> resilience. Some divers and dive operators find reducing diver impact
>>> appealing, because it is an impact that divers can reduce. It is something
>>> that they can do to do their part to help. I'm all for that.
>>> The problem is that diver impact, while important for some small areas
>>> of reef, is one of the most minor impacts on the world's coral reefs.
>>> While it will contribute to improving the future prospects of reefs, if it
>>> is the only thing we do, reefs will continue to degrade, including those
>>> where diver impacts are minimized.
>>> Increasing reef resilience by reducing impacts can buy us a little time
>>> to get climate change under control.
>>> But if we want to save reefs, we MUST stop global warming and
>>> acidification. We also must reduce local impacts, primarily overfishing,
>>> nutrification, chemical pollution, coral disease, and introduced species
>>> like lionfish, to mention some of the major categories of local impacts.
>>> NONE of these local impacts will be easy to stop.
>>> A recent paper by Kennedy et al. ended with the sentence, "We also
>>> provide unambiguous evidence that local efforts must be accompanied by
>>> rigorous global action to mitigate climate change." Their study found that
>>> removing major local impacts could delay the destruction of reefs, but
>>> unless climate change was stopped, reef destruction happened anyhow. The
>>> greatest delay came from stopping nutrients and stopping fishing for
>>> parrotfish, and only provided a 10 year delay before the destruction caused
>>> by climate change set in. Removing all local impacts did not change the
>>> final outcome, it was always the destruction of the reef, unless climate
>>> change was stopped. If climate change is stopped, stopping local impacts
>>> improved the situation. (They didn't even model the effects of stopping
>>> all diver damage, because it is such a small impact it has no hope of
>>> stopping the degradation of the world's reefs. Note also that they found
>>> that mass coral bleaching is the effect of climate change that will kill
>>> the reefs before acidification.)
>>> The survival of reefs depends on stopping climate change, it does not
>>> depend on stopping diver impacts. Scientists have publicly called for
>>> action on climate change. We need the dive industry to call for action on
>>> climate change as well. It is great to reduce diver damage, but we must
>>> act on BOTH climate change and local impacts to have any hope of saving
>>> reefs. The same reefs that much of the dive industry depends on for it's
>>> income.
>>> The time has come for the dive industry, from divers to operators to
>>> organizations like DEMA to stand up and be heard and be counted, supporting
>>> action on climate change.
>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>
>>> Kennedy, E.V. et al. 2013. Avoiding coral reef functional collapse
>>> requires local and global action. Current Biology 23: 912-918.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jay Burkos wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug and Julian,
>>>>
>>>> I understand both of your views on climate change and how we as
>>>> individuals have little ability to cut down on major factors. (Even
>>>> total deniers struggle with how to be better stewards against
>>>> pollution, which NO ONE denies is a major problem).
>>>>
>>>> So I explain it like this: whether a person believes in man impacted
>>>> climate shifts or not, a damaged reef must work twice as hard to
>>>> repair itself AND survive. Just like a hospital patient who is
>>>> immunologically compromised by AIDS or another similar disease, a
>>>> break, cut or other damage creates a major problem that endangers the
>>>> entire reef.
>>>>
>>>> By being divers who not only avoid damaging reefs, but actively work
>>>> to restore corals and remove debris while lobbying against pollution,
>>>> we can actively help in a large way.
>>>>
>>>> That, and kick the guy you catch dumping oil illegally.
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Douglas Fenner
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No need for trepidation! I agree!! I am sure that the reason that
>> some
>>>>> dive operators try to encourage and teach their divers to be more
>>>>> responsible about the reef is that it is something they can obviously
>> do
>>>> to
>>>>> help. Everything they do to protect their local reefs does help, no
>>>>> question about that. Building an environmental ethic in divers is a
>> very
>>>>> good thing to do, no question. Further, ALL of us are frustrated that
>>>>> there is so little we can do to make a difference on climate change.
>> We
>>>>> just want to encourage people to start thinking of next steps to add to
>>>>> their diver education. A few comments, hints, that there are other
>> major
>>>>> problems that will have to be solved if we are to save reefs, some
>>>> obvious
>>>>> like reducing overfishing, sedimentation and nutrient runoff, and
>> others
>>>>> that will take entire societies and the governments to do, like
>> tackling
>>>>> climate change. Like Lad was saying, divers can be champions for
>> reefs.
>>>>> We need to encourage that, and encourage them to not only not bash them
>>>>> when they're diving, but also support doing meaningful things to move
>> to
>>>>> renewable energy. So far the diving industry seems to be quiet on
>> that,
>>>> we
>>>>> want to encourage people to start thinking about that problem too and
>>>>> supporting action.
>>>>> We all have different things we can contribute, and it will take
>>>>> everybody working on this to make it happen. Divers not bashing reefs
>> is
>>>>> part of the solution. Divers and the dive industry speaking up about
>>>>> climate change is another part of the solution. There are lots of
>> other
>>>>> parts as well, the list of threats to reefs is long.. It's also good
>> to
>>>>> keep in mind which are the big threats worldwide that we absolutely
>> HAVE
>>>> to
>>>>> fix to save reefs, and which are the more minor solutions that are
>> great
>>>> to
>>>>> contribute to as well. We're saying we need people, including the dive
>>>>> industry, to recognize that climate change is one of the biggest
>> threats
>>>> to
>>>>> reefs, and speak up about that as well as champion good diving
>> practices.
>>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Julian @ Reef Check <
>>>> julian at reefcheck.org.my
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is with trepidation that I raise a voice in an argument with Doug,
>>>> with
>>>>>> all his years of experience, but here goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, climate change is an important factor. But how many of us really
>>>> feel
>>>>>> we can do something about it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But maybe we can do something to change behaviour on an individual
>> basis
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> turn the people who are damaging reefs (and they are legion) into
>> people
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> care for reefs. Maybe this group could then be motivated to help to
>>>>>> address,
>>>>>> or at least start lobbying about, the wider issues such as climate
>>>> change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I've said enough on this thread now! But many thanks to those
>> of
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> who have responded with some useful suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julian Hyde
>>>>>> General Manager
>>>>>> Reef Check Malaysia Bhd
>>>>>> 03 2161 5948
>>>>>> www.reefcheck.org.my
>>>>>> Follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/rcmalaysia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HEARD A FISH BOMB? TEXT US AT 012 647 1294 WITH DATE, TIME AND
>> LOCATION!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The bottom line of the Millenium Assessment findings is that human
>>>> actions
>>>>>> are depleting Earth's natural capital, putting such strain on the
>>>>>> environment that the ability of the planet's ecosystems to sustain
>>>> future
>>>>>> generations can no longer be taken for granted."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Douglas
>>>>>> Fenner
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 1 August, 2013 9:07 AM
>>>>>> To: coral list
>>>>>> Subject: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well said, Lad, I agree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully support minimizing diver damage. We need to reduce all
>> kinds
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> human-produced damaging effects on coral reefs.. Lad and Steve keep
>>>>>> bringing
>>>>>> up climate change. What does that have to do with diver damage??
>>>>>> Diver damage is important, isn't it?? But they are right. Climate
>>>> change
>>>>>> is the 800 pound gorilla in the corner of the room. If we don't do
>>>>>> anything
>>>>>> about that, we could stop all diver damage, and it would be like
>>>>>> re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
>>>>>> In fact, if you look at any assessment or rating or ranking of the
>>>>>> causes of coral reef decline around the world, diver damage is always
>>>> near
>>>>>> the bottom of the list. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I
>> remember,
>>>>>> "Reefs at Risk" lists overfishing and destructive fishing as the
>> Number
>>>> One
>>>>>> LOCAL threat to coral reefs, pollution (including sedimentation,
>>>> nutrient
>>>>>> runoff and chemical pollution) as the other big threat. The top
>> GLOBAL
>>>> and
>>>>>> future threats to coral reefs are climate change and acidification.
>>>> The
>>>>>> extensive review of threats by the NOAA team reviewing the petition
>> for
>>>>>> endangered coral status came to the same conclusion, as have others.
>>>>>> These are the big things that we have to take care of if we are going
>> to
>>>>>> have reefs left decades from now.
>>>>>> I do not mean to under-estimate the threat from divers. In some
>>>>>> locations they can do serious damage, there are published papers
>>>>>> demonstrating this. But we need to keep it in perspective. Coral
>>>> disease
>>>>>> has killed vastly more coral in the Caribbean & Florida than divers.
>> A
>>>>>> single hurricane can kill millions, maybe billions of tons of coral.
>> I
>>>> saw
>>>>>> corals in Cozumel recovering after Hurricane Gilbert, in spite of 2000
>>>>>> dives
>>>>>> a day on just 15 miles of reefs. Reefs are fully capable of
>> recovering
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> hurricanes, hurricanes have been going on for hundreds of millions of
>>>> years
>>>>>> and the reefs are still here (granted, they are brief events while
>> human
>>>>>> caused stress is chronic).
>>>>>> SO, while I support reducing diver damage, and it is important in
>>>> some
>>>>>> areas, if that is the primary focus of concern for us, and for the
>> dive
>>>>>> industry, we are going to loose the reefs, and it IS re-arranging the
>>>> deck
>>>>>> chairs on the Titanic. We have to solve the big problems, the primary
>>>>>> causes of reef decline or else we are wasting our time on reducing
>> diver
>>>>>> damage.
>>>>>> Steve and Lad are fundamentally right, if the public (including the
>>>>>> dive
>>>>>> industry) and governments don't get to work in a serious way on
>> climate
>>>>>> change, we are going to loose the coral reef ecosystems (they will
>>>> become
>>>>>> dominated by algae and be algae beds with a few scattered corals)..
>>>>>> We as a world community are going to loose a lot more, too. A recent
>>>> study
>>>>>> found that just the release of methane from Siberian permafrost caused
>>>> by
>>>>>> global warming, will cause (if we let global warming continue) about
>> $60
>>>>>> TRILLION dollars damage in addition to the rest of the damage climate
>>>>>> change
>>>>>> will do, which is much larger. That is just less than a whole year
>>>>>> of the whole world economy ($70 trillion). Think what that will do
>> to
>>>>>> the world economy, and you realize the magnitude of the threat.
>> Killing
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> coral reef ecosystems, bad as it would be, would be a small part of
>> the
>>>>>> problem for humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Global Price Tag for Arctic Thawing: $60 Trillion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://weather.yahoo.com/global-price-tag-arctic-thawing-60-trillion-1841275
>>>>>> 80.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Lad Akins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HI All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been reading the diver impact thread over the last few days - it
>>>>>>> seems to flare up every year or two and I'd like to throw in another
>>>>>>> slightly different point of view to consider. In most parts of the
>>>>>>> world, especially the Caribbean, diver damage is an undetectable
>>>>>>> signal compared to natural disturbances and other human induced
>>>>>>> impacts (storms, bleaching, ocean acidification, overfishing, etc).
>>>>>>> Yes, it's easy to point a finger at a diver touching the bottom or a
>>>>>>> wayward gauge, but look at what happens in one winter blow, not even
>> a
>>>>>>> hurricane, or from turtles grazing on sponges and you'll see more
>>>>>>> damage than divers cause in a year. I'm not saying we shouldn't
>>>>>>> encourage good behavior, proper buoyancy control and a better
>>>>>>> understanding of the marine ecosystem, but realistically, putting
>>>>>>> significant time and effort into diver regulation is not going to
>>>>>>> solve any problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thinking more broadly about conservation of coral reefs, divers and
>>>>>>> snorkelers are the true supporters of conservation efforts. If it
>>>>>>> were not for them (us - if you venture into the sea to conduct your
>>>>>>> research, for you too are a diver), who would provide public support
>>>>>>> for protection of this resource unseen to most? How many of us reach
>>>>>>> out to the public to help them better understand the issue? A few on
>>>>>>> the list preach communication of scientific research to the public,
>>>>>>> but most on the list are content to conduct research (often diving to
>>>>>>> do so), and publish the results in a journal read only by peers...
>>>>>>> Protection of coral reef ecosystems is only going to come with broad
>>>>>>> public support. And public support is not going to come from those
>>>>>>> who don't have the opportunity to learn about the sea first-hand.
>>>>>>> Restricting divers to distant viewing of marine life is only going to
>>>>>>> reduce the intimate connections with the reef system that are
>>>>>>> necessary to build support for difficult decisions that do matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I caution the easy finger pointing towards an industry who brings the
>>>>>>> vast majority of stakeholders into the conservation family. I would
>>>>>>> encourage the discussion of regulation on water quality issues,
>>>>>>> protection from overharvest and clean energy. Tough issues, but ones
>>>>>>> that will make a real difference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **************************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lad Akins
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Director of Special Projects
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> REEF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P O Box 370246
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 98300 Overseas Hwy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Key Largo FL 33037
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (305) 852-0030 w
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (305) 942-7333 c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.REEF.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lad at REEF.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml..noaa.gov
>>>>>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> PO Box 7390
>>>>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3209/6537 - Release Date:
>>>> 07/30/13
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> PO Box 7390
>>>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>>>
>>>>> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> PO Box 7390
>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>
>>> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> http://coral.aoml..noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral..aoml.noaa.gov
>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:01:10 -0400
>> From: Jay Burkos <jayburkos at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>> To: "frahome at yahoo.com" <frahome at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> Message-ID: <3213592959919454737 at unknownmsgid>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Wow Francesca,
>>
>> That's a very cynical view of the recreational diving community.
>> Even here in PA, many dive shops have the pamphlets about sustainable
>> seafood choices. Every dive shop I dove with stressed buoyancy
>> control in terms of protecting reefs.
>>
>> You claim that most divers have the environmental awareness of a
>> beachgoer under an umbrella. Well, then isn't it your responsibility
>> to strike up a meaningful conversation on the dive boat about issues
>> you find to be salient to that dive? If you mention some scientific
>> qualifications to the divemaster, I guarantee that he or she would
>> embrace the idea of you leading an environmental awareness discussion
>> en route to or after the dive.
>>
>> I've noticed that many environmentalists act like evangelical
>> Christians regarding climate issues...and it turns people off or
>> against them. Just like an annoying guy shouting about the end of
>> the world on street corners, or the angry person explaining that you
>> will go to Hell for dancing, singing, being Catholic, or watching The
>> Brady Bunch, many environmentalists fail to understand that reasonable
>> conversation, not disdain and condemnation, are how to bring about
>> individual level change.
>>
>> Discuss how fossil fuel use disrupts a specific dive site. Talk about
>> the drop in species, often an easily understood concept. Show how
>> plastic bags kill turtles, or temperature impacts coral development.
>> Just don't be that cynical angry environmentalist who thinks that the
>> rest of their dive partners are ignorant oafs under that umbrella.
>>
>> Divers are receptive and care deeply. Sometimes we just don't have
>> the scientific background because science isn't our day job. Be
>> nice!
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 7:28 AM, "frahome at yahoo.com" <frahome at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Several posters mentioned that divers do dive cause they like what they see and thus they are inclined to protect it. Unfortunately I have a different experience and unless I am diving with scientists or researchers I haven't noticed any above average environmental sensitivity among recreational divers than the one you could detect among those sitting under an umbrella on the beach. The main drivers for nowadays mass recreational diving, I have found, are depth records, big fishes sightseeing often wishing they were in a plate or on a hook, "I dive so I am cool" kind of attitudes and maybe photography. Of course there are exceptions but I do not expect divers campaigning or acting to save reefs more than someone sitting at home watching documentaries, but likely I am wrong.
>>>
>>> Also I can't imagine diving operators telling their customers they shouldn't have flew to that site, taken that boat, stayed at that resort and eaten fish for dinner or at least that they shouldn't do it that often, nor lobbying the government to quit oil subsidies and account for its externalities so the price will raise and better represent oil true cost.
>>>
>>> What kind of stewardship are we expecting from them? Having them asking someone else to reduce their footprint than themselves or their clients? If so, who and in which way? I am sincerely wishing for an answer that would maybe relieve some guilt from taking a plane and go diving somewhere and be more effective than buying carbon offsets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Francesca
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
>>> To: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 11:01 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>
>>>
>>> I support reducing local impacts to reefs as much as we can, including
>>> diver damage. As someone pointed out correctly, the more we can reduce
>>> local impacts, the stronger reefs will be when mass coral bleaching starts
>>> killing corals in an ever more serious way. This is the idea of
>>> resilience. Some divers and dive operators find reducing diver impact
>>> appealing, because it is an impact that divers can reduce. It is something
>>> that they can do to do their part to help. I'm all for that.
>>> The problem is that diver impact, while important for some small areas
>>> of reef, is one of the most minor impacts on the world's coral reefs.
>>> While it will contribute to improving the future prospects of reefs, if it
>>> is the only thing we do, reefs will continue to degrade, including those
>>> where diver impacts are minimized.
>>> Increasing reef resilience by reducing impacts can buy us a little time
>>> to get climate change under control.
>>> But if we want to save reefs, we MUST stop global warming and
>>> acidification. We also must reduce local impacts, primarily overfishing,
>>> nutrification, chemical pollution, coral disease, and introduced species
>>> like lionfish, to mention some of the major categories of local impacts.
>>> NONE of these local impacts will be easy to stop.
>>> A recent paper by Kennedy et al. ended with the sentence, "We also
>>> provide unambiguous evidence that local efforts must be accompanied by
>>> rigorous global action to mitigate climate change." Their study found that
>>> removing major local impacts could delay the destruction of reefs, but
>>> unless climate change was stopped, reef destruction happened anyhow. The
>>> greatest delay came from stopping nutrients and stopping fishing for
>>> parrotfish, and only provided a 10 year delay before the destruction caused
>>> by climate change set in. Removing all local impacts did not change the
>>> final outcome, it was always the destruction of the reef, unless climate
>>> change was stopped. If climate change is stopped, stopping local impacts
>>> improved the situation. (They didn't even model the effects of stopping
>>> all diver damage, because it is such a small impact it has no hope of
>>> stopping the degradation of the world's reefs. Note also that they found
>>> that mass coral bleaching is the effect of climate change that will kill
>>> the reefs before acidification.)
>>> The survival of reefs depends on stopping climate change, it does not
>>> depend on stopping diver impacts. Scientists have publicly called for
>>> action on climate change. We need the dive industry to call for action on
>>> climate change as well. It is great to reduce diver damage, but we must
>>> act on BOTH climate change and local impacts to have any hope of saving
>>> reefs. The same reefs that much of the dive industry depends on for it's
>>> income.
>>> The time has come for the dive industry, from divers to operators to
>>> organizations like DEMA to stand up and be heard and be counted, supporting
>>> action on climate change.
>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>
>>> Kennedy, E.V. et al. 2013. Avoiding coral reef functional collapse
>>> requires local and global action. Current Biology 23: 912-918.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jay Burkos <jayburkos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug and Julian,
>>>>
>>>> I understand both of your views on climate change and how we as
>>>> individuals have little ability to cut down on major factors. (Even
>>>> total deniers struggle with how to be better stewards against
>>>> pollution, which NO ONE denies is a major problem).
>>>>
>>>> So I explain it like this: whether a person believes in man impacted
>>>> climate shifts or not, a damaged reef must work twice as hard to
>>>> repair itself AND survive.. Just like a hospital patient who is
>>>> immunologically compromised by AIDS or another similar disease, a
>>>> break, cut or other damage creates a major problem that endangers the
>>>> entire reef.
>>>>
>>>> By being divers who not only avoid damaging reefs, but actively work
>>>> to restore corals and remove debris while lobbying against pollution,
>>>> we can actively help in a large way.
>>>>
>>>> That, and kick the guy you catch dumping oil illegally.
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Douglas Fenner
>>>> <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No need for trepidation! I agree!! I am sure that the reason that some
>>>>> dive operators try to encourage and teach their divers to be more
>>>>> responsible about the reef is that it is something they can obviously do
>>>> to
>>>>> help. Everything they do to protect their local reefs does help, no
>>>>> question about that. Building an environmental ethic in divers is a very
>>>>> good thing to do, no question.. Further, ALL of us are frustrated that
>>>>> there is so little we can do to make a difference on climate change. We
>>>>> just want to encourage people to start thinking of next steps to add to
>>>>> their diver education. A few comments, hints, that there are other major
>>>>> problems that will have to be solved if we are to save reefs, some
>>>> obvious
>>>>> like reducing overfishing, sedimentation and nutrient runoff, and others
>>>>> that will take entire societies and the governments to do, like tackling
>>>>> climate change. Like Lad was saying, divers can be champions for reefs..
>>>>> We need to encourage that, and encourage them to not only not bash them
>>>>> when they're diving, but also support doing meaningful things to move to
>>>>> renewable energy. So far the diving industry seems to be quiet on that,
>>>> we
>>>>> want to encourage people to start thinking about that problem too and
>>>>> supporting action.
>>>>> We all have different things we can contribute, and it will take
>>>>> everybody working on this to make it happen. Divers not bashing reefs is
>>>>> part of the solution. Divers and the dive industry speaking up about
>>>>> climate change is another part of the solution. There are lots of other
>>>>> parts as well, the list of threats to reefs is long.. It's also good to
>>>>> keep in mind which are the big threats worldwide that we absolutely HAVE
>>>> to
>>>>> fix to save reefs, and which are the more minor solutions that are great
>>>> to
>>>>> contribute to as well. We're saying we need people, including the dive
>>>>> industry, to recognize that climate change is one of the biggest threats
>>>> to
>>>>> reefs, and speak up about that as well as champion good diving practices.
>>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Julian @ Reef Check <
>>>> julian at reefcheck.org.my
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is with trepidation that I raise a voice in an argument with Doug,
>>>> with
>>>>>> all his years of experience, but here goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, climate change is an important factor. But how many of us really
>>>> feel
>>>>>> we can do something about it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But maybe we can do something to change behaviour on an individual basis
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> turn the people who are damaging reefs (and they are legion) into people
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> care for reefs. Maybe this group could then be motivated to help to
>>>>>> address,
>>>>>> or at least start lobbying about, the wider issues such as climate
>>>> change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I've said enough on this thread now! But many thanks to those of
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> who have responded with some useful suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julian Hyde
>>>>>> General Manager
>>>>>> Reef Check Malaysia Bhd
>>>>>> 03 2161 5948
>>>>>> www.reefcheck.org.my
>>>>>> Follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/rcmalaysia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HEARD A FISH BOMB? TEXT US AT 012 647 1294 WITH DATE, TIME AND LOCATION!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The bottom line of the Millenium Assessment findings is that human
>>>> actions
>>>>>> are depleting Earth's natural capital, putting such strain on the
>>>>>> environment that the ability of the planet's ecosystems to sustain
>>>> future
>>>>>> generations can no longer be taken for granted."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Douglas
>>>>>> Fenner
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 1 August, 2013 9:07 AM
>>>>>> To: coral list
>>>>>> Subject: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well said, Lad, I agree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully support minimizing diver damage. We need to reduce all kinds
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> human-produced damaging effects on coral reefs.. Lad and Steve keep
>>>>>> bringing
>>>>>> up climate change. What does that have to do with diver damage??
>>>>>> Diver damage is important, isn't it?? But they are right. Climate
>>>> change
>>>>>> is the 800 pound gorilla in the corner of the room. If we don't do
>>>>>> anything
>>>>>> about that, we could stop all diver damage, and it would be like
>>>>>> re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
>>>>>> In fact, if you look at any assessment or rating or ranking of the
>>>>>> causes of coral reef decline around the world, diver damage is always
>>>> near
>>>>>> the bottom of the list. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I remember,
>>>>>> "Reefs at Risk" lists overfishing and destructive fishing as the Number
>>>> One
>>>>>> LOCAL threat to coral reefs, pollution (including sedimentation,
>>>> nutrient
>>>>>> runoff and chemical pollution) as the other big threat. The top GLOBAL
>>>> and
>>>>>> future threats to coral reefs are climate change and acidification.
>>>> The
>>>>>> extensive review of threats by the NOAA team reviewing the petition for
>>>>>> endangered coral status came to the same conclusion, as have others.
>>>>>> These are the big things that we have to take care of if we are going to
>>>>>> have reefs left decades from now.
>>>>>> I do not mean to under-estimate the threat from divers. In some
>>>>>> locations they can do serious damage, there are published papers
>>>>>> demonstrating this. But we need to keep it in perspective. Coral
>>>> disease
>>>>>> has killed vastly more coral in the Caribbean & Florida than divers. A
>>>>>> single hurricane can kill millions, maybe billions of tons of coral. I
>>>> saw
>>>>>> corals in Cozumel recovering after Hurricane Gilbert, in spite of 2000
>>>>>> dives
>>>>>> a day on just 15 miles of reefs. Reefs are fully capable of recovering
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> hurricanes, hurricanes have been going on for hundreds of millions of
>>>> years
>>>>>> and the reefs are still here (granted, they are brief events while human
>>>>>> caused stress is chronic).
>>>>>> SO, while I support reducing diver damage, and it is important in
>>>> some
>>>>>> areas, if that is the primary focus of concern for us, and for the dive
>>>>>> industry, we are going to loose the reefs, and it IS re-arranging the
>>>> deck
>>>>>> chairs on the Titanic. We have to solve the big problems, the primary
>>>>>> causes of reef decline or else we are wasting our time on reducing diver
>>>>>> damage.
>>>>>> Steve and Lad are fundamentally right, if the public (including the
>>>>>> dive
>>>>>> industry) and governments don't get to work in a serious way on climate
>>>>>> change, we are going to loose the coral reef ecosystems (they will
>>>> become
>>>>>> dominated by algae and be algae beds with a few scattered corals)..
>>>>>> We as a world community are going to loose a lot more, too. A recent
>>>> study
>>>>>> found that just the release of methane from Siberian permafrost caused
>>>> by
>>>>>> global warming, will cause (if we let global warming continue) about $60
>>>>>> TRILLION dollars damage in addition to the rest of the damage climate
>>>>>> change
>>>>>> will do, which is much larger. That is just less than a whole year
>>>>>> of the whole world economy ($70 trillion). Think what that will do to
>>>>>> the world economy, and you realize the magnitude of the threat. Killing
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> coral reef ecosystems, bad as it would be, would be a small part of the
>>>>>> problem for humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Global Price Tag for Arctic Thawing: $60 Trillion
>>>> http://weather.yahoo.com/global-price-tag-arctic-thawing-60-trillion-1841275
>>>>>> 80.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Lad Akins <Lad at reef.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HI All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been reading the diver impact thread over the last few days - it
>>>>>>> seems to flare up every year or two and I'd like to throw in another
>>>>>>> slightly different point of view to consider. In most parts of the
>>>>>>> world, especially the Caribbean, diver damage is an undetectable
>>>>>>> signal compared to natural disturbances and other human induced
>>>>>>> impacts (storms, bleaching, ocean acidification, overfishing, etc).
>>>>>>> Yes, it's easy to point a finger at a diver touching the bottom or a
>>>>>>> wayward gauge, but look at what happens in one winter blow, not even a
>>>>>>> hurricane, or from turtles grazing on sponges and you'll see more
>>>>>>> damage than divers cause in a year. I'm not saying we shouldn't
>>>>>>> encourage good behavior, proper buoyancy control and a better
>>>>>>> understanding of the marine ecosystem, but realistically, putting
>>>>>>> significant time and effort into diver regulation is not going to
>>>>>>> solve any problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thinking more broadly about conservation of coral reefs, divers and
>>>>>>> snorkelers are the true supporters of conservation efforts. If it
>>>>>>> were not for them (us - if you venture into the sea to conduct your
>>>>>>> research, for you too are a diver), who would provide public support
>>>>>>> for protection of this resource unseen to most? How many of us reach
>>>>>>> out to the public to help them better understand the issue? A few on
>>>>>>> the list preach communication of scientific research to the public,
>>>>>>> but most on the list are content to conduct research (often diving to
>>>>>>> do so), and publish the results in a journal read only by peers..
>>>>>>> Protection of coral reef ecosystems is only going to come with broad
>>>>>>> public support. And public support is not going to come from those
>>>>>>> who don't have the opportunity to learn about the sea first-hand.
>>>>>>> Restricting divers to distant viewing of marine life is only going to
>>>>>>> reduce the intimate connections with the reef system that are
>>>>>>> necessary to build support for difficult decisions that do matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I caution the easy finger pointing towards an industry who brings the
>>>>>>> vast majority of stakeholders into the conservation family. I would
>>>>>>> encourage the discussion of regulation on water quality issues,
>>>>>>> protection from overharvest and clean energy. Tough issues, but ones
>>>>>>> that will make a real difference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **************************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lad Akins
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Director of Special Projects
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> REEF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P O Box 370246
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 98300 Overseas Hwy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Key Largo FL 33037
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (305) 852-0030 w
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (305) 942-7333 c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.REEF.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lad at REEF.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> PO Box 7390
>>>>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3209/6537 - Release Date:
>>>> 07/30/13
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> PO Box 7390
>>>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>>>
>>>>> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> PO Box 7390
>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>>
>>> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 7:28 AM, "frahome at yahoo.com" <frahome at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Several posters mentioned that divers do dive cause they like what they see and thus they are inclined to protect it. Unfortunately I have a different experience and unless I am diving with scientists or researchers I haven't noticed any above average environmental sensitivity among recreational divers than the one you could detect among those sitting under an umbrella on the beach. The main drivers for nowadays mass recreational diving, I have found, are depth records, big fishes sightseeing often wishing they were in a plate or on a hook, "I dive so I am cool" kind of attitudes and maybe photography. Of course there are exceptions but I do not expect divers campaigning or acting to save reefs more than someone sitting at home watching documentaries, but likely I am wrong.
>>>
>>> Also I can't imagine diving operators telling their customers they shouldn't have flew to that site, taken that boat, stayed at that resort and eaten fish for dinner or at least that they shouldn't do it that often, nor lobbying the government to quit oil subsidies and account for its externalities so the price will raise and better represent oil true cost.
>>>
>>> What kind of stewardship are we expecting from them? Having them asking someone else to reduce their footprint than themselves or their clients? If so, who and in which way? I am sincerely wishing for an answer that would maybe relieve some guilt from taking a plane and go diving somewhere and be more effective than buying carbon offsets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Francesca
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
>>> To: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 11:01 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>
>>>
>>> I support reducing local impacts to reefs as much as we can, including
>>> diver damage. As someone pointed out correctly, the more we can reduce
>>> local impacts, the stronger reefs will be when mass coral bleaching starts
>>> killing corals in an ever more serious way. This is the idea of
>>> resilience. Some divers and dive operators find reducing diver impact
>>> appealing, because it is an impact that divers can reduce. It is something
>>> that they can do to do their part to help. I'm all for that.
>>> The problem is that diver impact, while important for some small areas
>>> of reef, is one of the most minor impacts on the world's coral reefs.
>>> While it will contribute to improving the future prospects of reefs, if it
>>> is the only thing we do, reefs will continue to degrade, including those
>>> where diver impacts are minimized.
>>> Increasing reef resilience by reducing impacts can buy us a little time
>>> to get climate change under control.
>>> But if we want to save reefs, we MUST stop global warming and
>>> acidification. We also must reduce local impacts, primarily overfishing,
>>> nutrification, chemical pollution, coral disease, and introduced species
>>> like lionfish, to mention some of the major categories of local impacts.
>>> NONE of these local impacts will be easy to stop.
>>> A recent paper by Kennedy et al. ended with the sentence, "We also
>>> provide unambiguous evidence that local efforts must be accompanied by
>>> rigorous global action to mitigate climate change." Their study found that
>>> removing major local impacts could delay the destruction of reefs, but
>>> unless climate change was stopped, reef destruction happened anyhow. The
>>> greatest delay came from stopping nutrients and stopping fishing for
>>> parrotfish, and only provided a 10 year delay before the destruction caused
>>> by climate change set in. Removing all local impacts did not change the
>>> final outcome, it was always the destruction of the reef, unless climate
>>> change was stopped. If climate change is stopped, stopping local impacts
>>> improved the situation. (They didn't even model the effects of stopping
>>> all diver damage, because it is such a small impact it has no hope of
>>> stopping the degradation of the world's reefs. Note also that they found
>>> that mass coral bleaching is the effect of climate change that will kill
>>> the reefs before acidification.)
>>> The survival of reefs depends on stopping climate change, it does not
>>> depend on stopping diver impacts. Scientists have publicly called for
>>> action on climate change. We need the dive industry to call for action on
>>> climate change as well. It is great to reduce diver damage, but we must
>>> act on BOTH climate change and local impacts to have any hope of saving
>>> reefs. The same reefs that much of the dive industry depends on for it's
>>> income.
>>> The time has come for the dive industry, from divers to operators to
>>> organizations like DEMA to stand up and be heard and be counted, supporting
>>> action on climate change.
>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>
>>> Kennedy, E.V. et al. 2013. Avoiding coral reef functional collapse
>>> requires local and global action. Current Biology 23: 912-918.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jay Burkos <jayburkos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug and Julian,
>>>>
>>>> I understand both of your views on climate change and how we as
>>>> individuals have little ability to cut down on major factors. (Even
>>>> total deniers struggle with how to be better stewards against
>>>> pollution, which NO ONE denies is a major problem).
>>>>
>>>> So I explain it like this: whether a person believes in man impacted
>>>> climate shifts or not, a damaged reef must work twice as hard to
>>>> repair itself AND survive. Just like a hospital patient who is
>>>> immunologically compromised by AIDS or another similar disease, a
>>>> break, cut or other damage creates a major problem that endangers the
>>>> entire reef.
>>>>
>>>> By being divers who not only avoid damaging reefs, but actively work
>>>> to restore corals and remove debris while lobbying against pollution,
>>>> we can actively help in a large way.
>>>>
>>>> That, and kick the guy you catch dumping oil illegally.
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 2, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Douglas Fenner
>>>> <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No need for trepidation! I agree!! I am sure that the reason that some
>>>>> dive operators try to encourage and teach their divers to be more
>>>>> responsible about the reef is that it is something they can obviously do
>>>> to
>>>>> help. Everything they do to protect their local reefs does help, no
>>>>> question about that. Building an environmental ethic in divers is a very
>>>>> good thing to do, no question. Further, ALL of us are frustrated that
>>>>> there is so little we can do to make a difference on climate change. We
>>>>> just want to encourage people to start thinking of next steps to add to
>>>>> their diver education. A few comments, hints, that there are other major
>>>>> problems that will have to be solved if we are to save reefs, some
>>>> obvious
>>>>> like reducing overfishing, sedimentation and nutrient runoff, and others
>>>>> that will take entire societies and the governments to do, like tackling
>>>>> climate change. Like Lad was saying, divers can be champions for reefs..
>>>>> We need to encourage that, and encourage them to not only not bash them
>>>>> when they're diving, but also support doing meaningful things to move to
>>>>> renewable energy. So far the diving industry seems to be quiet on that,
>>>> we
>>>>> want to encourage people to start thinking about that problem too and
>>>>> supporting action.
>>>>> We all have different things we can contribute, and it will take
>>>>> everybody working on this to make it happen. Divers not bashing reefs is
>>>>> part of the solution. Divers and the dive industry speaking up about
>>>>> climate change is another part of the solution. There are lots of other
>>>>> parts as well, the list of threats to reefs is long.. It's also good to
>>>>> keep in mind which are the big threats worldwide that we absolutely HAVE
>>>> to
>>>>> fix to save reefs, and which are the more minor solutions that are great
>>>> to
>>>>> contribute to as well. We're saying we need people, including the dive
>>>>> industry, to recognize that climate change is one of the biggest threats
>>>> to
>>>>> reefs, and speak up about that as well as champion good diving practices.
>>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Julian @ Reef Check <
>>>> julian at reefcheck.org.my
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is with trepidation that I raise a voice in an argument with Doug,
>>>> with
>>>>>> all his years of experience, but here goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, climate change is an important factor. But how many of us really
>>>> feel
>>>>>> we can do something about it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But maybe we can do something to change behaviour on an individual basis
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> turn the people who are damaging reefs (and they are legion) into people
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> care for reefs. Maybe this group could then be motivated to help to
>>>>>> address,
>>>>>> or at least start lobbying about, the wider issues such as climate
>>>> change..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I've said enough on this thread now! But many thanks to those of
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> who have responded with some useful suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julian Hyde
>>>>>> General Manager
>>>>>> Reef Check Malaysia Bhd
>>>>>> 03 2161 5948
>>>>>> www.reefcheck.org.my
>>>>>> Follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/rcmalaysia
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HEARD A FISH BOMB? TEXT US AT 012 647 1294 WITH DATE, TIME AND LOCATION!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The bottom line of the Millenium Assessment findings is that human
>>>> actions
>>>>>> are depleting Earth's natural capital, putting such strain on the
>>>>>> environment that the ability of the planet's ecosystems to sustain
>>>> future
>>>>>> generations can no longer be taken for granted."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>>>> [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Douglas
>>>>>> Fenner
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 1 August, 2013 9:07 AM
>>>>>> To: coral list
>>>>>> Subject: [Coral-List] Fwd: Diver damage thread
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well said, Lad, I agree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully support minimizing diver damage. We need to reduce all kinds
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> human-produced damaging effects on coral reefs.. Lad and Steve keep
>>>>>> bringing
>>>>>> up climate change. What does that have to do with diver damage??
>>>>>> Diver damage is important, isn't it?? But they are right. Climate
>>>> change
>>>>>> is the 800 pound gorilla in the corner of the room. If we don't do
>>>>>> anything
>>>>>> about that, we could stop all diver damage, and it would be like
>>>>>> re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
>>>>>> In fact, if you look at any assessment or rating or ranking of the
>>>>>> causes of coral reef decline around the world, diver damage is always
>>>> near
>>>>>> the bottom of the list. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I remember,
>>>>>> "Reefs at Risk" lists overfishing and destructive fishing as the Number
>>>> One
>>>>>> LOCAL threat to coral reefs, pollution (including sedimentation,
>>>> nutrient
>>>>>> runoff and chemical pollution) as the other big threat. The top GLOBAL
>>>> and
>>>>>> future threats to coral reefs are climate change and acidification.
>>>> The
>>>>>> extensive review of threats by the NOAA team reviewing the petition for
>>>>>> endangered coral status came to the same conclusion, as have others.
>>>>>> These are the big things that we have to take care of if we are going to
>>>>>> have reefs left decades from now.
>>>>>> I do not mean to under-estimate the threat from divers. In some
>>>>>> locations they can do serious damage, there are published papers
>>>>>> demonstrating this. But we need to keep it in perspective. Coral
>>>> disease
>>>>>> has killed vastly more coral in the Caribbean & Florida than divers. A
>>>>>> single hurricane can kill millions, maybe billions of tons of coral. I
>>>> saw
>>>>>> corals in Cozumel recovering after Hurricane Gilbert, in spite of 2000
>>>>>> dives
>>>>>> a day on just 15 miles of reefs. Reefs are fully capable of recovering
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> hurricanes, hurricanes have been going on for hundreds of millions of
>>>> years
>>>>>> and the reefs are still here (granted, they are brief events while human
>>>>>> caused stress is chronic).
>>>>>> SO, while I support reducing diver damage, and it is important in
>>>> some
>>>>>> areas, if that is the primary focus of concern for us, and for the dive
>>>>>> industry, we are going to loose the reefs, and it IS re-arranging the
>>>> deck
>>>>>> chairs on the Titanic. We have to solve the big problems, the primary
>>>>>> causes of reef decline or else we are wasting our time on reducing diver
>>>>>> damage.
>>>>>> Steve and Lad are fundamentally right, if the public (including the
>>>>>> dive
>>>>>> industry) and governments don't get to work in a serious way on climate
>>>>>> change, we are going to loose the coral reef ecosystems (they will
>>>> become
>>>>>> dominated by algae and be algae beds with a few scattered corals)..
>>>>>> We as a world community are going to loose a lot more, too. A recent
>>>> study
>>>>>> found that just the release of methane from Siberian permafrost caused
>>>> by
>>>>>> global warming, will cause (if we let global warming continue) about $60
>>>>>> TRILLION dollars damage in addition to the rest of the damage climate
>>>>>> change
>>>>>> will do, which is much larger. That is just less than a whole year
>>>>>> of the whole world economy ($70 trillion). Think what that will do to
>>>>>> the world economy, and you realize the magnitude of the threat. Killing
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> coral reef ecosystems, bad as it would be, would be a small part of the
>>>>>> problem for humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Global Price Tag for Arctic Thawing: $60 Trillion
>>>> http://weather.yahoo.com/global-price-tag-arctic-thawing-60-trillion-1841275
>>>>>> 80.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Lad Akins <Lad at reef.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HI All,
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12
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