[Coral-List] Exotic vs Invasive

Rudy Bonn rudy_bonn at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 19 20:10:32 EST 2013


It is widely believed that the introduction of lionfish came about as a result of the aquarium trade.  I believe the first sighting in Florida was in Dania, Fl in the lat 1980's.  It is also believed by many that Hurricane Andrew destroyed private aquariums as well and perhaps some pet stores that carried lionfish.  I agree with Gene, it is man's fault that they are here, and they are not going away due to their high fecundity, females spawn year-round, and it is now estimated that over 300,000 and some change are in the keys alone.  They want people to kill them, you dont even need a fishing license in Fl if you are hunting lionfish exclusively.  There has also been talk of forming a fishery for them as they are delicous table fare.  Personnally, I refuse to kill anything and unfortunately I have, in the past killed a few, but it was not a good experience.  Hope this helps!
 
Incidentally they estimate over 100,000 pythons in the everglades, they recently had a python roundup with monetary incentives for the biggest snake caught.  In the end they caught 60+ snakes-- not a huge dent in population numbers if there estmate is anywhere close to 100,000 + snakes.  there are over 300,000 lionfish in the keys alone with females spawning on a weekly basis year round-- I cant do the math but I know pretty soon there will be 100,000 more and counting!   Rudy   

Rudy S Bonn
--- On Tue, 2/19/13, coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:


From: coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <coral-list-request at coral.aoml..noaa.gov>
Subject: Coral-List Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 3:53 PM


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: removal of rigs (Sarah Frias-Torres)
   2. Re: Exotic vs. Invasive (Szmant, Alina)
   3. Re: removal of rigs (Steve Mussman)
   4. Re: Exotic vs. Invasive (J. Michael Nolan)
   5. Re: removal of rigs (Szmant, Alina)
   6. Re: Exotic vs. Invasive (Szmant, Alina)
   7. Re: removal of rigs (Steve Mussman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:09:07 -0500
From: Sarah Frias-Torres <sfrias_torres at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
To: <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>, coral list
    <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <BAY164-W32101A92F708DDA7661EE481F50 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Old rigs in the Gulf of Mexico could become new energy sources. A nice set of solar panels and windmills set up above the water line. Because the rigs are cabled to the coastline, they can send the electricity produced in this way for use in the mainland. Maintenance of such green energy installations will generate jobs (you need maintenance crews to visit periodically and make sure the panels and windmills are in tip top shape).
Below the water line, the rigs will continue to provide habitat for many fish and coral species. This in turn will keep the jobs of charter fishing boats and will keep tourists coming to scuba dive and fish the rigs.
Spread the idea. Hey, if someone uses it, keep my name in the loop. If you need an environmental impact study to evaluate this approach, I can do it too.

Sarah Frias-Torres, Ph.D. 
Twitter: @GrouperDocBlog: http://grouperluna.wordpress.comhttp://independent.academia.edu/SarahFriasTorres


> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:05:56 -0500
> From: eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu
> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> Subject: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
> 
> This may be of interest to people on the list. Gene
> 
> -- http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/story/Explosive-Fed-Mandate-Killing-Thousands-of-Red/xj8T4zPamkOGc8fuT40W_Q.cspx
> 
> 
> No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
> ------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
> E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
> University of South Florida
> College of Marine Science Room 221A
> 140 Seventh Avenue South
> St. Petersburg, FL 33701
> <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
> Tel 727 553-1158
> ---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
                          

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:20:40 -0500
From: "Szmant, Alina" <szmanta at uncw.edu>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Exotic vs. Invasive
To: paul hoetjes <phoetjes at gmail.com>,
    "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"    <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
    <68ECDB295FC42D4C98B223E75A854025DA28797373 at uncwexmb2.dcs.uncw.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

For the record, I find lionfish quite cute, and feel terrible that humans have put them in the position of being an invasive species to be hunted to the death in the Caribbean.  They are such beautiful fish, and just hover there as they are faced with a spear gun placed inches from their cute faces.  It is not the lionfish, but humans, who are the nasty ones in this sad story.

*************************************************************************
Dr. Alina M. Szmant
Professor of Marine Biology
Center for Marine Science and Dept of Biology and Marine Biology
University of North Carolina Wilmington
5600 Marvin Moss Ln
Wilmington NC 28409 USA
tel:  910-962-2362  fax: 910-962-2410  cell: 910-200-3913
http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
*******************************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of paul hoetjes
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:48 PM
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Exotic vs. Invasive

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: paul hoetjes <phoetjes at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Exotic vs. Invasive
To: Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>


Living on Bonaire I feel compelled to come to the defense of the dive
instructor mentioned in the anecdote at the beginning of this
discussion.

The IUCN defines an alien invasive species as "an alien species which
becomes established in natural or semi-natural ecosystems or habitat,
is an agent of change, and threatens native biological diversity."

"Alien" is synonymized with non-native, non-indigenous, foreign,
exotic, and is taken to mean "a species, subspecies, or lower taxon
occurring outside of its natural range (past or present) and dispersal
potential (i.e. outside the range it occupies naturally or could not
occupy without direct or indirect introduction or care by humans)"

The key distinction for an invasive species then, is that after
introduction by humans it is established outside of its natural range,
and threatens native biological diversity.
A species that has been introduced and has established itself outside
its natural range, but does not threaten native biological diversity
is, therefore, not an invasive species, but merely an established
species, 'established' meaning "successfully producing viable
offspring with the likelihood of continued survival" (CBD). Many
introduced plants that are able to maintain their presence but not to
out-compete native plants fall into this category.

With respect to the Bonaire anecdote: lionfish must be considered
invasive in the Caribbean since they have been shown to threaten
native biodiversity (79% reduction in fish recruitment, Albins and
Hixon 2008).
Tubastrea on the other hand, as far as I know, has not been reported
as having any effects that might indicate any threat to native
biodiversity, and thus cannot be termed an invasive species. In my
book the dive instructor was quite correct, lionfish are invasive,
tubastrea is just an exotic.

As to cute or not cute, rabbits are generally considered cute, but I
don't think there is any doubt that they are an invasive species in
Australia.The "cuteness" of invasive species (remember, many of them
were introduced through the pet trade, i.e., were considered to be
cute enough to buy as a pet) is actually often a problem in the
efforts towards their eradication.

Best,
Paul Hoetjes



On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Douglas Fenner
<douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To me, an introduced species is one that has been moved (intentionally or
> unintentionally) by humans into a new area outside their natural range.  In
> my view, an invasive species is an introduced species that goes on to
> invade new areas.  Invading new areas often implies effects on the
> ecosystem.  There are many marine species that are introduced into harbors
> by shipping.  They tend to be species that live in harbors because that is
> where ships are and can pick up species, that is the species' habitat, and
> so often they don't spread outside harbors they are introduced into.  But a
> few do, and then I would call them invasive species.  I'd argue an
> introduced species that doesn't subsequently expand could sometimes have
> major effects on an ecosystem, if I remember there is a clam in San
> Francisco Bay that came from China and become so abundant that it had
> altered the ecosystem in part of the bay.  Invasive species may have larger
> effects simply because they may expand to live in much larger areas, but
> maybe also because they may be strong competitors for native species.
> Level of harm to an ecosystem would probably be hard to quantify.
>      Large range expansions can happen naturally, thought they are surely
> much less common than when assisted by people.  An example might be the
> cattle egret, which is naturally in Africa, but at one point flew to South
> America, and has subsequently spread throughout much of the Americas.
>      The evidence suggests *Tubatraea coccinea* was probably introduced
> into the Caribbean, and probably then spread throughout the Caribbean, Gulf
> of Mexico and to Florida.  The evidence is even stronger that Lionfish are
> both introduced and invasive in the Western Atlantic (a number of other
> fish species have also been introduced).  There is also genetic evidence
> that the soft coral, *Carijoa*, in the Caribbean came from the Pacific
> relatively recently, and thus is quite likely introduced.  It was
> introduced into Hawaii, is invasive and spread widely, and is damaging
> since it grows on back corals and kills them.  We talk about "harmful algae
> blooms" so I think we could talk about "harmful invasive species."  A
> species that is invasive could in theory be more or less harmful, I suppose.
>     Cheers,  Doug
>
> Fenner, D. and Banks, K.  2004.  Orange cup coral, *Tubastraea coccinea*,
> invades Florida and the Flower Garden Banks, Northwestern Gulf of Mexico.
> Coral Reefs 23: 505-507.
>
>
>
> Concepcion, G. T., Kahng, S. E., Crepeau, M. W., Franklin, E. C., Coles, S.
> L., Toonen, R. J.  2010.  Resolving natural ranges and marine invasions in
> a globally distributed octocoral (genus *Carijoa*).  Marine Ecology
> Progress Series 401: 113-127.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 6:13 AM, Bruno, John <jbruno at unc.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi John
> >
> > Exotic is any introduced species.  And there is a gigantic and never
> > ending debate about what to call them, eg, exotic, introduced, alien,
> > non-native, etc
> >
> > The distinction with invasive is somewhat subjective and isn't set in
> > stone, but in general, Invasive exotics are very common, probably to the
> > point of being community dominants and potentially having negative effects
> > on native species.  They are also considered to have become "naturalized"
> > ie, established self-sustaining populations, which is a much lower bar than
> > the dominance threshold and Tubastraea would certainly qualify.  In fact,
> > in their microhabitat, I think Tubastraea can be quite common and Id be
> > comfortable labeling them as "invasive".  And funny, but I just had a
> > manuscript reviewer say lionfish were not invasive, so don't be surprised
> > to hear disagreement about this stuff.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > JB
> >
> > John F Bruno, PhD
> > Professor
> > Department of Biology
> > The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> > www.johnfbruno.com<http://www.johnfbruno.com/>
> >
> >
> > species are exotics that
> >
> > Dear List,
> >
> > Ken Marks recent post concerning Tubastraea micranthus reminded me of an
> > incident that occurred on a recent trip to Bonaire.  A divemaster was
> > bemoaning the "invasion" of lionfish.  When I mentioned that the "poster
> > coral" for Bonaire (Tubastraea sp) was invasive, I was severely
> > chastised.  Lionfish were "invasive", Tubastraea was "exotic".
> >
> > I noted that Ken Marks used both "exotic" and "invasion" in his e-mail.
> > I had never thought about the distinction before.
> >
> > After Googling around a bit, I concluded that if the species under
> > consideration was sort of cute, it was "exotic".  If it was ugly, it was
> > "invasive".
> >
> > While that is a vast oversimplification, I wonder if the coral-reef
> > community distinguishes "exotic" from "invasive" and, if so, is there a
> > precise definition of the difference?
> >
> > John
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> PO Box 7390
> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA
>
> The views expressed are those of the author alone.
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
_______________________________________________
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Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:27:00 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
To: Eugene Shinn <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
    <13876450.1361287621466.JavaMail.root at mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"


   Here is an issue truly replete with irony.

   While we should all be concerned about the impact of the demolition of these
   artificial reefs and the collateral damage it inflicts on resident fish
   populations, the consternation voiced by the oil industry based on distress
   over environmental impact is difficult to take seriously.

   The question is, in this case does it really matter.

    The oil companies would love to be absolved of the liability and expense
   that current regulations require. Sports fishermen, divers and spearfishing
   enthusiasts are also understandably disturbed over the prospect of losing
   many of their highly-valued domains.

    At the same time, these varied affected interests have been conspicuously
   silent in the debate over the  greater threat that climate change presents
   to coral reefs and other marine ecosystems around the world.

   It  would  be  nice  to think that perhaps this issue might present an
   opportunity  to  develop  alliances  that  could coordinate efforts to
   effectively confront these issues into the future.

   Regards,

    Steve

   For more background on the oil rig issue:

   [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42189-2005Apr10.htmlis

   [2]http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/


   -----Original Message-----
   >From: Eugene Shinn
   >Sent: Feb 18, 2013 4:05 PM
   >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   >Subject: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
   >
   >This may be of interest to people on the list. Gene
   >
   >--
   http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/story/Explosive-Fed-Mandate-Killing-Thou
   sands-of-Red/xj8T4zPamkOGc8fuT40W_Q.cspx
   >
   >
   >No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
   >------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
   >E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
   >University of South Florida
   >College of Marine Science Room 221A
   >140 Seventh Avenue South
   >St. Petersburg, FL 33701
   >
   >Tel 727 553-1158
   >---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
   >
   >_______________________________________________
   >Coral-List mailing list
   >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list

References

   1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42189-2005Apr10.htmlis
   2. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 13:27:27 -0500
From: "J. Michael Nolan" <mnolan at rainforestandreef.org>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Exotic vs. Invasive
To: <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <AE4B8ACBF6DA408E916884FFBF457AD5 at ccsacer>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

Dr. Szmant....

We have e-mailed a few times over the years and I am far from being any kind of a Marine Expert like you or the bulk of this list. I was under the impression that Lionfish were quite predatory and having a big impact on Tropical Fish Populations in the Caribbean?

I read articles like this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080717164319.htm

So, somebody on the list please clarify this for me. Actually, I see that their range is spreading. If they are truly invasive/exotic....I could probably find this somewhere, how did they get into the Caribbean in the first place? Has to be some kind of Human's are responsible kind of issue?

Yes, no doubt they are gorgeous Animals to look at.

Thanks for any clarification.

Mike Nolan

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 13:50:04 -0500
From: "Szmant, Alina" <szmanta at uncw.edu>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
To: Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net>, Eugene Shinn
    <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
    <68ECDB295FC42D4C98B223E75A854025DA28797535 at uncwexmb2.dcs.uncw.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Seems like the bigger issue is not that they should be removed, but that removal should NOT be by blowing them up and killing everything on them!  Corals could even be removed and transplanted to needy locations like they did for Navy seawall in Key West

*************************************************************************
Dr. Alina M. Szmant
Professor of Marine Biology
Center for Marine Science and Dept of Biology and Marine Biology
University of North Carolina Wilmington
5600 Marvin Moss Ln
Wilmington NC 28409 USA
tel:  910-962-2362  fax: 910-962-2410  cell: 910-200-3913
http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
*******************************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Mussman
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:27 AM
To: Eugene Shinn
Cc: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] removal of rigs


   Here is an issue truly replete with irony.

   While we should all be concerned about the impact of the demolition of these
   artificial reefs and the collateral damage it inflicts on resident fish
   populations, the consternation voiced by the oil industry based on distress
   over environmental impact is difficult to take seriously.

   The question is, in this case does it really matter.

    The oil companies would love to be absolved of the liability and expense
   that current regulations require. Sports fishermen, divers and spearfishing
   enthusiasts are also understandably disturbed over the prospect of losing
   many of their highly-valued domains.

    At the same time, these varied affected interests have been conspicuously
   silent in the debate over the  greater threat that climate change presents
   to coral reefs and other marine ecosystems around the world.

   It  would  be  nice  to think that perhaps this issue might present an
   opportunity  to  develop  alliances  that  could coordinate efforts to
   effectively confront these issues into the future.

   Regards,

    Steve

   For more background on the oil rig issue:

   [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42189-2005Apr10.htmlis

   [2]http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/


   -----Original Message-----
   >From: Eugene Shinn
   >Sent: Feb 18, 2013 4:05 PM
   >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   >Subject: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
   >
   >This may be of interest to people on the list. Gene
   >
   >--
   http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/story/Explosive-Fed-Mandate-Killing-Thou
   sands-of-Red/xj8T4zPamkOGc8fuT40W_Q.cspx
   >
   >
   >No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
   >------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
   >E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
   >University of South Florida
   >College of Marine Science Room 221A
   >140 Seventh Avenue South
   >St. Petersburg, FL 33701
   >
   >Tel 727 553-1158
   >---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
   >
   >_______________________________________________
   >Coral-List mailing list
   >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list

References

   1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42189-2005Apr10.htmlis
   2. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/
_______________________________________________
Coral-List mailing list
Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:43:38 -0500
From: "Szmant, Alina" <szmanta at uncw.edu>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Exotic vs. Invasive
To: "J. Michael Nolan" <mnolan at rainforestandreef.org>,
    "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
    <68ECDB295FC42D4C98B223E75A854025DA287975D8 at uncwexmb2.dcs.uncw.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Mike:

I will leave it up to those on the list who have the references about the lionfish invasion history handy to send you the historical references you seek  (or better yet, you can go to Coral-List digest and you will find them in there somewhere...or Google lionfish).  

My major reason for replying to your query is to comment that: who are we, the humans who have overfished the Caribbean coral reefs and those all over the world as well, to call out the lionfish for being a major predator of Caribbean reef fishes.  Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black.  I guess we don't want the lionfishes to eat the fishes that we want to catch for ourselves?  Reminds me of the Newfoundland baby seal fishermen (slaughtermen?) justifying the slaughter based on the complaint that the seals ate up all the cod leaving none for the humans!

I suggest that all those folks who are so upset about the lionfish invasion hurting native Caribbean coral reef fishes do their bit by not fishing or eating any of these reef fishes to help their populations recover!

Alina

*************************************************************************
Dr. Alina M. Szmant
Professor of Marine Biology
Center for Marine Science and Dept of Biology and Marine Biology
University of North Carolina Wilmington
5600 Marvin Moss Ln
Wilmington NC 28409 USA
tel:  910-962-2362  fax: 910-962-2410  cell: 910-200-3913
http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
*******************************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of J. Michael Nolan
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:27 PM
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Exotic vs. Invasive

Dr. Szmant....

We have e-mailed a few times over the years and I am far from being any kind of a Marine Expert like you or the bulk of this list. I was under the impression that Lionfish were quite predatory and having a big impact on Tropical Fish Populations in the Caribbean?

I read articles like this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080717164319.htm

So, somebody on the list please clarify this for me. Actually, I see that their range is spreading. If they are truly invasive/exotic....I could probably find this somewhere, how did they get into the Caribbean in the first place? Has to be some kind of Human's are responsible kind of issue?

Yes, no doubt they are gorgeous Animals to look at.

Thanks for any clarification.

Mike Nolan

----------

If we are on another line or away from the phone, please leave your number, best time to return your call and your e-mail address.

After hours and weekend phone appointments are available upon request.

Sincerely,

J. Michael Nolan, Director

Rainforest and Reef

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:15:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
To: Alina Szmant <szmanta at uncw.edu>, Eugene Shinn
    <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID:
    <12868221.1361304949802.JavaMail.root at elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"


   As is often the case, the devil is in the details. Somehow these rigs need
   to cut down to a depth that does not comprise a navigational hazard. At the
   same time they would need to be shallow enough to promote continued reef
   growth and fish habitat. In addition, there remains the issue of continued
   inspection of the well heads and remaining pipe line to protect against
   undetected oil leaks.
   It's likely that the oil companies would prefer to simply abandon them in
   the  name  of  conservation  "to protect" these newly developed marine
   ecosystems. Blowing them up is a bad idea as it reflects both poor policy
   and pardon the pun, a lack of deep understanding of the ecological issues
   involved.
   The fact that environmental groups don't want to intervene is likely a
   result of the animus that has developed between them and the oil companies.
   Ironically, I believe they are missing out on an much needed opportunity to
   promote a dialogue on this and other issues of significance. I hope this
   isn't becoming another proverbial example of adversaries who never miss an
   opportunity to miss an opportunity!
   Regards,
    Steve

   -----Original Message-----
   >From: "Szmant, Alina"
   >Sent: Feb 19, 2013 1:50 PM
   >To: Steve Mussman , Eugene Shinn
   >Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"
   >Subject: RE: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
   >
   >Seems like the bigger issue is not that they should be removed, but that
   removal should NOT be by blowing them up and killing everything on them!
   Corals could even be removed and transplanted to needy locations like they
   did for Navy seawall in Key West
   >
   >*************************************************************************
   >Dr. Alina M. Szmant
   >Professor of Marine Biology
   >Center for Marine Science and Dept of Biology and Marine Biology
   >University of North Carolina Wilmington
   >5600 Marvin Moss Ln
   >Wilmington NC 28409 USA
   >tel: 910-962-2362 fax: 910-962-2410 cell: 910-200-3913
   >http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
   >*******************************************************
   >
   >
   >-----Original Message-----
   >From:                          coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   [mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Mussman
   >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:27 AM
   >To: Eugene Shinn
   >Cc: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   >Subject: Re: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
   >
   >
   > Here is an issue truly replete with irony.
   >
   > While we should all be concerned about the impact of the demolition of
   these
   > artificial reefs and the collateral damage it inflicts on resident fish
   >  populations,  the consternation voiced by the oil industry based on
   distress
   > over environmental impact is difficult to take seriously.
   >
   > The question is, in this case does it really matter.
   >
   > The oil companies would love to be absolved of the liability and expense
   >  that  current  regulations  require.  Sports  fishermen, divers and
   spearfishing
   > enthusiasts are also understandably disturbed over the prospect of losing
   > many of their highly-valued domains.
   >
   > At the same time, these varied affected interests have been conspicuously
   > silent in the debate over the greater threat that climate change presents
   > to coral reefs and other marine ecosystems around the world.
   >
   > It would be nice to think that perhaps this issue might present an
   > opportunity to develop alliances that could coordinate efforts to
   > effectively confront these issues into the future..
   >
   > Regards,
   >
   > Steve
   >
   > For more background on the oil rig issue:
   >
   > [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42189-2005Apr10.htmlis
   >
   > [2]http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/
   >
   >
   > -----Original Message-----
   > >From: Eugene Shinn
   > >Sent: Feb 18, 2013 4:05 PM
   > >To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   > >Subject: [Coral-List] removal of rigs
   > >
   > >This may be of interest to people on the list. Gene
   > >
   > >--
   >
   http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/story/Explosive-Fed-Mandate-Killing-Thou
   > sands-of-Red/xj8T4zPamkOGc8fuT40W_Q.cspx
   > >
   > >
   > >No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
   > >------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
   > >E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
   > >University of South Florida
   > >College of Marine Science Room 221A
   > >140 Seventh Avenue South
   > >St. Petersburg, FL 33701
   > >
   > >Tel 727 553-1158
   > >---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
   > >
   > >_______________________________________________
   > >Coral-List mailing list
   > >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   > >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
   >
   >References
   >
   > 1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42189-2005Apr10.htmlis
   > 2. http://www..nbcnews.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/
   >_______________________________________________
   >Coral-List mailing list
   >Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
   >http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
   >
   >


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End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18
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