[Coral-List] To Dennis Hubbard (What agency should list corals under the Endangered)

vassil zlatarski vzlatarski at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 30 01:21:09 EDT 2013


Martin, you nailed it, our society reminds of "Après moi, le déluge" ("After me, the flood") uttered by the absolute monarch, Luis XIV.

Vassil  


131 Fales Rd., Bristol, RI 02809, USA;  tel.: +1-401-254-5121


________________________________
 From: Martin Moe <martin_moe at yahoo.com>
To: Quenton <qdokken at gulfmex.org>; "'Szmant, Alina'" <szmanta at uncw.edu>; 'Pedro H. Rodríguez' <phernanrod at yahoo.com>; "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] To Dennis Hubbard (What agency should list corals under the Endangered)
 
Well said, Quenton. Here's another way to express it.



We do have a balanced approach to the environment. Picture a
seesaw... with population growth on one end and industrial economic growth on the
other. The fulcrum is technology. As population growth increases that end of
the seesaw dips a bit, so the industrial economy then has the opportunity (demand)
to expand and counter the increase in population; and the balance is restored.
The fulcrum of technology groans a bit, but industrial development shores it up
with green revolutions, chemical magic, carbon dioxide production, new ways to
harvest natural resources, and fossil fuel exploitation, err, make that fossil
fuel research and development. And that stimulates more population growth and
creates a dip of the population end of the seesaw. Then the Industrial economic
end of seesaw rises a bit, stimulating population growth back to balance with another groan from the fulcrum, which is quickly made all better by advances in
industrial technology. The balance holds tenaciously through the repetition of
the cycles and all is good, until, until, the fulcrum just can’t continue to
“make it all better” and crumbles under the weight of humanity. But don’t
worry, we, most of us alive in this glorious time of industrial growth and
consumer comfort will be gone before the environmental fan is hit by the
excrement of human civilization, so what do we care what happens after we are
gone. Unfortunately, that attitude, “don’t care what happens after I’m gone” is
far too prevalent in society today. Will we restore a sustainable balance to
the seesaw and create a stable fulcrum in time to maintain a functional and
progressive civilization? I really, really, hope so. I know, I know, think
positive, work hard to develop constructive solutions to our problems, and I’m
trying, but it’s difficult to do.

Martin


________________________________
From: Quenton <qdokken at gulfmex.org>
To: "'Szmant, Alina'" <szmanta at uncw.edu>; 'Pedro H. Rodríguez' <phernanrod at yahoo.com>; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov 
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] To Dennis Hubbard (What agency should list corals under the Endangered)

Good Day All;

Social and economic practice do not necessarily follow the constructs of
science and certainly not the realities of the limits of nature.  In
economic and social science forums, rarely have I heard discussed the fact
that there are very real limits to the level at which the natural systems
and resources can be impacted before the living resource and/or system
ceases to function in a normal way, if at all.  The belief seems to be that
natural habitats, wild populations, and the cycles of ecosystem dynamics
can be compromised infinitely to serve the needs and wants of humans. The
fact is that nature did not evolve in a manner to be sustainable under the
variety and quantity of insults and compromises that humans inflict.  Nor is
nature geared to adapt on a human generational time scale.  Every
environmental issue we face today can be discussed in terms of lack of
understanding/acceptance of the fact that nature can only be compromised to
a limited extent before it fails. Our regulatory system of issuing permits
is based on the belief that nature can be compromised infinitely.  Yes,
society must have jobs and business opportunities to exist and flourish.
Yes, there must be access to natural resources to meet the needs and wants
of humans/society.  But, at some point planning and permitting must factor
the limits of nature into the model.  Nature does not take into account an
individual's or community's culture, history, religion, uniqueness, dreams,
financial need, property rights, or any other purely human contrivance. In
and of itself, nature is a perpetual motion machine..  Nature will function
just fine until something or someone disrupts its cycles to a point that the
engine stops. Very clearly we can see the train coming at us and we don't
seem to be able to get off the track.  

Quenton Dokken, Ph.D.
President/CEO
Gulf of Mexico Foundation, Inc.

361-882-3939 office
361-442-6064 cell
qdokken at gulfmex.org

Office:
3833 South Staples
Suite S214
Corpus Christi, TX 78411

Mail:
PMB 51  
5403 Everhart Rd.
Corpus Christi, TX 78411

www.gulfmex.org

-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Szmant, Alina
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:09 PM
To: Pedro H. Rodríguez; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] To Dennis Hubbard (What agency should list corals
under the Endangered)

I think the biggest difference between the natural sciences and the social
sciences might be in our views of what is sustainable...  Many of us natural
scientists think that the terms "sustainable development"  or "sustainable
exploitation of resources"  are oxymorons!   There is nothing sustainable
about human development or exploitation as long as human population growth
is not halted and human population size is greatly reduced.

*************************************************************************
Dr. Alina M. Szmant
Professor of Marine Biology
Center for Marine Science and Dept of Biology and Marine Biology
University of North Carolina Wilmington
5600 Marvin Moss Ln
Wilmington NC 28409 USA
tel:  910-962-2362  fax: 910-962-2410  cell: 910-200-3913
http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
*******************************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
[mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Pedro H.
Rodríguez
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:39 PM
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] To Dennis Hubbard (What agency should list corals
under the Endangered)

WE scientists? The social and eonomic scientists dealing with
natural-resource use apply the same scientific philosophy as you and me,
Dennis, and their goal is to maximize social welfare under the constraint of
sustainable resources. I see no conflict of interest.. 
 
Pedro
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