[Coral-List] Alert Diver Article on proposed coral listing

mtupper mtupper at coastal-resources.org
Tue May 14 16:12:37 EDT 2013

No argument with that. But what is the core reason for all those energy-using
activities? It is to feed, house and transport an exponentially growing
population. My point is that energy use is a symptom, not a root cause, albeit a
symptom with all kinds of unwanted side effects. If we really want to address
all the issues degrading the Earth's environment, we would need to reduce the
human population. However, since nobody in their right mind wishes for global
war, famine or plague (the things that used to control human populations), we
are stuck. All we can do is address the symptoms and not the root cause.

Mark Tupper

On May 14, 2013 at 12:42 PM Ulf Erlingsson <ceo at lindorm.com> wrote:

>  I suggest you do an energy budget for every activity you do. That will open
> you eyes. You mention polluting. Chemicals are produced by using a lot of
> energy. You mention clearcutting. Unless you cut down the trees with saws and
> axes and machetes, and transporting them out with only horses or other
> animals, you are using fossil fuels. And the food you eat is produced after
> plowing, harrow, harvesting with diesel-fueled tractors, and fertilizing with
> something that very likely is produced using a lot of energy. The amount of
> energy use that we see is not the major part. Energy use is everywhere in our
> society - and a lot of it is wasted.
>  Ulf Erlingsson
>  On 2013-05-14, at 14:37, mtupper wrote:
>      > >      Ulf Erlingsson wrote:
> > 
> >      > I see several replies to my comment, but NOBODY mentions the core
> >      > problem: We are depleting a limited natural resource at an
> >      > unsustainable rate.
> >      > 
> >      > Of course nobody wants to face this reality, because it impacts ALL
> >      > OF US.
> >      > 
> >      > So by denying it, WE ARE NO BETTER than the ones we criticize, the
> >      > fisheries, the agricultural runoffers, etc.
> >      > 
> >      > Let me state this clearly: OUR PRESENT SOCIETY IS FOUNDED ON AN
> >      > 
> >      > That, and nothing else, is the CORE issue our civilization is facing.
> >      > Deal with it.
> > 
> > 
> >      The CORE issue our civilization is dealing with is overpopulation. Even
> > if we stopped burning fossil fuels, the human race is likely capable of
> > polluting, clearcutting, "runoffing", dewatering, fishing, and generally
> > abusing this planet into oblivion. I think a lot of people like to choose
> > their (least) favourite issue to deal with, but aren't they all synergistic
> > to some degree? For example,might corals not be more susceptible to certain
> > levels of pollutants if they are simultaneously dealing with thermal stress?
> > Fish are certainly less resilient to overfishing when their habitat is also
> > being destroyed by other activities (or by warming/acidification). There
> > seems to be a view among many that climate is global but pollution,
> > overharvesting, etc. are local problems. They are not only local problems.
> > They are global problems too. You can find all kinds of nasties in the water
> > hundreds of km from the nearest populated landmass. Fisheries all over the
> > world are in decline. Other than polar regions, pretty much all the world's
> > coastlines are inhabited to some degree - certainly most of the areas where
> > coral reefs occur.
> > 
> >      Anyway, when it comes to energy consumption, I think you would be more
> > correct to say:
> > 
> >      "That, and everything else, is the core issue our civilization is
> > dealing with."
> > 
> >      Cheers,
> >      Mark
> > 
> >  > 

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