[Coral-List] Fw: Proliferation of Acropora prolifera

vassil zlatarski vzlatarski at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 6 14:46:27 EDT 2013


From: vassil zlatarski <vzlatarski at yahoo.com>
To: Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Proliferation of Acropora prolifera

Dennis and prolifera interested colleagues,

Of course, in cores is tough to have enough information for branching colonies with Acropora size.  There are no communications for presence of prolifera in the outcrops in DR, but this is the key place to look.  Please count with changes of morphological picture.  The more abundant lately distribution of prolifera is coming with various
 hybrid morphologies, more diverse in comparison with the observed decades ago and from the classical books.  In grosso modo they are less different from A. cervicornis
 than from A. palmata.  The explanation intuitively comes from the presence of back-crossing and from the fact that F1 prolifera is back-crossing only with A. cervicornis.  Isn't it not logical in such case to be produced colonies morphologies more similar to A. cervicornis?  I am sure you will enjoy recently made photos of the hybrid with different colony morphology and this will be helpful for the work in the outcrops.



131 Fales Rd., Bristol, RI 02809, USA;  tel.: +1-401-254-5121

 From: Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
To: vassil zlatarski <vzlatarski at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Coral -List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa..gov> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Proliferation of Acropora prolifera

Vassil et al.

I have never seen anything that I'd swear was fossil prolifera in outcrop, but I have seen plenty of cervicornis and palmata. However, I must admit that I wasn't looking that close at the "cervicornis" to see if there were aberrant morphologies.. There are cases in the Holocene of western DR (Lago Enriquillo) where the morphologies are highly varied, However, I'd attribute that more to varying environmental conditions than hybridization.

In cores it is much tougher as the stick-like morphology makes recovery with a rotary drilling system difficult. When you do get recovery, it's a broken stock and I'm not a good enough taxonomist to tell the difference in just a straight 10-cm section.

Having said this, the short answer is, "I don't think so".


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:08 PM, vassil zlatarski <vzlatarski at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Dennis,  
>Nothing unusual, what is bothering you?
>Would you, please, tell if you found fossil A. prolifera?  Thanks in advance!
>131 Fales Rd., Bristol, RI 02809, USA;  tel.: +1-401-254-5121
> From: "frahome at yahoo.com" <frahome at yahoo.com>
>To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> 
>Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 10:06 AM
>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] A World without Coral Reefs?
>If somehow we could manage to keep
>moving the crushing economic machine in spite of everything, we would get
>probably easily used to a world without coral reefs as we did to a sea without
>big fishes, a land without forests and wildlife, rivers without clean waters
>How many do even
>know there was a forest where most of our monocultures grow or cities lay
>nowadays. Give it one or two generations and coral reefs could be forgotten
>too. Algae ecosystems are still nicer than monocultures or shopping malls and
>car parks after all.
>Bad jokes aside, the only hope lies in the fact
>that the machine is choking, and it is chocking because billing time is
>approaching. But until we try to cure it with the same recipe and mindset we have
 used to drive it, I doubt we will make any progress.
>From: Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
>To: Phillip Dustan <phil.dustan at gmail..com> 
>Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] A World without Coral Reefs?
>Wow, what a great poster! Do you have this in a Powerpoint format or
>something else where I could show the slides to a class? The resolution
 not hold up from the jpg.
>On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Phillip Dustan <phil.dustan at gmail.com>wrote:
>> Dear Dennis,
>>  Your post reminded me of a poster I assembled in 2004 based on Sir
>> Nicholas Nuttalls campaign to save the groupers in the Bahamas. He used
>> "Imagine the Bahamas without grouper" which I turned into  Imagine the Keys
>> without corals?
>> Sad to say it's just about happened.................
>>  Here's the Dropbox url
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbe9u1a2a6cxnsh/Imagine%20the%20Keys%20without%20corals%20poster.jpg
>> All the best
>>   Phil
>> *"When one tugs at a
 single thing in nature *
>> *he finds it attached to the rest of the world."*
>> *   John Muir*
>> Phillip Dustan PhD
>> Department of Biology
>> College of Charleston, SC
>> Charleston SC  29424
>> 843-953-8086 office
>> 843-224-3321 (mobile)
>> On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Dennis Hubbard <
>> dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu> wrote:
>>> Steve raises an important point that I've been wrestling with for the past
>>> five years or so every time I convene my *Biology, Geology and Politics of
>>> Coral Reefs* course; at least one student has asked me this very question
>>> every time I teach it.
>>> If my understanding of the consensus is correct, even in the most
>>> optimistic of scenarios (a 50% reduction
 of 1990 emissions levels by early
>>> to mid century), we'll be seeing CO2 levels at least in the mid-400s and
>>> then will probably not see numbers below that in the lifetime of our
>>> youngest contributor.
>>> I wouldn't advocate for just "facing reality" as this makes it too easy
>>> for
>>> anyone to use this as an excuse to do nothing - and many of the proposed
>>> measures will probably have at least collateral environmental benefits
>>> even
>>> if
>>> corals aren't among the recipients. So, I would ask a modified version of
>>> Steve's question. If we do feel that reefs as we know (knew?) them are not
>>> likely in the future, then 1) how do we either triage what to save (I
>>> argue
>>> against this as it's the same hubris that got us to this point), or 2) how
>>> do we determine a strategy that focuses on the
 things that are most likely
>>> to be key ecological elements in the future (note, I use the word
>>> "elements" in favor of "species" on purpose).
>>> Just to make a wild projection.... we won't reach consensus.
>>> Dennis
>>> On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >    Dear Listers,
>>> >    I hate to put this out there, but I'm beginning to wonder if I've
>>> been
>>> >    kidding myself.
>>> >    I've been collaborating with others in an effort to urge the diving
>>> > industry
>>> >    to openly address the issue of local and global threats to coral
>>> >    including an honest assessment of the pending impacts of climate
>>> > change. In
>>> >    doing  so  I've  found  it necessary to tread carefully in that
>>> strong
>>> >    resistance remains intact throughout the industry at just the mention
>>> > of the
>>> >    term climate change.
>>> >    But that's not really my focus at this point. What I want to know is
>>> > this:
>>> >    Are efforts to forestall or mitigate the impacts of climate change on
>>> > coral
>>> >    reef ecosystems already past the point being practical? Are efforts
>>> like
>>> >    last  year's  consensus  statement  from  the  ICRS  just based on
>>> the
>>>   institutional inertia of conservationists who value hope over truth
>>> and
>>> >    scientists who can't see the reefs for the corals? Am I (are we)
>>> > spreading
>>> >    false beliefs and misdirecting efforts by persisting that coral reefs
>>> > have a
>>> >    future rather than urging that we begin to address the greater
>>> fallout
>>> > from
>>> >    their inevitable collapse?
>>> >    I'm honestly beginning to wonder.
>>> >    Regards,
>>> >     Steve
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Coral-List mailing list
>>> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Dennis Hubbard
>>> Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
>>> (440) 775-8346
>>> * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
>>>  Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>Dennis Hubbard
>Chair, Dept
 of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
>(440) 775-8346
>* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
>Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
>Coral-List mailing list
>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>Coral-List mailing list
>Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov


Dennis Hubbard 
Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074 
(440) 775-8346

 "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"
 Benjamin Stein: "Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream"

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