[Coral-List] fish and algae

Martin Moe martin_moe at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 20 10:27:46 EST 2014



Dennis,
 
There are no scientific papers that have been written on the
Diadema larvae culture work conducted by Tom Capo, Dave Vaughan, or me. Diadema
larvae are notoriously difficult to culture and there is only one peer reviewed
paper on larval development of Diadema.
 
Larval development, growth and morphology of the sea urchin
Diadema antillarum. By Ginny L. Eckert. Bulletin of Marine Science, 63(2),
443-451, 1998.
 
Eckert’s work was conducted in small containers and resulted
in only a few juveniles, but she was able to describe the larval stages of this
species under culture conditions. 
 
Tom Capo’s work in the late1990s and early 2000s did result
in one paper on post metamorphic growth and metabolism of D. antillarum, and a
paper on none invasive spawning of D. antillarum.
 
Postmetamorphic growth and metabolism of long-spined black
sea urchin (Diadema antillarum) reared in the laboratory. Nasseer Idrisi,
Thomas R. Capo and Joseph E. Serafy, Mar. Fresh. Behav. Physiol, June 2003,
Vol. 36, No. 2, pp 87-95
 
And
 
Non-Invasive Spawning of Captive Diadema antillarum
(Phillippi) under Photo-Thermal Control. T.R. Capo, N.C. Sukhraj and A. E.
Boyd, M. W. Miller, A. M. Szmant. Sea Urchins, Fisheries and Ecology.
Proceedings of the International Conference on Sea Urchin Fisheries and
Aquaculture. 2003
 
Tom did mention to me that he did not publish on the larval
culture of Diadema because the results of the larval culture program were too inconsistent
for publication. The program did, however, produce significant numbers of
juveniles and some release of hatchery produced juveniles on natural reef areas
was attempted. The results of these efforts were not reported or published.
 
I have been working on the larval culture of D. antillarum
since 2007. However, my efforts could be described as “artisanal”, one old guy
working in a makeshift lab. I have been moderately successful in this effort achieving;
long term brood stock maintenance, non invasive spawning on demand, rearing of
up to 50,000 larvae to competency in specially developed small culture vessels,
settlement and metamorphosis, early juvenile survival, growth to maturity, spawning
of lab reared adults, and successful rearing and spawning of the F2 generation.
 
What I have not achieved, however, is the very essence of
the effort, consistent large scale culture of reef-ready juveniles. I
recognize, however that this final step is beyond my capability, funding, and
facilities.
 
The Mote Marine Laboratory has recognized the criticality of
restoring D. antillarum, the key coral reef herbivore to Keys reefs, and Dr. Dave
Vaughan, Executive Director of the Mote Marine Laboratory Tropical Research
Laboratory on Summerland Key, Florida, has developed a program and facilities
for large scale production of D. antillarum. This effort is in conjunction with
extensive coral restoration efforts and lacks the funding, personnel, and
facilities to mount the intensity of effort required to develop this program
past the initial effort. Mote has been successful in the large scale culture of
juvenile D. antillarum, but as with the prior work of Tom Capo and me, unknown
factors have prevented continuous large scale production of D. antillarum
juveniles.  Basically, the structural
foundation of the technology for large scale Diadema culture has been
developed, but critical work on water quality, biochemical cues for larval
development and metamorphosis, settlement substrates, juvenile survival and
growth, development of survival behavior in juveniles, and development of
successful methods of deployment on natural reefs have yet to be developed.
 
Compared with the great economic value of western Atlantic
coral reefs and the critical importance of restoring natural herbivory to these
reefs, the financial and facility support for the development of D. antillarum
culture has been miniscule. I realize that it is important for me to write up
in some format the results of my efforts and make this information widely
available to aid future work. I have extensive notes, reports, and photography on
every rearing run and I will put my efforts into this in the near future.
 
Martin Moe



On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:00 PM, Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu> wrote:
 
Magnus:

Thank for the great reference. I was unaware of this paper - and certainly
Connell's classic work is something that we all quote.

This is way outside of my expertise, but I always felt that the IDH was an
ideal distribution that would appear if we had ideal systems spread along a
disturbance continuum. However, it strikes me that where a particular
environment is relative to the last perturbation can create data points
that will mask the theoretical relationship. For instance, imagine three
areas. One gets disturbed frequetly, the other every 200 year and the third
somewhere in between. If they all got devastated by a direct hit from a
slow moving Cat 5 hurricane/Typhoon three days ago, neither their abundance
nor diversity are going to look much different from one another. So, the
lack of "best fits" for this on a biological scale doesn't particularly
worry me. But, my idea of frequent is probably different than that of most
folks on the listserve.

I will look at the Fox paper when I get a chance and, whatever my ultimate
conclusion, I still think its a good idea to shake the weeds every now and
then. Perhaps somebody like Jeremy (Jackson) who is much closer to the
theoretical and practical end of this than I am can provide better
perspctive.

Dennis




On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Magnus Johnson <m.johnson at hull.ac.uk>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I noticed reference to the intermediate disturbance hypothesis.  I
> encountered this paper  (below) last year and it made me rethink much of
> what I had thought logical.  The IDH has intrinsic appeal but having read
> Fox I've had to reconsider.  A shame because it was such a lovely theory!
>
> Cheers, Magnus
>
> Fox JW (2013) The intermediate disturbance hypothesis should be abandoned.
> Trends Ecol Evol 28:86-92
>
> A leading idea about how disturbances and other environmental fluctuations
> affect species diversity is the intermediate disturbance hypothesis (IDH).
> The IDH states that diversity of competing species is, or should be
> expected to be, maximized at intermediate frequencies and/or intensities of
> disturbance or environmental change. I argue that the IDH has been refuted
> on both empirical and theoretical grounds, and so should be abandoned.
> Empirical studies only rarely find the predicted humped
> diversitydisturbance relationship. Theoretically, the three major
> mechanisms thought to produce humped diversitydisturbance relationships are
> logically invalid and do not actually predict what they are thought to
> predict. Disturbances and other environmental fluctuations can affect
> diversity, but for different reasons than are commonly recognized.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:
> coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Gittings -
> NOAA Federal
> Sent: 19 February 2014 14:35
> To: Dennis Hubbard
> Cc: Bill Allison; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] fish and algae
>
> Dennis,
>
> I don't want to steer discussion away from the damselfish, but I will take
> your lead to say something about management of complex systems like coral
> reefs.
>
> The magic of coral reefs has always been their high diversity, which
> promotes redundancies in the services that each species provides.  So when
> some relationships wane, others wax, protecting the service.  Think
> intermediate disturbance hypothesis, changing species at cleaning stations
> and multispecies foraging.  It's clear that massive biodiversity changes
> are actively occurring among not only the fish, corals and other obvious
> reef species, but more importantly the cryptic species.  Just listen.
>  Aren't Atlantic/Caribbean reefs quieter than they used to be?  And when I
> turn over a rock, aren't I seeing far fewer brittle stars, worms, forams,
> bryozoans, sipunculans, and other fauna than I did 30+ years ago?  They're
> just gone.  But they were once food for something.
>
> I' believe that the best way for human "manage" is to do what we can to
> give nature the best chance to take care of itself.  For me, that boils
> down to what Leopold simply called "keeping all the parts" - maintaining
> biodiversity so a disturbed ecosystem can resist continued change and
> rebuild populations, services, and redundancies.  The challenge is to
> translate that into a management principle that guides decisions about
> things we can control.  Personally, I'm a fan of precautionary approaches
> to management - control human activities before they become stressors..
>  Unfortunately, that approach is difficult to sell, and it has given way
> to one where the burden of proof is often put on managers to show that a
> problem is having an impact.  By then, it can be too late.
>
> The challenge for you students, I believe, is going to be in changing the
> way people think - about conservation and the management that will be
> needed to accomplish it.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Dennis Hubbard
> <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>wrote:
>
> > Hi Alina:
> >
> > It's nice to know that I can always count on a reasoned and unbiased
> > observation from you. I hope people keep responding, but my sense is
> > that the discussion will eventually have to go in the direction of,
> > "So, what do we do? Kill damselfish, increase their predators, do
> > something an the algal side, or suck it up and watch the results of
> > our past actions. To me, this is where science meets management. Will
> > listing corals negatively impacted do anything to fix this? If we are
> > going to insert ourselves into the natural system.... again..... what
> > specifically do we do, other than "something"? Unless something has
> > changed in the science, adding nutrients into the mix muddies the water
> even more. What fun!!
> >
> > Deny
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Szmant, Alina <szmanta at uncw..edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Margaret Miller and I looked at damselfish effects on large coral
> > > heads back in later 1990s.  Very large Montastraea faveolata heads
> > > (now
> > > Orbicella) had pretty significant damselfish laws up on the tops and
> > sides
> > > of colonies that were many hundreds of years old.  Those colonies
> > > would obviously not have grown to those sizes with large lawns on
> > > their upper surfaces, thus this was a new issue for those colonies.
> > > Our hypothesis
> > was
> > > that lack of predation was allowing the damsels (mostly 3 spot) to
> > > be
> > brave
> > > and have their lawns up in the reef penthouses instead of hiding in
> > clumps
> > > of A. cervicornis where they were formerly abundant, but we really
> > > had no way to actually test that.  I saw similar problems in La
> > > Parguera with
> > tops
> > > of coral heads including large Dendrogyras all colonized by damsels
> > > and also Echinometra (boring urchins that basically ground down
> > > these coral heads to sand and silt).
> > >
> > > The question is whether these fish and urchins were more abundant
> > > that in the good ol' days because of continued over fishing over the
> > > decades, whether the damsels moved from branching coral hide outs to
> > > reef pent-house real estate because of the loss of the branching
> > > coral coupled with lower demise rate due to predation if their lawns
> > > are more exposed,
> > or
> > > some additional/other issue affecting damsel fish abundance.  In my
> > > mind, looking back over 40 years of PR diving, and 30 years in the
> > > FL Keys,  these lawns are more abundant and more exposed than when
> > > my attention
> > was
> > > first drawn to them by Les Kaufman's work.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small
> > > minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt
> > >
> > > "The time is always right to do what is right"  Martin Luther King
> > >
> > > ********************************************************************
> > > *****
> > > Dr. Alina M. Szmant
> > > Professor of Marine Biology
> > > Center for Marine Science and Dept of Biology and Marine Biology
> > > University of North Carolina Wilmington
> > > 5600 Marvin Moss Ln
> > > Wilmington NC 28409 USA
> > > tel:  910-962-2362  fax: 910-962-2410  cell: 910-200-3913
> > > http://people.uncw.edu/szmanta
> > > *******************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov [mailto:
> > > coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] On Behalf Of Bill Allison
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 8:07 AM
> > > To: Dennis Hubbard
> > > Cc: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] fish and algae
> > >
> > > Hi Dennis,
> > >
> > > No doubt damsels kill coral. As you suggest, it is most likely that
> > > underlying causes such as bleaching, pollution, and overfishing tilt
> > > the playing field too allow more coral destruction, or less
> > > construction, or both, but it's much more satisfying spiritually and
> > > economically to have
> > a
> > > critter to blame and kill, non?
> > >
> > > On several reefs that I have surveyed over time corals survived only
> > > in Stegastes nigricans territories after repeat COT outbreaks (I
> > > also
> > noticed
> > > coral survival in damsel territories after the 1998 bleaching).
> > > During
> > the
> > > second COT outbreak all the preferred COT prey were gone and the COT
> > > were eating whatever was left. Some coral colonies within but near
> > > the
> > periphery
> > > of S. nigricans territories were damaged along their outer edges but
> > apart
> > > from that, corals in S. nigricans territories survived these
> > > invasions unscathed. I am not the first to have noticed this (e.g.,
> > > Glynn and
> > Colgan,
> > > 1988)
> > >
> > > Glynn, P. W. and M. W. Colgan (1988). "Defense of corals and
> > > enhancement
> > of
> > > coral diversity by territorial damselfish." Proc. 6th ICRS, Townsville
> 2:
> > > 157-164.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Dennis Hubbard
> > > <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>wrote:
> > >
> > > > When I was a young reef geologist, I was told by most biologists
> > visiting
> > > > West Indies Lab that Damselfish "farm" the algal turfs and
> > > > actually
> > crop
> > > > them for maximum yield. As such, they help maintain this
> > > > autotrophic
> > > system
> > > > which transforms organic carbon and nutrient into a form (algal
> > > > tissue) that can work its way up the food chain. Walter Adey used
> > > > turfs to
> > > maintain
> > > > balance in his "microcosms" at the Smithsonian, has been a valued
> > > > consultant to aquaria (including the large GBR tank) and has
> > > > received patents for "algal scrubbers". So my sense was that the
> > > > service
> > provided
> > > by
> > > > both the turfs and the fish that regulated them is still recognized.
> > > >
> > > > I was just looking for photos to shamelessly use for class and
> > > > came
> > > across
> > > > an NPR piece (*Tiny Damselfish May Destroy a Ree*f) dated August
> > > > 11 in which Richard Harris (who regularly appears on *Morning
> > > > Edition* and
> > *All
> > > > Things Considered*) described a "war going on between corals and
> > > > 'a creeping menace'.... algae". This crux of the story is that
> > > > parrotfish
> > > are
> > > > the "allies of coral" and 'damselfish promote algal growth by
> > > > killing
> > > coral
> > > > to create new space for algal colonization'. Enter the fishermen
> > > > who
> > have
> > > > taken out the predators who used to "keep the damselfish in
> > > > check".. The result is that damselfish are disproportionately
> > > > opening up more space
> > by
> > > > killing corals while scaring off the "coral-friendly" parrots by
> > > > shear tenacity.
> > > >
> > > > Might anyone put this into perspective for me so I don't tell a
> > > > story
> > > that
> > > > is no longer true? Each of these points has a ring of truth...
> > > overfishing
> > > > is real and algae can inhibit coral recruitment. However, the
> > > > transformation of damsels from fish "tending their gardens" to
> > > > "the
> > > primary
> > > > ally of the creeping manace" seems a bit dramatic. It also seems
> > > > to conflate algal turfs (which I understand the damsels are
> > > > cultivating)
> > and
> > > > macroalgae (which can be equally damaging to both corals and turfs
> > > > by shading and a host of other pathways).
> > > >
> > > > As I hope to get to this in about a week in class, I'd appreciate
> > > > it if folks who are closer to this can give me a sense of whether
> > > > eradicating algal turfs and the scurrilous damselfish that
> > > > encourage them is the
> > new
> > > > reef paradigm. If there is a place I can send a smart
> > > > undergraduate
> > (not
> > > > necessarily a NS student) to read about this new balance, that
> > > > would be even better. What I have read has argued that there are
> > > > ties between macro-algal proliferation and both overfishing and
> > > > increased nutrient input. While there have been numerous
> > > > thoughtful discussions about the details of these interactions, I
> > > > have understood that both of these possible linkages are are still
> > > > considered to act at some level. I can
> > > also
> > > > imagine a delicate balance between the benefits of encouraging
> > > > turfs
> > and
> > > > clearing space by chomping on live coral.... and that fishing has
> > > impacted
> > > > this. My question is whether situation portrayed in this NPR
> > > > interview
> > is
> > > > correct and that the damselfish/turf ralationship shas gon awry to
> > > > the point that we need to stop worrying about lionfish and focus
> > > > on what I agree is, "pound-for-pound", the meanest fish on the reef.
> > > >
> > > > Dennis
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dennis Hubbard
> > > > Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
> > > > (440) 775-8346
> > > >
> > > > * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong
> > > > stop"*  Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "... the earth is, always has been, and always will be more
> > > beautiful
> > than
> > > it is useful." - Ophuls, 1977
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Coral-List mailing list
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dennis Hubbard
> > Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
> > (440) 775-8346
> >
> > * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
> > Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml..noaa.gov
> > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Steve Gittings, Science Coordinator
> NOAA Office of National Marine Sanctuaries
> 1305 East West Hwy., N/ORM62
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-- 
Dennis Hubbard
Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
(440) 775-8346

* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
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