[Coral-List] The Irony of the Pope's science - is it's selectivity.

Durwood M. Dugger ddugger at biocepts.com
Thu Jun 25 10:22:11 EDT 2015

While I would agree that it is ironic that the Pope is seemingly embracing science - I think the irony is his selectivity in the science he embraces. He still leads a major religion that doesn’t support birth control and or a woman’s right to control her reproductive destiny. This is hypocrisy at its worst - lecturing the world on climate change and environmental degradation (Did he forget to mention critical resource depletion conflicts - also known as war?) all the while enabling, encouraging - if not demanding unlimited population growth. Over population is the primary cause of all anthropogenic climate change, environmental degradation and resource conflicts. Perhaps neither climate science nor the world of political (includes religion) manipulation are as simple as many of you seem to think. 

Best regards,

Durwood M. Dugger, Pres.
ddugger at biocepts.com <mailto:ddugger at biocepts.com>
BCI, Inc. <http://www.biocepts.com/BCI/Home.html>
On Jun 24, 2015, at 12:00 PM, coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list-request at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Spratly Island update (Ulf Erlingsson)
  2. Ecology of Caribbean Reef Fishes in Puerto Rico, USA
     (Mithriel MacKay)
  3. Re: Confirmation bias (Douglas Fenner)
  4. climate Change "deniers" (David Evans)
  5. CNN broadcast coral reef restoration (Sarah Frias-Torres)


Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 10:39:05 -0400
From: Ulf Erlingsson <ceo at lindorm.com>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Spratly Island update
To: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <2F67D62E-F214-4C73-B700-8F4D3F88523D at lindorm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

I have to make an amendment to my statement. Since the islands in question are actually in Philippine waters, it would be wrong to ask the Chinese for permission to come in and monitor it. The request should be to the Philippine government, and since they don't have the military to back it up with, a separate request should go to the White House to provide military escort for the mission should the Philippine government request it.

On 2015-06 -23, at 8:12 , Ulf Erlingsson wrote:

> On 2015-06 -22, at 17:02 , Douglas Fenner wrote:
>> Here we are, we're all
>> doing our level best to save reefs against huge odds, and these people are
>> deliberately destroying reefs and saying that the damage is "localised,
>> temporary, controllable and restorable".  If so, let international
>> scientists come in and take data and verify what you say.  There is no way
>> they would allow that.
> I love the idea! It could be made as a public petition that people can sign online.
> Ulf Erlingsson, Ph.D.
> President and CEO
> Lindorm, Inc.
> 10699 NW 123 St Rd
> Medley, FL 33178
> http://lindorm.com
> ceo at lindorm.com
> +1-305 888 0762 office
> +1-305 308 6334 mobile
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:14:23 -0500
From: Mithriel MacKay <mithriel.mackay at gmail.com>
Subject: [Coral-List] Ecology of Caribbean Reef Fishes in Puerto Rico,
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
	<CAMzFUZ_Az9qfNQ24JsWE=Cyoren9f=qZsOoKyY1q0=g4gtP0nw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

The Marine and Coastal Ecology Research Center has summer field intensive
programs posted.

The Ecology of Caribbean Reef Fishes and several other one week programs
are offered at the field station in Puerto Rico USA. Prices are being
subsidized by the coastal center to keep them low for interested university
students and graduates.

No experience required!

For details and a list of other programs being offered this summer in the
Caribbean, please visit the website (www.Marine-Eco.org) and Education Hub (
www.Marine-Eco.org/mcerc-moodle). You can see our photo Gallery at

Questions not covered on the links above? Wrire to Dr. MacKay at mcerc.
mail at gmail.com.

See you in the Caribbean!

*}-wh^ale>   **}-wh^ale>   **}-wh^ale>   **}-wh^ale>   **}-wh^ale>   *

Mithriel M. MacKay Ph.D.
Marine Mammal Behavioral Ecology Group
Department of Marine Biology
Texas A&M University, Galveston
(830) 688-9878
Mithriel at Marine-Eco.org <mithriel.mackay at gmail.com>


Director of Research and Education
Marine and Coastal Ecology Research Center
San German, Puerto Rico, USA
Pipe Creek, Texas 78063
Website                  www.Marine-Eco.org <http://www.marine-eco.org/>
E-mail                     Mithriel at Marine-Eco.org <MCERC.mail at gmail.com>
Education HUb         www.Marine-Eco.org/mcerc-moodle


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 08:48:24 -1100
From: Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Confirmation bias
To: Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net>
Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
	<CAOEmEkHEY6zmyixYh=KgTJO1E8MOU1w=r5yRynx4+Dn--X4Gpg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

    Well said, Steve, I agree!  As the leader of one of the world's
largest religious groups, with 1.3 billion members, it is fantastic to see
the Pope put out such a detailed document, both very supportive of
stewardship of the environment, and science-based.  He is surely the first
Pope with a Master's degree in Chemistry.  He clearly listened to the
Vatican Academy of Sciences, which I've read is small but prestigious, with
several Nobel prizewinners (yes, the Roman Catholic Church has an Academy
of Sciences!).  Note, I would be very supportive of this even if he had
never mentioned climate change or global warming once.  (I also don't think
we should hold it to the standards of a peer-reviewed science paper.
That's not what this is intended to be.)  I also have the impression that
the Pope is not the only religious leader around the world that supports
stewardship of the environment and listening to science, there are others
as well (the Dali Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, comes to mind).  The way to make
progress is to emphasize the positive and work cooperatively to benefit the
environment (which provides us with so many ecosystem services).

    Cheers,  Doug

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Steve Mussman <sealab at earthlink.net> wrote:

> The irony here is that Pope Francis is embracing science as the basis of
> his argument just as Galileo did. In today's world science is still being
> challenged by some on the basis of religious dogma. But here we have the
> pope putting this encyclical out there risking a theistic (and agnostic)
> onslaught from all those whose orthodoxy takes issue with his science-based
> perspective.. Got to admire his courage and conviction as he knowingly
> steps into the fray. His views on the human drivers behind climate change
> may be controversial, but it seems to me that his observations on the state
> of the world's oceans and coral reefs is spot on and beyond dispute.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Eugene Shinn <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
> wrote:
>> Climate change has become a religion and everyone knows arguing religion
>> is a waste of time. Now the Pope has provided confirmation. As someone
>> pointed out recently he represents the institution that forced Galileo
>> to recant. Guess its time for me to  recant before I get burned at the
>> stake. So I will stop now. Gene
>> --
>> No Rocks, No Water, No Ecosystem (EAS)
>> ------------------------------------ -----------------------------------
>> E. A. Shinn, Courtesy Professor
>> University of South Florida
>> College of Marine Science Room 221A
>> 140 Seventh Avenue South
>> St. Petersburg, FL 33701
>> <eugeneshinn at mail.usf.edu>
>> Tel 727 553-1158
>> ---------------------------------- -----------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coral-List mailing list
>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
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> _______________________________________________
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Douglas Fenner
Contractor with Ocean Associates, Inc.
PO Box 7390
Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA

phone 1 684 622-7084

Join the International Society for Reef Studies

"belief in climate change is optional, participation is not."

website:  http://independent.academia.edu/DouglasFenner

blog: http://ocean.si.edu/blog/reefs-american-samoa-story-hope


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 21:05:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: David Evans <davidjevans1818 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Coral-List] climate Change "deniers"
To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
	<55026069.4282759.1435093555264.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

All -?I honestly don't understand this. Not the climate science, that I understand, or at least we'll enough. What I don't understand is that this childish discussion is still going on. I think there are plenty of worthy and important discussions about climate change that certainly should and do take place. But this one? Really?
I think mostly of Gene in this and I mean this with respect, but the cute old curmudgeon thing only goes so far. Too many times has some link or posted news just not panned out - was never really well based to begin with. Why do we have to go through that part of it every time??
We get it. This is how science works, but can we take the childish part elsewhere? If you have something to discuss, can it please be based on your own work or on someone other than the staunch "denialists" website? Like maybe an actual peer reviewed science based paper or article?
We all should stop to consider: If we are truly a scientist, what level of error do we give our own position - whichever that may be? 
What ever happened to the cautionary principal? Is it worthwhile to extend our own potential error just to make sure we choose right based on risk and consequences?
If you are sticking with taking the chance no matter the expected consequences, ignoring the risk, what sort of evidence would you expect the consensus to accept in your support? (Being crochity and snarky doesn't count)
Yes, a consensus can be wrong. We all accept that. But put up or shut the door on your way out. 
I would think coral scientists would be most in tune with what's going on in our changing world. Coral reefs must be one of the closest analogs to climate change.
Any one can find a reef a patch that is "healthy." Does that mean reefs are not in danger? Corals have always changed. Does that mean this change is not caused by human activity? Coral degradation on massive scale is almost always non point source. Does that mean since we didn't catch a culprit with dynamite then there's nothing we're doing to affect reefs?
We get it. You don't believe it but can you keep it on your own time and focus on contributing something you actually know about?
I'm sorry. I just don't understand. I hope I wasn't rude.
David J. Evans


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 01:15:05 -0400
From: Sarah Frias-Torres <sfrias_torres at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Coral-List] CNN broadcast coral reef restoration
To: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <SNT148-W52F490CC8C8B85A700DC7E81AF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

CNN International will broadcast a special on Seychelles. They will showcase the large scale coral reef restoration project I'm leading and coordinating there. Below are the opening event and repeat broadcasting times in GMT.
CNN InternationalINSIDE AFRICA SEYCHELLES: Coral Reef Restoration, Bird Island and Curieuse Island
FIRST BROADCAST ? FRIDAY 26TH JUNE, 17:30 GMT (Repeated)Saturday 27 June: 04:30 GMT; 11:30 GMT ; 18:30 GMT Sunday 28 June: 01:30 GMTTuesday 30 June: 09:30 GMTWednesday 1 July: 04:30 GMT
If you miss the broadcast, it will be posted online most likely after the 29th of June here: http://www.cnn.com/specials/africa/inside-africa 

Sarah Frias-Torres, Ph.D. Coordinator Reef Rescuers ProgramIsland Conservation Centre Nature Seychelles,Amitie, Praslin, Seychelleshttp://www.natureseychelles.org/what-we-do/coral-reef-restoration-and-Research CollaboratorSmithsonian-National Museum of Natural Historyat Smithsonian Marine Station, Fort Pierce, FL, USATwitter: @GrouperDocBlog: http://grouperluna.wordpress.comhttp://independent.academia.edu/SarahFriasTorres



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