[Coral-List] Blue Alert
Steve Mussman
sealab at earthlink.net
Mon Nov 30 15:14:07 EST 2015
Dear Martina,
I share your frustrations and agree that it is most certainly time for a
change. There can be no doubt that whatever we have been doing has not
worked out as planned. Those of us who have been working within the diving
industry to raise awareness of the threats to coral reefs know this all too
well. Hopefully, your depiction of us as relentlessly preaching down to
"insensible users" is not the prevalent one. I know that I have made my
share of stupid/ignorant decisions while diving over the years and I often
refer to them when trying to make a point. To me, the crux of the issue that
you allude to focuses in on the reasons why we don't change and instead find
ourselves in this inalterable standoff. My friends and colleagues who
dismiss my concerns are not evil, ignorant or insensitive, but they do seem
to share common principles and therein lies the conundrum. Beyond
the obvious difficulties of bridging divergent world views is the fact that
our rancorous impasse continues to be empowered by antithetical sets of
facts. It is as if we live in different worlds. What I find most
disturbing is the utter and complete rejection of scientific opinion as
exemplified by their refusal to accept the reality of the threats described
in the consensus statements put out by the ICRS and the ISRS. In fact, as
you well know, they have simply created their own alternative
scientific view which calls into question almost every tenet supported by
the modern marine sciences. Maybe all this can be resolved by utilizing a
new approach, but ironically as the Paris conference opens there are still
too many divers as well as many within our industry's leadership who
are unwilling to see things for what they are. In fact, I'm told repeatedly
that the reefs are just fine and whatever problems do exist are just the
result of natural variations. I'm afraid that although I'm prepared to
listen and learn, I'm having trouble seeing how time, understanding and
humbleness will eventually bridge these gaps. Regards, Steve Mussman
-----Original Message-----
>From: martina
>Sent: Nov 26, 2015 6:07 AM
>To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Blue Alert
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>just a quick note: be it divers, fishermen, boaters, beach goers etc
>etc... aren't we done with the "us against them" yet? Sorry, but it
>seems to me a very old-fashioned approach, and one that clearly didn't
>pay off well. Time for a change, maybe?
>
>Personally, I'd get terribly annoyed if someone, for knowledged he/she
>may be, came to me preaching and treating me as I was a dummy insensible
>user. It doesn't surprise me at all this way didn't go much further in
>the past decades.
>
>We are all users (and abusers) of something (not necessarily nature) in
>some ways, and we all make very stupid decisions that affect our
>community. Shall we think of economy, for instance? Are we all super
>skilled in the subject and can we confirm we never behaved in such a way
>as to negatively influence global economic trends? Speaking for myself,
>I certainly can't. Not an excuse, of course, but let's put ourselves in
>other users' shoes for a moment. There's room for change but there are
>also reasons why we use and reasons why we may not change completely.
>Ignoring all this is a blind approach, and not a fair one.
>
>Then there's the other aspect: don't you feel that the same comments and
>blah blah goes on every couple of months? Apart from pointing the finger
>at the usual culprits (and maybe write yet another paper showing how bad
>they are), how many of us are really sitting down with "the evil side"
>and try to find a solution? I'm saying it REALLY trying? Please tell me
>something new, not the usual sentence "I tried but they are not
>interested because they are
>stupid/ignorant/greedy/insensitive/all-of-the-above", or we must
>conclude some of us are superheroes as apparently they are achieving
>such impossible aim (but it takes time, understanding and humbleness).
>
>While the "us against them" saga continues, our fellows from other
>branches of the conservation sciences are unveiling surprising things
>such as: the power of collaborative learning and management; the
>importance of conservation marketing; the value of local knowledge
>embedded into decision making and enforcement. And - hard to believe -
>some of them get results!
>
>It is very sad to realise not even scientists listen to other
>scientists. Then, why should users?
>
>Regards
>Martina
>
>
>
>Il 25/11/15 12:43, Steve Mussman ha scritto:
>> Peter, Nicole and Listers,
>> First let me say that I received a number of helpful responses and as a
result I have quite a few papers to sift through that relate to valuation.
That's a good thing, and I look forward to it. Thanks to all of you who took
the time to help me find my way. I also think that Nicole hit on yet another
important point. When we talk about the role of the "diving industry", it
might be best to break it down into subsets.. There are likely to be
different strategies that should be applied when we are attempting to reach
out to diverse populations of divers, dive shops, resorts and even
manufacturers. We can do that, and your thoughts and ideas help, but I also
have come to see these efforts as part of a bigger philosophical debate that
is brewing involving broader, conflicting world views. Les Kaufman brought
to my attention the divide that exists between those who believe that the
old tools and tactics of classical environmental conservation no longer
apply in this century. They!
> argue tha
>t our goals are misplaced and unrealistic. We need to change our view of
the natural world and become more pragmatic. They say we need to stop
advocating for pristine wilderness and instead find solace in "the swamp at
the edge of town". Nature, we are told is not so fragile and impoverished. I
guess that suggests that many of us are old-school in that we don't mind
admitting that we place a higher value on the sense of wonder that can only
be found in the relatively undisturbed, still-wild versions of nature.
Peter, you wrote that "asking if there are any studies that contradict what
appears to be the prevailing consensus among marine biologists that coral
reefs are increasingly being threatened by land-based pollutants,
over-fishing, and climate change is almost like asking if there are any
papers that report that sky is not blue". Well, that's what I'm trying to
say. The fact is that my industry's leaders have a myopic view of the sky .
. . one that refutes the "blue theo!
> ry". Inste
>ad, they see only the red hues and the green puff of a flawless Caribbean
sunset. Seriously, it is as if science doesn't exist. That's perhaps the
most disturbing part of the story.
>> Regards, Steve Mussman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---Original Message-----
>>> From: Peter Sale
>>> Sent: Nov 23, 2015 10:53 PM
>>> To: "Nicole L. Crane"
>>> Cc: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov"
>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Blue Alert
>>>
>>> Nicole,
>>> Yes, you understand the problem. Dive operators need to focus on the
dive sites they use, not the global decline on reefs. While we scientists
and other âcoral-listersâ need to acknowledge that what makes a reef
fantastic (to us) is not necessarily what makes a reef dive fantastic to the
sport diver who just went on it. Earlier today I received an e-mail not
copied to the list by a knowledgeable individual who told me about a dive
with friends on a biologically rich reef in SE Asia. At the end of the dive,
his friends consensus was that the reef was âpretty boring, because all the
coral was brownâ. For those friends, âgood diveâ does not correlate closely
with ârich reefâ..
>>>
>>> At the same time, dive operators should understand that living reefs are
a resource that underpins their business, and ideally would be doing
whatever they can to enhance the understanding of reefs among their clients.
A part of that is sustainable practice.
>>>
>>> And, yes, many scientists have a terrible tendency to âtalk downâ to
non-specialists, destroying the possibility of education in the process.
Keep doing what you are doing..
>>> Peter Sale
>>>
>>> From: Nicole L.. Crane [mailto:nicrane at cabrillo.edu]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:55 AM
>>> To: Peter Sale
>>> Cc: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Blue Alert
>>>
>>> I wanted to weigh in here. Peter has it right, but telling the dive
industry that will alienate many of them. People who want quantifiable
projections are generally looking for a way to hold off on their own
changes. âCurrent rate of declineâ is also not really quantifiable since
there is such regional and even much smaller spacial scale variability in
reef response and subsequent rate of decline. We are working on and about to
publish our work in Ulithi Atoll that documents Atoll scale variability in
reef types and associated decline related to human impacts. And this is an
atoll with NO diving tourism and just subsistence fishing. Some sites are
âpristine-ishâ while others are highly degraded.
>>>
>>> So, What we do in Ulithi is sit down with the resource users and explain
to them the science behind the changes in their reefs, and the probable
(difficult to quantify) influence on that decline of their activities. We
have found this to be incredibly effective. Rather than tell them whatâs
going on globally and why they should make changes, we arm them with
knowledge about their system, and discuss the likely outcomes of business as
usual. The decision about what to do about it is theirs. They have asked us
for advice though, and that is an opportunity to insert some possible
solutionsâ¦
>>>
>>> I donât know if this approach would go over well with the dive industry.
I was very involved with the dive industry for many years, and find local
operations often very open to this kind of dialog, and often hungry for
information. What I found them tired of is people (scientists?) telling then
what they should do - since they often felt they were not the problem. Once
they understand that every single person can start a âwoundâ on already
stressed reefs, and that âwoundâ can spread, they begin to see how every
person matters, and their role in passing that info on. Many of them donât
have any idea of the nature of what a coral animal is and how it functions
(as Iâm sure you know)..
>>>
>>> Iâm not even sure if Iâm addressing your original e-mail hereâ¦and Iâm
sure Iâm saying things you already know.. Somehow I think the âEducationâ
campaign sometimes goes wrong, since âEducationâ can seem derogatory (I
know, so let me tell). Knowledge is something shared, and both the scientist
and the dive operator have important knowledge to shareâ¦maybe if we
partnered in this way we would be more on the same page?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your good work
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Peter Sale > wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve, and List,
>>> Sounds like your dive industry colleagues are playing hard to get.
>>> Asking if there are any recent studies that contradict what appears to
be the prevailing consensus among marine biologists that coral reefs are
increasingly being threatened by land-based pollutants, over-fishing and
climate change is almost like asking if there are any papers that report
that the sky is not blue. There may be differing opinions on how big
'increasingly' is,but even there, I doubt there are any scientists who think
the human impacts on reefs are uniform across the globe. Are there specific
places that are not affected by each of these? Yes for pollution and
over-fishing, but no for climate change or acidification. So the literature
cannot help you much with this request.
>>>
>>> Are there quantitative studies of the economic value of reefs, and the
loss of value if they are degraded? Yes, there are. I do not have specific
references at hand,but others will surely suggest some. One difficulty you
will have convincing your colleagues, however, is that reefs are a shared
resource. There is no direct and immediate benefit for one operator to
modify practices to be environmentally sustainable, unless he/she is
operating in a location or business niche in which the clients will make
decisions based on evident greenness of competing operators. And there is
always the nasty reality that the majority of sport divers cannot tell the
difference between a rich reef and a dead one. If it has great topography,
and myriad fish swimming about it can yield a great dive experience.
>>>
>>> You may have to settle for building communication and collaboration in
marketing among the minority (?) of operators who actually get the fact that
the places they love are at risk if we do not all mend our ways. Hotels
advertise their environmental sustainability (not always honestly) as part
of their marketing; why shouldn't dive operators do the same?
>>>
>>> Peter Sale
>>> @PeterSale3
>>> www.petersalebooks.com
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov > on behalf of
coral-list-request at coral.aoml..noaa.gov >
>>> Sent: November 21, 2015 12:00 PM
>>> To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>> Subject: Coral-List Digest, Vol 87, Issue 19
>>>
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>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Blue Alert - Have You Seen Any Studies? (Steve Mussman)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:03:29 -0500 (EST)
>>> From: Steve Mussman >
>>> Subject: [Coral-List] Blue Alert - Have You Seen Any Studies?
>>> To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" >
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
<32681970.1448031810829.JavaMail.root at wamui-mosaic.atl.sa.earthlink...net>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> Dear Listers,
>>> I am trying to find any examples of well-performed, peer reviewed
scientific studies that relate to two specific areas of interest. One is
quite simple. Have there been any studies published that contradict what
appears to be the prevailing consensus among marine biologists that coral
reefs are increasingly being threatened by land-based pollutants,
over-fishing and climate change? It seems to be almost impossible to
quantify the exact degree to which there is a scientific consensus, so I
would like to know if there have been any papers published that seem to
challenge the theory. The second request is a bit more complicated. Are
there any studies out there that might apply to this concept? I'm looking
for projections that take into account the current rate of coral reef
decline and link that to corresponding expectations regarding economic
impacts that specify the diving and dive tourism industries. Something that
might answer the question of what are the likely costs (i!
> n t
>>> erms such as net present value, return on investment, consumer demand,
etc) of continuing to do business as usual i.e., continuing without
aggressively addressing the underlying threats. Any help or suggestions
would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, Steve Mussman
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral..aoml.noaa.gov
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>>> End of Coral-List Digest, Vol 87, Issue 19
>>> ******************************************
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
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>>>
>>> Nicole L. Crane
>>> Faculty, Cabrillo College
>>> Natural and Applied Sciences
>>> www.cabrillo.edu/~ncrane
>>> onepeopleonereef.ucsc.edu
>>>
>>> Senior Conservation Scientist
>>> Oceanic Society
>>> www.oceanicsociety.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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