[Coral-List] List politics free

Douglas Fenner douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
Wed Nov 16 21:40:07 EST 2016


I agree.  I have noticed that the press often refers to statements by
scientists as "scientists believe that....".  I just did a quick search on
"scientists believe coral reef" and got lots of hits.  Such as the first
few hits:

The Great Barrier Reef: a catastrophe laid bare | Environment | The ...
<https://www.google.as/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjtupan367QAhVFQSYKHcDACFQQFggbMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2016%2Fjun%2F07%2Fthe-great-barrier-reef-a-catastrophe-laid-bare&usg=AFQjCNFxQ-vUkS7DyMg260WaaIQSpS4bwA&sig2=Uy4re7GcCzWYvzUaSxulaQ>
https://www.theguardian.com   "Bleaching caused by climate change has killed
 almost a quarter of its coral this year and many scientists believe it
could be
 too late for the rest."

Coral Reef | Oceana
<https://www.google.as/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjtupan367QAhVFQSYKHcDACFQQFggiMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Foceana.org%2Fmarine-life%2Fmarine-science-and-ecosystems%2Fcoral-reef&usg=AFQjCNGa7VrEez8AXN-gljukMjpxknqcGA&sig2=YO5Y4SwUboWZQXQRH_OESw>
oceana.org/marine-life/marine-*science*-and-ecosystems/*coral*-*reef*
<https://www.google.as/search?q=scientists+believe+coral+reef&oq=scientists+believe+coral+reef&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l4j69i61.5441j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#>

   1.
   <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4MWPpdG4gZMJ:oceana.org/marine-life/marine-science-and-ecosystems/coral-reef+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=as>
   2.
   <https://www.google.as/search?q=related:oceana.org/marine-life/marine-science-and-ecosystems/coral-reef+scientists+believe+coral+reef&tbo=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtupan367QAhVFQSYKHcDACFQQHwgmMAE>


"Scientists believe that more than a ..."

Impacts of Climate Change on Coral Reefs and the Marine ...
<https://www.google.as/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjtupan367QAhVFQSYKHcDACFQQFghPMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Funchronicle.un.org%2Farticle%2Fimpacts-climate-change-coral-reefs-and-marine-environment&usg=AFQjCNHIFKMFsVcZj94dNmJFXvFSxuP57A&sig2=piLMaQNAkXWB95-6kSP0AA>
"However, in the scientific community, it is believed that this decline
predates the ..."
"










     I think this understates and misleads, because it implies that
scientists have their beliefs just like everybody else, it's just a belief
like everybody else's.  Science is a way of knowing, based on asking nature
to tell us what is real and what isn't.  The scientific method has been
vastly refined over the decades and centuries, and now is the most powerful
way of knowing, since it is the most firmly based in the reality of the
data from nature itself, not just human beliefs (but science can't be
applied to everything, other ways of knowing about other subjects are still
valid).  The media do the public a disservice (and many of us repeat it) by
talking about what "scientists believe" instead of what the facts and
empirical evidence force scientists to conclude (sometimes against their
beliefs and hypotheses).
   Cheers,  Doug

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Douglas Fenner <
douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree.  I have noticed that the press often refers to statements by
> scientists as "scientists believe that....".  I think this misleads,
> because it implies that scientists have their beliefs just like everybody
> else, it's just a belief like everybody else's.  Science is a way of
> knowing, based on asking nature to tell us what is real and what isn't.
> The scientific method has been vastly refined over the decades and
> centuries, and now is the most powerful way of knowing, since it is the
> most firmly based in the reality of the data from nature itself, not just
> human beliefs (but science can't be applied to everything, other ways of
> knowing about other subjects are still valid).  The media do the public a
> disservice (and many of us repeat it) by talking about what "scientists
> believe" instead of what the facts and empirical evidence force scientists
> to conclude (sometimes against their beliefs and hypotheses).
>    Cheers,  Doug
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 6:28 AM, Howard Lasker <hlasker at buffalo.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I have been a coral-list reader but not an active contributor since its
>> inception.  However, the times they are a changing and I'll jump onto
>> this thread.  It is my personal belief that the choices are to crawl
>> into a hole and hope everything will pass, move to another country, or
>> fight the good fight.
>>
>> I am still contemplating the first two but in the interim will address
>> the third.
>>
>> There is a lot to agonize about, but I hope everyone on this list can
>> agree that it is critical that we stand up to the pernicious, and
>> seemingly successful, effort to redefine science as an opinion. What one
>> does with the knowledge that science generates is very much a political
>> discussion but the conclusion that there has been and continues to be
>> anthropogenic changes to earth's climate is not an opinion.
>>
>> I do not have any expectation that we can change the actions of
>> individuals who knowingly distort the facts and misrepresent the process
>> of scientific inquiry, but we have an obligation to convince everyone
>> else that we are not just a different group of evangelists with our own
>> agenda.
>>
>> Teaching everyone that climate change is real and that we are the source
>> of the change is essential to any hope for a reasoned debate about what
>> we should do about climate change.
>>
>> Howard Lasker
>>
>> --
>> *****************************************************************
>>
>> Howard R. Lasker
>>
>>     Director, Graduate Program in Evolution, Ecology & Behavior
>>
>>     Professor, Department of Geology
>>
>>     Editor-in-Chief, Coral Reefs, Journal of the International Society
>> for Reef Studies
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Coral-List mailing list
>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>> http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Douglas Fenner
> Contractor for NOAA NMFS, and consultant
> "have regulator, will travel"
> PO Box 7390
> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA
>
> phone 1 684 622-7084
>
> Join the International Society for Reef Studies.  Membership includes a
> subscription to the journal Coral Reefs, and there are discounts for pdf
> subscriptions and developing countries.  Coral Reefs is the only journal
> that is ALL coral reef articles, and it has amazingly LOW prices compared
> to other journals.  Check it out!  www.fit.edu/isrs/
>
> "Belief in climate change is optional, participation is not."- Jim Beever..
>   "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts."-
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
>
> Countries reach landmark deal to limit global warming
> http://fortune.com/2016/10/16/global-warming-hfcs-deal/
> http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/10/how-key-number-
> new-deal-curb-refrigerating-chemicals-was-born?utm_
> campaign=news_daily_2016-10-28&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=940885
>
> Policy: hasten the end of dated fossil-fuel subsidies
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v538/n7624/full/
> 538171c.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20161013&spMailingID=52515861&
> spUserID=MjA1NTA3MjA0OQS2&spJobID=1022286029&spReportId=MTAyMjI4NjAyOQS2
>
> website:  http://independent.academia.edu/DouglasFenner
>
> blog: http://ocean.si.edu/blog/reefs-american-samoa-story-hope
>
>


-- 
Douglas Fenner
Contractor for NOAA NMFS, and consultant
"have regulator, will travel"
PO Box 7390
Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA

phone 1 684 622-7084

Join the International Society for Reef Studies.  Membership includes a
subscription to the journal Coral Reefs, and there are discounts for pdf
subscriptions and developing countries.  Coral Reefs is the only journal
that is ALL coral reef articles, and it has amazingly LOW prices compared
to other journals.  Check it out!  www.fit.edu/isrs/

"Belief in climate change is optional, participation is not."- Jim Beever.
  "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts."-
Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Countries reach landmark deal to limit global warming
http://fortune.com/2016/10/16/global-warming-hfcs-deal/
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/10/how-key-number-new-deal-curb-refrigerating-chemicals-was-born?utm_campaign=news_daily_2016-10-28&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=940885

Policy: hasten the end of dated fossil-fuel subsidies
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v538/n7624/full/538171c.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20161013&spMailingID=52515861&spUserID=MjA1NTA3MjA0OQS2&spJobID=1022286029&spReportId=MTAyMjI4NjAyOQS2

website:  http://independent.academia.edu/DouglasFenner

blog: http://ocean.si.edu/blog/reefs-american-samoa-story-hope


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