[Coral-List] the "expiry date" of science...

Robert Nowicki rnowicki at mote.org
Thu Aug 23 15:20:37 UTC 2018


Hello all,

These discussions remind me of a Bioscience paper I read in graduate school
titled "Ten Suggestions to Strengthen the Science of Ecology".  (PDF link
here: https://tinyurl.com/ycndf7mf).  I think at least some of those
suggestions reflect issues that are regularly discussed here on
Coral-List.  It's interesting that, 15 years later, we are still wrestling
with many of the issues listed in the paper.  I hope it's a useful one for
those who haven't already read it.


Dr. Rob Nowicki

Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Elizabeth Moore International Center for Coral Reef Research & Restoration
Mote Marine Laboratory
24244 Overseas Highway
Summerland Key, FL 33042

Office phone: (941)-504-4812


On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Risk, Michael <riskmj at mcmaster.ca> wrote:

> Hi Tom.
>
> At the start of my Indonesia project, I visited the library. It was sad,
> as Abigail has alluded to. So I had a brilliant idea!
> (I have decided to stop having those.)
>
> I canvassed my colleagues back in Canada, collected a huge bunch of
> donated books. Including a 20-year run of GCA, which will annoy some people
> whose libraries can't afford it...Amounted to a cubic metre of books.
> Weighed a ton, literally and figuratively.
>
> Shipped it off.
>
> Visited next year, checked out the library (that donation would have
> doubled their holdings at one shot.) No books. wtf?? Rooted around.
>
> Turns out a senior faculty member had appropriated the entire shipment for
> his library, on the basis that knowledge is power. There was a short sharp
> discussion and the books were released to the library.
>
> Things have changed a great deal, for the better...people at that
> institution now are well-read, way ahead of me.
>
> Mike
> ________________________________________
> From: Coral-List [coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov] on behalf of
> tomascik at novuscom.net [tomascik at novuscom.net]
> Sent: August 21, 2018 2:27 PM
> To: Abigail Moore
> Cc: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] the "expiry date" of science...
>
> Dear Abigale,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail with the enlightening information that I
> have to admit I was not aware of. It makes me wonder just how many
> coral workers have actually read Darwin's 1842 "The Structure and
> Distribution of Coral Reefs".
>
> Tomas
>
> Quoting Abigail Moore <abigail2105 at yahoo.com>:
>
> > Dear fellow Coral-listers
> > I just felt I really had to reply to Tomas regarding his reply to an
> > interesting thread...only top two pasted below to keep things short!
> >
> > Denis wrote: "Papers now tend to cite the "latest" paper on a
> > particular topic and ignore the "classics" - including the first to
> > describe a particular phenomenon or introduce an argument...". Then
> > Tomas wrote "The decline of citing early (pre-1990s) original works
> > has probably started with the Google search and access to the new
> > electronic journals" and "a lot of the early research was off line
> > and accessible only if we went to the library stacks with hard
> > volumes".
> >
> > For my colleagues and myself, this very marked trend towards a
> > shortened "shelf-life" of scienctific publications is not (or at
> > least only marginally) due to any lag in digitisation of older
> > papers; rather, it is a policy issue, at government and
> > institutional levels.
> >
> > In Indonesia there is a pervasive obsession with novelty, frequently
> > backed by rules that the majority (often a minimum percentage, for
> > example 80%) of papers cited must be less than 10 years old,
> > sometimes with a premium on the past five years. This applies in ,
> > thesis/dissertations, articles, proceedings, etc, as well as
> > proposals for research funding and often in academic homework.
> > In some cases this is really challenging, when a substantial
> > proportion (or in a few cases the only) published relevant or
> > foundational work was done more than 10 years ago. This often means
> > that the author is pressured to "cite the citers" rather than the
> > original "out-of-date" work.
> >
> > In 1996-1997 when studying for my Master's (based in the UK, with
> > research in Indonesia) I found many of my references through
> > travelling abroad and searching through physical libraries,
> > especially in Australia. I then had to ship back the photocopies.
> > Now the majority of these publications (and many like them) are
> > on-line, and still well worth reading (and refering to, i.e.
> > citing). But we have to weigh the professional risk of citing "older
> > papers" (including many published well after I wrote my Master's
> > Thesis), whatever their merits.
> >
> > I am curious to know if there are similar trends or constraints in
> > orther countries. I would also like to know what other listers think
> > about this concept of a sort of "sell-by-date" approach to science
> > and scientific publications.
> >
> > Abigail
> > Abigail M. MoorePhD Student - Doctoral Program in Fisheries Science
> > Universitas HasanuddinMakassar, Indonesia
> >
> > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 10:30:13 -0700
> > From: tomascik at novuscom.net
> > To: Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
> > Cc: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] SPAM R2: Re: The Four Principles of
> >     Ecological Restoration
> > Message-ID: <20180818103013.62903gmnrfvk0e5h at webmail.novusnow.ca>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> >     format="flowed"
> >
> >
> > Hi Dennis,
> >
> > My apology for the empty e-mail that I just sent out in reply to your
> > e-mail, I hit the wrong key. The decline of citing early (pre-1990s)
> > original works has probably started with the Google search and access
> > to the new electronic journals. It took a while before the journals
> > managed to put most of their material online and that may have
> > contributed to this decline, since a lot of the early research was off
> > line and accessible only if we went to the library stacks with hard
> > volumes.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > Quoting Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>:
> >
> >> It's been a looong time, but when I was starting out, there were two
> common
> >> practices that seem to have declined over the years for reasons I've
> never
> >> understood. The first relates to citations. Papers now tend to cite the
> >> "latest" paper on a particular topic and ignore the "classics" -
> including
> >> the first to describe a particular phenomenon or introduce an argumnt
> that
> >> we think we've come up with. I understand that we need to set the stage
> >> with the most recent thinking. But, as a result, we might forget (for
> >> example) that Conrad Neumann coined the term *Bioerosion *in the 70s and
> >> that the phenomenon was described for sponges in the 1800s. I miss the
> >> scholarship that allows us to understand the historical context of
> modern
> >> arguments and find myself too-often saying, "....read that 20 years
> ago".
> >>
> >> The second relates to "negative" results. I was taught that one of the
> key
> >> elements of any good Discussion was a careful consideration of what we
> >> might have missed or done wrong - and how our interpretations might be
> >> misdirected despite apparent statistical support. Pointing out possible
> or
> >> real mis-steps was the norm (including failed results).
> >>
> >> So, "good for you" Julian. It's not just avoiding repeated mistakes;
> it's
> >> good scholarship.
> >>
> >> Dennis
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
>
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