[Coral-List] coral reefs shifting away from the equator
dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu
Thu Jul 11 23:53:00 UTC 2019
Well said... and more diplomatically than George Carlin. But, remember that
the first reefs were stromatolites ("slime" that learned to calcify). They
are still with us... and were fundamentally important in driving the
addition of oxygen to the atmosphere that was a turning point leading to
our eventual evolution.
I agree that we should be worrying more about us - the question is what is
"fitness" in the battle for surviva. There are so many systems that we are
stressing that most of us may even be unaware of. Whether it's simply
overpopulation (or reproduction rates), too many poor people in the wrong
places creating local stresses, too many rich people creating too many
global stresses, climate change, species depletion (I'll stop here and just
remind everyone that the list would violate the length limits on the
listserve), the answer is "US" and we need another model for "fitness" than
the present one that focuses on consumption.
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 7:43 PM Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
> Agreed. "We need reefs more than reefs need us." In the sense that
> eventually, some sort of life will once again build reefs. Maybe a few
> corals that survive. Maybe a mollusc (oysters?). Maybe sponges or worms.
> Problem is, meantime, we're going to lose ecosystem services, coral reef
> ecosystems will become algae beds (here comes the slime!) and the surviving
> corals may be vastly less diverse than what we have now, which will take at
> least the length of time that the modern human species has existed or more
> to evolve diversity comparable to what we have now. So very long term,
> they'll be fine. But on the scale of the likely future existence of our
> species, they and thus we, will be far poorer for their loss. Even if we
> don't lose many species, we are sure to lose a huge amount of ecosystem
> services, maybe one of the largest being food for a few hundred million
> people living along coasts in the tropics.
> Cheers, Doug
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 11:30 AM Dennis Hubbard <
> dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu> wrote:
>> This also happened in the Cetaceous when super-molluscs (rudists) took
>> over and corals moved to the sub-tropics. The good news for reefs was that
>> a giant asteroid hit near Alacran and wiped everything out, including the
>> offending agents of corals' relegation to the suburbs.
>> But, the reefs came back to become the reef systems we are presently
>> mourning. Can we possibly raise the ante on this one and create a scenario
>> in which reefs won't come back? To paraphrase George Carlin in a way that
>> is suitable for the list-serve, "the planet will do fine; we're the ones on
>> the way out - like fleas on dogs". I'm not arguing that we shouldn't worry
>> about our impacts (hopefully we have more cognitive power than fleas).
>> However, we'll get ours in the end and reefs have survived worse - if
>> geologic history tells us anything.
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:48 PM Douglas Fenner via Coral-List <
>> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
>>> Coral reefs shifting away from equator, new study finds.
>>> Global biogeography of coral recruitment: tropical decline and
>>> Cheers, Doug
>>> Douglas Fenner
>>> Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
>>> NOAA Fisheries Service
>>> Pacific Islands Regional Office
>>> PO Box 7390
>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
>>> A call to climate action (Science editorial)
>>> New book "The Uninhabitable Earth" First sentence: "It is much, much
>>> than you think."
>>> Read first (short) chapter open access:
>>> Want a Green New Deal? Here's a better one.
>>> Coral-List mailing list
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>> Dennis Hubbard
>> Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
>> (440) 775-8346
>> * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
>> Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
> Douglas Fenner
> Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
> NOAA Fisheries Service
> Pacific Islands Regional Office
> PO Box 7390
> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799 USA
> A call to climate action (Science editorial)
> New book "The Uninhabitable Earth" First sentence: "It is much, much
> worse than you think."
> Read first (short) chapter open access:
> Want a Green New Deal? Here's a better one.
Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
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