[Coral-List] coral reefs shifting away from the equator

Douglas Fenner douglasfennertassi at gmail.com
Fri Jul 12 00:09:59 UTC 2019


Well said, couldn't agree more.

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 12:03 PM Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
wrote:

> Doug:
>
> Well said... and more diplomatically than George Carlin. But, remember
> that the first reefs were stromatolites ("slime" that learned to calcify).
> They are still with us... and were fundamentally important in driving the
> addition of oxygen to the atmosphere that was a turning point leading to
> our eventual evolution.
>
> I agree that we should be worrying more about us - the question is what is
> "fitness" in the battle for surviva. There are so many systems that we are
> stressing that most of us may even be unaware of. Whether it's simply
> overpopulation (or reproduction rates), too many poor people in the wrong
> places creating local stresses, too many rich people creating too many
> global stresses, climate change, species depletion (I'll stop here and just
> remind everyone that the list would violate the length limits on the
> listserve), the answer is "US" and we need another model for "fitness" than
> the present one that focuses on consumption.
>
> Denny
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 7:43 PM Douglas Fenner <
> douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed.  "We need reefs more than reefs need us."  In the sense that
>> eventually, some sort of life will once again build reefs.  Maybe a few
>> corals that survive.  Maybe a mollusc (oysters?).  Maybe sponges or worms.
>> Problem is, meantime, we're going to lose ecosystem services, coral reef
>> ecosystems will become algae beds (here comes the slime!) and the surviving
>> corals may be vastly less diverse than what we have now, which will take at
>> least the length of time that the modern human species has existed or more
>> to evolve diversity comparable to what we have now.  So very long term,
>> they'll be fine.  But on the scale of the likely future existence of our
>> species, they and thus we, will be far poorer for their loss.  Even if we
>> don't lose many species, we are sure to lose a huge amount of ecosystem
>> services, maybe one of the largest being food for a few hundred million
>> people living along coasts in the tropics.
>> Cheers, Doug
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 11:30 AM Dennis Hubbard <
>> dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> This also happened in the Cetaceous when super-molluscs (rudists) took
>>> over and corals moved to the sub-tropics. The good news for reefs was that
>>> a giant asteroid hit near Alacran and wiped everything out, including the
>>> offending agents of corals' relegation to the suburbs.
>>>
>>> But, the reefs came back to become the reef systems we are presently
>>> mourning. Can we possibly raise the ante on this one and create a scenario
>>> in which reefs won't come back? To paraphrase George Carlin in a way that
>>> is suitable for the list-serve, "the planet will do fine; we're the ones on
>>> the way out - like fleas on dogs". I'm not arguing that we shouldn't worry
>>> about our impacts (hopefully we have more cognitive power than fleas).
>>> However, we'll get ours in the end and reefs have survived worse - if
>>> geologic history tells us anything.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:48 PM Douglas Fenner via Coral-List <
>>> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Coral reefs shifting away from equator, new study finds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.washington.edu/news/2019/07/09/coral-reefs-shifting-away-from-equator-new-study-finds/?utm_source=UW+News+Subscribers&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=UW_Today&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTXpVeE4yTTRORFkzT1dZMyIsInQiOiJ2ZGdjS3h1Z0xqRG1QYm5Qajl4XC9QdUh4RmYxaGUzVjRZZ1g0NzJCZDhLVE9KM2NwelZHS3hyN1hXR1VDQ1NxY2xLVEhRZTJUY0hTaFZsTEZFWDM4aERYXC9HUU03c1p3dk1qTkFXd2l4emVpenZUR3pqa2t0c1phdWloRllPVkdVIn0%3D
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Open-access.
>>>>
>>>> Global biogeography of coral recruitment: tropical decline and
>>>> subtropical
>>>> increase.
>>>>
>>>>  https://www.int-res.com/articles/feature/m621p001.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Open-access
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Doug
>>>> --
>>>> Douglas Fenner
>>>> Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
>>>> NOAA Fisheries Service
>>>> Pacific Islands Regional Office
>>>> Honolulu
>>>> and:
>>>> Consultant
>>>> PO Box 7390
>>>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA
>>>>
>>>> A call to climate action  (Science editorial)
>>>>
>>>> https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6443/807?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2019-05-30&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=2840296
>>>>
>>>> New book "The Uninhabitable Earth"  First sentence: "It is much, much
>>>> worse
>>>> than you think."
>>>> Read first (short) chapter open access:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/read-a-chapter-from-the-uninhabitable-earth-a-dire-warning-on-climate-change
>>>>
>>>> Want a Green New Deal?  Here's a better one.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/want-a-green-new-deal-heres-a-better-one/2019/02/24/2d7e491c-36d2-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html?utm_term=.a3fc8337cbf8
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Coral-List mailing list
>>>> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
>>>> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dennis Hubbard
>>> Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
>>> (440) 775-8346
>>>
>>> * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
>>>  Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Douglas Fenner
>> Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
>> NOAA Fisheries Service
>> Pacific Islands Regional Office
>> Honolulu
>> and:
>> Consultant
>> PO Box 7390
>> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA
>>
>> A call to climate action  (Science editorial)
>>
>> https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6443/807?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2019-05-30&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=2840296
>>
>> New book "The Uninhabitable Earth"  First sentence: "It is much, much
>> worse than you think."
>> Read first (short) chapter open access:
>> https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/read-a-chapter-from-the-uninhabitable-earth-a-dire-warning-on-climate-change
>>
>> Want a Green New Deal?  Here's a better one.
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/want-a-green-new-deal-heres-a-better-one/2019/02/24/2d7e491c-36d2-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html?utm_term=.a3fc8337cbf8
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dennis Hubbard
> Chair, Dept of Geology-Oberlin College Oberlin OH 44074
> (440) 775-8346
>
> * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
>  Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
>


-- 
Douglas Fenner
Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
NOAA Fisheries Service
Pacific Islands Regional Office
Honolulu
and:
Consultant
PO Box 7390
Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA

A call to climate action  (Science editorial)
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6443/807?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2019-05-30&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=2840296

New book "The Uninhabitable Earth"  First sentence: "It is much, much worse
than you think."
Read first (short) chapter open access:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/read-a-chapter-from-the-uninhabitable-earth-a-dire-warning-on-climate-change

Want a Green New Deal?  Here's a better one.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/want-a-green-new-deal-heres-a-better-one/2019/02/24/2d7e491c-36d2-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html?utm_term=.a3fc8337cbf8


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