[Coral-List] carbon offsetting AND slowing down

Mon Jun 17 20:31:21 UTC 2019

      An additional problem with the report that ocean surface temperatures
have not risen in one spot in PNG is spatial, this is one tiny point on a
vastly larger globe.  This is why we call it "global warming" not "one tiny
point in PNG warming."  It's the same kind of thing as claiming that
because it is cold today where I live, there can't be global warming.
There is always great variation in weather, from one spot to another and
one time to another, and that's different from global warming and climate
change which is the average of the whole world changing over decades.  But
that's been a favorite argument by the deniers, it clearly has worked to
mislead many people.  Whatever works, propaganda, lies, etc.
      And thank you Mike, for that point about the massive funding by the
fossil fuel industry of the denier industry.  Of course, US$200 million is
pocket change for those companies, they get $20 billion of subsidies from
the US alone, which in turn is much less than their annual profits.  In
effect, the US taxpayers are funding the deniers, and given the tiny crumbs
of funding that coral reef conservation gets, that probably means the
deniers are funded about 100 TIMES as much as coral reef conservation.
David and Goliath indeed.  There certainly were loads of death threats to
climate scientists at one point.  Certainly the point of it is to
intimidate the climate scientists into shutting up.  No wonder we can't
solve any problems.
      Cheers, Doug

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 1:07 AM Karl Fellenius via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:

> Thank you Mike, for the clarification that there is no position on
> anonymity. Less rules are better in the context of free speech, which I
> don't refer to narrowly as only first amendment rights in recognition that
> there are many non-US members on this list. Though I echo that while
> anonymity might allow for expression of views on coral list that are
> currently being suppressed in other forums, the workplace, and society at
> large, it also undermines the one feature of coral list that is
> less-commonly found on other science-based lists - namely that views
> are to be referenced if at all possible, and especially if data is being
> used as evidence.
>
> Might I then suggest a compromise, that coral list allow anonymity but only
> if the views expressed are referenced in the same manner as signed posts?
> In
> this way, the post by Gene would only have been allowed if Gene had gone
> back to the anonymous writer and asked for supportive references before
> submitting the post to coral list. This way, the onus falls back on
> subscribers to ensure that their anonymous forwards are not frivolous.
>
> Can coral list agree on this?
>
> To the claimed point on that CO2 rise lags temp rise, I'd love to see that
> firmly and finally debunked or explained (beyond what already exists on
> websites such as climate skeptic, etc.) so that it doesn't keep cropping
> up - anonymously or not. The other claimed point about no upward trend in
> 10
> year SST data for PNG has no place in climate discussions, since the
> timeline of this 'noise' is too short. Presumably coral list subscribers
> could easily counter and reference such a claim with longer SST timelines
> elsewhere. But why bother, when the original claim was posted without
> references? This is my point, that we should strive to maintain a higher
> standard that what we see in the world 'outside the list.'
>
> Karl
>
> ======================
> B. Karl Fellenius, MRM
> Director
>
> B. K. Fellenius Consultants Inc.
> E-mail: Karl at Fellenius.net
> Skype: michka97
>
> Tel: +692.455-5552
> PO Box 3085
> Majuro 96960
> Republic of the Marshall Islands
>
> Tel: +1.778-426-0775
> Mob: +1.778-871-5957
> 2475 Rothesay Ave.
> Sidney, British Columbia
> V8L 2B9 Canada
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Jankulak - NOAA Affiliate via Coral-List
> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 4:57 AM
> To: Coral-List
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] carbon offsetting AND slowing down
>
> Since you ask for a moderator's explanation, I'm happy to add my $0.02
> worth.
>
> The main reason the post was allowed was because Coral-List has no rule
> against such things. What rules we have are listed on our information page,
> here:
>
> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
> Reading over that page again, I would have to say that the Coral-List
> position on anonymity is that we do not have a position on anonymity.
>
> Well, sort of. I mean, we do ask people to subscribe to the list before
> posting, to avoid write-only announcements by people who will never see the
> replies their message generates. In this case it is Gene who 'authored' the
> post in question, and he is presumably reading followups with great
> interest. From context one might make a guess that the anonymous writer is
> also reading the list. So the write-only thing didn't seem to be a factor
> here.
>
> If people feel strongly that this sort of thing shouldn't be allowed, I
> would encourage them to email the moderators' account at <
> coral-list-owner at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>. We're always happy to get feedback
> from the subscribers. If there's enough pushback we could conceivably add a
> new rule to cover this situation. I think in general, for an online
> community like ours, fewer rules is better. But we undoubtably need some
> rules, and we occasionally add new ones.
>
> I hope that answers the question!
>
> Mike J+, coral-list mod team
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:29 PM Karl Fellenius via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
>
> > I'm not a regular poster but I've been on coral list since the late 90s.
> > Never have I seen an anonymous posting on the list. In my view - no
> matter
> > the importance of the content, anonymous postings have no place on any
> > serious list and I would hope that our moderators do not allow such
> things
> > to continue going forward. Based on the vigorous debate seen on a number
> > of
> > topics on coral list that are always clear as to the sender, I don't see
> > why
> > 'bullied into silence' should somehow be seen as a excuse for anonymity.
> >
> > If the moderator can explain coral list's position on anonymity it would
> > be
> > appreciated. Some anonymity nested within a larger post might be o.k.,
> but
> > in this case it was anonymous in its entirety. I recognize its not always
> > an
> > easy distinction.
> >
> > Though please carry on the discussion.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > ======================
> > B. Karl Fellenius, MRM
> > Director
> >
> > B. K. Fellenius Consultants Inc.
> > E-mail: Karl at Fellenius.net
> > Skype: michka97
> >
> > Tel: +692.455-5552
> > PO Box 3085
> > Majuro 96960
> > Republic of the Marshall Islands
> >
> > Tel: +1.778-426-0775
> > Mob: +1.778-871-5957
> > 2475 Rothesay Ave.
> > Sidney, British Columbia
> > V8L 2B9 Canada
> >
> >
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-- 
Douglas Fenner
Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
NOAA Fisheries Service
Pacific Islands Regional Office
Honolulu
and:
Consultant
PO Box 7390
Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA

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