[Coral-List] carbon offsetting AND slowing down

Tue Jun 18 22:41:01 UTC 2019

Doug, 

it is attitudes like the one you expose below that makes skeptical scientists stay quiet. Scientists who have no funding from the industry and wish to have no funding from the industry, but they cannot get funding for their research because the climate change lobby is sucking up all the oxygen. It's like the Catholic Church and the heliocentric work view, the conclusion is already decided so any research that risks putting the conclusion in question is unwanted. 

It is NECESSARY to fund skeptics with REAL science money. 

Ulf Erlingsson

> On 2019-06-18, at 17:48 , Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>      I can't think offhand of the fossil fuel industry trying to block research (but maybe that is something I'm just unaware of).  The fossil fuel industry is trying to mislead the public and trying to stop any government action to fix the problem, and some in the US gov't appear to be trying to suppress information they don't like.  The fossil fuel industry has also been financing a legion of people to come up with all kinds of reasons why global warming and climate change aren't real and humans aren't causing it.  That denier industry is the one that has produced the 179 bogus arguments debunked on "skeptical science."  Yes, your points No. 1 and 3 are very much related, No. 1 is financing and egging on most of No. 3.  There IS, legitimate questioning, and that's fine.  There was a scientist who wasn't convinced, who was concerned about the "island heat effect" that cities heat the air around them, and that many of the temperature monitoring stations were around cities.  He investigated, more data was collected, and after quite a while, he was convinced that the earth's surface as a whole is indeed warming up.  That's real science, and it is good.  But the majority of it is not, it's all about coming up with bogus excuses to mislead people to protect giant profits of dirty fossil fuel industry.
>       There are parallels in other settled scientific issues.  For instance, there is a huge portion of the US population that thinks that there is no evolution, the world was created 6000 years ago, and Darwin was all wrong.  All the evidence is that those people are wrong.  On the other hand, there is lots of legitimate discussion about evolution.  There are other processes involved in evolution besides natural selection.  Darwin himself discovered sexual selection.  Genetic drift is an important aspect independent of selection.  There are theories like punctuated equilibrium and selfish genes and sociobiology.  There are even modern data that show a few things that follow Lamarkian evolution.
>       There is a vast difference between a huge industry-funded effort to protect their profits with disinformation propaganda campaigns, and legitimate discussion based on actual evidence.
>       Cheers,  Doug
> 
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:33 AM Ulf Erlingsson via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> wrote:
> Yes Steve, but this is not a two-sided debate, it is a three-sided debate.
> 
> 1. Industry that is trying to block the research
> 2. Researchers who are working with theories and data
> 3. Other researchers who are being critical for good reasons.
> 
> If you are conflagrating 1 and 3 you are making 1 a favor. 
> 
> Ulf Erlingsson
> 
> 
> 
> > On 2019-06-14, at 17:06 , Risk, Michael via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> wrote:
> > 
> > Some context as to who is David and who is Goliath:
> > 
> > "Every year, the world's five largest publicly owned oil and gas companies spend approximately $200 million on lobbying designed to control, delay or block binding climate-motivated policy." (Forbes, Mar 25/19)
> > 
> > -and this doesn't count the Dark Money from dark places. (No, not THERE, Steve-get your mind out of the gutter.) 
> > 
> > It's no mystery why action on this front is so difficult.
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Coral-List [coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>] on behalf of Steve Mussman via Coral-List [coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>]
> > Sent: June 14, 2019 3:38 PM
> > To: coral list
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] carbon offsetting AND slowing down
> > 
> > I have no problem with Gene’s post being allowed on list. To me it’s a first amendment issue. However, I do take issue with the fact that the post used an anonymous source to make a rather serious accusation about the veracity of the SST data analysis and projections compiled by NOAA - all without bothering to cite a reference to the data that the author claims refutes the warming trend. Such tactics should be condemned by all.
> > This egregious modus operandi is nothing new, but it certainly runs counter to the ideals generally adhered to throughout the scientific community. As for bullying, one has to be totally disconnected and/or somewhat confused not to realize that we are living in an era of unprecedented attacks on science and scientific integrity. The post in question clearly epitomizes this unfortunate state of affairs.
> > 
> > Steve Mussman
> > 
> >> 
> > 
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> 
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> 
> -- 
> Douglas Fenner
> Ocean Associates, Inc. Contractor
> NOAA Fisheries Service
> Pacific Islands Regional Office
> Honolulu
> and:
> Consultant
> PO Box 7390
> Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799  USA
> 
> A call to climate action  (Science editorial)
> https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6443/807?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2019-05-30&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=2840296 <https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6443/807?utm_campaign=toc_sci-mag_2019-05-30&et_rid=17045989&et_cid=2840296>
> 
> New book "The Uninhabitable Earth"  First sentence: "It is much, much worse than you think."
> Read first (short) chapter open access:  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/read-a-chapter-from-the-uninhabitable-earth-a-dire-warning-on-climate-change <https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/read-a-chapter-from-the-uninhabitable-earth-a-dire-warning-on-climate-change>
> 
> Want a Green New Deal?  Here's a better one.
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/want-a-green-new-deal-heres-a-better-one/2019/02/24/2d7e491c-36d2-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html?utm_term=.a3fc8337cbf8 <https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/want-a-green-new-deal-heres-a-better-one/2019/02/24/2d7e491c-36d2-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html?utm_term=.a3fc8337cbf8>
> 