[Coral-List] ICRS2020 and remote meetings

Osmar Luiz osmarjluiz at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 00:23:30 UTC 2019


It’s all about trade-offs Francesca. Eat less meat, get rid of plastics, use the car less are all justified actions that we all can do (and I do) without any tradeoff to the research we do. The problem with flights is the missed opportunies for meetings, conferences, workshops, field trips to people who potentially could come out with solutions to the problem… Its like pulling the blanket to cover your head and uncovering your feet.

Cheers
Osmar





> On 20 Sep 2019, at 12:54 am, frahome at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> Dear Osmar,
> Here we are not stating that changing the behavior of billions of people one by one is the solution.
> We are instead discussing if changing the behavior of well-educated concerned scientists might be useful to accelerate the urgent broad scale systemic adjustments you are calling for. 
> I admit that thinking that some scientists justify their unsustainable footprint on the bases that personal action are useless is quite frustrating. The line of thought "I fly cause the plane is flying anyway" and "I eat meat because the cow is already dead anyway" is for me unacceptable, in general, but especially when coming from a scientist.
> I think what is naive is to believe you can change corporate practices and political decisions without first a change in a substantial proportion of the population (critical mass). Putting for a moment aside the influence of corporations on governments, the (pseudo-democratic) world moves in the direction of acquired consensus.
> 
> Francesca
> 
> On Thursday, September 19, 2019, 01:37:50 AM GMT+2, Osmar Luiz <osmarjluiz at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Nohora,
> 
> I know that leading by example can change behaviours. It is indeed a fact. What isn’t a fact is that every single change in behaviour will be effective towards mitigating carbon emissions.
> 
> For the good and the bad, our Western society is based in a capitalist system where companies are very good in keeping their profit going up. Unfortunately in this case the change in consumer behaviour can be, and likely will be, offset by corporative practices, the best example here is the reduction in flight prices, but this is just one in a range of options.
> 
> I hope the future (if we will have one) prove me wrong. But I don’t think that naïve optimism is the answer. Changing the behavior of billions of people will take an amount of time we probably don’t have. Broad scale systemic adjustments has more potential to turn the tide in a more realistic timeframe, at least in my opinion.
> 
> Regards
> Osmar
> 
> 
> > On 19 Sep 2019, at 8:25 am, Nohora Galvis <icri.colombia at gmail.com <mailto:icri.colombia at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Dear Osmar,
> > 
> > It is a fact, that leading by example based on knowledge, may help to
> > change behaviors !!
> > 
> > Airlines may diminish the prices at the beginning when there are not
> > too many passangers and need to keep the same scheduled flights.
> > However, if they notice a trend, the basic offer/demand concept will
> > favor the reduction of flights. We have seen less flights in some
> > companies in Colombia during the low touristic season e.g Capurgana.
> > 
> > Due to "Structural Factors" composed of: population, distance,
> > alternative modes of transport, and system of established routes. The
> > influence of population size is evident, that is, the population
> > determines the size of the market and this influences transport demand
> > aerial. It is intended that the greater the population, the greater
> > the demand for air transport will be. Several authors have tried to
> > quantify this influence, but there has not been a single fact Exactly
> > (Fridström and Thune-Larsen, 1989; Fleming and Ghobrial, 1994;
> > Rendaraju and ThamizhArasan, 1992).
> > 
> > If you still need long distance transportation, look for
> > carbon-neutral flights
> > https://www.alternativeairlines.com/eco-friendly-airlines <https://www.alternativeairlines.com/eco-friendly-airlines>
> > 
> > 2019-09-16 6:23 GMT-05:00, Osmar Luiz via Coral-List
> > <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>>:
> >> A true basic offer/demand concept means that less people flying will just
> >> makes the flights cheaper. Encouraging more people mo travel nevertheless.
> >> Its not denying, I really wish that individual actions like these would
> >> work, but it isn’t realistic. At least not for flying
> >> 
> >> Cheers
> >> Osmar
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________
> >> Osmar J. Luiz, Ph.D.
> >> Post Doctoral Fellow - Quantitative Aquatic Ecology
> >> Research Institute for the Environment and Livelihoods
> >> Charles Darwin University
> >> Darwin NT, Australia
> >> 
> >> T: +61 8 8946 6684
> >> M: 0420 817 392
> >> Publications list: http://publicationslist.org/osmar.luiz <http://publicationslist.org/osmar.luiz>
> >> https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=_ArEYYMAAAAJ&hl=en&cstart=0&pagesize=20 <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=_ArEYYMAAAAJ&hl=en&cstart=0&pagesize=20>
> >> E: osmar.luizjunior at cdu.edu.au <mailto:osmar.luizjunior at cdu.edu.au>
> >> W: cdu.edu.au
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On 16 Sep 2019, at 7:18 am, frahome--- via Coral-List
> >>> <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> It's amazing to see scientists being affected by the same sort of denial
> >>> as politicians when it comes to take personal actions.No, flights won't
> >>> continue as scheduled if reef scientists and all other people concerned
> >>> about the future of our reefs/planet/society will decide to reduce their
> >>> flying. It's basic offer/demand concept. This applies to all other
> >>> impacting activities and aspects of our lifestyle. And yes being
> >>> sustainable and walking the talk might also mean missing to dive in
> >>> Indonesia if that doesn't fit in our per capita emission budget (0.6t/y
> >>> according to a previous post on this thread). There are many other amazing
> >>> things in life with lower footprints, including trying to live a
> >>> sustainable lifestyle and motivating others to do so. When we ask for
> >>> "system change" what are we asking for? Some measure that will allow us to
> >>> continue our business as usual while emissions and impacts are magically
> >>> reduced?Asking to have a "system change" without taking personal actions
> >>> is like stating that we are not willing to do what needs to be done to be
> >>> sustainable until someone makes it compulsory for us (in this case system
> >>> change should tax so much air travel that we won't be able to afford it).
> >>> I am sure that as well-educated, concerned scientists we could do better
> >>> than the average Joe.Wouldn't be better to ask system change from the
> >>> position where we already embrace that change and ask to make it
> >>> compulsory for those that have not embraced it yet?It seems we say we want
> >>> to save the reefs but then we say we are not willing to bring our
> >>> footprint down to what would make it possible.
> >>> Francesca
> >>> 
> >>>  On Sunday, September 15, 2019, 04:35:39 PM GMT+2, Gregory Boland via
> >>> Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Great point Peter.  Just back on list with personal email after a year in
> >>> retirement. As an over-the-hill "sometimes" coral reef scientist, we
> >>> struggled constantly relating the value of networking and face-to-face
> >>> science conference meetings to management my entire 20-year career at
> >>> MMS/BOEM.  Many requests for travel were granted, but not nearly enough to
> >>> keep scientists in touch with the cutting-edge and fully inspire future
> >>> research needs.  I have not noticed a mention of the elephant in the room:
> >>> are folks talking about a carbon reduction of one less passenger on an
> >>> Airbus 330 or whatever flying RT to the conference being measurable? Would
> >>> 100 less passengers make a difference? Will all flights continue as
> >>> scheduled regardless of how many coral reef scientists decide to watch
> >>> presentations on a computer?  Great heart-felt philosophy, but.. just
> >>> saying... (take care of your feet, the world needs them).
> >>> 
> >>> Greg Boland
> >>> retired Biological Oceanographer
> >>> 
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Coral-List <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> on behalf of
> >>> Peter Sale via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:50 PM
> >>> To: Grottoli, Andrea <grottoli.1 at osu.edu <mailto:grottoli.1 at osu.edu>>; coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> >>> <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov <mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>>
> >>> Subject: [Coral-List] ICRS2020 and remote meetings
> >>> 
> >>> Well spoken Andrea, and congratulations to the organizing committee to
> >>> have thought carefully about how to green the ICRS meetings.  Science
> >>> could shoot itself in the foot if it were to address climate change by
> >>> reducing opportunities for face-to-face interaction at conferences.  Coral
> >>> reef scientists should all be trying to walk the walk on climate change,
> >>> but there are many ways of doing this - avoiding our one global
> >>> quadrennial meeting seems an unwise solution to the problem.  That said,
> >>> as an over-the-hill reef scientist I am not planning to travel to Bremen -
> >>> I wish those who do, the best possible meeting, and the invigoration of
> >>> research ideas such a meeting can provoke.  Those of us who attended the
> >>> second ICRS on board the Marco Polo never forgot that experience, and I
> >>> can think of a number of subsequent ICRS meetings that were equally worth
> >>> travelling to.
> >>> 
> >>> Peter Sale
> >>> University of Windsor
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list <https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list <https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list>
> >>> 
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> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
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> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Cordial saludo,
> > 
> > Nohora Galvis
> > 
> > Directora Observatorio Pro Arrecifes
> > Fundación ICRI Colombia
> > Coordinadora Red Internacional de Observadores Voluntarios del Arrecife
> > 
> > Facebook.com/ICRI.COLOMBIA
> > Twitter @ArrecifesCoral e @ICRIcolombia



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