[Coral-List] Source for "coral occupy <1% of the seafloor but house more than 25% of species"

Sat Dec 12 22:27:24 UTC 2020

Dear All,

Yes, it turned out there are serious concerns about the reliability of the
Allen Coral Atlas.

In the Allen atlas there are blatant inaccuracies.  For example, in Golfo
de Guacanayabo, SE Cuba, an entyre coral reef system is missing.  This is
inexplicable because it is a case of reticulate coral reef system well
documented by satellite image two decades ago in "World Atlas of Coral
Reefs".  Even more unexplainable is the appearance of coral reefs where
they do not exist.

Furthermore, the provided bibliography and information to fix this
wrongdoing offered to the promoter of the Allen Coral Atlas in this forum
were accepted with promises, however did not bring any change.

Cheers,

Vassil

Vassil Zlatarski
D.Sc. (Biology), Ph.D. (Geology)

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 1:31 PM Douglas Fenner via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:

> The Allen Atlas had huge errors for American Samoa.  Showed coral in 200
> feet of water in the harbor where visibility is usually 10-20 feet, showed
> a muddy area to be rock, missed the largest patch of mangroves.  Their
> solution has been to ignore it, or hand change the areas that were wrong.
> And deny that their software was making lots of mistakes.  I have to
> presume all their results are unreliable until demonstrated otherwise.
> Technology people think their techno stuff is infallible.  Apparently
> bamboozling the big donor into believing they are doing wonders is more
> important that actually getting things right.   Cheers, Doug
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:01 AM Judith Lang <jlang at riposi.net> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much Hanny for this “interim update.”
> >
> > Have to add that it will be difficult to calculate the surface of the
> > world’s reef more accurately with the classification approach currently
> > employed by the Allen Atlas team if our limited experience last winter (I
> > think it was) with the Jamaican draft prior to its release is any guide.
> >
> > Judy Lang
> > AGRRA Scientific Coordinator
> >
> > On 11 Dec 2020, at 08:40, Denis Allemand <allemand at centrescientifique.mc
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Dear Hanny
> >
> > Many thanks for this update. It would be interesting to refine the
> surface
> > of the world's reefs using more modern techniques…
> > Best regards
> > Denis
> >
> > Professeur Denis Allemand
> > Directeur Scientifique / Scientific Director
> > Centre Scientifique de Monaco
> > 8 Quai Antoine Ier
> > MC 98000 Monaco
> > Principauté de Monaco
> >
> > Tél. : +377 97 77 44 50
> > Standard : +377 97 77 44 00
> > allemand at centrescientifique.mc
> > www.centrescientifique.mc
> >
> > <CSM_Mail.jpg>
> >
> >
> > Le 11 déc. 2020 à 04:25, Hanny Rivera <hrivera28 at gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > Hi all!
> >
> > A while back, I had written asking for help tracking down the source for
> > this statement. Thank you to all who responded and helped! There were a
> > number of folks who also asked me to let them know what I found. Sorry
> for
> > the long delay! A recent twitter post reminded me I hadn't followed up.
> >
> > Anyways: The original reference (at least the most original that I could
> > find) is McAllister 1991. I had to do a lot of digging to find the actual
> > paper, though I finally came across it here:
> > https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ptid=uc1.31822009136755&view=1up&seq=22
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >
> >
> > As you might see, it's not entirely clear where the numbers come from
> > though.
> >
> > Dan Barshis
> > had pointed me to Smith 1978 (https://www.nature.com/articles/273225a0
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >
> > ) as a more viable source for the area estimation (though it's a bit
> > outdated) and Fisher et al 2015 (
> > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982214016236
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >)
> > as a reference for species richness on reefs.
> >
> > A more recent area estimate is Spalding et al. 2001 (
> > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308597X17300635
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >)
> > which was pointed out to me by Dennis Allemand
> >
> > Dennis Allemand also has several other references for species #s that
> live
> > on reefs in his paper (
> >
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352485518305978?via%3Dihub
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >)
> > on page 2.
> >
> > Thanks again all! Hope this is helpful for folks going forward.
> >
> > Best, Hanny
> >
> > --
> > Hanny E. Rivera, Ph.D.
> > Postdoctoral Associate and Lecturer
> > Boston University, Biology Department
> > Davies Marine Population Genomics Lab
> > https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannyrivera
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >
> > http://sites.bu.edu/davieslab/members/
> > <
> https://mib1.mailinblack.com/securelink/?key=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
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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