[Coral-List] Combating the Climate Crisis

Fri Mar 13 15:16:52 UTC 2020

Matt:

The issue of affordability is not exclusive to the ICRS.  There are lots of meetings I can't afford to go to, including the past 2 ICRS meetings in Australia and Hawaii.  The issue of using remote technology sounds good, but at meetings I have been to (even small ones) where it's been attempted have not been great experiences.  The technology works for small groups much of the time but goes downhill quickly as more connections are added. Live streaming works better but is not interactive (e.g. TV and the light).  People have unrealistic expectations of what technology can handle. ICRS can at best use technology that is widely available but doesn't have the expertise or funding to come up with a way to get everyone around worldwide, including remote places with iffy internet access, into a gigantic chat room.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Matt Nolan <mpnolan at lbl.gov>
Date: 3/12/20 9:40 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Alina Szmant <alina at cisme-instruments.com>
Cc: William Precht <william.precht at gmail.com>, Chelsie Counsell <chelsiew12 at gmail.com>, coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Combating the Climate Crisis

I have the utmost respect for coral scientist and ICRS.

Having never attended, I assume they do a nice job, as it seems more scientists would like to participate.

I tried not to assume any intentions on their part. I assume they make decisions for the good of their organization as they should.

For instance, the cost to run the conference is the cost and that implies a price they must charge. In another running post its mentioned fees fall way short of the cost of the conference.

I'm not saying they have the intention to exclude anyone.

 I'm saying its not inclusive as a consequence of the high cost, self-exclusion do to personal travel making decisions some make  and the decision not to embrace tele-conferencing methodologies.   Why the ICRS doesn't go there with respect to tele-conferencing methodologies? I don't know. I have no data. I could imagine that the size of the conference as is is enough of a challenge for any scientific organization as is.  That it may further increase the cost.

Having a distributed conference may have benefits in this regard as the regional hosts would be taking some burden off the organizers at the main site.

I'm all for group gatherings.  Human beings need connectivity to other to develop communal goals.

I say I don't think ICRS has any intention to exclude anyone.

That said the current model clearly doesn't allow inclusion of all that want to be a part of the meeting.

I think the presence of a competing model would have the benefit of not excluding so many who would like to participate,
develop the expertise of doing a tele-conference within the coral reef community of scientists, managers, policy makers, and conservationists,
help the current model evolve into something even better than it is now.

I will say, I think a regional model will increase participation enough eventually, that if only small % of new participants go the command center site lets call it assuming the two models merge, eventually, more flights than ever to the main site, just from participants saying once in my life I want to be at the center of it all.

My sincere hope is that the pandemic will subside, (medical disease modellers and statisticians here in the US say its not),
the thousands of scientists hoping to attend ICRS meeting will get to attend,
and that  coral reef community of scientists, managers, policy makers, and conservationists
will come up with solutions, bond in a common cause, and are enlightened in thier pursuit in the science of corals and reefs.
 The pandemic should help  clarify that the world is changing to  a whole new part of the population that wasn't actively engaged in the discussion or even willing to listen.  Maybe now enough people are ready to listen to the message.  And many will be unemployed and most everyone with not be able to engage in the activities that use up their time normally.  So many thought cycles available to ponder their future and the future of the planet.

That said it would be nice to see a parallel effort that gives the excluded (for whatever reason) the opportunity to participate in a similar experience. It would be really cool if it was planned during the school year and in advance enough, that colleges/Unis could use it as part of the courses they are offering.

I have no data to support any ill intent by ICRS members or committee.  I would be shocked if someone indicated there was any.  I wouldn't even believe it if mtuplie people told me there was.

Whats the answer/solution?

scientist: well that depends

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:29 PM Alina Szmant <alina at cisme-instruments.com<mailto:alina at cisme-instruments.com>> wrote:
Wow, long post. And I think you are off target.  I don't think the ICRS organizing committee has any of the warped intentions you attribute to them.

We are still 3.5 months away from the meeting,  and I think that like many organizations and events,  they are Waitress to see what happens next before making a decision to cancel the meeting.  I have airline tickets already and have passed for registration as I am sure is true for many other researchers who plan to attend.  The organizers will have to deal with all of the economic repercussions of canceling if they decide to do that.

I believe that they are all attentive to the news and instructions from WHO and other authorities,  and will do the right thing one it is clear what the right thing is.

Alina Szmant

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Matt Nolan via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>>
Date: 3/12/20 7:33 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: William Precht <william.precht at gmail.com<mailto:william.precht at gmail.com>>
Cc: Chelsie Counsell <chelsiew12 at gmail.com<mailto:chelsiew12 at gmail.com>>, coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>>
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Combating the Climate Crisis

I'm perceiving a perception that "we" all can't  come together as one coral
reef community of scientists, managers, policy makers, and
conservationists  NOW and in recent  past years,  due to the $ cost. And
now  some people have inertia against joining due to the harm to the
environment from the consequences of getting there.  And somehow I feel a
certain % of us doesn't get that, and probably won't eve just becasue they
are who they are.  And now with the uncertainty of air travel as a mode of
transportation, and the immediate health risk  to the population as a
whole  which WHO scientists now classify as a pandemic, travelling to
distant conference is a bonafide behavior detrimental to society.

I also have the perception that ICRS has no desire to implement  now
standard modern contrivances as tele-conferencing.  Its their conference,
their decisions to make but I would think anybody of reason intelligence
would be wondering wtf, how can they ignore the ability to reach out to
thousands more in this urgent time of need when the battle for the
environmental future for the planet may have already have been lost. I
would have to conclude, they are just choosing to keep it small and
specific to their select scientific interest which is their prerogative.

Due the funding sources coming from, governments, government being keenly
influenced by business interests, an ostrich head in the sand behavior by
such economic influencers with issues related to the survival of coral
biomes, ICRS, maybe decided smaller is better. I assume less government
funding means less coral scientist , right? Human nature it what it is, if
you have the power there are ways to eliminate having to listen to what you
don't want to hear. I don't have the knowledge to understand the trade-offs
there, but can see that its reasonable that maybe its a correct decision
for that small group.

Any  economic scientist can share with you the benefits of competition.

I'm hoping only to highlight some issues. I sense people waiting  for
something to happen that ought to as is just seems like common sense an
inevitable, so no reason to put time/effort into an alternative. But, sort
of feel like something else is at play, and highlighting, hey this has't
and just isn't going to happen, time for someone to take on some
responsibilty to make some alternative happen. Time is of the essense, too
much at stake.

Now that streaming/tele-conferencing is taken for granted.

>So instead of coming together as one coral reef community of scientists,
managers, policy makers, and conservationists we should compete with each
other’s interests - sounds counter intuitive and counterproductive to me.

I'm saying at this time its apropos to redefine "coming together".   ICRS
appears to be unwilling to make that change. Thus excluding and causeing
the self-exclusion of many.

I ideas espoused and conversed probably the same.

The competion I see is which hotels/airlines get the $ of the coral
scientists.  Someones getting fees to run the organizations involved to.
And for a small set of people at the top of the organisations, who gets to
feel like they are in a postion of power, which I don't care about.

Although, a regional strategy possibly aids in developemnt of some local
leadership.

Maybe competition hurts the ICRS the first year and hurts it good. They
change or don't. Their role they want to play clarified for all.  The
competition, once it exists, can decide how to proceed. Once they have a
viable alternative established. Tradeoffs of what roles are going forward,
is effort expended to make it all happen worth the expense of $ and time,
get made, life goes on.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:26 AM William Precht <william.precht at gmail.com<mailto:william.precht at gmail.com>>
wrote:

> So instead of coming together as one coral reef community of scientists,
> managers, policy makers, and conservationists we should compete with each
> other’s interests - sounds counter intuitive and counterproductive to me.
>
> BP
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Matt Nolan via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> wrote:
>
>> Here is a potential solution.
>>
>> Set up a competing conference that covers the exact same topics at the
>> exact same time as the ICRS conference.
>>
>> Map out the potential attendees.
>>
>> Determine a set of regional locations where one set of the conference
>> topics will be streamed from and made available by video conferencing.
>>
>> Organize the locations so one just has several consecutive marathon days
>> of
>> sessions.
>>
>> if you have two consecutive 6 or 8 hours sessions in one day. Two days in
>> a
>> row. Three days at most.
>>
>> You have deincentivised anyone making a long trip for one maybe two night
>> overnight stay at some distant location.
>>
>> Do some analytics to make sure you didn't increase # number of shorter
>> flights as you may have more attendees.
>>
>> Really compete on price the first year.   Start with some lower fixed cost
>> per attendee to start.  Assume a fixed amount of dollars to be taken from
>> off-site attendees.  Offer rebates to off-site attendees if when then
>> fixed
>> dollar amount desired is achieved  rebate/kickback = surplus / # off-site
>> subscriptions.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 10:16 AM Chelsie Counsell via Coral-List <
>> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>> wrote:
>>
>> > It is crazy that we've been talking about increasing remote access to
>> coral
>> > reef research meetings for at least 20 years - kudos to Mark Spalding
>> for
>> > making this part of the conversation then and reminding us all now. A
>> small
>> > team of us has been working to set up globally interconnected local
>> > meetings
>> > for Coral Reef Week this July. Check out our website, coralreefweek.org<http://coralreefweek.org>
>> to
>> > find a meeting near you or to get in touch with us about organizing a
>> > meeting in your location.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Also, can we please stop fighting about what path is the best for
>> combating
>> > the climate crisis? Because we didn't take action decades ago when
>> climate
>> > scientists were presenting the dangers of greenhouse gas emissions to
>> > congress, we are now in an alarming position of needing unprecedented
>> > societal change. For the future of this planet and everything on it, we
>> > need to do everything we can, as much as we can.
>> >
>> >
>> > I agree with Luis that we should vote and do all we can to encourage
>> > regulatory change. We should also eat vegan diets, bike to work /
>> carpool /
>> > use public transit, and work to not be the continuous consumers of
>> > manufactured products that the capitalistic market encourages us to be.
>> We
>> > should also fly less. The 3% of emissions number is a really ridiculous
>> way
>> > to justify our addiction to air travel since a very small proportion of
>> the
>> > global population ever gets on a plane, with an even smaller proportion
>> > responsible for multiple long distance flights each year. The 3%
>> disregards
>> > the transportation used to get to / from the airport and the massive
>> > infrastructure of airports. It does not include the water vapor
>> emissions
>> > or the altitude at which the engine pollutants are directly placed into
>> the
>> > atmosphere. Air traffic currently accounts for three times more
>> emissions
>> > than the total emissions of a country like France, and it is projected
>> to
>> > double by 2030. Minute per minute, air travel is the fastest way for an
>> > individual to contribute massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. For
>> > many of our personal carbon emission footprints, flying makes up a much
>> > larger percentage than 3% and should not be ignored as an option to cut
>> our
>> > personal contributions to the climate crisis. Learn more at
>> > https://noflyclimatesci.org/ - check out their Resources page for lots
>> of
>> > great sources.
>> >
>> > ~ ~ ><> ~ ~ ~ ><> ~ ~
>> > Chelsie Counsell, Ph.D.
>> > Quantitative Community Ecologist
>> > Hawai'i Institute of Marine Biology
>> > chelsiew12 at gmail.com<mailto:chelsiew12 at gmail.com>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Coral-List mailing list
>> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov<mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
>> > https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> --
> William F. Precht
>
>  “You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice
> you have”
>
> Bob Marley
>
>
>
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