[Coral-List] Dendrogyra

Fri Jun 4 19:15:52 UTC 2021

   I've been saying for years that while the climate change deniers lost
the scientific argument, they have (at least in the US) won the political
argument that we shouldn't take action to stop global warming (because it
will cost money and the fossil fuel industry would be hurt, awww, those
poor little starving suffering wealthy investors, aww).  They won that
argument long enough to delay us from taking action, and now while we can
avoid the worst of what would happen if we do nothing, it appears
inevitable that we are going to go over the cliff and coral reefs will be
heavily damaged.  And we're now squabbling over what we should do.  I can
see the wisdom of having a Plan B to deal with what is now inevitable.  We
DO need to deal with the reality of what reefs are going to be like.  We've
just seen an excellent example of the future for coral reefs in the videos
that Bruce Carlson posted a link to, taken in Fiji.  Pay close attention to
the last video, that's what the world's coral reefs are mostly going to
look like, somewhere between that and the videos that Joe Pawlik has posted
of Florida.  Look closely you might be able to see a live coral or two.
Let's celebrate, there are a few left alive!!  People say that coral reefs
aren't going to be the same.  You can say that again.  "Aren't going to be
the same" seems to be a euphemism for "dead as a doornail."
      If we are going to have a Plan B, and I certainly think we should, we
also better have a Plan  A, which is to stop the far worse situation we
will be in if we don't reduce emissions drastically.  Which will include
huge numbers of people dying from the heat.
     But back to Plan B.  How about us putting everything that will happen
in Plan B, and how we're going to deal with it????  So the 3 largest
ecosystem services coral reefs provide world wide are often said to be
food, shoreline protection, and tourism.  Well, tourism is easy enough,
almost all divers want to see fish, particularly big fish, most of all.
Corals are only the background scenery for them.  Many can't tell the
difference between corals and algae, many can't remember when there were
decent coral communities, especially in Florida and the Caribbean.  So
that's no problem, except if we really move away from flying all over just
for pleasure, that would hurt the many low income countries that depend on
dive tourism for their economies.  Too bad for them.
      OK, how about shoreline protection?  Well, sea level rise is still
pretty slow by human lifetime standards, just 4 mm or so a year.  A few
places will have to do something about shoreline erosion, a few places will
have high tides go a little farther than they used to, and a few places
like New Orleans and New York will have real storm disasters as sea water
gets into the cities and causes billions of dollars worth of damage.  But
most people won't see any real problems for a long time.
      And then there is food.  We all have plenty of food, don't we??  I'm
not starving, are you?  Oh, then there is the small matter of somewhere
around maybe 200 million people who absolutely depend on coral reef fish
for food for survival.  Fishermen and their families, along the coasts of
low income countries in the tropics, countries like Indonesia with 230
million people and the Philippines with 100 million people, many of whom
live along the coast line, and many of those fishermen, if they don't catch
fish one day, their family may go hungry that night.  When the corals are
almost completely dead, the reefs won't be producing so much fish, will
they, after the dead coral skeletons collapse??  So what are those people
going to do?  Their governments don't have hundreds of millions of dollars
just sitting around that they don't know what to do with.  Are the rich
countries going to step up to support 200 million malnourished and starving
people??  Or are we going to just ignore it, that's far away, the other
side of the world??  I've noticed that in disasters, rich countries often
pledge support, but often they don't actually donate all that they pledge.
How many people were displaced by the war in Syria?  A few million??  No
problem for Europe??  How are we going to deal with 200 million, plus or
minus several 10's of millions of people who are on starvation diets and
desperate???  Or do we rich country people just basically not care??  Not
our problem??  I remind that the US has over history, emitted twice as much
CO2 as any other country on the planet.  Do we have responsibility here?
I'd say we do.  (And I am much encouraged by the efforts of the current
administration on climate.  I think we need to ardently support that kind
of action and leadership, and get the job done.)
       Please tell me what our Plan B is for food security for fisher
families whose survival depends on coral reef fish.  Frankly, Florida is
filthy rich.  The place is crawling with pleasure motor boats, probably 10
speed boats for every coral left alive in Florida (I just made that up out
of thin air, but if it isn't literally true now, it soon will be the way
things are going).  Not a single one of those boats is required for the
survival of the owner.
       Meantime, shouldn't we still be screaming our heads off that the
reefs are dying and we darn well better fix the most important cause of
that???  You know, Plan A.
       Cheers, Doug

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 4:41 AM Steve Mussman via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:

>
>
> Steve,
>
> Mine was just a visceral reaction to the proposition that the tragedy
> befalling coral reefs could be characterized as an opportunity by some,
> financial or otherwise was how it was put. That aside, how can we ever
> expect long term solutions to materialize if they are not being universally
> prioritized within the coral science community? I mean, I keep hearing what
> has become a slogan on this list “We all know what we must do . . . It’s
> time to speak with one voice”, but apparently there is something keeping
> that one voice in check. Perhaps your analysis explains it best. After all,
> we should acknowledge that these undercurrents exist. I think the bottom
> line is that the coral science community has become somewhat polarized -
> encompassing more than one vision of “success”.
>
> Steve Mussman
>
> On 6/2/21, 2:40 PM, Steve Gittings - NOAA Federal <steve.gittings at noaa.gov>
> wrote:
>
> I didn't say anything about giving up. I'm suggesting that some places may
> have to face a near-term reality that none of us would wish on anyone.
> Failure of ecosystem services. It doesn't help them in the short term if we
> overlook that possibility. While long-term solutions are obviously needed
> soon, I'm suggesting we also need to prepare for significant changes on
> much shorter time frames.
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 1:06 PM Steve Mussman via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)>
> wrote:
>
> . . . “I think it would help to consider a world where failure actually IS
> an option”.
>
> I’m still trying to wrap my head around this concept.
>
> How can we possibly continue to envision or even maintain any hope for
> implementing the changes needed to save coral reefs from the continued
> downward spiral if coral scientists have given up and moved on to “instead
> recognize that with impending disaster comes opportunity, whether financial
> or otherwise”.
>
> So, what does this say about the prospects of “saving” what remains of the
> world’s coral reefs?
>
> Oh, right, that’s where recognizing opportunity comes into play.
>
> Steve
>
> On 5/31/21, 12:46 PM, Steve Gittings - NOAA Federal via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)>
> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> We each have opinions and concerns about political will and the likelihood
>
> of seeing changes on the scale needed to save reefs from continued loss.
>
> But while people valiantly try to turn things around using existing
>
> socio-political approaches, I think it would help to consider a world where
>
> failure actually IS an option.
>
> Let's objectively imagine a collective future when people and economies
>
> that now depend on reefs have none. The science community knows the
>
> resource and ecosystem service consequences, and I think we would agree
>
> that it is our role to make sure those are clearly communicated - as you
>
> say, "speak with one voice." But to make progress with those whose work
>
> has changed the world during past crises, including corporations,
>
> philanthropists, and yes, politicians, we need to resist ascribing blame
>
> (that's not directed at your message, which did not do that). Few are
>
> motivated by being blamed. Problem-solvers - even those that may have some
>
> culpability - instead recognize that with impending disaster comes
>
> opportunity, whether financial or otherwise. I believe our priority as
>
> scientists should be to empower them with awareness, constructive
>
> information, and advice.
>
> As reefs disappear, new food production, distribution, and financing
>
> systems will be needed to support the importation of protein, construction
>
> of coastal and offshore aquaculture facilities and artificial reefs, and
>
> perhaps expansion and diversification of terrestrial agriculture. New
>
> infrastructure will be needed to deal with nuisance flooding,
>
> increased coastal erosion, transportation safety, utilities, energy
>
> production, and disaster response. And training will have to be supported
>
> and promoted to prepare people with new skills that synchronize with the
>
> transition. We need corporate and government leaders and philanthropists
>
> to recognize that these needs are not only opportunities that could bolster
>
> tourism-based economies, but alternatively, could support the transition
>
> away from them. Effective diversification planning could accomplish both.
>
> Few coral reef scientists work directly in these areas, but we know how we
>
> got here and how ecosystems might respond to many of the changes. So,
>
> while none of us prefer a future without coral reefs, and while we continue
>
> to fight for other solutions, we have a responsibility to consider our role
>
> if we fail to protect or restore coral reefs.
>
> Steve
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 9:17 AM William Precht via Coral-List <
>
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)>
> wrote:
>
> > To be blunt - my point was while we are bickering about whether
>
> > *Dendrogyra* was
>
> > or not it was an important reef builder and the importance of losing
>
> > individual species even if they were always rare - we are missing the
>
> > bigger picture. In the last four decades we have watched reef after reef
>
> > go up in flames. Some due to local causes but most to to
>
> > overarching regional and global issues associated with global climate
>
> > change. *Dendrogyra cylindrus* is nothing more than a bellwether species
>
> > that is giving us a glimpse of the future. .Dendrogyra is a
>
> > beautiful iconic species and seeing a giant colony on a dive is awe
>
> > inspiring. I remember making a dive in the Florida Keys to a site known
> as
>
> > the "Pillar Forest." There were over 200 columns at this one site! They
>
> > are now ALL gone - dead from a variety of causes - but the main and final
>
> > blow was from SCTLD.
>
> >
>
> > People have been talking about reefs as being like "canaries in a coal
>
> > mine" - well that canary has a very bad case of COPD and it's getting
> worse
>
> > day by day. This week the average CO2 concentration at the Mauna Loa
>
> > Observatory was 419.02 ppm. In 2009 Veron et al. wrote a manuscript of
> the
>
> > need to maintain CO2 concentrations below 350 ppm for the future survival
>
> > of coral reef ecosystems. That number came from a quote by Dr.
>
> > James Hansen during testimony to the US Congress where he stated “If
>
> > humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which
> civilization
>
> > developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence
> and
>
> > ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced … to at
>
> > most 350 ppm.” The math is pretty simple - we are going in the wrong
>
> > direction. We all know what we must do - the question is do we have the
>
> > political will to make the changes necessary. My note was a call to the
>
> > 10,000 people that are as passionate as coral reefs as I am that exchange
>
> > ideas on this Coral-List serve. It's time to speak with one voice. We
> need
>
> > to be heard. We can make a difference. The alternative - failing (which
> we
>
> > are doing quite admirably) - is not an option.
>
> >
>
> > WFP
>
> >
>
> > Veron, J.E., Hoegh-Guldberg, O., Lenton, T.M., Lough, J.M., Obura, D.O.,
>
> > Pearce-Kelly, P.A.U.L., Sheppard, C.R., Spalding, M., Stafford-Smith,
> M.G.
>
> > and Rogers, A.D., 2009. The coral reef crisis: The critical importance
> of<
>
> > 350 ppm CO2. *Marine pollution bulletin*, *58*(10), pp.1428-1436.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 9:38 AM Dennis Hubbard > >
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Bill makes excellent points, but we always return to the same issue....
>
> > is
>
> > > the loss of "species X "the problem to be addressed or just the
> symptom.
>
> > > Yes, this is a unique species, and saving it is a worthwhile endeavor
> for
>
> > > this and many other reasons. Having agreed, I remain concerned that
>
> > success
>
> > > on this front will lead some to be satisfied.
>
> > >
>
> > > Denny
>
> > >
>
> > > On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:36 PM William Precht via Coral-List <
>
> > > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)>
> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >> The manuscript that started this thread on the coral- list was an
>
> > >> excellent, open-access manuscript by Neely et al. Rapid Population
>
> > >> Decline of the Pillar Coral Dendrogyra cylindrus Along the Florida
> Reef
>
> > >> Tract
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Front. Mar. Sci. doi: 10.3389/fmars.2021.656515
>
> > >>
>
> > >> It should be read by all There are two main punch lines. The first is
>
> > >> that this species has been rendered functionally extinct (extirpated)
>
> > >> throughout Florida. The second is that the main cause was stony coral
>
> > >> tissue loss disease (SCTLD). This species is highly susceptible to
> this
>
> > >> emergent disease as are the three other genera in its family - the
>
> > >> Meandrinidae. All species in this family and are highly susceptible to
>
> > >> SCTLD. On many reefs where the disease has run it course you can’t
>
> > find a
>
> > >> single member of this family. No Meandrina, no Dendrogyra, no
>
> > >> Dichocoenia,
>
> > >> no Eusmilia. So the story goes much further than just pillar coral. We
>
> > >> may be looking at the loss of an entire coral family in a short
> window -
>
> > >> and this coral family is only extant in the Caribbean.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> If this doesn’t serve as a wake-up call I don’t know what will.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Clearly losing more than 50% of the corals on the GBR due to mass
>
> > >> bleaching
>
> > >> events in 2015-2016 did not cause a sea change in policy - not in
>
> > >> Australia
>
> > >> - not globally. For most it’s been business as usual.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> I’m getting sick and tired of writing and reading coral obituaries. In
>
> > my
>
> > >> 40+ years of studying coral reefs I have watched my three favorite
> reefs
>
> > >> burn before my very eyes and the reefs that lie at the door step of
>
> > where
>
> > >> I
>
> > >> live are suffering the same fate.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> The coral-list has a voice of 10,000 people that love coral reefs -
>
> > let’s
>
> > >> use that voice to make a difference. Time really is running out.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Bill
>
> > >>
>
> > >>
>
> > >>
>
> > >> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:38 PM Peter Sale via Coral-List <
>
> > >> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)>
> wrote:
>
> > >>
>
> > >> > Hi listers,
>
> > >> > I've been following the comments re the essential extirpation of
>
> > >> > Dendrogyra in Florida waters. The fact that this is not a major reef
>
> > >> > builder (Gene is correct) is beside the point from my perspective.
>
> > >> Here is
>
> > >> > a monotypic species that looks like it may be on the way out
>
> > throughout
>
> > >> its
>
> > >> > range, and certainly in a large portion of it. (I'm being
> pessimistic
>
> > >> but
>
> > >> > perhaps realistic in predicting total extinction.) The biodiversity
>
> > >> loss
>
> > >> > is great. This is a coral (and I am definitely NOT a coral expert)
>
> > >> that is
>
> > >> > phenotypically quite distinctive. It has one of, if not the most
>
> > >> > well-connected nerve nets leading to a conspicuous flash when all
> the
>
> > >> > polyps retract in unison following a disturbance. God only knows
> what
>
> > >> > other special skills it has tucked amongst its tentacles. From an
>
> > >> > evolutionary point of view, its loss is a greater loss than the loss
>
> > of
>
> > >> > many other coral species. My fear is that we are going to have to
>
> > >> become
>
> > >> > used to such losses. Let's a) strive not to let the losses becom
>
> > >> > e un-noticed and routine, and b) use such losses to highlight, and
>
> > make
>
> > >> > 'personal', what it means for a reef to gradually lose its species
> and
>
> > >> > cease to be a reef. Getting people to relate to what is happening,
> to
>
> > >> > actually feel what is happening, may be the only way to rescue
>
> > humanity
>
> > >> > from turning the planet into a wasteland, starting with the reefs.
>
> > >> >
>
> > >> > Peter Sale
>
> > >> > www.petersalebooks.com (http://www.petersalebooks.com/)
>
> > >> > @PeterSale3
>
> > >> >
>
> > >> > See my latest book at
>
> > >> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
> https://www.amazon.com/Coral-Reefs-Majestic-Realms-under/dp/0300253834/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=coral+reefs+peter+sale&qid=1622149307&sr=8-1
>
> > >> >
>
> > >> > _______________________________________________
>
> > >> > Coral-List mailing list
>
> > >> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)
>
> > >> > https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
> > >> >
>
> > >> --
>
> > >> William F. Precht
>
> > >>
>
> > >> “You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only
>
> > choice
>
> > >> you have”
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Bob Marley
>
> > >>
>
> > >>
>
> > >> "Courage is not having the strength to go on; it is going on when you
>
> > >> don't
>
> > >> have the strength."
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> > >> _______________________________________________
>
> > >> Coral-List mailing list
>
> > >> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> )
>
> > >> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > --
>
> > > Dennis Hubbard - Emeritus Professor: Dept of Geology-Oberlin College
>
> > > Oberlin OH 44074
>
> > > (440) 935-4014
>
> > >
>
> > > * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
>
> > > Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > William F. Precht
>
> >
>
> > “You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice
>
> > you have”
>
> >
>
> > Bob Marley
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Courage is not having the strength to go on; it is going on when you
> don't
>
> > have the strength."
>
> >
>
> > Theodore Roosevelt
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Coral-List mailing list
>
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov (mailto:Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov)
>
> > https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
> --
>
> Dr. Steve Gittings, Science Coordinator
>
> NOAA Office of National Marine Sanctuaries
>
> 1305 East West Hwy., N/ORM62
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>
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>
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>
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> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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>
> --
>
> Dr. Steve Gittings, Science Coordinator
>
> NOAA Office of National Marine Sanctuaries
>
> 1305 East West Hwy., N/ORM62
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>
> (240) 533-0708 (w), (301) 529-1854 (c1), (301) 821-0857 (c2)
>
> Follow National Marine Sanctuaries (http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/)
>
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