[Coral-List] Fwd: eDNA can be used to measure coral cover
Vassil Zlatarski
vzlatarski at gmail.com
Fri Jun 11 10:38:54 UTC 2021
Hope of interest.
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Alina Szmant <alina at cisme-instruments.com>
Date: Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Coral-List] eDNA can be used to measure coral cover
To: Kelsey Yetsko <klyetsko at gmail.com>, Risk, Michael <riskmj at mcmaster.ca>,
vzlatarski at gmail.com <vzlatarski at gmail.com>, Phillip Dustan <
phil.dustan at gmail.com>, Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>,
steve.gittings at noaa.gov <steve.gittings at noaa.gov>
Kelsey:
The problems with your position are two-fold: (1) you assume that fossil
fuel consumption is the only and major driver of climate change, and this
is factually incorrect. (2) You ignore the effect of those who consume
little per capita, but there are many more of them than of the higher
consuming humans. It is cumulative, not either or.
Destruction of forests for more food crops and firewood and building
materials, killing off of wildlife for food, pollution of waterways and air
because of lack of infrastructure to handle the waste of high-density
populations, overfishing, especially in coral reef areas in the tropics, is
mostly by groups of high density human populations consuming local
resources or fishing to keep themselves alive or to sell to wealthier
markets. This is not a color or race or ethnicity issue. We are all stuck
on this planet together. The wealthier higher consuming countries do have a
responsibility to reduce consumption and use their wealth to help poorer
countries with higher birth rates fund education and family planning
programs, and to help them economically so there isn't the perceived need
to have lots of children to help keep the parents alive in old age.
With regard to earlier (cop-out) posts about 'what expertise do any of us
have to suggest cures for the overpopulation issue', one doesn't have to be
a certified demography expert to have ideas about how to reduce human birth
rates. This is not rocket science. It is simple stuff that is difficult to
get people to do. Tons has been written about this, this is not a new idea
or problem. But past efforts have been, for the most part, poorly funded
and not comprehensive. The exception being the Chinese one child rule,
which I am disappointed to see has morphed into three children per couple.
Interestingly, most Chinese couples don't want larger families anymore
because it is expensive to raise competitive children and they want their
children to excel.
Check out programs being organized by my favorite NGO, Population
Connection. This is the organization I give most of my donations to because
they understand the problem very clearly. They produced a 4.5 minute video
that everyone should watch available on this YouTube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khFjdmp9sZk
Among the major programs that have been suggested to address population
control and reduction are:
1) Free birth control of any and all kinds to prevent unwanted
pregnancies. I have seen reports that half of all births were not planned
and mostly unwanted. If humans won't give up having lots of coitus then at
least provide the means so that intercourse doesn't lead to pregnancy. The
saddest scenario for me is to see the thousands of children born into
refugee concentration camps. Children born under these circumstances have
poor prospects of a good life. Birth control should be passed out daily
along with food and medications. This is especially true in HIV impacted
areas.
2) Not just family planning education but education about the impact of
humans on global ecology and of having too many children on the success
rate of the children when parents can't provide for them. The driving
factors for many of the areas with the highest birth rates and family sizes
are religious mores and male pride. Programs need to be developed to
educate not just women but especially the men/ husbands about their
self-worth not being measured by how many offspring they beget. India had a
Soap Opera that hundreds of millions of people watched that gradually
brought people to understanding the issues. More efforts like these need to
be implemented. They can have impact in only a year or two.
3)These efforts should be coupled with economic incentives to NOT have
children. Many places that are having problems with the demographic
transition are doing the opposite, trying to encourage young people to have
more children (e.g. China). This is alarming and instead nations should be
diverting funds from less important programs to providing a basic income
for every person but with incentives to not have lots of children (e.g.
have more than 2 you lose the subsidy for the second child). Employ younger
people to take care of older people. As long as economic theory is based on
growing the economy, we are doomed. This can be done. But the people in
charge have to be aware of the problem and want to do something about it,
and out national and global leaders are woefully lacking.
Some of the above may seem draconian but the time for everyone to do
whatever they want, to consider the number of children one can have as a
personal issue is past. All of global society is affected by the decisions
we each take each day: what we eat, how much energy we use, where we get
our energy, how much frivolity we have in our life, what we destroy in the
wake of keeping ourselves alive. Putting human needs first over everything
and anything on Earth is what got us in this pickle and we have to
collectively change our mindset or the ship will sink. Coral reefs, polar
bears, elephants, lions, wolves etc and all of us humans are all on the
same sinking ship. Leave it to Mother Nature to solve the problem and it
won't be a pretty picture.
*************************************************************************
Dr. Alina M. Szmant, CEO
CISME Instruments LLC
210 Braxlo Lane,
Wilmington NC 28409 USA
AAUS Scientific Diving Lifetime Achievement Awardee
cell: 910-200-3913
EMAIL: alina at cisme-instruments.com
Website: www.cisme-instruments.com
CISME IS NOW SOLD BY QUBIT SYSTEMS; https://qubitbiology.com/cisme/
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Videos: CISME Promotional Video 5:43 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAYeR9qX71A&t=6s
CISME Short version Demo Video 3:00 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa4SqS7yC08
CISME Cucalorus 10x10 Sketch 4:03 min
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-----Original Message-----
From: Coral-List <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> On Behalf Of
Kelsey Yetsko via Coral-List
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:36 AM
To: Risk, Michael <riskmj at mcmaster.ca>; vzlatarski at gmail.com; Phillip
Dustan <phil.dustan at gmail.com>; Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>;
coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>; steve.gittings at noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] eDNA can be used to measure coral cover
Hello all,
I've been following the discourse on this for the last few weeks, and while
I agree with a lot that has been said, I am concerned with some of what has
been shared, mainly regarding the idea of overpopulation.
I agree with Michael, the issue isn't overpopulation, which has
racist/eugenics underpinnings - especially in regards with how we would
conceive going about controlling population, the main issue is
overconsumption and current infrastructure. The top 3 contributors are
China, the US, and the European Union.
https://www.wri.org/insights/interactive-chart-shows-changes-worlds-top-10-emitters
We have a long way to go in regards to changing energy production,
transportation, and manufacturing to fix these issues, but that fact that
we are the perpetrators actually can be seen as a good thing - it means we
have the control and means to fix these issues. So I think that is reason
for hope. But I think we need to be careful in allowing harmful narratives
like overpopulation to take control. There are enough resources to sustain
the current population but not at the current level of consumption of
certain countries, and we need to fix this via what has already been said
by Phil and others, by being politically active and being conscious
consumers and being clear with our messaging to the public as scientists.
Regarding the discussion regarding molecular tools such as eDNA, research
regarding phenotypic plasticity, and others, as someone with a molecular
biology background who has worked with both corals and studying sea turtle
fibropapillomatosis, I think these are really important tools for
monitoring and helping coral reefs and other marine species, and there may
be some miscommunication regarding how these tools can be utilized.
I completely agree that trying to assist corals through assisted evolution
techniques or stress hardening techniques without first addressing the main
drivers of their decline - namely climate change and nutrient pollution -
would be a waste. What has been suggested is that we use these tools to
help corals persist in the short term while we as humans work to 'get our
acts together' and fix these other issues, because unfortunately, with the
rate things are going I am truly afraid of how the world's reefs will look
as things continue the way they are without any sort of intervention. And
unfortunately, studies have shown that even if emissions were to drop to
zero (while work is being done to drop emissions, going absolutely to zero
anytime soon is unlikely if ever to happen), the effects of climate change
would continue for some time before improving. So I do think leveraging
natural coral genotypic variation, natural symbiont variation, and
phenotypic plasticity to help corals survive these stressors now, will
hopefully give us the time we need to improve our local waters and global
climate.
Regarding eDNA specifically, while this may be outside the scope of the
shared paper, I think this could be a very useful tool for monitoring
disease progression, which can be used in mitigation strategies. If we were
able to develop DNA markers for diseases like SCTLD (although this would
require more knowledge on the cause, whether it's a difference in
microbiome composition or a specific pathogen), it could make surveying
disease vs disease-free areas much faster, as you would only need to take a
water sample compared to going out and doing visual surveys. It could even
provide information of areas that may be 'primed' for the disease to start
showing visual manifestation, as we may be able to detect these changes
sooner than they visually manifest. This could give us an earlier window
for action. These are tools that have already been used to monitor Covid-19
(https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30739-6/fulltext), they
are tools we've proposed to use to monitor sea turtle FP in the wild (
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-021-02085-2), and I think these
tools can, in the right way, be used to help corals as well.
As someone who is still relatively new to the field, I appreciate the
discourse and information everyone has shared so far.
Best,
Kelsey Yetsko
On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:38 AM Risk, Michael via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
> Phil:
>
> This is funny-not funny. You are right on the money-a lot of reef
> research these days is resume-padding which will in no way help the
> reefs.
>
> I think maybe 20 years ago, on this site, I said that the world's reefs
> would have a rosier future of all the "reef scientists" quit and taught
> elementary school.
>
> I disagree strongly with your overpopulation angle, and draw your
> attention to "A September 2020 [1]report by Oxfam found that from 1990
> to 2015 -- a critical 25-year period during which humans doubled the
> amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere -- the wealthiest 1 percent
> of the world's population accounted for more than twice as much carbon
> pollution as the 3.1 billion people who made up the poorest half of
> humanity."
>
> It's not the little brown people who are the problem, it's the big rich
> white ones.
>
> Mike
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Coral-List <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> on behalf of
> Phillip Dustan via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 8:29 AM
> To: Douglas Fenner <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
> Cc: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] eDNA can be used to measure coral cover
>
> Once again, Western Science has figured out another way to apply
> advanced
> technological tools to measure the loss of coral reefs. I will bet
> anyone a
> case of beer that most people who rely on reefs in their daily lives
> could
> not tell you what 50% of the nouns in this paper are, let alone why
> they
> might be relevant. Leslie Watkins, the longtime gardener at Discovery
> Bay
> Marine Lab once told me," Phil, you don't even have to visit the reef
> to
> see it is dying. From here (the DBML breezway) you can see it is dark
> brown, no longer golden and alive."
> Every new paper about reefs now begins with "..... the most threatened
> ecosystems in the sea or on the planet....." and then goes about saying
> how
> this offering will make a difference. When are we going to realise that
> our
> behavior is enabling the continued destruction of reefs? None of the
> normal
> reasons add up anymore. Rees do not need us to invent new techniques to
> monitor their demise. Reefs don't NEED funds to keep our laboratories
> chock
> full of new state-of-the-art PCR machines, 50mb cameras, or
> supercomputers. I think the coral reef science community is stuck
> chasing
> its tail in an ever decreasing circle.
> My last post asked if we were ready to really do something meaningful.
> That
> begins at home, the lab, the institution, and society.
> Alina is spot on correct. Overpopulation is the driver of our demise.
> Maybe
> we should begin to recognize it, popularize it, work towards solutions,
> and
> stop trying to hide behind technology............
> There are over 10,000 people who monitor the Coral_List. Steve Gitting
> suggests the list is "only for discussion" and we all know it is
> overseen
> by an agency embedded in the US Commerce Department. So why can't it be
> a
> priority for us all to work towards a day when natural infrastructure
> is
> valued over economic growth. Nations can always print more money but,
> as we
> discuss on this platform, we really can't make more reefs, or other
> ecosystems, or even a planet without the appropriate natural
> infrastructure. Watching it die with an ever finer resolving
> "microscope"
> might be intellectually satisfying but sadly ineffective...............
> So please, do at least one thing every day to help the oceans heal and
> remember that THE OCEAN BEGINS AT YOUR FRONT DOOR. Take your knowledge
> outside of your laboratory and the pages of scientific publications.
> Get
> political because science in a vacuum is useless.
> Happy Ocean Week,
> Phil
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 7:38 AM Douglas Fenner via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
> > Rapid assessment of coral cover from environmental DNA in Hawaii
> >
> > [2]https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/edn3.8
> >
> > open-access
> >
> > To quote from the abstract: "Given its broad applicability and ease
> of
> > use..." Yes, everyone on every tiny island nation with coral reefs
> can do
> > PCR on their coffee break, it is as easy as using a pencil and paper
> to
> > write. No equipment or prior knowledge needed. Obviously the
> authors have
> > no idea what the real world is like in other island nations outside
> their
> > lab in the giant and well funded first-world University of Hawaii.
> >
> > I note that they had to develop primers specific to the corals in
> > Hawaii. So looks like for other places that would have to be done
> over,
> > for much higher diversity, Hawaii has a relatively low coral
> diversity.
> >
> > Please excuse the sarcasm, but really. Cheers, Doug
> >
> > --
> > Douglas Fenner
> > Lynker Technologies, LLC, Contractor
> > NOAA Fisheries Service
> > Pacific Islands Regional Office
> > Honolulu
> > and:
> > Coral Reef Consulting
> > PO Box 997390
> > Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799-6298 USA
> >
> > Slashing emissions by 2050 isn't enough. We can bring down
> temperature
> > now.
> >
> >
> [3]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/climate-deadlines-super-pollu
> tants-hfcs-methane/2021/04/15/acb8c612-9d7d-11eb-b7a8-014b14aeb9e4_stor
> y.html
> >
> > Humans have destroyed 97% of earth's ecosystems
> > (well, more like only 3% are fully intact)
> > [4]https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB1fH7DT?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare
> >
> > Study: One-third of plant and animal species could be gone in 50
> years.
> > (but 2-4 times worse in tropics)
> > [5]https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-02/uoa-soo021220.php
> > [6]https://www.pnas.org/content/117/8/4211
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > [7]https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> >
> --
> Phillip Dustan PhD
> Charleston SC 29424
> 843-953-8086 office
> 843-224-3321 (mobile)
> "When we try to pick out anything by itself
> we find that it is bound fast by a thousand invisible cords
> that cannot be broken, to everything in the universe. "
> * John Muir 1869*
> *A Swim Through TIme on Carysfort Reef*
> [8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCPJE7UE6sA
> *Raja Ampat Sustainability Project video*
> [9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RR2SazW_VY&fbclid=IwAR09oZkEk8wQkK6
> LN3XzVGPgAWSujACyUfe2Ist__nYxRRSkDE_jAYqkJ7A
> *Bali Coral Bleaching 2016 video*
> *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOfLTnPSUo
> <[10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOfLTnPSUo>*
> TEDx Charleston on saving coral reefs
> [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwENBNrfKj4
> Google Scholar Citations:
> [12]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=HCwfXZ0AAAAJ
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> [13]https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
> References
>
> 1.
>
https://go.redirectingat.com?id=66960X1516588&xs=1&url=https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/carbon-emissions-richest-1-percent-more-double-emissions-poorest-half-humanity&referrer=vox.com&sref=https://www.vox.com/22456663/arizona-environment-immigration-climate-change-right-wing&xcust=___vx__p_22220704__m_climate.ad.20210608__s_email_
> 2. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/edn3.8
> 3.
>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/climate-deadlines-super-pollutants-hfcs-methane/2021/04/15/acb8c612-9d7d-11eb-b7a8-014b14aeb9e4_story.html
> 4. https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB1fH7DT?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare
> 5. https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-02/uoa-soo021220.php
> 6. https://www.pnas.org/content/117/8/4211
> 7. https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> 8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCPJE7UE6sA
> 9.
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RR2SazW_VY&fbclid=IwAR09oZkEk8wQkK6LN3XzVGPgAWSujACyUfe2Ist__nYxRRSkDE_jAYqkJ7A
> 10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOfLTnPSUo
> 11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwENBNrfKj4
> 12. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=HCwfXZ0AAAAJ
> 13. https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
>
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