[Coral-List] new sponge climate record
Dennis Hubbard
dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu
Wed Feb 7 14:26:07 UTC 2024
Phil:
Thanks for your historical commentl. One ooooold question on your use of
"framework. How specifically are you using this definition? In the 60s and
70s, we spent way too much time trying to convince ourselves that a "reef":
was a feature largely constructed from in-place corals.. As one who looked
at "reefs" in core as much as biological entities we swam over, it was
pretty obvious that these were more "garbage piles" held together by
secondary biological and chemical "cements" than purely biologically built,
in-place features. Some have called seawalls and breakwater "reefs" but I
think those of us on the listserve all agree that these are not what we are
talking about on the listserve.
Best,
Denny
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 8:18 AM Phillip Dustan via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> Tom Goreau discovered the "beasts" living in the depths of Discovery Bay
> in the 1960. He and Willard Hartman figured out what they were. Then Tom
> found them living in shallow caves at Pear Tree Bottom. Lynton Land brought
> Nekton to DBMT in 1972 and we found them to be major framework builders to
> around 300 ft.
>
> In the 1970's I dove a site in Reading to the west of Montego Bay where we
> found them living in great profusion at 50-80 ft. They are very slow
> growing at 1 to 2 mm/yr; consequently their skeletons are in equilibrium
> with seawater. I have a pre-CITES collection if anyone is interested in a
> collaboration.
> Phil
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 7:28 PM Risk, Michael via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
>
> > Yes, an excellent (although ultimately depressing) paper by some very
> > competent people.
> >
> > Some additional context here: for many years (centuries, even)
> > geologists have been studying a mysterious group of critters called
> > stromatoporoids. They are worldwide in their distribution, and
> confined
> > (we thought!) to the Paleozoic. In some areas, especially in the
> > Devonian of Western Canada, they host significant reserves of
> > petroleum.
> >
> > We were never sure what they were. Early workers thought they were
> > corals, or algae, or sponges-or, in one burst of brilliance, forams.
> > After a while we more or less settled on them being sponges, although
> > of a group unlike any we had seen. Until Judy Lang found and described
> > the ones living at some depths in caves off the north coast of
> Jamaica.
> >
> > The paleontologists fell on this discovery with cries of
> > delight-finally, stromatoporoids had a home! Sponges after all.
> >
> > They are not uncommon, in the Caribbean. I have collected them at
> > relatively shallow depths (10m) in caves on Grand Cayman. For a while,
> > I had a ginormous one in my collection-ginormous being a relative
> term.
> > It was about 15x10cm. At the time, neither the techniques nor the
> money
> > were available to work on it. Then the university decided to emphasize
> > other aspects, and took over my lab-that specimen now is somewhere in
> a
> > landfill.
> >
> > Kudos to the authors. This is great work.
> > __________________________________________________________________
> >
> > From: Coral-List <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> on behalf
> of
> > Douglas Fenner via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2024 3:29 AM
> > To: coral list <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> > Subject: Re: [Coral-List] new sponge climate record
> >
> > Caution: External email.
> > The sclerosponge quote comes from
> > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge
> > Cheers, Doug
> > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:27PM Douglas Fenner
> > <douglasfennertassi at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Sea sponges keep climate records and the accounting is grim, study
> > shows
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > [2]
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/sea-sponges-keep-climat
> > e-records-and-the-accounting-is-grim-new-study-shows/ar-BB1hO8nw
> > >
> > > open-access
> > >
> > > Ocean warming and warning
> > >
> > > [3]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01921-z
> > >
> > > Not open-access
> > >
> > > 300 years of sclerosponge thermometry shows global warming has
> > exceeded
> > > 1.5 C
> > >
> > > [4]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01919-7
> > >
> > > open-access. The sponges were collected in Puerto Rico at a depth
> of
> > > 31-91 m, so mesophotic (probably coral reef). Sclerosponges have a
> > massive
> > > and hard calcium skeleton with a thin layer of living sponge tissue
> > on the
> > > surface. They are mostly at mesophotic depths in the Caribbean, in
> > lower
> > > light habitats if shallower. Not really common I would say. I'm
> > presuming
> > > that they add to their external skeleton slowly. Most are pretty
> > small,
> > > one species can be at least 10 cm diameter, others may be smaller.
> I
> > don't
> > > think I've ever seen one in the Indo-Pacific, though they are surely
> > here.
> > > My impression is not many species.
> > >
> > > Wikipedia says "
> > > Sclerosponges[edit
> > >
> > <[5]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demosponge&action=edit&s
> > ection=2>
> > > ]
> > >
> > > Sclerosponges were first proposed as a class of sponges,
> > *Sclerospongiae*,
> > > in 1970 by Hartman and Goreau.[16]
> > > <[6]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge#cite_note-16> However,
> > it was
> > > later found by Vacelet that sclerosponges occur in different classes
> > of
> > > Porifera <[7]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porifera>.[17]
> > > <[8]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge#cite_note-17> That
> means
> > that
> > > sclerosponges are not a closely related (taxonomic
> > > <[9]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy_(biology)>) group of
> > sponges and
> > > are considered to be a polyphyletic grouping and contained within
> the
> > > Demospongiae. Like bats <[10]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat> and
> > birds
> > > <[11]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird> that independently
> developed
> > the
> > > ability to fly, different sponges developed the ability to build a
> > > calcareous skeleton independently and at different times in Earth's
> > > history
> > <[12]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geological_history_of_Earth>.
> > > Fossil sclerosponges are already known from the Cambrian
> > > <[13]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian> period.[18]
> > > <[14]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge#cite_note-18>"
> > > For more articles on related subjects, see:
> > [15]https://www.nature.com/search
> > >
> > > Such as:
> > >
> > > Resistance to ocean acidification in coral reef taxa is not gained
> by
> > > acclimatization
> > >
> > > Coral resilience to ocean acidification and global warming through
> pH
> > > up-regulation
> > >
> > > A coralline alga gains tolerance to ocean acidification over
> multiple
> > > generations of exposure
> > >
> > > Cheers, Doug
> > >
> > > --
> > > Douglas Fenner
> > > Lynker Technologies, LLC, Contractor
> > > NOAA Fisheries Service
> > > Pacific Islands Regional Office
> > > Honolulu
> > > and:
> > > Coral Reef Consulting
> > > PO Box 997390
> > > Pago Pago, American Samoa 96799-6298 USA
> > >
> > > Costanza, R. 2023. To build a better world, stop chasing economic
> > growth.
> > > Nature 624: 519-521.
> > [16]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-04029-8
> > >
> > > Fossil fuel air pollution kills 5 million people world-wide per year
> > >
> > >
> > [17]
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/research-shows-disturbing-between-millio
> > ns-200000257.html
> > >
> > > World's richest 1% emit as much as 5 billion people
> > > [18]https://makerichpolluterspay.org/climate-equality-report/
> > >
> > > Huge expansion of fossil fuels planned, will be very destructive
> > >
> > >
> > [19]
> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/08/insanity-petros
> > tates-planning-huge-expansion-of-fossil-fuels-says-un-report
> > >
> > > "without policy changes, the world will heat up enough by the end of
> > the
> > > century that more than 2 billion people will live in
> life-threatening
> > hot
> > > climates" Will you be in that area???
> > >
> > >
> > [20]
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientists-sounding-alarm-dangerous-prob
> > lem-123000792.html
> > >
> > > World subsidies for fossil fuels reached an all-time high of over $1
> > > TRILLION in 2022, the last year for which data is available. The
> > subsidies
> > > MUST end.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > [21]
> https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/fossil-fuel-subsi
> > dies-must-end/
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > [22]https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge
> > 2.
> >
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/sea-sponges-keep-climate-records-and-the-accounting-is-grim-new-study-shows/ar-BB1hO8nw
> > 3. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01921-z
> > 4. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01919-7
> > 5.
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demosponge&action=edit§ion=2
> > 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge#cite_note-16
> > 7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porifera>.[17
> > 8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge#cite_note-17
> > 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy_(biology
> > 10. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat
> > 11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird
> > 12. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geological_history_of_Earth
> > 13. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian
> > 14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosponge#cite_note-18
> > 15. https://www.nature.com/search
> > 16. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-04029-8
> > 17.
> >
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/research-shows-disturbing-between-millions-200000257.html
> > 18. https://makerichpolluterspay.org/climate-equality-report/
> > 19.
> >
> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/08/insanity-petrostates-planning-huge-expansion-of-fossil-fuels-says-un-report
> > 20.
> >
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientists-sounding-alarm-dangerous-problem-123000792.html
> > 21.
> >
> https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/fossil-fuel-subsidies-must-end/
> > 22. https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coral-List mailing list
> > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Phillip Dustan PhD
> Charleston SC 29424
> 843-953-8086 office
> 843-224-3321 (mobile)
>
> "When we try to pick out anything by itself
> we find that it is bound fast by a thousand invisible cords
> that cannot be broken, to everything in the universe. "
> * John Muir 1869*
>
> *A Swim Through TIme on Carysfort Reef*
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCPJE7UE6sA
> *Raja Ampat Sustainability Project video*
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RR2SazW_VY&fbclid=IwAR09oZkEk8wQkK6LN3XzVGPgAWSujACyUfe2Ist__nYxRRSkDE_jAYqkJ7A
> *Bali Coral Bleaching 2016 video*
>
> *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOfLTnPSUo
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOfLTnPSUo>*
> TEDx Charleston on saving coral reefs
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwENBNrfKj4
> Google Scholar Citations:
> https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=HCwfXZ0AAAAJ
> _______________________________________________
> Coral-List mailing list
> Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
--
Dennis Hubbard - Emeritus Professor: Dept of Geology-Oberlin College
Oberlin OH 44074
(440) 935-4014
* "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
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