[Coral-List] corals digest their zoozanthelle

Wed Aug 30 00:32:43 UTC 2023

Oh wow Tom!

Has it really become this easy?   At the risk of public shaming (LOL),
thanks for opening my eyes.

I am in my 70th year and have lived an isolated life disconnected from
libraries and new technological advances since 2001. Internet searching was
never in my research methods course-  as I came out of the card catalogue
primitive period before the internet and personal computers!   I have been
using Google Search for several years, thinking that this was an amazing
advance, but it still requires wading through so many news articles and
junk.  While I noticed in the past year or two that a summary would appear
at the top of my Google search, I still did not fully understand that it
was a portal to Google Scholar, and that Scholar would include both the
older and newer literature and that it cuts right through all the junk- it
is amazing!

Yes it is crazy that I did not "get it", and it has taken me this long to
understand this, but I can blame that on my dyslexia LOL!   And maybe I am
not alone?  As you have so easily demonstrated by this example, I wonder
why these authors missed the early works?  Are they also dyslectic
old-timers like me- LOL!

With AI, might we train the models to inspect our paper drafts for major
literature omissions?  This would likely be better than human reviewers
(this aspect of review is a real yawner), and thus help prevent any gaping
omissions, and it would also properly give credit where credit is due.  It
might also vastly speed up the publication process?

Thanks again, and regards to all,

Austin

Austin Bowden-Kerby, PhD
Corals for Conservation
P.O. Box 4649 Samabula, Fiji Islands

https://www.corals4conservation.org
Publication on C4C's coral-focused climate change adaptation strategies:
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strategies:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0lqKciXAA
TEDx talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PRLJ8zDm0U
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On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 8:04 AM Tomas via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I do not believe that there is anyone here on the list that expects us
> to read every paper that is published in our field. I think that what
> appears to be sadly lacking is the curiosity of chasing after the
> original idea. I found Wiedenmann et al. (2023) article of great
> interest, but clearly the hype in the mainstream media took it over the
> hill with headlines like this:
>
>
> https://scitechdaily.com/darwins-paradox-of-coral-reefs-solved-scientists-unravel-age-old-mystery/
>
> Not that long ago we were told the same:
>
>
> https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2016/04/11/scientists-solve-darwins-paradox/
>
> I am happy that we solved "Darwin's Paradox" not once, but twice!
>
> With thousands of research papers from the past now digitized, and
> easily available trough most university libraries, it really is not that
> difficult to search if someone else has also done research on the topic.
> In case of Wiedenmann et al. (2023), the digestion of zooxanthellae by
> the coral animal. I used the 'Google Scholar' and searched for
> "digestion of zooxanthellae" and this is the results that popped up:
>
>
> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=digestion+of+zooxanthellae&btnG=
>
> Boschma's 1925 article is second from the top, yet it did not make it as
> a reference in Wiedenmann et al. (2023). If a claim is being made of a
> major discovery (well, the mainstream media certainly seems to think so)
> than it is only fair to search the literature for past work on the
> subject.
>
> In 1996, Titlyanov et al. (2019) also concluded that: "... hermatypic
> corals are capable of regulating their zooxanthellae populations by
> digestion and extrusion of zooxanthellae remnants". Yet, this article is
> also missing from Wiedenmann et al. (2023) reference list. For anyone
> interested in that article here is a link:
> https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/139/m139p167.pdf).
>
> I don't expect anyone to read all the papers being published on coral
> reefs and corals (an impossible task to begin with), but I am
> disappointed that more effort is not being made to search the vast
> literature that is now at our fingertips for more relevant articles.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Tom
>
> ps: Citing:
>
> Darwin, C.R. (1842). The Structure and Distribution of Coral Reefs.
> Smith Elder and CO, London, 214 pp. (Reprinted 1962 University of
> California Press, Barkely, CA).
>
> in the first sentence of the Wiedenmann et al. (2023) article would have
> been nice.
>
>
> On 2023-08-28 4:02 pm, Hannah Mazurek via Coral-List wrote:
> > As one of the young/newer researchers and individuals on this list this
> > exchange has been very disheartening to read. I am new to the large and
> > growing field of coral work and research. My undergraduate degree
> > really only covered the basics of coral ecology, reef structure, and
> > importance as I was at the time getting a bachelors in biology from a
> > university surrounded by freshwater. Only within maybe the last two
> > years have I even been close to the world of coral research and only
> > the past year has involved me working directly in this realm. If in
> > that year all I did was read current and past research there is no way
> > I could have even scratched the surface of the literature, and I did do
> > a lot of reading to build myself up from a base of zero technical
> > knowledge regarding corals or my work with histology. However, that
> > wasn't the only thing I did. I was completing my masters degree and
> > internship, running fecundity calculations, spending long lab hours.
> > When I wasn't in the lab I would be doing statistics or reading
> > literature, including yours, to increase my understanding and
> > knowledge. And of I wasn't doing either of those things I was working a
> > second job because that is what I needed to do. I want to learn, I want
> > to read, and I want to remain within this research world but it is
> > saddening to see this attitude.
> > Austin, thank you for your words of encouragement.
> > Hannah MazurekMPS Rosenstiel schoolCoral Histology Technician, Nova
> > Southeastern University
> >
> >
> >  It is a shame that so many people who have an interest in coral reefs>
> > > haven't either had the opportunity to take a higher level coral reef>
> > ecology and physiology course, or in lieu of this, taken the time to> >
> actually read the scientific literature. I was of the impression that>
> when> > Coral-List was started by Jim Hendee it was oriented to coral reef>
> > scientists communicating with each other about substantive coral reef> >
> topics. It was open to all which is a good way for those with little> >
> background to learn from scientists with more experience. Over the> years,
> I> > find that this scenario has changed and it is now more a forum for> >
> afficionados, but not necessarily ones with any background in the science>
> > of corals and coral reefs. I have shelves of books about all kinds of> >
> geological, ecological and biological aspects of corals that I use to>
> brush> > up on topics, and there have been excellent overview books over
> the> decades> > for those who take the time to read them. e.g. Ecosystems
> of the World> Vol> > 25 Coral Reefs
> (1990). Then there is https://scholar.google.com for more> > specific
> literature searches.> >> > I am sorry, but I will not apologize for
> being shocked that in 2023> people> > on this list would be so
> uninformed about coral biology to not know what> is> > basically general
> knowledge that corals digest some of their> zooxanthellae.> > As Rob
> pointed out, the first paper on this was by Boschma back in 1925.> He> >
> also did cool experiments showing how he could infect aposymbiotic
> corals> > with zooxanthellae by feeding them bits of zooxanthellate
> coral tissue> > mixed up with crab meat. He did a lot of his research
> with the cold water> > coral Astrangia danae (now poculata). I used to
> spend hours and hours> > reading the literature to catch up with what
> had been learned over the> > decades, even centuries, before I came
> along. Apparently that doesn't> > happen anymore: everyone is too busy
> reinventing the wheel. I was at the> > Bremen ISRS and did come away
> with the impression that oh
> so many young> and> > intelligent researchers are underprepared for
> tackling major research> > topics because of lack of knowledge with
> which to reason with.> >> >> >
> *************************************************************************>
>  > Dr. Alina M. Szmant, CEO> > CISME Instruments LLC> > 210 Braxlo Lane,>
> > Wilmington NC 28409 USA> > AAUS Scientific Diving Lifetime Achievement
> Awardee> > cell: 910-200-3913> > EMAIL: alina at cisme-instruments.com
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