[Coral-List] Carmabi annual report - Manicina areolata distribution

vassil zlatarski vzlatarski at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 11 01:56:23 EDT 2013

Dear Erik, 

Your reaction is amazing and I appeal to respect this forum.  The Editor in Chief recognized your mistake.  Your published text may cause not only some confusion.  It is not misleading, it is unquestionably wrong.  Please note that even your
 published words "None of these species has been reported from such a deep habitat" are quoted in your following email in different wording.  After your erroneous declaration you published "M[anicina]. areolata has been described in shallow sandy areas in Curacao by Roos (1971)", followed by the distribution of
 the species outside Curacao: "It was reported in seagrass beds and on sandy and rubble areas on the reef down to 20 m in Jamaica (Goreau and Goreau 1960) and in seagrass flats and mangrove-associated communities in the San Blas Archipelago, northern Panama (Johnson 1992)."  This is all you give for the distribution of M. areolata and there is nothing to support your opening statement of the email below.  Neither your References offer anything more.  By the way, by reporting only two species it is not correct  to pretend "this is the first documented multi-species assemblage ..."

I do not doubt that you know well the masterpiece illustrated book of Humann and do not understand why you ignore it.

So much about
 English used for your

I share your doubt that French is 'largely used' today but let me go back half a century.  As a student I expressed desire to study fossils and my professor asked me about usage of foreign language because my native Bulgarian was not enough for the paleontological literature.  My answer "German" determined to work with extinct corals.  Soon became clear that the most advanced coral investigations are realized by the Paris coral school and I had quickly to begin using French.  The book was written when French methodology and terminology were leading.  It turned out that Russian was also necessary.  Later, working in Caribbean I enjoyed Spanish and finally, when the age did not favor new languages I had to struggle with English.  So, many times necessity to obtain coral information and experience determined which language to be used.  Originally, the scientific publications were in Latin. Many
 classical natural history publications with the original descriptions of new species were in French, German and other languages. Paleontologists always need foreign languages.  No need to mention that during our study of extant corals we have to learn and know about their fossil antecedents.  But let me return to the mentioned by you book in French - you do not need French for your purpose because the maps, figures, plates and the Latin species name are more than enough.


Vassil Zlatarski

PS  I expressed my gratitude for your papers and requested additional PDFs in my email from May 1, however, did not receive any answer or paper.

131 Fales Rd., Bristol, RI 02809, USA;  tel.: +1-401-254-5121

 From: "Meesters, Erik" <erik.meesters at wur.nl>
To: "coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov" <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> 
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Coral-List] Carmabi annual report - Manicina areolata distribution

Dear Vassil, 

Manicina areolata is well known to occur in deep localities, but, as the title mentions, BOTH Caribbean free-living species CO-OCCURING in such a deep habitat was unknown. For Meandrina danae it was not known at all to occur at such depths. The sentence 'None of these species were known to occur in such deep habitat.' is referring to Curacao, and may have caused some confusion. I'd love to get your publication, but I doubt that French is 'largely used' in the scientific coral reef community.
Best, Erik
Ps. I hope you enjoyed all the papers that I've send you at your request.
Ps 2. I believe that Mark was the editor for the reef site :)

-------- Message original -------- 
[Coral-List] Carmabi annual report - Manicina areolata distribution
Date : 
Fri, 7 Jun 2013 04:19:36
 -0700 (PDT)
De : 
vassil zlatarski <vzlatarski at yahoo.com>
Répondre à : 
vassil zlatarski <vzlatarski at yahoo.com>
Pour : 
Coral -List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>

Thanks, Mark, for offering access to Carmabi Annual Report and publications...  May I pay attention to one published statement.  Meesters, E. H., B.. Mueller & M. M. Nugues (*) reported presence of Manicina areolata in depth of 30-50 m and declared that this species has not been reported from such a deep habitat.  This does not correspond to what is well known,
 because three decades ago it was published living in more than two dozens deep localities (**) and
 in a largely used recent book (***) for this species is given "Depth: 2 - 200 ft."  I am sure some colleagues will have in mind also other examples. One wonders how was presented such manuscript for publishing in Coral Reefs.  I tried but did not receive answer from the Editor in Chief about who communicated the mentioned Reef site.

(*) Meesters, E. H., B. Mueller, M. M. Nugues. 2012. Caribbean free-living coral species co-occurring deep off
the windward coast of Curacao. Coral Reefs, DOI
10.1007/s00338-012-0960-6 or Coral Reefs (2013) 32: 109. 
(**)Zlatarski, V. N., MartinezEstalella. 1982. Les Scléractiniares de
Cuba avec des données sur la organismes associés. Edit. Académie bulgare des Sciences, Sofia, 472
p., annexe 1.          
(***) Humann, P.., N. Deloach. 2006. Reef coral identification: Florida, Caribbean, Bahamas..  New World Publications, 287



Vassil Zlatarski
D.Sc. (Biology), Ph.D. (Geology)

131 Fales Rd., Bristol, RI 02809, USA;  tel.: +1-401-254-5121

From: Mark Vermeij <carmabilog at gmail.com>
To: coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov 
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 5:02 PM
Subject: [Coral-List] Carmabi annual report and new labs opened

Dear all

For those of you that are curious to know more about Carmabi and how the
station could be helpful to you, it is my pleasure to direct you to our
Carmabi Annual  Report 2012. You will find a fairly comprehensive overview
of activities and projects that were done in 2012.
 You can  take a look at
the annual report by clicking on
 the following link:


You'll find a link to the annual report under "publications" on the black
main navigation bar.

I would also like to invite you to have a look at the new lab that was
recently  completed. These new facilities will be available to the research
community. An impression of the new facilities and work progress can be
found by clicking on the link http://www.researchstationcarmabi.org/new-lab

Please contact me (at carmabilog at gmail.com) if you require more details
or have any questions.

Tropical regards


Dr. M.J.A. Vermeij
Science Director Carmabi Foundation
Piscaderabaai z/n
Web: http://www.researchstationcarmabi.org/

Assistant professor
Institute for Biodiversity and Ecosystem Dynamics (IBED)
University of Amsterdam
Science Park 700
1098 XH Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Web: http://www.science.uva.nl/ibed/home.cfm

Phone: +5999-5103067
Email: m.vermeij at carmabi.org
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