[Coral-List] The Guardian: Largest known deep-sea coral reef mapped off U.S. Atlantic coast
Austin Bowden-Kerby
abowdenkerby at gmail.com
Thu Jan 25 19:27:52 UTC 2024
Thanks for this addition to the discussion Mike,
" We managed to get a climate record from deep-water corals from off the
coast of Newfoundland, which is relevant to-day. We found that during the
onset of the Younger Dryas, the turnaround from full-on deglaciation to a
widespread cooling took less than 4 years. This was driven by a meltwater
event that basically shut down/diverted the Gulf Stream. (Smith et al,
1997, Nature v 386)." Another study also details this record of AMOC
collapse: Douarin, M., M. Elliot, S. R. Noble, S. G. Moreton, D. Long, D.
Sinclair, L.-A. Henry, and J. M. Roberts (2016), North Atlantic ecosystem
sensitivity to Holocene shifts in Meridional Overturning Circulation, *Geophys.
Res. Lett.*, 43, 291–298. https://blogs.agu.org/geospace/2016/01/13/12833/
I find this of extreme interest- that these deep water corals record ocean
overturning circulation collapse which happened 12K years ago, and that it
was so rapid. The rapid melting event lowered the salinity of Arctic
waters which in turn prevented the formation and downwelling of hypersaline
super-cold deep bottom water. There was quite a stir created last July due
to the publication of a new modelling study which indicated a 95%
confidence interval that the AMOC collapse would happen by 2095: Ditlevsen,
P., Ditlevsen, S. Warning of a forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic
meridional overturning circulation. *Nat Commun* 14, 4254 (2023).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-39810-w
My question is did this refreeze of the Arctic about 13K years ago save the
planet from a hot-house climate and an associated increase in sea level
of >100M which would have happened if a massive release of methane from
melting tundra had happened? Isn't this which what we are potentially
facing now? Is this part of a normal planetary feedback system which kicks
in? And might the 15% reduction in AMOC detected in 2018 be
strengthening? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0006-5
Evidence: NOAA data indicates that sea surface temperature increased at an
average rate of 0.14°F per decade from 1901 through 2020. However in 2023,
there was a sudden and unexplained jump of about 0.7C, (>5 standard
deviations above the mean), which puts us at 1.54C above the pre-industrial
mean. https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/ The earlier
hypotheses blaming the Tonga eruption, or sulfur dioxide emission
reductions from the banning of high-sulfur fuel in shipping, both of which
have been debunked, leaving me wondering if early AMOC shut down could be
the explanation?
According to the models, AMOC collapse would warm the southern hemisphere
while it cools the northern hemisphere, and vast changes in ocean currents
would result in sudden sea level changes. How might this impact the
planet's coral reefs? If anyone doubts that we are already over the
tipping point, please go to the University of Boston Climate Reanalyzer
site, which has multiple data sets updated daily.
https://climatereanalyzer.org/ The massive and unexplained ocean heating
started in March 2023, and only several months later spread to the
atmosphere.
I frankly never thought I would live to see this day, and am rather
surprised that so few in the scientific community are aware of what is
unfolding before us.
Regards,
Austin
Austin Bowden-Kerby, PhD
Corals for Conservation, Fiji
https://www.corals4conservation.org
Publication on C4C's coral-focused climate change adaptation strategies:
https://www.mdpi.com/2673-1924/4/1/2/pdf
Film on our "Reefs of Hope" coral restoration for climate change adaptation
strategies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0lqKciXAA
https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/emergency-response-to-massive-coral-bleaching/
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On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:08 AM Risk, Michael via Coral-List <
coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
> Good day, all.
>
> I was going to let this slide without comment, because, after all, do
> we need yet another demonstration that people don't read the older
> literature if that might obscure the brilliance of their latest
> discovery? But I thought some perspective might be appropriate.
>
> We have, of course, known about deep-water corals for a very long time.
> People have been dredging up Lophelia forever. There seems not to have
> been a great deal of interest in them until the mid-1990's. We managed
> to get a climate record from deep-water corals from off the coast of
> Newfoundland, which is relevant to-day. We found that during the onset
> of the Younger Dryas, the turnaround from full-on deglaciation to a
> widespread cooling took less than 4 years. This was driven by a
> meltwater event that basically shut down/diverted the Gulf Stream.
> (Smith et al, 1997, Nature v 386).
>
> It is worth mentioning that the corals we worked on were part of a much
> larger haul, dredged up by the geophysicists. The corals languished in
> storage for years at the Bedford Institute until some bright spark
> said, Chuck 'em out. Several bucketloads were trashed, until someone
> working in Dale Buckley's lab contacted me.
>
> Word leaked out about our results even before the Nature paper, and we
> were invited to a workshop at Lamont. That certainly got things
> buzzing, with Wally Broeker calling deep corals "the New Climate
> Archive."
>
> We were then invited to attend a NOAA-sponsored workshop in Ireland, on
> the use of corals in climate work.
>
> In short (wrap this up, Mike!): No, that discovery wasn't especially
> momentous, and it would be sporting to accept that much of the interest
> in deep-water corals emanates from work done by your neighbours to the
> north.
>
> Mike
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Coral-List <coral-list-bounces at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> on behalf of
> William Precht via Coral-List <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2024 8:18 PM
> To: Dennis Hubbard <dennis.hubbard at oberlin.edu>
> Cc: Coral-List Subscribers <coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov>
> Subject: Re: [Coral-List] The Guardian: Largest known deep-sea coral
> reef mapped off U.S. Atlantic coast
>
> Caution: External email.
> Hi Denny
> I found your note interesting. And I believe it wasn't a meeting in
> Bermuda but the SEPM Quaternary Reef Workshop I ran in the mid- 2000s
> where both you and Conrad gave talks.
> Reading this article and manuscript was an insult to the memory of both
> Conrad Neumann and Chuck Messing and all that they did throughout their
> careers on these Lophelia ecosystems. Conrad Neumann gave a talk in a
> session I led and actually predicted this discovery. In fact, both he
> and
> Chuck Messing would say "each time we survey a new area we find more
> and
> more deep-water coral habitat". Back in the mid 2000s they had already
> identified an area of deep-water lithoherms that stretched further than
> the
> entire length of the Florida Reef Tract.
> Now with new and better deep-water remote sensing technology and
> hundreds
> of additional submersible and ROV dives they've extended it up to South
> Carolina - while it is a very significant discovery made by a team of
> dedicated scientists - the article and media release by NOAA just drips
> with hyperbole and self adulation.
> While they reference a chapter Chuck Messing wrote for the book " Coral
> Reefs of the USA" I found the background scholarship poor.
> I wonder what John Reed thinks about this "new discovery" as he too was
> one
> of the early pioneers on these deep-water Lophelia corals.
> Nice job, they just forgot on whose shoulders they were standing.
> Bill
> Btw - Here are a few references on the topic
> Biozonation of deep-water lithoherms and associated hardgrounds in the
> northeastern Straits of Florida
> <[1]https://www.jstor.org/stable/3514994>
> CG *Messing*, AC *Neumann*, JC Lang - Palaios, 1990 - JSTOR
> ... We recognize three faunal zones on these mounds: a *Coral* Zone
> (Lophelia
> prolifera) restricted to the upcurrent end; a Zoanthid Zone (?Gerardia
> *Deep*-*water coral reefs *of the *United States*
> <[2]https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4020-6847-8_21>
> CG *Messing*, JK Reed
> <[3]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> >, SD
> Brooke, SW Ross
> <[4]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tLmofCkAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> > - *Coral
> Reefs *of the *USA*, 2008 - Springer
> ... pertusa lithoherms and mounds reported by *Neumann*et al. (1977),
> ...
> patches of *deep**sea* *corals* are often smaller than at other sites.
> The
> bottom is
> Habitat characterization, distribution, and areal extent of *deep*-*sea
> coral *ecosystems off Florida, southeastern *USA*
> <[5]https://bioone.org/journals/caribbean-journal-of-science/volume-47/
> issue-1/cjos.v47i1.a3/Habitat-Characterization-Distribution-and-Areal-E
> xtent-of-Deep-sea-Coral/10.18475/cjos.v47i1.a3.short>
> JK Reed
> <[6]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> >, C
> *Messing*, BK Walker
> <[7]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=APjq4OQAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> >, S
> Brooke... - Caribbean Journal of ..., 2013 - BioOne
> ... dated mud mounds but are also capped with *coral*habitat (*Neumann*
> et
> al. 1977). The ... revealing coverage with the densest growth of
> *Lophelia*
> *coral* thickets that we have found in
> Comparison of *deep*-*water coral reefs *and lithoherms off
> southeastern
> *USA* <[8]https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1016593018389>
> JK Reed
> <[9]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> > -
> Hydrobiologia, 2002 - Springer
> ... *deep*-*water* *Lophelia* *reefs* off the southeastern
> *United**States*...
> of *coral*, mollusks, crinoids, echinoids, and sponges (*Neumann* ...
> that
> *deep**water* *coral* *reefs* are accumulations of *coral* debris
> Habitat and fauna of *deep*-*water Lophelia *pertusa *coral reefs *off
> the
> southeastern *US*: Blake Plateau, Straits of Florida, and Gulf of
> Mexico
> <[10]https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/umrsmas/bullmar/2006/000000
> 78/00000002/art00009>
> JK Reed
> <[11]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sr
> a>, DC
> Weaver, SA Pomponi
> <[12]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bL3lR1QAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sr
> a> -
> Bulletin of Marine Science, 2006 - ingentaconnect.com
> ... ,b), whereas lithoherms are high-relief, lithified carbonate
> mounds,
> rather than unconsolidated sediment mounds, and also may be covered
> with
> thickets of live *coral* (*Neumann* et al
> Regionalization of benthic hard-bottom communities across the Pourtales
> Terrace, Florida
> <[13]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096706372100053
> 4>
> BK Walker
> <[14]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=APjq4OQAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sr
> a>, C
> *Messing*, J Ash, S Brooke... - *Deep Sea *Research ..., 2021 -
> Elsevier
> ... of this habitat in the continental *US*). These corresponded to ...
> The
> geographic extent of *deep*-*water**reefs* in this region is ... The
> *Lophelia* Mound Community reported in this study lies on
> Lithoherms on the Florida-Hatteras slope
> <[15]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002532270000003
> 7>
> CK Paull
> <[16]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Htff9QQAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sr
> a>, AC
> *Neumann*, BA Am Ende, W Ussler Iii
> <[17]https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=uJ9nYoYAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sr
> a>... -
> Marine Geology, 2000 - Elsevier
> ... Thickets of living ahermatypic *coral* coat the crest and up-stream
> flanks of these topographic features. Living deep-water *coral* have
> modern
> 14 C ages (700+-80 year bp) and trap older
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 7:19PM Dennis Hubbard via Coral-List <
> coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
> > Hi Vassil:
> >
> > Thanks. If my old memory serves me right, Conrad Neumann described
> deep=ses
> > reefs off the coast of Florida based on several submersible dives.
> I'm not
> > sure I could find the reference as I've been out of the game for so
> long,
> > However, I fondly remember a meeting on Bermuda where someone
> referred to
> > what sound like these reefs and Conrad, who was sitting next to me,
> leaned
> > over an murmured , "did that in 1977'. If I'm right, this is yet
> another
> > predictable of the unfortunate stresses for researchers (especially
> younger
> > ones) to report only the most recent references in prestigious
> journals
> > like Nature and Science. More than once, in one of my snarkier moods,
> I'd
> > commented that I was just waiting for some young grad student stating
> that
> > s/he discovered evolution because that were unaware od Dsrwin's work.
> i
> > understand that there are mechanisms to create ancillary references
> that
> > will be listed outside the main reference list, but I am pessimistic
> about
> > everyone tsking the time amd effort to go there.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Denny
> >
> > Denny
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Denny
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 10:59AM Vassil Zlatarski via Coral-List <
> > coral-list at coral.aoml.noaa.gov> wrote:
> >
> > > [18]https://apple.news/ATXWpDb8AQwqdNlDnrQU3eQ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Coral-List mailing list
> > > Coral-List at coral.aoml.noaa.gov
> > > [19]https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dennis Hubbard - Emeritus Professor: Dept of Geology-Oberlin College
> > Oberlin OH 44074
> > (440) 935-4014
> >
> > * "When you get on the wrong train.... every stop is the wrong stop"*
> > Benjamin Stein: "*Ludes, A Ballad of the Drug and the Dream*"
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> References
>
> 1. https://www.jstor.org/stable/3514994
> 2. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4020-6847-8_21
> 3. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 4. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tLmofCkAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 5.
> https://bioone.org/journals/caribbean-journal-of-science/volume-47/issue-1/cjos.v47i1.a3/Habitat-Characterization-Distribution-and-Areal-Extent-of-Deep-sea-Coral/10.18475/cjos.v47i1.a3.short
> 6. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 7. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=APjq4OQAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 8. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1016593018389
> 9. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 10.
> https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/umrsmas/bullmar/2006/00000078/00000002/art00009
> 11. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bUgOIZsAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 12. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=bL3lR1QAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 13. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967063721000534
> 14. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=APjq4OQAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 15. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322700000037
> 16. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Htff9QQAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 17. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=uJ9nYoYAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
> 18. https://apple.news/ATXWpDb8AQwqdNlDnrQU3eQ
> 19. https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> 20. https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
> 21. https://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/mailman/listinfo/coral-list
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